Just to add to Deviants answer, one thing that both Lacey and Mia both admitted is that Lacey was suicidal during much of college and hurt herself. A common theme of Lacey is self sabotage/harm. For all we know, Lacey enjoyed the self harm in it all more than the sex itself. I'm not saying that is the case, but it is possible. I would say that Phase 3 Lacey is a Lacey that has given up on separating sex from her abuse, and she had just become addicted to hurting herself similar to someone who cuts themselves often
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Sorry, had to correct this as I feel it's important.
...in no way makes you do the shit she has done. Stop using her trauma as an excuse to be a garbage human capable of trying to kill her 'friend' not once...but twice.
AL.d
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But this implies, Lacey has that full understanding and that makes her account truthful over Mia's. I don't see any of that. In the monologue you posted I just see flimsy rationalizations and appeasement. In fact there is plenty of evidence that she doesn't fully understand her self, there are occasions in the story where she thinks something that amounts to "why the fuck did I do that?". You even mention something like that in this post.
It's definitely possible to derive pleasure and enjoyment from something that regular people would find gross and painful. In fact, we actually see her doing just that in some of her scenes with MC. But the fact is that it's impossible to think someone has reached numbers indicating extreme sex addiction, without deriving some sort of enjoyment from it. Even if it's some sick form of gratification from shame and self hate, which actually checks out for a covert narcissist. Common sense is what validates Mia's take. Yes, she doesn't understand the why. She probably couldn't, even if she tried (which she did not), because she is a dumbass. But she could see the gratification. MC saw it too and I don't think the game had him confirming it for no reason.
Why would I take the recount of the most unreliable person (towards MC) in the game as fact? She can tell him she hated all of those things. I don't have to believe it. Actually, purely from the fact she has a permanent motive to downplay everything that has happened back then, I should not believe it. This is why excerpts like the one you posted do nothing for me. I can post similar recounts of her college adventures that have been proven blatant lies. Like the "no one was seeing me as a gf" one, among others.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree again, because we have a fundamental difference on how we view Lacey's recounts of events. I see them as worthless in terms of getting a truthful account (unlike her actions that are always telling). You think they have some worth in terms of finding the truth. Our different takes always come back to that I think.
No, just no, sorry.
First of all how can you reconcile the concept that you can argue about her being a bad person or not and then come out with "She wanted Lacey for herself - as a toy".
All her action speak about cruelty.
Where is the emotional immaturity in derailing another person life so that a friend of yours could MAYBE get with you and be happy if his marriage ends?
This is plain manipulation and cruelty.
Where is the emotional immaturity when you bring drugs to a drug addict?
This is plain evil and inability to understand consequences. (she is safe, there aren't any in L&J)
Where is the emotional immaturity in looking at a friend almost killing herself with drugs and not do a fucking thing besides snapping pictures of her crying while her ass is being rammed?
This is pure neglect, selfishness and unadultered evil.
Where is the emotional immaturity when she laughs and cheers when her best friend has just suffered from SA?
This is pure evil, especially coming from someone with her past.
Lets stop here, I can go on for hours.
Mav says something quite important here:
This is a failed character, and I will say what I said before, if you see Mia as anything more than an abuser, please seek help, I say it from the heart and not to offend.
Seek help to learn abusive behaviour so you can recognize it and help yourself or someone you care about.
Lacey maybe discovered (according to the last 2 pics from Mia) the joy of sex in her phase 3…. She is absolutely selfish and needs everybody around her to serve her life model ideas, her demands and phantasies… she needs MC to be absolutely jealous and after acting as a whore still reclaiming her with all possible passion…. She wants to have it all ~ remember Jared act where she is saying that she thinks „she can have both“ her husband and a sex affair ‘based on a social justification‚ She would under the influence of K throw anybody without hesitation under the bus to reach her own goals *remember last tennis event where she clearly told MC that he has no say in this…. Lacey would be very happy having both sides of her desires easily available… we are not speaking about her love to MC, this construct maybe does not really exist… I don’t know….
Sayora
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firstly, not a friend
and secondly, she didn't try to kill anyone
and finally, I insist that she is a psychologically immature teenager
I'm not saying that her actions are good, but they are definitely not terrible.
(trying to give drugs to a friend is hard to justify, but possible)
Yes, but I say that you are very right in most if not all of your reasoning.
In fact I do not say: "believe the Lacey"
I say that even an half truth or a lie is more truthful than what the pimp can offer.
It is a different concept, I do not trust what Lacey says 100%, I trust only what I can somewhat reconcile with her actions, which I do not condone.
Even when you look at this line "no one was seeing me as a gf", we know of literally 3 people in over 300.
And we know that most if not all of the rest treated her as a cumrag, even the pimp says so.
See how easy it is to misinterpret things?
And I agree with MC when he chastizes her when she said she never had a BF, she hung out a lot with some of these guys and had sex with them, and I don't think that you need to go and say "hey we are bf and gf now" to recognize it as a relationship.
Look at it now through Lacey eyes, she separated sex from any sort of emotional attachment, and kept that line through all the junior year (we could discuss Isaac but we know what happened), and most of not all of the people she was with treated her like shit.
What would you say? Yeah no one was seeing me as a gf aside from 3 guys in over 300?
This is a matter of perception.
But then let me be clear, I keep on saying that Lacey is dishonest in her recounts, that there was much more fun than she lets on and that she then regretted it after the deed, and even then the toothbrush makes me thing that also this (which comes from the pimp recount) might not be 100% true.
Anyway lets stop here, don't trust both of them.
It is well known and understood that the part where she enjoyed sex the most was phase 2 and some of phase 1.
So I have some questions around the relapses
The Damian event - so she gets k and gets super drunk so that she can get through it all - but thinking back to the actual event and the follow up phone call she shows no signs of being intoxicated from what I can recall
The barty event - so she finds some k in an old shirt and from what I can remember she's taken it before barty arrives , I don't recall anything around barty making her take it - so why was her immediate first instinct to just take the k? Like there's no mention that she tried to contact someone for help or to talk her out of it , also why is this never asked like why aren't you seeking help if you happen to stumble across k or get offered it
Now the last one I can't really remember - was it the marketing party? Or was it she just found it in another old piece of clothing - again if she's found it in clothing why isn't she reaching out for help, now if it's the marketing party why did she need to take k for that? Seems odd
The Damian event - so she gets k and gets super drunk so that she can get through it all - but thinking back to the actual event and the follow up phone call she shows no signs of being intoxicated from what I can recall
The barty event - so she finds some k in an old shirt and from what I can remember she's taken it before barty arrives , I don't recall anything around barty making her take it - so why was her immediate first instinct to just take the k? Like there's no mention that she tried to contact someone for help or to talk her out of it , also why is this never asked like why aren't you seeking help if you happen to stumble across k or get offered it
Now the last one I can't really remember - was it the marketing party? Or was it she just found it in another old piece of clothing - again if she's found it in clothing why isn't she reaching out for help, now if it's the marketing party why did she need to take k for that? Seems odd
Lacey never suggests that she can have a sex affair with Jared. We don't hear what she is referencing when she says it, but Anna and Mia simply describe it as
"Maybe after a few months when you're in a better place YOU could maybe handle something like this. But even then, you're playing with fire and I don't approve at all"
...
"You're not strong enough to handle this"
I think that this just means that Lacey's plan is to "play nice" until she gets the promotion. Being flirty, dressing provocatively, etc. She wants Jared to THINK that he will be able to fuck her, not that she would actually allow it to happen.
K high is roughly 30 mins - 1h (maybe more, depends on how much you take), it is not disclosed how much alcohol she got in her, maybe enough to be tipsy/drunk but coherent.
I need to check how long it takes her to call her pimp, but it should be some hours? can't recall on the top of my head.
Eh this is a sad one.
It depends on the day, sometimes you could be strong enough to say no, another day you might not be.
Being an addict is shameful, even within drug users "circles", like you would joke about "the monkey on your shoulder" which is translated to: being in a bit of withdrawal and wanting to take something.
It is not an easy concept to explain, you find it, you want it, you think it is just a little pip and nobody will notice and tomorrow will be perfectly fine.
I don't know if I explained myself properly, so I will say this: it is difficult to say no
What do you mean marketing party? at the parties she only drank whiskey as far as we know, no K involved.
For me it’s not important when she discovered the joy of sex - she definitely did before being with MC, also it’s not important if she wants a sex affair or not, she was ready to „invest“ into that promotion issue everything that would have been needed, she started already being in the hot tub with Jared in a very revealing bikini letting him grope her…risking to chuck her husband maybe.. anyhow I am Pretty sure that she said „that she thinks that she can have both - her husband and some adventures to reach her selfish goals….
The Damian Event
Lacey does show signs that she doesn't remember it. Talking to Mia on the MC's phone, Lacey says
1.) "You sound annoyed, is everything okay?"
2.) "I really need to speak to my husband. It's pretty important. We have to talk about everything."
3.) "I'm... reconnected with my brain. Mostly."
4.) "What does he have to do with it?" (in reference to Damian. Sure, she could be lying to Mia, but I think she couldn't recall in that moment who she had sex with
The Barty Event
MC and her were going through the issues with Evan, Jared, Damian, etc (we don't know exactly when it happens in the timeline, but MC and Lacey were on the verge of divorce). She took it in a moment of weakness. My speculation is that the NTR Villains can see through the cameras, so my head cannon is that they saw her taking the Ketamine, or could tell she was high, and then sent Barty in. My guess is that their intention was to get her to actually fuck Barty, but she refused so they made the deep fake instead. However, that part is pure speculation on my part.
The Marketing Party
The other time she took it (which I think is the first out of the 3 times) was the morning where she was going to go play Tennis with Evan and Jared despite having a big argument over it the day before. In the dialogue, Lacey seems unable to think about anything other than the fact that she wants to play Tennis. When asked if she's ending their marriage, she responds with "I have no idea. I don't even know what that means."
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I think what might be important here and something that Mia keeps reitering (being ones true self) is perhaps this:
In a completely disassociated state (a little like being too tipsy)....is that actually the real, true slim succubus talking?
Right...pushing her into one last hurrah (after wanting to get clean) isn't trying to kill her? Taking drugs to a drug addict so she can have the MC to herself..is not trying to kill her? Wow...just fucking wow...
100% agree.
I'm still doing my Barty timeline. It's still not mathing. I said in aprevious post that got lost that:
He came around 5 times without the MC being there. Let me list:
1. Stopped by, was sad, had sandwiches.
2. ?
3. ?
4. Drunk....wanted to fuck her, told he found videos.
5. Sober, apologised, pressured succubus not to tell MC.
---
6. Came around while MC was there to apologise
7. Drunk, spouting the shit about about blowjobs to the MC
On all routes, succubus says:
MC "And you said there was a third?"
L "Yes."
L "I'm deeply embarrassed to say that I don't remember it very well."
L "I was home alone and found a small stash in an old sweatshirt pocket."
L "I hadn't worn that sweatshirt since I was in school."
L "I found it and... made the wrong choice."
L "At least that time I didn't do anything stupid."
Only in the No Fun route, do we get:
L "Alright let's see if it's really empty."
L "..."
L "Yep, nothing in here... oh shit."
L "Except for my old red hoodie that would break [MCFirst]'s heart to see."
L "Straight into the trash with that stupid thing."
L "Excellent, perfectly good suitcase now."
The more....I think about this...3 times on Ket. Bastion, MC walked and then the next morning she was on floor, practical joke shit....and one other time she 'found some in old sweatshirt - nothing happened'.
Can't recall who I was discussing this with...but for me, I think there may have been a 4th time. She either forgot completely....or she was spiked. I'll ask again (from my quote)...how did they know she snorted K?
They just happened to get lucky watching the cameras the night she snorted as she just happened to find an old shirt that had K in it...and she also just happened to decide to take it?? Just happened to have all the camera gear ready to go 'just in case'? That's a hell of a lot of coincidences! No, that's premaditated. How can you premaditate something you don't know when will happen, and if does, don't know if you will be around to take advantage of it?
Was she intenionally spiked on on of the '5' visits from Barty? If he/they knew about her addiction....it would have been very, very easy. However, I come back again to....if that was the case, then why not just fuck her for real, right there and then?
AL.d
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We don't know exactly what she is describing to them but we do know it is something that a married woman shouldn't be doing. Otherwise they wouldn't be thinking she will crash and burn and destroy her marriage.
And her describing some sort of affair, is definitely not out of the question, if you think who was the one who told her it's too early and maybe she could attempt in the future. Unless I'm mistaken, it was Anna. The very same person who was supportive of her cuck training plan.
This last line is why the whole video thing is either tacked on and full of plot holes or there is far more to it than just a silly fake.
Think about it. This girl is notorious for turning into an out of control slut while baked. The ntr villains know that. So they send their stooge in, while she is baked and all he does is....an interview? Did ntr villain HR call them and told them anything more would be an issue? Doesn't make sense.
I'm leaning towards the first. Dev clearly crammed all the tension and drama in act 1 because of the self imposed ntr rule. Then ran out of options in act 2 and had to pull something out of nowhere.
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Even if it is shown as always happening, maybe because Lacey snorts like a few grams of K every time, it is very possible to lose the memory of what is happening (or most of it anyway) during a K high.
We need to take this as a sort of fact in the story because it seems to be brought as a genuine effect.
No comment to the rest of your post as it is spot on.
There's no evidence that she would do "everything that would have been needed". The one time Jared tries to push her, she tells him to stop. Then Lacey claims that she hits him when he tries again. The pool we don't get to see her reaction, as the videos show that his hand was on her knee. He only moved it to her thigh when the MC showed up.
It's possible you are right, but you are talking about these "what ifs" as if they are definitely true, and they just aren't
I think ya wrong there, she did say what you said, but it was ment on having her hubby and that promotion to a better job. What lacked in her thinking was, Veronica did offer her a better job, but she didn't listen, probably Jared said things to sound the job he offered was even better, her judgement was crap too as she just ate everything Jared fed her about the job and went along with what he wanted from her, the only thing she didn't went as far as just show some skin and dance with him and such, but sexual part she never gone for. Lacey just can't make correct decisions, judgements and so on due to her brain damage and often makes the wrong choices.
The only thing that surprise me most on Lacey, having a damaged brain on the part where decisions and judgements are made, how the hell can she function in a company at her job, as being creative and imagination for promotion campagnes, commercials and such for the company you need also make decisions and judgements as not everything is allowed or decent enough to promote your company.
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Diosvincenccio
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Okay before DF starts with the chainshaw.
We call her "the pimp" because she talks in ways that show her giving Lacey as favors. And we all wonder where the money for the K comes from, so we have a posible prostitition or close enough scenario. We dont know if Lacey agreed to it, if it was reluctant and did it go to the parties to please her or for her own amusement. Probably both.
Anyway, she gets a damaged person and set her in a path of corruption, sex decadence and nihilism for her own amusement. Not a good action.
After meeting the MC, she gives the Lessons about Lacey in the cruelest way posible, even if the MC ask about it, she had to either told him no, or at least deliver the lessons in a more gentle way. The MC did it in a gentle way to Bella, so its posible. Instead she unleashes a cruel version and let it eat at his mind for weeks even months forbidding him to talk it with the wife until finished or her starts the conversation herself. That is plain torture.
She defends and gaslights her "loved one" to protect a friend/sex toy when Lacey outright cheats on him. She admits doing that defence, and with how many things is trown in the conversation we dont even know the extent of that defense, for sure she is covering on the Damian affair, but there are a lot more things she could have lied like what Lacey did in the 120 hours of parties for the fake job, etc...
She goes to a suicidal person (MC at the cliffs after Damian) with an anoyed attitude. Like i didnt want to be here. Just reinforcing into the suicidal person that they not matter. (The fact that the MC calmed down already was not know to them)
Sexual assault of Evan, lets make jokes. And be curious about the size. It would be traumatic to any other girl but since it was my turboslut that okay, i guess thats what she thought.
Oh, and lets bring a replacement from when my friend marriage goes up in flames. Hell i'll even flame up the fire a little.
Lets give the dude with abandonment issues a last lesson of how her wife enjoyed her time without him. In the hope he ditches her friend out, then lets bring drugs to that friend, you know so she can cope with her past actions that you started, and maybe OD'es on the present situation that you provocked.
I could go on but im tired already.
Nothing of this is the inmaturity of a teenager. (Except maybe her misremembering Lorenzo and telling MC without being sure.)
She is a cruel person that barely expresses remorse, a bad person that would burn everything in its path even if its someone close to her. She is malevolent. She may change, like Lacey is trying but she has not even begun.
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I like how you think but I think the game is railroaded into the ending of Black Snake Moan
Some good points made here , but I still find it strange/annoying that once the MC finds out about the usage he isn't like see the next time someone offers you k or if you find an old stash ring me you fucking dickhead