- Thread starter veqvil
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- Jul 17, 2017
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The thing is i can tell you from personal expierence that there are moments, especially in the "beginning" of your breakdown, when the house of cards is falling, there are people who do not have the energy to tell anyone literally anything. And then the whole feeling guilty shit starts, which doesnt make it any better, trust me.
And im not here to defend that behaivor, even tho its because of mental health issues, it is still bad behaivor. And it is your right to critizise that behaivor, and im also sure that there are a lot out there who use that to abuse shit like patreon. Which definately adds to the anger when people realize work on a project stopped. Because giving people the benefit of the doubt only really works, if you can be as objective as possible. Which we all know, doesnt work on a personaly level as often as it should. And since you say yourself you heared/saw/witnessed cases where people abused it, if you see that often enough, the chances that you think "ah fuck it, just another one of those idiots" instead of "Mhm..poor guy, lets hope he can sort his shit out" skyrocket, and you cant really blame the people for doing so, since there is literally no way of proofing anything. And doubt is a strong emotion, once you have it, its super hard getting rid of it.
As for the thread ratings and threads in general, i agree and disagree at the same time. If we would only ever have Devs publishing their games here, we would ofc end up with A LOT less games. Sure its Publicity for the game if you put it up here, and the more people you reach, the higher the chance for customers i.e people who might end up paying you on patreon. Which is the basic concept of this Forum, period. Anyone who believes anything else, should leave their naive bubble already
. However since its not just Devs releasing games here, you sometimes create two parralel communities about one project. And even if the Dev itself releases it here, you do the same, but you are doing it yourself, which usualy increases your awarness of stuff. Now for the most part, the Dev runs his shit including patreon and the like.. maybe discord and whatnot. Everyone who is your patreon, automatically becomes a VIP for you. They support you openly by paying you money, you want to satisfy those first. And no matter how many people are here on this forum or any other for that matter, doent matter at all. Sure they vote on yourr threads which usually gives a rough indication whether or not a game is "good". But if you have 1000 Patreons who continuously pay you Money and are the people who make the whole thing happen. Even if there are 20000 people on a Forum who hate your game, as long as your patreons enjoy it and stick with you, you couldnt care less about that guy on the forum posting "SHIT GAME, SHIT DEV, BLA BLA". Just to bring everyone who runs around in this foum into perspective.
Most of the people here, are here because there are games for free, period. There are definatly people here who also support or have supported a Dev/Serveral Devs on Patreon, i wont deny that.
But most of us dont, and yet once a project goes south, everyone acts like as if they were a patreon of the project. They complain, badmouth, stirr shit up, and on top of that you have the forum trolls, who over the past few years have evolved into flat out assholes. The typical old forum troll who did shit for a laugh, is as rare as a unicorn these days.
So the summary is the following, you have people who come here to enjoy free content, acting as if they were something special, whenever a project goes south. And if you watch the threads on games that went south, you can see that the amount of people, who come back every Day/week/month to kick a dead horse, is immense. And i agree Man of the House is at the moment probably the best example for when a Project is executed well. And sure people praise the Dev whenever there is new content. But if i recall correctly, the first few endings on some of the characters were already implimented. Now im obviously not the Dev and therefore i have no idea how much of the road on this game is left. But starting to impliment endings usually is a sign that it wont continue for years to come. And mark my words here, the second this game finishes, or maybe not finishes because the Dev doesnt have a good new idea yet, but still has 1500 patreons paying him, and the content starts to get worse, because once serveral endings for characters are implimented, there is just so much you can do in that invoirment. People here will start to go ape shit, pointing fingers at his patreon, calling him a Thief and such. It might not happen, but i've seen similiar cases happen when it comes to things like this. And the shitstorm from people that were not even involved into it i.e not being patreons and stuff, every single time was so big that you thought that there was some raping someone on a daily basis in RL. But when you ask the people involved i.e the patreons, they will tell you that it was early annouced that the project would end, and that eveyone was told to end their payments, because everything beyond this point is just bonus. But those creating the riot didnt know that, but didnt stop them from the riot, in fact thats usually the reason for the Riot in the first place. Because people have a false feeling for sympathy, its like the white Girl making a 30 Minute youtube Video telling blacks how they should feel about some behaivor in society, bitch i didnt ask you for your opinion ^^
The best thing to do when a dev says there taking a break and don't say anything about pausing there Patreon is to go ahead and cancel your pledge. As this has happened too many times to count at this point. It's nothing personal to the dev but why should they be paid for not delivering a product. Most reputable devs I know would pause there Patreon. Yes I am a fan of Veq work but health does not excuse not doing right by your supporters
gamersglory That's a good idea, but the reason it happens is because people don't pay attention/remember/care/choose any or all of the above, or any of a number of other possibilities. Since almost all dev's have bill immediately on through patreon, I find it's easier to just unsubscribe a few minutes after subscribing. They get their money, I get my "rewards" AND don't have to remember to unsub should something happen. Occasionally I will come across a dev that doesn't have bill immediately on. Those are the ones that wind up getting more than one month worth of subscription out of me, since I wouldn't feel right getting the rewards for that month w/o giving them any money.
Come to think of it though, I haven't come across any devs in the last 6 months or so that are still doing it that way. It may be due to a downturn in my donating... but it's also possible that patreon removed that ability? Can anyone confirm that?
Come to think of it though, I haven't come across any devs in the last 6 months or so that are still doing it that way. It may be due to a downturn in my donating... but it's also possible that patreon removed that ability? Can anyone confirm that?
The reason most developers have turned on the bill immediately is that when you subscribe then unsub right after is patreon does not bill an unsub and it does not get billed at the first of the month like it should as you have unsubbed. In other words when people do it like that we see no money from that. unless we turn on bill immediately it will wait to charge active subs tell the first of the next month. So dipping like that is actually stealing as you have not paid anything. bill immediately is the only way we get most donations. Patreon has not designed it's billing system to handle a 30 day then rebill for next month system as it's cheaper for them to do one bulk charge at the start of the month.
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Yeah Smisenost i turned on the immediate as well because the sheer amount of people that would pledge grab everything without paying a dime then leave was insane. Let alone all the fraud accounts you would get hit with at the end of the month which I think actually costs us money??? Im not sure if we ate those costs or patreon. The pay up front solved all that.
Yep, fake or stolen cards will cause devs to be charged for what is called a Chargeback ware someone has disputed a charge with their bank and the bank charges back the amount of the charge plus a $20 to $50 chargeback fee. we have to eat those. Philly_Games I think Patreon does a horrible job of educating both Developers and Patreons on this subject and need to fix that
- Nov 12, 2017
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Wow thats an interesting fact i did not know about until now. Thanks for sharing that, i honestly never really thought about what happens when someones using Fake/stolen cards to pay for patreon. That actually the receiver of the Money has to pay for that, is a horrific thought. But sure, Patreon would have to pay a huge amount to a insurance company each month to cover that, so fo them its the simpler and easier way saying "Not our Problem"
- Sep 28, 2017
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But... Trapezio! How are little kids supposed to pay for their porn? Steal a card from their mother or father while they think their little angle is sleeping?
... I mean... Not that I ever did that. 25-30 years ago.
<history_lesson>
Or found out that a certain math formula governed how credit card numbers are generated and all you had to do was pick 7 numbers and stick them behind a 4(Visa), 5(Master Card), or 6(Discover) and the formula would spit out the missing 8 digits needed. You know, back before they started requiring postal codes and card verification values. (AmEx had two systems in place for card numbers and one of them I believe started with 3)
</history_lesson>
( I was like 12, it was just after we left Prodigy for the early days of AOL at the blazing fast speed of 14.4kbps and I legit thought CC's were magic money because it was usually called "Magic Plastic" around me. Yes, I've been properly reprimanded for my misdeeds, and actually understand how money works now... But, hopefully, now my reasoning behind my aversion to the autorenew/autorebill method of billing.)
Philly_Games So it sounds like the option is there, but most users have opted into bill immediately. I think that's probably for the best really.
... I mean... Not that I ever did that. 25-30 years ago.
<history_lesson>
Or found out that a certain math formula governed how credit card numbers are generated and all you had to do was pick 7 numbers and stick them behind a 4(Visa), 5(Master Card), or 6(Discover) and the formula would spit out the missing 8 digits needed. You know, back before they started requiring postal codes and card verification values. (AmEx had two systems in place for card numbers and one of them I believe started with 3)
</history_lesson>
( I was like 12, it was just after we left Prodigy for the early days of AOL at the blazing fast speed of 14.4kbps and I legit thought CC's were magic money because it was usually called "Magic Plastic" around me. Yes, I've been properly reprimanded for my misdeeds, and actually understand how money works now... But, hopefully, now my reasoning behind my aversion to the autorenew/autorebill method of billing.)
Philly_Games So it sounds like the option is there, but most users have opted into bill immediately. I think that's probably for the best really.
- Jul 23, 2018
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Pausing Patreon definitely would've been the moral choice on his part. Regardless...
...I don't want to be accusing anyone, but I've heard this "dev's ill" explanation one too many times now.
I'd like to believe devs speak the truth, but at this point it feels like adult game developers are a species going extinct, looking at the rate they keep dropping. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it's just a better PR than "I'll take a break for who knows how long".
Either way, it's a shame, really, it was one of the more interesting games out there.
Don't forget that Patreon changed the policy on putting Dev account on hold, you can do it for 1 month but then it automatically reverts to charging your patrons. So a lot of the time people DO the right thing, but then the website changes the status and then the Dev gets called shit names, blah blah blah....
The only way you can go on hold indefinitely anymore is to revert your creator account back to a non-creator account.
- Nov 12, 2017
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Unless there changes something Fundamentaly about developing games, that sets the barrier to start up with a game WAY higher than it currently is. You should take a look around before you make Statements like "it feels like they going extinct".
The amount of people who Study in the IT field is crazy, sure not all of them have the end goal of developing Adult games, but if you look at the market, ever since there is a flood of people able to do certain jobs. Companies more and more cherry pick, and on top of that, there is not an unlimited amount of jobs to be had in the first place. So the result is that you end up with tons of people with a basic know how, and without a job. Im not saying that this is the case for all Adult Game devs, or even for the majority. But whether you are adult game dev, by choice from the get go, or if you slided into that role and now live with it because it pays your bills. Dont be so naive to think that the supply on Devs is running low.
Also that Argument with PR, holy crap, if i am a dev who wants to abuse/exploit patreon to milk as much money out of it as possible, with the least effort. Why on earth would i give two fucks about whats better PR? Especialy given the fact that people like you, openly admit that they heared "im ill" one to many times. Then i'd rather say "I'll take a break foor who knows how long, but ill be back" that way i can keep on running my Patreon and even if thats thin ice, argue that i kept my Patreon running because my plan was to come back, and i have something special for my loyal fans.
Im not saying people dont exploit it, they sure do. But you also cant start a Sentence with "I don't want to be accusing anyone, but". And then follow this by a couple of lines accusing people of stuff...cmon man
- Jul 10, 2017
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There is a dev who got a game out and said so he was taking a break ... now, currently on break, still checks out posts around here, but has 0 supporters on P****on because ha was honest and said he stopped and also pledgers were honest and stopped throwing money at him while he was supposed to take a break.
There are devs who have abandoned their games on their 2nd or 4th iteration, did not cancel patreon but are enjoying posting vids on the tubes, making sfm instead of games, or simply left their p***on like this -> "this patreon is not supporting any developers at the moment"
Like it was said before, letting subs go on and trying to push some update out of a dev who has given up is not healthy for anybody -> dev has the stress of not performing but has no time because of IRL stuff, pledgers are angry for getting billed and not having any ping from that account ... everybody looses when they pretend or actually do not give a dime about their well being.
Happy Reminiscence!
P.S. -> should anybody still be on his discord, please try and lift him up cause IRL troubles are no joke if he cannot be bothered to give a smirk about anybody
There are devs who have abandoned their games on their 2nd or 4th iteration, did not cancel patreon but are enjoying posting vids on the tubes, making sfm instead of games, or simply left their p***on like this -> "this patreon is not supporting any developers at the moment"
Like it was said before, letting subs go on and trying to push some update out of a dev who has given up is not healthy for anybody -> dev has the stress of not performing but has no time because of IRL stuff, pledgers are angry for getting billed and not having any ping from that account ... everybody looses when they pretend or actually do not give a dime about their well being.
Happy Reminiscence!
P.S. -> should anybody still be on his discord, please try and lift him up cause IRL troubles are no joke if he cannot be bothered to give a smirk about anybody
How is this game still not tagged as abandoned? I'm sensing some moderator bias here.
- Jul 10, 2017
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Last proof of life was May 23rd:
30 Likes
See you in august with the jam ... and the liquor
veqvil
is creating Adult Games
384
PATRONS
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30 Likes
See you in august with the jam ... and the liquor
veqvil
is creating Adult Games
384
PATRONS
You can call it milking or overextending, it's your choice
.