No worries, the "inspired characters" part is enough of an answer, it makes alle the sense for me
Jnx
Active Member
- Jun 6, 2017
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It's gotten to the point where at least once a week I have people try to gotcha me in defense of a game that has obvious flaws. When I'm one of the only people actually reading the writing in these games with paragraph upon paragraph worth of reviews on a lot of games here.Great post, couldn't have said it better!
And as a counterpoint you get...
The peak of eloquence...
But no, this pseudo intellectual has been offended by my reductive statement about factually correct issues that the writing in the game has.
My bad for not going up to bat when half my comments on this site get deleted because people get their feelings hurt because I thought critically about a porn game.
You guys sure got me.
ImSenjou
Active Member
- Apr 15, 2019
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You guys should discuss theories, I'm curious about that, I've rethought my theories several times, and that's why I liked this game so much.
I even have other games to try, but I'm ignoring them, meanwhile I've already replayed this one eight times in 24 hours, and now I'm going for the ninth time.
I'm serious, I'd really like to read some theories here.
I even have other games to try, but I'm ignoring them, meanwhile I've already replayed this one eight times in 24 hours, and now I'm going for the ninth time.
I'm serious, I'd really like to read some theories here.
Quetzzz
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- Sep 29, 2023
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In my opinion, critique has to take the developer's intent into account. If you, as the reviewer, interpret a scene differently than the developer intended, then it's up to you to motivate your reasoning and explain where the developer went wrong.
About Dora, I think it's made abundantly clear to players that she has an agenda. Her look after the MC refuses to go with her betrays an emotion that is probably more complex than his rejection. After all, no matter how many times you rejected her that day, she'll always give the same look. I think it's reasonable to assume that her emotions have more to do with her plan not working out than the rejection itself.
Mio saying she has a good feeling about the MC is no different from Calli saying a similar thing. Some people exude kindness or trustworthiness. This is something that, I think, the dev established through interactions with different characters. He's soft-spoken and has a disarming personality.
Olivia: Others have said it... The 2nd episode has just been released. I'm sure the MC will be interested in how she found him once he realizes that Olivia is one of the people he saved. I think this feedback would be more fair if we were further along and this never came up again.
Gemma: Personally, the LI I have the least disbelief for. They've been working together for years. That said, I think it should've been established how long Gemma has been flirting with the MC. It looks like it's a recent development, but that would make her extremely forward. So I'm assuming she's been at it for a while.
Sylvie: Yeah, I had the same frustration. I then spoke with the dev to check in, and now I think she's behaving perfectly in character. We just haven't seen enough sides of her to understand her yet.
This game goes a bit against the grain by letting characters' actions speak for themselves and allowing actions to speak louder than words. My biggest frustration with AVNs is how devs often neglect to show instead of tell, and that's something this game does extremely well.
That said, I do think some more telegraphing or internal thoughts are necessary to convey the MC's experience and intent (context) to players. Subtext is great but also very dependent on a player's own experiences/baggage or even mastery of the language. A story needs to occasionally reset the subtext so it doesn't build up too much. If players are on the wrong foot, this alienates them. A reset, with (for instance) the MC saying why he's performing a certain action, brings everyone back on track.
An example of this is Theresa. The MC goes along with her, knowing she's stringing him along. We're not told why, so we're left to guess if he's just careless or maybe even too confident about getting into a potentially dangerous situation. Or perhaps we think that he's infatuated with Theresa and just going along to hopefully get his dick wet. His behavior there isn't what we'd expect from a skilled vigilante. Guys like that don't go into a situation blindly, at least if they want to live.
Luckily, at the club, the MC does speak up and confront her about what they're doing there. Otherwise, after events unfold, we'd collectively facepalm and ask how he didn't see it coming.
Look, I'm not saying you should write an essay in every comment but, come on... it's a bit hard to take your criticism seriously when you respond like that, at least for me.
Also, allow me to disagree - I'm playing the game right now and I have completely different feelings about the chacters. What you call "factually correct issues" with the game's writing feel more like your subjective thoughts. Which, obviously, you are entitled to but that doesn't make them fact.
dexterousgecko
Member
- Dec 7, 2019
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I'll write some more thoughts later, but to the Dev:
Getting tangled in internet arguments will only lead to more frustration. The people that are complaining have already made up their mind and are here sharing their opinion. Debating with them at best will make them eventually get bored and leave, at worst, it creates a more toxic environment for the entire thread, which isn't ideal.
You have your idea, and your plan. Trust it. When we've seen completely opposite arguments such as
A: I want more sex, why is there only 1.5 sex scenes in this game??
B: Wow, way too much nudity, I want a slow burn drama.
it should be clear that there's no point arguing with either side, especially since you have an overwhelmingly positive reception to what you're doing now. Sure, let people say they're not happy, that's cool, but I wouldn't engage with them here.
Just my opinion of course.
Getting tangled in internet arguments will only lead to more frustration. The people that are complaining have already made up their mind and are here sharing their opinion. Debating with them at best will make them eventually get bored and leave, at worst, it creates a more toxic environment for the entire thread, which isn't ideal.
You have your idea, and your plan. Trust it. When we've seen completely opposite arguments such as
A: I want more sex, why is there only 1.5 sex scenes in this game??
B: Wow, way too much nudity, I want a slow burn drama.
it should be clear that there's no point arguing with either side, especially since you have an overwhelmingly positive reception to what you're doing now. Sure, let people say they're not happy, that's cool, but I wouldn't engage with them here.
Just my opinion of course.
Old Man Al
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- Jan 18, 2022
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It is a bit to much on the nose for my taste - so I kinda hope it is just a false flag/red herring. But then... it is an adult novel with sex, nothing going for the publitzer prize so in the end it doesn't really matter - that much, imo of course.
Quetzzz
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I don't disagree, but fostering a bubble of yes-men isn't good either. It's up to the dev which critique he accepts or rejects. Sometimes even the harshest critic can have a point.
It's only on the nose for us, the reader. We have an omniscient and, albeit limited, window into what's happening. From the MC's perspective, she's just a girl waiting on a bus.
dexterousgecko
Member
- Dec 7, 2019
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True! But arguing with them on the forum thread is very unlikely to be productive. Take the criticism into consideration, but arguing? Will never end up well. One side can simply abandon the thread, the other side is reliant on trying to get more people to play the game.
Old Man Al
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Not really. She clearly tells the MC
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Quetzzz
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If I find a $100 bill and the next day meet someone who says they lost money and their boss is angry at them, I wouldn't automatically think I had found their $100 bill.
You're looking at this from the player's perspective, not the MC's. We know that Dora is there by the developer's design. For the MC, she's just another pretty face among thousands in that city. Maybe he should be more paranoid, but he isn't.
Rayne
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- Aug 2, 2017
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That's a good example, and it also depends on the person. We tend to think differently in such situations. A very suspicious or insecure person will always look for a catch in everything, sometimes even to the point of paranoia. A more confident person might not pay attention to it or might suspect something, but wouldn't show it. All people act and behave differently in different situations.
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I disagree that dev should just be passive and only read criticism but not address it on the forum. During these discussions it's much easier to notice some things and introspect. If someone presents an argument and then dev replies with counter-argument but then someone presents an even more compelling argument this can lead to a better game. So unless someone will just repeat the same thing again and again this can only be good. Plus we get to read some trivia and dev's reasoning which is interesting in itself.
So far the only complaint I agree on is the free-roam section which is a waste of time (although nothing egregious). Women falling for Kelly too easily I disagree with. Previous update was a bit slow for my taste but I still put this game on my watch list due to its quality. Usually at best I put such games on-hold because when I'm playing a porn game I expect some porn. IMO dev has found good balance between realism and porn-logic and while I get that some would prefer even slower action I'm pretty sure that in the end it would only hurt the game.
After all, if someone wants to play the game for the plot they play Betrayal at Krondor, Planescape: Torment, Age of Decadence, NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer, Geneforge, Banner Saga or Arcanum and not Visual Novels (doesn't matter whether they have porn or not, VNs are low quality in comparison).
So far the only complaint I agree on is the free-roam section which is a waste of time (although nothing egregious). Women falling for Kelly too easily I disagree with. Previous update was a bit slow for my taste but I still put this game on my watch list due to its quality. Usually at best I put such games on-hold because when I'm playing a porn game I expect some porn. IMO dev has found good balance between realism and porn-logic and while I get that some would prefer even slower action I'm pretty sure that in the end it would only hurt the game.
After all, if someone wants to play the game for the plot they play Betrayal at Krondor, Planescape: Torment, Age of Decadence, NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer, Geneforge, Banner Saga or Arcanum and not Visual Novels (doesn't matter whether they have porn or not, VNs are low quality in comparison).
i must admit i lost my cool a bit there. not my proudest moment.
i have no issues with a back and forth when the player is missing some context or just straight up missed something.
but i shouldve chosen a different tone for my first comment. calling me defensive doesnt make sense though.
in retrospect i realize that its not even a real criticism and just personal taste. so framing it as an objective criticism is what rubbed me the wrong way.
what even is too fast or too slow? whats the perfect pacing? i dont think theres an answer to that.
free-roam is only get used in rare and very specific cases in the future and not to that scale anymore.
i was mainly experimenting and wanted to see how its done. i can still see its usefulness though.
Vidal the king of Pervert
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in my opinion the best visual novels are just really good stories that just happened to have sex in them
obviously I'm not against sex but I like it when it's make sense and it's used to enhance the feelings and relationship
and not just because it's a porn game so it has to be in there
this is just me but as a person who plays visual novels to leave my wheelchair and have the Romantic life I always wanted
adult visual novels are more than just porn game to me
- Jun 25, 2018
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Vidal the king of Pervert
Well, I would say that Lost Solace fits this category, so far the only sex Kelly might have had was with Callie plus a BJ from Dora, for the rest there hasn't even been 1st base (not to mention 2nd base). The plot here is intriguing and characters are well written and with non-standard premise (so no MC living with his step-mother/step-sister or college drama but something else entirely).
BTW, my favourite characters so far are Raven, Mio, Sylvie and Gemma (a woman who not only risks her career but also freedom is a keeper if you ask me) but I don't dislike any of the characters and will definitely want to see all the content (which doesn't happen often).
Well, I would say that Lost Solace fits this category, so far the only sex Kelly might have had was with Callie plus a BJ from Dora, for the rest there hasn't even been 1st base (not to mention 2nd base). The plot here is intriguing and characters are well written and with non-standard premise (so no MC living with his step-mother/step-sister or college drama but something else entirely).
BTW, my favourite characters so far are Raven, Mio, Sylvie and Gemma (a woman who not only risks her career but also freedom is a keeper if you ask me) but I don't dislike any of the characters and will definitely want to see all the content (which doesn't happen often).
Vidal the king of Pervert
Forum Fanatic
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For me, my brother, my favorite girl is Sylvie I don't like girls that are too nice and lovey-dovey
I like them mean with a bit of edge to them
Sweet and innocent nice girls are not my type, I like them dangerous
- Jun 25, 2018
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You want theories?
Kelly is in fact a woman (hence the name) who was raped by the same organisation that kidnapped Olivia and co. Thanks to being a woman she's also untouchable, hence she doesn't hide her face too much or doesn't wipe the prints off, FBI will be looking for a woman after all. The planned "lesbian" tag will also make a lot of sense once this revelation is revealed.
Jokes aside, we've had some discussion about Dora and Gemma's boss (SAC) starting from here: https://f95zone.to/threads/lost-solace-ch-2-p1-v0-2a-sakurakage.263610/post-18981261
On a different note I've found this dialogue ('you're gay, aren't you?) great but a missed opportunity nonetheless:
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Meiri
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- Nov 1, 2019
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So far I am liking this game but I found a bit weird that telling Sylvie you are not interested in her seems to close her path, because in that scene she was basically treating us like a creep so it seems a bit weird that we are already making a choice that is closing a path.
I hope we get a choice sometime later to reopen the path because to me, it was hard to say yes at this point in the story, but I'd like a chance to get to know her later on.
I hope we get a choice sometime later to reopen the path because to me, it was hard to say yes at this point in the story, but I'd like a chance to get to know her later on.