VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Lady Lydia]

Being held accountable and having a redemption arc is actually better than simply writing her to be likeable from the start.
You are discounting everything that happened in the story to: "I don't like Lacey".

Complex characters are as the word implies, complex, and require effort in understanding them, you might still not like the character and that is fine.

Lacey could change, but implementing your changes would make this story way less interesting, not because "Lacey bad!" but because it will not have to explore several emotional aspects.
I underlined which changes I think would keep the story in the same wavelength but would actually remove some of the "silliness" added for fetish appeasement.

I do not see the irony in actually chenging the MC into a character instead of a cardboard witness which has no agency whatsoever in any of the aspects of his life and story, he simply goes along, else the next shock value event might not happen or would have consequences that would shape the story, this is not a novel concept, Mc seems to have brain damage himself and cannot remember what happened the a week or even a day before.

Lacey was a whore, simple as that (with the added complexity of her choices and external influences), and she does play the victim, in fact she is called out on it in within the story, see? you do get the character!

And yes she is abusive towards MC, this is one of the points of the story, and she was somewhat narcissistic and abusive towards him even before she left, all somewhat detailed in act 2.

In act 2 (actually from the act 1 I KNEW convo in the bathroom) we see some growth from her, some willingness to break the cycle and improve herself, you might not still like her, but the Prof started her redemption arc.
Damaged characters might not be likeable, but you can emphatize with the journey of trying to be better.

I would take a well written redemption arc that doesn't end in forgiveness than a mary sued version that points there without a challenge.

Lacey cannot be forgiven unless MC is written even more as a doormat without self respect, but as I often say, acceptance and understanding are still on the table.
Mia on the other hand has zero redeeming qualities sadly, and there I do the a huge fail in the character design/creation process, she needed to be the "corrupting friend" so she was written like a POS that cheers for SA.

You have not read act 2 it seems if you say that about Lacey, maybe act 3 will be as you say, since the prof mentioned she will fuck up again.

But I am happy you realized the main issue of the story, which is lack of consequences and a witness MC.
Look, even if we exert a strong grip on our supension of disbelief and accept that MC is weak to Lacey because he fear she will leave him again, how he accepts whatever bad thing that happens from the rest of the cast is laughable.

Anna and Mia hide that Lacey was trying to seduce Jared? all good.
Veronica hides even with Lacey threatening to commit suicide? all good, there is actually a choice to say that MC is very happy with her behaviour in the KW.
Anna doesn't say shit to MC about the tennis dates? all good.
Mia brings drugs to your drug addicted wife? all good.
Isaac tries to take her away and leaves a lingering promise to Lacey? all good, we need him for plot reasons. Oh also, he's Bi now.
Christine despises Mia and Lacey? nah, we need the crew now, so Mia is a cool gal.

So as you can see, the main issue is MC agency, things can be fucked up, but without a response from MC or these things shaping the story, you have a series of events which seem almost disconneted from each other, simply because everyone acts like they didn't happen and that is detrimental to the characters interaction and growth.

I am "the person", and I still do not see it as idiotic, you and some others might not like her, others are interested in seeing how much she will fuck up and another group might be interested in her growth and atonement.

Not every novel is for everyone, you talk about this novel not having success because the main LI is not likeable (again, to you, since there are people that even like Mia, which is a shitbag), yet this is a pretty successful novel, if I understood correctly the biggest hit the professor had so...

If I had to take a guess based on people posts, MC and Mia are less liked than Lacey overall.

And I agree that Lacey did too much, forgiveness is off the table and all that, but her being extremely flawed is actually an endearing point of the story.
I also agree that some scenes, such as Bastion, were put merely for shock value and ruined even more of her chances.

Ah so some sort of backwards Orpheus and Eurydice, interesting take, and I say this genuinely.
I would not want to see supernatural elements in L&J, but it would be interesting.

I understand the frustration, I do, and I am 100% sure that it comes from the lack of consequences in the game, because that leads to a simple string of shock moments and that is it.
But I will hold firm in the hope that we will get consequences, redemptions and growth from our main characters.

Oh and a full and clear picture of the past, else there cannot be neither acceptance nor understanding, because how can someone accept and understand something he is not aware about?

Anyway, good discussion.

While I do agree a great source of aggravation comes from the lack of consequences for Lacey's action, and I did mention previously I dislike how every characters are made by the Dev to give justification to Lacey for her every fuck ups or cover for her, I agree completely. I do entirely agree the MC being more assertive and having more control over his life would be fantastic, but the problem if it was the case it would mean the story should have ended Act 1, after Lacey fucked her coworker like she did, he would have dropped her, its the problem right now like I said repeatedly Lacey as she is right now should be an instant drop, if you alter the narrative to make it so he was more assertive to begin with, he'd drop her in a snap of a finger and end the story Act 1, its impossible to make him better without making her better at the same time, you need to tone her done to be able to tone him up and keep the narrative ongoing.

As for Lacey having gotten better in Act 2, does she really? As I said she mention the therapy, she mention being aware of her issues, but does she really act like it? No. On the slut path she end up kissing baldy and the MC when he confront her about it she says 'you could have told me to stop', she can be getting more self-aware but if she doesn't act on it, it doesn't solve the problems, it just mean she knows of them and keep acting the same.

I am lazy, I am fully aware of that, but I can't motivate myself to be change, so does that make me a better person for being aware or worst because being aware I chose to remain as I am? Its the same issue with Lacey, she has many issues, she is aware of them, she is becoming more aware of them, but she doesn't really act on it, at least not in any way we are made aware of, the most she does is damage control, she react to the MC's reactions at her fuck ups, but while problematic events happen she doesn't act in a way to correct her actions, she does whatever she wants, after which she watch what the MC's reaction is afterward and react to it claiming she is trying to do better.

Right now I feel the Dev care more about Lacey than the MC, she is perpetually enabled and justified in everything she does, and force every other characters to go along with it, and to change this you need to change everyone in this fucked up group. Not just the MC, not just the other girls, but also Lacey herself, because the problem is how everyone is reacting to Lacey, so to make everyone else again better you need to make Lacey better, so if you want to correct the narrative to make the all the other characters better you intrinsically need to change Lacey too.

Again if you make everyone but Lacey better, it just mean the entire story would have ended Act 1, as Anna would have made a concerted effort to break the MC & Lacey up and claim him for herself, it would have been simple, point to the fact Lacey wanted to make her effectively 'double date' some guys and it would give her the arguments to point him toward Lacey effectively in a sense cheating on him, Hell a better version of Mia as I had envisioned could have given the MC an idea of what sort of College life Lacey's went thru for the same purpose, the reality is if you made all the girls better they'd all have turned on Lacey Act 1, and with several girls all working against her, the story would have been over in a snap, so either you make the MC, Lacey and the rest of the girls all better, or you keep them all being as problematic as they are, its the only way to keep the story going, and if the intent is for the story to end positively the only way to go about it is making everyone in their group better.

Sure you can say things will get better later, but things are so bad right now that its unbelievable everything hasn't come crashing down like a house of cards on top of the group. Sure the story present a perpetual cycle of emotional struggles that are getting 'overcome' but they are getting overcome more via Deus Ex Machina than some believable development.

W...t....f...are you even on about???

If you mean I got the names wrong, I play a ton of VNs, at one point names get confused, you can't play a hundred VNs with a thousand characters and expect to keep track of everyone, its been like 2 months maybe since my last playthrough of this so I might have forgotten some of the assholes name since that point I likely played again dozens of different VNs in the meanwhile. Hell I had forgotten Lacey's name too until I checked back this game a couple days ago.

I am not interested in a kink serving story though. My interest in NTR (or more specifically Neotrare) is the love to loss to resolution story, similar to the traditional fallen hero and recovery stories.

Few authors give this honest attention due to serving the focus you describe which is entirely missing the point of the story.

Goodness do I agree with you, I'd be fine with NTR stories if the followed the natural cycle such a narrative is meant to undertake, the problem is the entire thing is driven by a toxic group that are effectively either sadists or masochists, they want the narrative to be painful at the end to get their own pleasure fix and every single one of them keep driving this extreme to dominate all the NTR stories.

The cycle like you said should effectively always be about love, that fall into loss, than the original version of such narratives tended to have the love won back at the end or revenge or both AKA The Count of Monte Cristo. This is how those narratives are meant to be made, but nowadays like I said a toxic group took over control of that genre and has driven it into the ground, making it very distasteful for most of us.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Congrats on 200 pages everyone

 

[funnythings3785]

Right now I feel the Dev care more about Lacey than the MC,...

Sorry, this one made me laugh...

We have been saying for a while now "Everyone loves the MC, but nobody cares about him..." and this made me chuckle because it seems it includes the developer as well.

 

[Dark Quean Olivia]

If you mean I got the names wrong, I play a ton of VNs, at one point names get confused, you can't play a hundred VNs with a thousand characters and expect to keep track of everyone, its been like 2 months maybe since my last playthrough of this so I might have forgotten some of the assholes name since that point I likely played again dozens of different VNs in the meanwhile. Hell I had forgotten Lacey's name too until I checked back this game a couple days ago.

Ok...sounds like you a issue more than anything but:

Why the hell would Jared be on the East coast at V's Art Dept meeting???? What...he just took a week off work and decided to crash the same hotel?

Hmmm?

Why?

 

[NewGuy2022]

Ok...sounds like you a issue more than anything but:

Why the hell would Jared be on the East coast at V's Art Dept meeting???? What...he just took a week off work and decided to crash the same hotel?

Hmmm?

Why?

I guess someone wanted him to know about it or... ...(getting really tinfoil hat here) somehow he has access to their communications.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Sorry, this one made me laugh...

We have been saying for a while now "Everyone loves the MC, but nobody cares about him..." and this made me chuckle because it seems it includes the developer as well.

What I mean by saying that is basically what I'd call the 'Naruto' problem, if you ever watched that anime or read the manga you have a feeling inevitably that the guy that made that anime & manga cared more for Sasuke a side protagonist / antagonist than the main character the show is named after, Naruto himself.

In this story you feel the Dev care more for Lacey than the MC, the Dev does everything possible to enable, cover & justify her actions, driving all the characters in the story to support her even if its absolutely senseless for that to be happening. When she is called on her shit everyone just basically 'turn the other cheek' and let her slap them again... and again... and again.

People that want the MC to assert himself, gain agency & control over his life are never going to get it because the Dev will always put the MC's interests secondary to Lacey's. So story wise Lacey is never going to grow into being a better person because the MC is the only one that is ever going to be made to reach for her point of view, while she remain largely where she was from the start and just say she is better while in truth we'll never actually see her be better, and all the characters will just cheer for her having changed for the 'better' while never proving it to be the case.

Any positive ending as is will be for her to have escaped the schemes to turn her into a whore, kept the MC has her husband regardless of her actions and convince everyone everything else to go along with it, love will have 'triumphed' over jealousy, with the MC overlooking Lacey's repeated offenses to their relationship and with Lacey compensating that by letting him have an harem, meaning both chracters will have overcome their jealousy. So a forced false positive ending if anything if the narrative isn't changed right now, a house of card that should absolutely have came down on top of them but that is going to be kept standing purely by Deus Ex Machina by the Dev.

Either that or like I said its going to chain into Augusta, kill Lacey off, have her appear overthere and the MC will chose to die off along with her, or whatever fate walking into the tunnel is meant to represent. Either ending its not going to be a good ending, its going to be a very bitter with fake sugar added to it, like a diet soda, to make the entire thing digestable. If that is the end goal of the Dev, well fine, so it be it, all my previous comments were largely in the optic of how to fix the story to make it genuinely a viable happy ending, if that isn't the optic the Dev is targetting, sure keep everything as is, if it is, well the Dev need to change the things to make it viable to happen.

Again I might have believed the Dev might have grown the chracters and narrative in that direction naturally, until in Act 2 the Dev force the MC to accept Lacey's cheating on him because 'it doesn't matter' and make the MC 'understand' that point of view, at which point it became clear any chances the narrative would naturally develop to make their relationship viable were pretty much thrown out the window, a ton of ducktape is the only way this is going to be made out to work with the current narrative. While you can make a boat out of ducktape, don't expect it to be sturdy and last long.

 

[Pugthulhu]

Wow, I'm away for a little bit and this place goes crazy.
I'm not going to go back through and quote everyone so I will just try to reply in general.

First off, as far who the main character is of the VN. Is it Lacey, No. Is it the MC, No. It's the relationship between them. The game starts when they meet and will end when either they part or they heal to the point that they can be together without their flaws causing a rift between them. I think it could go either way and I think both ways could end with a positive ending.

And in case anyone here doesn't know, I like Lacey. She may be my favorite character. I think she is a deeply flawed character that has had more character development than anyone else in the game. (And I think and hope that Act 3 will be the MCs time for character development)

Is she flawed? Yes. Has she made a shit ton of mistakes? Yes. Has she done things that would have probably end a marriage with anyone else? Yes. Is she a victim? Yes. Is she an abuser? Yes.

For the MC, is he flawed? Yes. Does he come across as weak? Yes. Does it feel like he can standup for himself? No. Has he made anyone accountable for anything ever? No.

The difference is that through Act 2 Lacey has shown to be aware of her flaws and says that she wants to be better even though she continues to fuck it up.
The MC has not. He has been the same weak character through the entire game. And as has been pointed out many times he has never held anyone accountable.

Think about it. Ever since they met what has the MC done? He has helped her normalize her abuse and helped her live with it. He has never tried to make anyone accountable. He set up these rules to help her cope. To help her continue to be abused. He sat her on the correct color of bench, brought her extra food and at the end of the day he helped her go back home into the arms of a monster.
Both Lacey and the MC see him as her savior and maybe his rules helped her survive until she could get out, but maybe if he had instead of helping her survivor he could have helped her go someone to get help. To hold her parents accountable. If he hadn't been there maybe she would have gotten worse or maybe if he wasn't there to help her hide it she would have come to the attention of someone that would actually help her instead of just helping her cover it up and sending her home every night.

Now, I understand when this started they were both 6 years old, and I don't expect a 6 year old to be able to go against a parent. But he could have done something to hold her father accountable for his actions at some point before they turned 19. But instead his goal was to let it happen until they could run away so that nobody would have to suffer the consequences of their actions.

All that being said, do I dislike the MC? No, I like him and hope he ends up happy. I also hope Lacey ends up happy. That could be with them together or not.

The only person I think I actively dislike is Mia. Mrs. "I'm afraid of penises, but it didn't seem to bother me when I gave you that handjob"

Everyone talks about their mistakes and there are far to many to count, but the keystone to all of the problems and all of the mistakes is where it all began, with her abusive parents. So far this has been all but ignored by everyone. I think that before they can heal, if they can heal they first need to address that and then move forward through the rest of the problems, the rest of the abuse, the rest of the lies. And then figure out it happy is a life together or a life apart.

 

[KseiPo]

But let me ask you something, which of Mia's behaviour is justifiable for you?

As a rape victim, cheering when Lacey is sexually assaulted?
Bringing drugs to an addict?
Trying to "steal" her best friend husband?
Sending hurtful messages because of "play acting"? (do not forget that her original plan was to send them period, because she "hated" MC)
Pushing the limits an empty drugged up shell of a girl?
Derailing another person life so she could act as a "replacement"?
Planning a last hurrah for an addict that is trying to get clean and wanted to cut off with that life?

And these are only a part of the inxeplicable things, but if you have an answer I'll be honestly very glad to hear it.

You are right I don't have any explanation to this. But you are forgetting one important thing I believe. You are considering all this from your perspective, from a perspective of a mentally healthy (I hope) and grown up person. And I'm totally agree with you here on this forum.

But when I play the story, I'm not me anymore, I am - the MC. And who I am then? I'm a person who's childhood was almost destroyed. He has got almost no experiences with another girls or even children of his age in general. We can assume since he spent almost all his time with Lacey, that he does not know how to deal with such behavior as he receives from Mia. He found a way to deal with Lacey somehow (but had no other examples to compare if its good or not).

You and I are adults and we know, that words means almost nothing if no action follows. MC does not know it, he never had any opportunity to learn it. So for him what Mia tells him has meaning and if he does not get any confirmation from actions - he does not care much. This probably will be one of the things he must learn in next chapters to become a grown up and heal his wounds.

And one more thing about it. May be I can put myself in MC's shoes better than others because I also was a virgin when I finished my university studies. For sure not for the same reason. Just because I was a bookworm and a computer nerd. But when a pretty girl showed an interest in me (it happened a couple of times during my student years) I was so excited that I was not thinking straight I can say. I could believe any shit she would tell me and did not care about any actions. I was ready to forgive her a lot. May be not so much as MC does for Lacey, but still. And I even did not understood the meaning of some actions back then. Its now I know that in one situation a girl was just teasing / testing me if I'm a jealous type. Back then I was just feeling confused.

What I'm trying to say is that if you put yourself in place of MC: with no experience, with pretty childish perception of human behavior, then you may be understand why MC sees all his friends including Mia as good persons.

I agree that current behavior of Mia is pretty bad. She admits it in words but don't do anything to correct it. For grown up healthy person its obvious. Let's see where it goes in next chapters, may be she will get a chance to show her growth.

 

[funnythings3785]

You are right I don't have any explanation to this. But you are forgetting one important thing I believe. You are considering all this from your perspective, from a perspective of a mentally healthy (I hope) and grown up person. And I'm totally agree with you here on this forum.

But when I play the story, I'm not me anymore, I am - the MC. And who I am then? I'm a person who's childhood was almost destroyed. He has got almost no experiences with another girls or even children of his age in general. We can assume since he spent almost all his time with Lacey, that he does not know how to deal with such behavior as he receives from Mia. He found a way to deal with Lacey somehow (but had no other examples to compare if its good or not).

You and I are adults and we know, that words means almost nothing if no action follows. MC does not know it, he never had any opportunity to learn it. So for him what Mia tells him has meaning and if he does not get any confirmation from actions - he does not care much. This probably will be one of the things he must learn in next chapters to become a grown up and heal his wounds.

And one more thing about it. May be I can put myself in MC's shoes better than others because I also was a virgin when I finished my university studies. For sure not for the same reason. Just because I was a bookworm and a computer nerd. But when a pretty girl showed an interest in me (it happened a couple of times during my student years) I was so excited that I was not thinking straight I can say. I could believe any shit she would tell me and did not care about any actions. I was ready to forgive her a lot. May be not so much as MC does for Lacey, but still. And I even did not understood the meaning of some actions back then. Its now I know that in one situation a girl was just teasing / testing me if I'm a jealous type. Back then I was just feeling confused.

What I'm trying to say is that if you put yourself in place of MC: with no experience, with pretty childish perception of human behavior, then you may be understand why MC sees all his friends including Mia as good persons.

I agree that current behavior of Mia is pretty bad. She admits it in words but don't do anything to correct it. For grown up healthy person its obvious. Let's see where it goes in next chapters, may be she will get a chance to show her growth.

I think experience plays some part, but we aren't talking about rocket science here, this is simple cause and effect. The MC is intelligent, he had to have some sort of logical thinking process to be able to consume network engineering concepts. So he can use basic cause and effect reasoning to see certain behavior results and note that their outcomes are counter productive to their solutions.

I think it is easier to accept the MCs inaction more on the fact that the abuse he had from lacey in his childhood set in certain conditions to his thinking that cause him to react in ways that are illogical, desperate and emotional, similar to the issues of a wife who is beaten, yet still clings and defends their husband. They know that is it wrong, but they do not take action for various reasons to deal with it.

I think the MC is much like this which is why you see his inner reasoning which does show logical process, but then the fear, the anxiety, etc... set in and he goes into a mode where he clings to the situation rather than confronting it. Because of this, he makes excuses for her and himself (blaming himself constantly) and allows others to drive him to solutions that work into that closed reasoning.

The MC has no real friends, nobody paying attention to him and his needs to help him come to this realization and partly I think is because everyone knows that if he comes to those terms, their part in his life will likely end. Most of the woman all want to be part of the Lacey club, to get a piece of the MC and are willing to let him suffer to have it. It is why everybody loves him, but nobody really cares about him.

 

[KseiPo]

I think experience plays some part, but we aren't talking about rocket science here, this is simple cause and effect. The MC is intelligent, he had to have some sort of logical thinking process to be able to consume network engineering concepts. So he can use basic cause and effect reasoning to see certain behavior results and note that their outcomes are counter productive to their solutions.

I think it is easier to accept the MCs inaction more on the fact that the abuse he had from lacey in his childhood set in certain conditions to his thinking that cause him to react in ways that are illogical, desperate and emotional, similar to the issues of a wife who is beaten, yet still clings and defends their husband. They know that is it wrong, but they do not take action for various reasons to deal with it.

I think the MC is much like this which is why you see his inner reasoning which does show logical process, but then the fear, the anxiety, etc... set in and he goes into a mode where he clings to the situation rather than confronting it. Because of this, he makes excuses for her and himself (blaming himself constantly) and allows others to drive him to solutions that work into that closed reasoning.

The MC has no real friends, nobody paying attention to him and his needs to help him come to this realization and partly I think is because everyone knows that if he comes to those terms, their part in his life will likely end. Most of the woman all want to be part of the Lacey club, to get a piece of the MC and are willing to let him suffer to have it. It is why everybody loves him, but nobody really cares about him.

Yes, you are I right, I agree that this plays also a big role in what is happening with MC and why he is behaving like this regarding his "friends".

 

[Lady Lydia]

I think experience plays some part, but we aren't talking about rocket science here, this is simple cause and effect. The MC is intelligent, he had to have some sort of logical thinking process to be able to consume network engineering concepts. So he can use basic cause and effect reasoning to see certain behavior results and note that their outcomes are counter productive to their solutions.

I think it is easier to accept the MCs inaction more on the fact that the abuse he had from lacey in his childhood set in certain conditions to his thinking that cause him to react in ways that are illogical, desperate and emotional, similar to the issues of a wife who is beaten, yet still clings and defends their husband. They know that is it wrong, but they do not take action for various reasons to deal with it.

I think the MC is much like this which is why you see his inner reasoning which does show logical process, but then the fear, the anxiety, etc... set in and he goes into a mode where he clings to the situation rather than confronting it. Because of this, he makes excuses for her and himself (blaming himself constantly) and allows others to drive him to solutions that work into that closed reasoning.

The MC has no real friends, nobody paying attention to him and his needs to help him come to this realization and partly I think is because everyone knows that if he comes to those terms, their part in his life will likely end. Most of the woman all want to be part of the Lacey club, to get a piece of the MC and are willing to let him suffer to have it. It is why everybody loves him, but nobody really cares about him.

First, let's be real like 99% of all story characters that ever existed have their effective cognitive process crippled to justify the narrative, so yea the MC is smart, but he is going to be dumb whenever the Dev calls for it, Hell Lacey is supposed to be smart too and yet well most of us question that being the case, because again the Devs will inevitably cripple their characters capabilities if the story calls for them to ignore various things.

When it comes to what happened with Lacey and the MC's inaction its due to a simple thing, familiarity breeds contempt, he started taking care of her as a 6 yo, by the time he was old enough that he should have figured out to act out and try to deal with it he had been doing that for 10 years, 10 years of likely seeing no other authority figures do anything about the situation so what that likely taught him? Don't bother, no one will help. So when he was old enough that he should have acted to help her get away from her terrible home life, he didn't because at this point he was used to it on one hand, and on the other he likely didn't expect their was an actual solution. Ever read Harry Potter, its incomprehensible how Harry could have been mistreated as he was and no one ever noticed it, yet it happened because JKR is an idiot, which is part of what has fed the Fanfiction community for that series for the last 30 years, trying to deal with the repeated issues with the story, and justifying how all of it could have happened.

As for the MC having no real friends, again I would absolutely say its false, but the problem is the Dev made all the characters simp out for Lacey, but otherwise they are all about him, again the reality we should remember is this is a story, the characters are slaves to the narrative, expecting them to act rationally only work if the writer actually allow them to behave that way. I mean Christine for example, got involved with the intent to sabotage their relationship for his sake, not Lacey, Anna love the MC but she knows she always be second to Lacey and that if she love him all she can do is to try to keep them together because she saw what happened when the MC got separated from Lacey, he nearly died. Outside of Mia every single girls are far more invested in the MC, but he is 100% invested in Lacey, so the only way for them to support him is to support Lacey. Hell even Mia is more invested in the MC than Lacey at this point, which is why she was trying to find a replacement for Lacey. Its like all the characters are bi-polar, they are 100% behind the MC in all things except when it come to Lacey they'll back her up because they know the MC will back her up & because the narrative dictate it to them.

I think some people forget at times, even myself at times that when things go poorly in a story, its always the writer's fault, they made it that way, characters and narrative will always depend on them, they are the literal Fate of their story. So maybe complaining about the fictional characters is being stupid, just blame the writer and point out everything wrong with it in hope the writer correct things, but don't think of it as if any of the characters have actual agency, they are puppets, nothing more. The MC didn't chose to be a wet noodle, the writer did, Lacey didn't chose to be a slut in college, the writer did, Mia didn't chose to effectively pimp her best friend in college, the writer did, etc. Professor Amethyst in this case is to be blamed for everything that is wrong with the narrative and characters, no one else.

 

[SayoraSaint]

First, let's be real like 99% of all story characters that ever existed have their effective cognitive process crippled to justify the narrative, so yea the MC is smart, but he is going to be dumb whenever the Dev calls for it, Hell Lacey is supposed to be smart too and yet well most of us question that being the case, because again the Devs will inevitably cripple their characters capabilities if the story calls for them to ignore various things.

When it comes to what happened with Lacey and the MC's inaction its due to a simple thing, familiarity breeds contempt, he started taking care of her as a 6 yo, by the time he was old enough that he should have figured out to act out and try to deal with it he had been doing that for 10 years, 10 years of likely seeing no other authority figures do anything about the situation so what that likely taught him? Don't bother, no one will help. So when he was old enough that he should have acted to help her get away from her terrible home life, he didn't because at this point he was used to it on one hand, and on the other he likely didn't expect their was an actual solution. Ever read Harry Potter, its incomprehensible how Harry could have been mistreated as he was and no one ever noticed it, yet it happened because JKR is an idiot, which is part of what has fed the Fanfiction community for that series for the last 30 years, trying to deal with the repeated issues with the story, and justifying how all of it could have happened.

As for the MC having no real friends, again I would absolutely say its false, but the problem is the Dev made all the characters simp out for Lacey, but otherwise they are all about him, again the reality we should remember is this is a story, the characters are slaves to the narrative, expecting them to act rationally only work if the writer actually allow them to behave that way. I mean Christine for example, got involved with the intent to sabotage their relationship for his sake, not Lacey, Anna love the MC but she knows she always be second to Lacey and that if she love him all she can do is to try to keep them together because she saw what happened when the MC got separated from Lacey, he nearly died. Outside of Mia every single girls are far more invested in the MC, but he is 100% invested in Lacey, so the only way for them to support him is to support Lacey. Hell even Mia is more invested in the MC than Lacey at this point, which is why she was trying to find a replacement for Lacey. Its like all the characters are bi-polar, they are 100% behind the MC in all things except when it come to Lacey they'll back her up because they know the MC will back her up & because the narrative dictate it to them.

I think some people forget at times, even myself at times that when things go poorly in a story, its always the writer's fault, they made it that way, characters and narrative will always depend on them, they are the literal Fate of their story. So maybe complaining about the fictional characters is being stupid, just blame the writer and point out everything wrong with it in hope the writer correct things, but don't think of it as if any of the characters have actual agency, they are puppets, nothing more. The MC didn't chose to be a wet noodle, the writer did, Lacey didn't chose to be a slut in college, the writer did, Mia didn't chose to effectively pimp her best friend in college, the writer did, etc. Professor Amethyst in this case is to be blamed for everything that is wrong with the narrative and characters, no one else.

Blaming a writer for making a character in their creation weak or strong, or a whore, is beyond absurd. They're a creator; they paint a picture as they see it and as they want you to see it. What you can really blame the author for is the lack of detail and depth in a work that claims to be serious, as well as the presence of pornologic (which isn't surprising for this site, but it's strange to see it in L&J).
Following this, if they portrayed lacey as a mindless stupid whore, it means they wanted the reader to see her exactly like that, and the narrative demanded it, or they wanted to depict something else but failed.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Blaming a writer for making a character in their creation weak or strong, or a whore, is beyond absurd. They're a creator; they paint a picture as they see it and as they want you to see it. What you can really blame the author for is the lack of detail and depth in a work that claims to be serious, as well as the presence of pornologic (which isn't surprising for this site, but it's strange to see it in L&J).
Following this, if they portrayed lacey as a mindless stupid whore, it means they wanted the reader to see her exactly like that, and the narrative demanded it, or they wanted to depict something else but failed.

Writers / Devs aren't perfect, they can make mistakes, even in how they chose to portray a character or how they want to proceed with their narrative, its why you should absolutely point to things you deem problematic, because if they didn't pay attention at the time and misrepresented a character or created an event which in sight of others is leading to a different interpretation, they should be told so they can change things. Its like I said previously, for example, if the Dev wants Lacey & Mia to be better perceived, the narrative and characterization needs to change, if they are happy with the current perception of the characters, than its fine, its their story, but the Dev can have misjudged how people would look at specific events or circumstances. Again for example Mia has been attributed to being effectively Lacey's pimp in College, maybe the Dev had a completely different notion, and didn't realize how certain events could be interpreted by others, maybe the Dev genuinely think that what Mia did to 'help' Lacey in College was a form of therapy, but being aware of how people perceive it, might rewrite this part to change that more twisted implications of what happened.

 

[SayoraSaint]

Writers / Devs aren't perfect, they can make mistakes, even in how they chose to portray a character or how they want to proceed with their narrative, its why you should absolutely point to things you deem problematic, because if they didn't pay attention at the time and misrepresented a character or created an event which in sight of others is leading to a different interpretation, they should be told so they can change things. Its like I said previously, for example, if the Dev wants Lacey & Mia to be better perceived, the narrative and characterization needs to change, if they are happy with the current perception of the characters, than its fine, its their story, but the Dev can have misjudged how people would look at specific events or circumstances. Again for example Mia has been attributed to being effectively Lacey's pimp in College, maybe the Dev had a completely different notion, and didn't realize how certain events could be interpreted by others, maybe the Dev genuinely think that what Mia did to 'help' Lacey in College was a form of therapy, but being aware of how people perceive it, might rewrite this part to change that more twisted implications of what happened.

First, we don't see the full picture and can only guess what story the author is trying to tell us.
Next, imagine that the author listened to our forum and tried to please us. For example, I want lacey to suffer, someone wants Mia to suffer, and someone else wants everyone to live happily and die on the same day. It's impossible to please everyone.

 

[funnythings3785]

First, let's be real like 99% of all story characters that ever existed have their effective cognitive process crippled to justify the narrative, so yea the MC is smart, but he is going to be dumb whenever the Dev calls for it, Hell Lacey is supposed to be smart too and yet well most of us question that being the case, because again the Devs will inevitably cripple their characters capabilities if the story calls for them to ignore various things.

When it comes to what happened with Lacey and the MC's inaction its due to a simple thing, familiarity breeds contempt, he started taking care of her as a 6 yo, by the time he was old enough that he should have figured out to act out and try to deal with it he had been doing that for 10 years, 10 years of likely seeing no other authority figures do anything about the situation so what that likely taught him? Don't bother, no one will help. So when he was old enough that he should have acted to help her get away from her terrible home life, he didn't because at this point he was used to it on one hand, and on the other he likely didn't expect their was an actual solution. Ever read Harry Potter, its incomprehensible how Harry could have been mistreated as he was and no one ever noticed it, yet it happened because JKR is an idiot, which is part of what has fed the Fanfiction community for that series for the last 30 years, trying to deal with the repeated issues with the story, and justifying how all of it could have happened.

As for the MC having no real friends, again I would absolutely say its false, but the problem is the Dev made all the characters simp out for Lacey, but otherwise they are all about him, again the reality we should remember is this is a story, the characters are slaves to the narrative, expecting them to act rationally only work if the writer actually allow them to behave that way. I mean Christine for example, got involved with the intent to sabotage their relationship for his sake, not Lacey, Anna love the MC but she knows she always be second to Lacey and that if she love him all she can do is to try to keep them together because she saw what happened when the MC got separated from Lacey, he nearly died. Outside of Mia every single girls are far more invested in the MC, but he is 100% invested in Lacey, so the only way for them to support him is to support Lacey. Hell even Mia is more invested in the MC than Lacey at this point, which is why she was trying to find a replacement for Lacey. Its like all the characters are bi-polar, they are 100% behind the MC in all things except when it come to Lacey they'll back her up because they know the MC will back her up & because the narrative dictate it to them.

I think some people forget at times, even myself at times that when things go poorly in a story, its always the writer's fault, they made it that way, characters and narrative will always depend on them, they are the literal Fate of their story. So maybe complaining about the fictional characters is being stupid, just blame the writer and point out everything wrong with it in hope the writer correct things, but don't think of it as if any of the characters have actual agency, they are puppets, nothing more. The MC didn't chose to be a wet noodle, the writer did, Lacey didn't chose to be a slut in college, the writer did, Mia didn't chose to effectively pimp her best friend in college, the writer did, etc. Professor Amethyst in this case is to be blamed for everything that is wrong with the narrative and characters, no one else.

I don't disagree with a lot of your points. I am simply going by how the characters act, elements of the story that seem reasonable to such explanation. The MC does have an abusive past that can be reasoned to explain his behavior. Lacey even has some "reasonable" means to explain her actions at times.

The hard one is Mia, and some of the others at key times (Anna).

So yes, the writer has authority over the story and this may result in sometimes a character being driven like a wedge into a specific behavior that is inconsistent with their past portrayal.

All we have to go by is what is presented in the story. This is all theorizing as to why a character may be as they are anyway, and like I said... some characters can be reasoned "within" the story as to why they may act the way they do.

 

[funnythings3785]

Writers / Devs aren't perfect, they can make mistakes, even in how they chose to portray a character or how they want to proceed with their narrative, its why you should absolutely point to things you deem problematic, because if they didn't pay attention at the time and misrepresented a character or created an event which in sight of others is leading to a different interpretation, they should be told so they can change things. Its like I said previously, for example, if the Dev wants Lacey & Mia to be better perceived, the narrative and characterization needs to change, if they are happy with the current perception of the characters, than its fine, its their story, but the Dev can have misjudged how people would look at specific events or circumstances. Again for example Mia has been attributed to being effectively Lacey's pimp in College, maybe the Dev had a completely different notion, and didn't realize how certain events could be interpreted by others, maybe the Dev genuinely think that what Mia did to 'help' Lacey in College was a form of therapy, but being aware of how people perceive it, might rewrite this part to change that more twisted implications of what happened.

I think by what has been presented in the story, most character portrayals are fairly within their general mark, but have some inconsistences that need tuning. The story appears to be more of a redemption story for Lacey so far. It would require the least amount of effort in changes to achieve this to completely solidify this.

To adjust the story to a point where it is about the MC coming to accept his jealousy as being unfounded and learning to forgive Lacey as a victim entirely (and Mia as a protector) as if he were the one with the problems would take a lot more work to establish.

Lacey is clearly at fault, so is Mia and the other women all play a part in this by their actions which are far more consistent in their betrayals and inconsideration for the MC than it is the MC just being unable to "accept" the situation and move on.

I think this is why many believe that the suggestion to write Lacey/Mia as victims and heroines would be a drastically different story than is presented.

The writer can love Lacey as his favorite, and Lacey can deeply love and adore the MC as he states and still have Lacey be selfish, cruel, and the abuser of the MC in both the past and even currently. This fits well with a redemption story.

As I said though, the biggest inconsistency is Mia and this may just be an oversight by the professor in terms of bringing her in to the MCs acceptance or, there may be more in the future which would provide a means for Mia, Lacey, and the others to meet their turning point of redemption through self discovery and recognition.

For me, I think a redemption story is far more interesting than a story of victims to which the MC is technically the bad guy who simply has to come to terms with it (suggesting he is at fault for having the feelings he has). That isn't interesting IMO and doesn't serve any real meaningful purpose or consequence to a character in terms of progression in a story.

 

[Pugthulhu]

I think by what has been presented in the story, most character portrayals are fairly within their general mark, but have some inconsistences that need tuning. The story appears to be more of a redemption story for Lacey so far. It would require the least amount of effort in changes to achieve this to completely solidify this.

To adjust the story to a point where it is about the MC coming to accept his jealousy as being unfounded and learning to forgive Lacey as a victim entirely (and Mia as a protector) as if he were the one with the problems would take a lot more work to establish.

Lacey is clearly at fault, so is Mia and the other women all play a part in this by their actions which are far more consistent in their betrayals and inconsideration for the MC than it is the MC just being unable to "accept" the situation and move on.

I think this is why many believe that the suggestion to write Lacey/Mia as victims and heroines would be a drastically different story than is presented.

The writer can love Lacey as his favorite, and Lacey can deeply love and adore the MC as he states and still have Lacey be selfish, cruel, and the abuser of the MC in both the past and even currently. This fits well with a redemption story.

As I said though, the biggest inconsistency is Mia and this may just be an oversight by the professor in terms of bringing her in to the MCs acceptance or, there may be more in the future which would provide a means for Mia, Lacey, and the others to meet their turning point of redemption through self discovery and recognition.

For me, I think a redemption story is far more interesting than a story of victims to which the MC is technically the bad guy who simply has to come to terms with it (suggesting he is at fault for having the feelings he has). That isn't interesting IMO and doesn't serve any real meaningful purpose or consequence to a character in terms of progression in a story.

I couldn't have said it better.
At this point I'm putting my faith in Prof that I will enjoy the story that he has planned.
I'm sure that some of those plans will be things that I don't like or don't seem to make sense, but I can accept that if they are important details that Prof will fill them in later.

It's fun discussing details and speculating on what could happen. There are things in the story up to this point that I feel could have been done better and characters like Mia that just don't make sense to me and I just don't like, but rather than trying to explain them from what I already know or asking for the story to be changed to explain them, I'm hoping that the story that is coming will fill this in and make the details and the characters better. It doesn't have to make them into someone I like, I can accept that I don't like everyone or everything in the story as long as it's a good story in the end.

On the Patreon comments Prof said that he is thinking there could be six acts for L&J. Considering we are only coming up on Act 3 and the half way point I suspect there will be alot more pain and stuff we don't like before we start getting to a point where the healing happens.

 

[Lady Lydia]

First, we don't see the full picture and can only guess what story the author is trying to tell us.
Next, imagine that the author listened to our forum and tried to please us. For example, I want lacey to suffer, someone wants Mia to suffer, and someone else wants everyone to live happily and die on the same day. It's impossible to please everyone.

Yea but its like I said ultimately it depend on what vibe the Dev wanted for the characters, possibly the Dev didn't think what a character or another has done would be perceived as negatively as it was and might want to correct the story to make things more in line with what they envisioned. I wasn't saying the Dev should just do what we ask, but the Dev should be conscious of how things are perceived by the people that play the game and figure out if it fits what they actually wanted to portray.

Look I am very aware I suck at explaining myself, I consistently do a poor job of that, I say something and its not being understood how I wanted it to be understood, its why I had to refine my thought process about the subject and talk again and again about certain things, because I am trying to be understood and if I feel I am not understood I'll keep going back to it until I feel its understood.

Its entirely possible for the Devs of games like this to have that very same problem, the difference is I am merely talking in a forum, they are crafting a narrative, so when I fail at properly expressing myself I just keep repeating myself and refining what I say, but if they have a similar issue, they need to go back to the story and rewrite some aspects of it to make it work.

I think by what has been presented in the story, most character portrayals are fairly within their general mark, but have some inconsistences that need tuning. The story appears to be more of a redemption story for Lacey so far. It would require the least amount of effort in changes to achieve this to completely solidify this.

To adjust the story to a point where it is about the MC coming to accept his jealousy as being unfounded and learning to forgive Lacey as a victim entirely (and Mia as a protector) as if he were the one with the problems would take a lot more work to establish.

Lacey is clearly at fault, so is Mia and the other women all play a part in this by their actions which are far more consistent in their betrayals and inconsideration for the MC than it is the MC just being unable to "accept" the situation and move on.

I think this is why many believe that the suggestion to write Lacey/Mia as victims and heroines would be a drastically different story than is presented.

The writer can love Lacey as his favorite, and Lacey can deeply love and adore the MC as he states and still have Lacey be selfish, cruel, and the abuser of the MC in both the past and even currently. This fits well with a redemption story.

As I said though, the biggest inconsistency is Mia and this may just be an oversight by the professor in terms of bringing her in to the MCs acceptance or, there may be more in the future which would provide a means for Mia, Lacey, and the others to meet their turning point of redemption through self discovery and recognition.

For me, I think a redemption story is far more interesting than a story of victims to which the MC is technically the bad guy who simply has to come to terms with it (suggesting he is at fault for having the feelings he has). That isn't interesting IMO and doesn't serve any real meaningful purpose or consequence to a character in terms of progression in a story.

Is it really a redemption story for Lacey? I feel the Dev has been trying to some degree to justify all her actions, again I'll point to the fact the Dev literally justified her cheating on the MC by saying 'it doesn't matter' and making the MC accept that idea. Is this really what redemption looks like for you? Rolling over like the MC did with that for Lacey? She never show any practical regret she spend most of her time explaining her point of view and expecting it to be supported and crying a river when its not and it might actually cause some real consequences for her, she keep making mistakes and deflect the blame on the MC or on others... I don't see much redemption being done here, just digging the hole deeper.

If anything what this story is all about is bluntly stated in the title, Love & Jealousy, the Love the MC & Lacey have of one another and if it can weather the perpetual hurricane Lacey brings to their relationship, and the Jealousy they experience due to each other, and the entire purpose of the story is pretty much I expect merely getting the two to come to term with their jealousy and still love one another at the end of it. No matter how justified the MC's jealousy is and how hypocritical Lacey's jealousy as been.

Look I love a good redemption story, but frankly I have seen zero hints this is actually the case here, the only time Lacey did anything to try to redeem herself, because she felt she had deprived the MC of his capability to experience things when she abandoned him in College, she followed thru at the same time by cheating hard on him. Afterward she has done zero efforts to really redeem herself in any shape or form in the rest of the story, when you get to chose a road you can chose her to become more slutty or bimbo, not a single drop of redemption done there, if anything she just dig the hole deeper at the bar by her actions with baldy regardless for what the MC wanted, on the 'punishment' path it seem instead its mostly still about satisfying her kinks, giving her a hard fuck or oral fixation, nothing is done to repay what she made the MC's endure merely done for her benefit.

So yea if anyone say anything about letting him fuck some other girls as beingt suitable redemption... after everything? She had already intended to give him a week long free pass albeit not really because she tailored the list of girls she expected him to be involved with to girls she didn't felt threaten by, than proceeded to cheating on him hard breaking all the agreements they had made regarding the subject, at which point she hadn't even really even faced the subject of her effectively double dating with Anna for a few weeks, plus all the questionable stuff she did for Jared that we don't really know the extent of because of her very flexible views on possibly what she would consider actual cheating, considering she says actual cheating doesn't matter, what about everything short of it, she might not even consider it an issue if she gave oral sex or hand jobs to other guys, later on the whole Isaac thing, so... she tried cheaply to repay the MC for abandoning him in College, than proceededed to perform several acts while married that would actually be considered by most to be divorce worthy if anything once tallied together.

Meanwhile what has she really done that we actually know to redeem herself? Going to therapy? That isn't redemption, this is trying to fix her issues and we have seen no real payout for that. Else the MC is now able to sleep around and she can't complain because she is so far in the red in term of their relationship that she owes him that much no question, but again that was all done while she effectively agreed to it, while she betrayed hard the MC, a very different situation. If someone sleep with several people while its agreed to by their partner, does it compensate for their partner cheating on them once? I doubt, trust is worth far more than what amount to an open relationship, and Lacey repeatedly broke the MC's trust so yea, that open relationship is cheap compensation for all she did.

 

[funnythings3785]

Is it really a redemption story for Lacey? I feel the Dev has been trying to some degree to justify all her actions, again I'll point to the fact the Dev literally justified her cheating on the MC by saying 'it doesn't matter' and making the MC accept that idea. Is this really what redemption looks like for you? Rolling over like the MC did with that for Lacey? She never show any practical regret she spend most of her time explaining her point of view and expecting it to be supported and crying a river when its not and it might actually cause some real consequences for her, she keep making mistakes and deflect the blame on the MC or on others... I don't see much redemption being done here, just digging the hole deeper.

Keep in mind I said that some tuning was needed. There are a lot of problems with Lacey, Mia, and all the other women. I think ultimately that is the base of the story, but as we have all pointed out the characters have some major inconsistencies and conflicting writing in them. As I pointed out, some slight tuning on those point would shore up the story to exactly that as opposed to a massive re-write to achieve the alternate suggestion. Will the professor achieve this? Will he fix those? Will the story progress as you pointed out, ignoring the glaring issues with the characters? Who knows and if you have read all the discussion, you know that was one of my first concerns when the professor first posted about Act 3 and how it would focus on the MC "healing".

If anything what this story is all about is bluntly stated in the title, Love & Jealousy, the Love the MC & Lacey have of one another and if it can weather the perpetual hurricane Lacey brings to their relationship, and the Jealousy they experience due to each other, and the entire purpose of the story is pretty much I expect merely getting the two to come to term with their jealousy and still love one another at the end of it. No matter how justified the MC's jealousy is and how hypocritical Lacey's jealousy as been.

Pretty much. Though we are only a 1/3rd through the story currently, and there are some hints of Lacey at least recognizing her behavior, regardless if it is honest or not. It is possible for these issues to be remedied, we just don't know. The story is setup so far as some sort of redemption progression though. Lacey knows she did wrong, Mia acknowledges it, but there are holes as none of them "act" on it. Sure, there are half hearted, good intentions in speech and recognition with some, but when it comes to real action, it does not exist. The story is early, that can be attended to, but will it or will this be a complete tragedy or worse, MC becomes the cuck of the story hidden under the guise of self healing? I have no idea...

Look I love a good redemption story, but frankly I have seen zero hints this is actually the case here, the only time Lacey did anything to try to redeem herself, because she felt she had deprived the MC of his capability to experience things when she abandoned him in College, she followed thru at the same time by cheating hard on him. Afterward she has done zero efforts to really redeem herself in any shape or form in the rest of the story, when you get to chose a road you can chose her to become more slutty or bimbo, not a single drop of redemption done there, if anything she just dig the hole deeper at the bar by her actions with baldy regardless for what the MC wanted, on the 'punishment' path it seem instead its mostly still about satisfying her kinks, giving her a hard fuck or oral fixation, nothing is done to repay what she made the MC's endure merely done for her benefit.

The hints are acknowledgement of wrong doing. That is the start of a redemption path. So far, Lacey acknowledges everything she has done (each time she screws up and the MC hammers her, she agrees, admits, does not try to defend, she knows what she did was messed up, wrong), Mia even admits this to some small extent, but so far they are just words with no action. Currently, the "action" they are taking to redeem themselves are convoluted schemes that still show they don't believe their own claims of wrong doing. They are still truly in denial at this point.

The factors that at least give this some legitimacy to the characters is the abuse of Lacey and the MC. Those somewhat reasonably explain their actions (somewhat). Whether the brain damage is true or just a writing issue, who knows... but if we accept the story as it is trying to be honest to what is written, Lacey can be reasoned for her misguided attempts at trying to reconcile and the MC can be reasoned why he puts up with it all.

Will it though? Will there finally be some points where things start to come together to this end? Who knows, it could all continue as it is, turn to garbage and end up being some horrible story where nothing gets resolved, or worse... it follows a standard NTR story result where the MC is the butt of the joke with a demoralized ending. It is possible, but as I said... the seeds for a redemption story are already there as opposed to a complete re-write to excuse Lacey and company that was suggested.

So yea if anyone say anything about letting him fuck some other girls as beingt suitable redemption... after everything? She had already intended to give him a week long free pass albeit not really because she tailored the list of girls she expected him to be involved with to girls she didn't felt threaten by, than proceeded to cheating on him hard breaking all the agreements they had made regarding the subject, at which point she hadn't even really even faced the subject of her effectively double dating with Anna for a few weeks, plus all the questionable stuff she did for Jared that we don't really know the extent of because of her very flexible views on possibly what she would consider actual cheating, considering she says actual cheating doesn't matter, what about everything short of it, she might not even consider it an issue if she gave oral sex or hand jobs to other guys, later on the whole Isaac thing, so... she tried cheaply to repay the MC for abandoning him in College, than proceededed to perform several acts while married that would actually be considered by most to be divorce worthy if anything once tallied together.

LOL, I hear you. The logic of Lacey in her solutions are beyond retarded, they are porn logic, or... the logic of someone who is so corrupted and infested with abusive sexual deviance that it is all she knows and so it is her "solution" to everything. You know the saying "When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail" and I think that can explain why Lacey proposes these stupid solutions. You see it in everything she has done, every choice she makes is always some odd messed up "abused" way to solve the issues, not something a normal healthy person would do.

Heck, the MC even points this out. All she has to do to fix this is stop being a whore, stop trying to use "Lacey" solutions to fix things. Just be a good devoted wife and the MC will heal over time. He is committed, whether we agree with him or not, he is in for the long haul due to his abuse. He won't quit on her for the most part (though there are hints of him considering and even starting an action to it before he is ganged up by others who keep pushing him back).

You are right though, we don't fully know about everything that occurred and if Lacey was honest about all of it. It could be as you say, but we don't know and this comes down to how the author wants to view it. All of the "mystery" may just be inconsistencies, or... they may be there to keep you in doubt. We don't know... time will tell.

Meanwhile what has she really done that we actually know to redeem herself? Going to therapy? That isn't redemption, this is trying to fix her issues and we have seen no real payout for that. Else the MC is now able to sleep around and she can't complain because she is so far in the red in term of their relationship that she owes him that much no question, but again that was all done while she effectively agreed to it, while she betrayed hard the MC, a very different situation. If someone sleep with several people while its agreed to by their partner, does it compensate for their partner cheating on them once? I doubt, trust is worth far more than what amount to an open relationship, and Lacey repeatedly broke the MC's trust so yea, that open relationship is cheap compensation for all she did.

She has done nothing of note, just words, proclaimed acts of trying to fix herself (ie therapist), and a lot of "plans" that she thinks will fix everything. In some way, you can say that is her acts of redemption, but as I said, this is still in denial, still not seeing the issues and so she will have to come to that understanding, but will she?

The whole "love experiment" is garbage, but it fits in with Lacey logic. The MC doesn't want it, he has said it multiple times he doesn't want this, but she pushes... why? Well, if we accept it as "honest" in her intent, then it is more Lacey dumb logic that will backfire, or... there is the other angle... this is Lacey corrupting the MC for her own purpose. I am not sure about the latter as there are numerous points in the story that seem to cause issues with that conclusion, but who knows... There are varying opinions on this with people on different sides as it concerns Lacey's true motives. We will see...

Right now though, Lacey is a liar, a cheat, and manipulator. Mia is exactly the same, even worse. All the women are enablers of Lacey and support her for their own selfish reasons. The proposed solutions won't fix the MC, but will make things worse if this is a true redemption story, but maybe it gets worse before it gets better?

If this isn't a redemption story and is just some Hodge podge of inconsistencies, that will be disappointing, but... the ride to that result should still be entertaining, providing the MC still retains some sort of dignity. If the professor starts cucking him constantly, excusing all attacks on him and continues to leave the offending parties (Lacey, Mia, the women) in some sort of limbo of never having to accept responsibility, that will be unfortunate and depending on how bad that gets... some of us may jump ship.

So far, I am willing to ride it out (for now) to see what the professor does. I "hope" the story changes to give some agency to the MC and some responsibility to the offenders, but I am not holding my breath. The story is at a stage where it can begin that route at least (with some major train wrecks along the way I am sure), so we will see in time.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Keep in mind I said that some tuning was needed. There are a lot of problems with Lacey, Mia, and all the other women. I think ultimately that is the base of the story, but as we have all pointed out the characters have some major inconsistencies and conflicting writing in them. As I pointed out, some slight tuning on those point would shore up the story to exactly that as opposed to a massive re-write to achieve the alternate suggestion. Will the professor achieve this? Will he fix those? Will the story progress as you pointed out, ignoring the glaring issues with the characters? Who knows and if you have read all the discussion, you know that was one of my first concerns when the professor first posted about Act 3 and how it would focus on the MC "healing".

Pretty much. Though we are only a 1/3rd through the story currently, and there are some hints of Lacey at least recognizing her behavior, regardless if it is honest or not. It is possible for these issues to be remedied, we just don't know. The story is setup so far as some sort of redemption progression though. Lacey knows she did wrong, Mia acknowledges it, but there are holes as none of them "act" on it. Sure, there are half hearted, good intentions in speech and recognition with some, but when it comes to real action, it does not exist. The story is early, that can be attended to, but will it or will this be a complete tragedy or worse, MC becomes the cuck of the story hidden under the guise of self healing? I have no idea...

The hints are acknowledgement of wrong doing. That is the start of a redemption path. So far, Lacey acknowledges everything she has done (each time she screws up and the MC hammers her, she agrees, admits, does not try to defend, she knows what she did was messed up, wrong), Mia even admits this to some small extent, but so far they are just words with no action. Currently, the "action" they are taking to redeem themselves are convoluted schemes that still show they don't believe their own claims of wrong doing. They are still truly in denial at this point.

The factors that at least give this some legitimacy to the characters is the abuse of Lacey and the MC. Those somewhat reasonably explain their actions (somewhat). Whether the brain damage is true or just a writing issue, who knows... but if we accept the story as it is trying to be honest to what is written, Lacey can be reasoned for her misguided attempts at trying to reconcile and the MC can be reasoned why he puts up with it all.

Will it though? Will there finally be some points where things start to come together to this end? Who knows, it could all continue as it is, turn to garbage and end up being some horrible story where nothing gets resolved, or worse... it follows a standard NTR story result where the MC is the butt of the joke with a demoralized ending. It is possible, but as I said... the seeds for a redemption story are already there as opposed to a complete re-write to excuse Lacey and company that was suggested.

LOL, I hear you. The logic of Lacey in her solutions are beyond retarded, they are porn logic, or... the logic of someone who is so corrupted and infested with abusive sexual deviance that it is all she knows and so it is her "solution" to everything. You know the saying "When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail" and I think that can explain why Lacey proposes these stupid solutions. You see it in everything she has done, every choice she makes is always some odd messed up "abused" way to solve the issues, not something a normal healthy person would do.

Heck, the MC even points this out. All she has to do to fix this is stop being a whore, stop trying to use "Lacey" solutions to fix things. Just be a good devoted wife and the MC will heal over time. He is committed, whether we agree with him or not, he is in for the long haul due to his abuse. He won't quit on her for the most part (though there are hints of him considering and even starting an action to it before he is ganged up by others who keep pushing him back).

You are right though, we don't fully know about everything that occurred and if Lacey was honest about all of it. It could be as you say, but we don't know and this comes down to how the author wants to view it. All of the "mystery" may just be inconsistencies, or... they may be there to keep you in doubt. We don't know... time will tell.

She has done nothing of note, just words, proclaimed acts of trying to fix herself (ie therapist), and a lot of "plans" that she thinks will fix everything. In some way, you can say that is her acts of redemption, but as I said, this is still in denial, still not seeing the issues and so she will have to come to that understanding, but will she?

The whole "love experiment" is garbage, but it fits in with Lacey logic. The MC doesn't want it, he has said it multiple times he doesn't want this, but she pushes... why? Well, if we accept it as "honest" in her intent, then it is more Lacey dumb logic that will backfire, or... there is the other angle... this is Lacey corrupting the MC for her own purpose. I am not sure about the latter as there are numerous points in the story that seem to cause issues with that conclusion, but who knows... There are varying opinions on this with people on different sides as it concerns Lacey's true motives. We will see...

Right now though, Lacey is a liar, a cheat, and manipulator. Mia is exactly the same, even worse. All the women are enablers of Lacey and support her for their own selfish reasons. The proposed solutions won't fix the MC, but will make things worse if this is a true redemption story, but maybe it gets worse before it gets better?

If this isn't a redemption story and is just some Hodge podge of inconsistencies, that will be disappointing, but... the ride to that result should still be entertaining, providing the MC still retains some sort of dignity. If the professor starts cucking him constantly, excusing all attacks on him and continues to leave the offending parties (Lacey, Mia, the women) in some sort of limbo of never having to accept responsibility, that will be unfortunate and depending on how bad that gets... some of us may jump ship.

So far, I am willing to ride it out (for now) to see what the professor does. I "hope" the story changes to give some agency to the MC and some responsibility to the offenders, but I am not holding my breath. The story is at a stage where it can begin that route at least (with some major train wrecks along the way I am sure), so we will see in time.

I just replayed the game and frankly I have started to have a more detailed vision of where this might be leading, on the slut path I think the MC is going to basically run a porn empire, just like the bad guys want to do, built around Lacey. Basically she'll be a porn actress and fuck people on set, while the MC is going to run the business and fuck his harem of girls. It will be a bitter sweet ending where they are still married, still in love, effectively in a open relationship, having overcome their jealousy and using the porn to sort of keep Lacey more pacified. They'll effectively just give up trying to keep their relationship under control and just go with the flow, no matter how their relationship might grow weaker due to the inevitable distance growing between them.

One thing I noted is like you said, I believe Lacey is trying to corrupt the MC, she thinks at one point to herself how he isn't ready to face her other self, but their are implication its something that she believe could be happening in the future, so its sounds like she think he is undergoing a process that would enable him to live with whatever 'her other self' is supposed to be. Its possible that its her unstated goal all along, break him down until he is corrupted enough for her to be able to go back to some degree to what she was in College, I mean when you consider some of her 'Dark Fantasies' stated one of reenacting the 3 weeks with Isaac, but with him and the other I forgot, but its in a similar vibe, its clear she want him to treat her like a slut, Hell, if you read the walkthrough she get bonus love points on the Slut Path, so yea that is what she want, to return to being a slut, his slut but a slut none the less, she is trying to break him down into accepting that, accepting to let her be a slut, likely abandoning their 'normal' life in favor of living a more depraved lifestyle, which goes again into why I think at least on the Slut Path at the end they are going to go into the business of porn, between her that is going to be an actress Veronika reopening her OnlyFans under the control of the MC, its obvious their is a subtext of heading toward a porn career for the group.

As for the punishment path, it might be something less like porn and more like a sex club or something, getting into a BDSM lifestyle with the MC as her Dom (while in truth she is going to be the one in control), so she'll effectively manipulate him being into commanding her to sleep with other people of his choice, like she mentioned that she'd fuck anyone he'd ask. So to give him a false sense of control over her, while achieving her own depraved goals of returning to a more sluttish life. So again corrupting him so he'll be capable of accepting her 'other self' which is likely in actuality her 'true' self, the one she became in College, rather than the tone down pretense she had to embrace since returning to him for the sake of not scaring him away, after all she also said she'd lie to him and say and do anything to get him back, so pretending to be a good wife, while secretly being a slut that aspire to be freed from the pretense, so she is working on turning her husband into someone that would be capable of accepting her as she became in College.

I assume the Vanilla Path would be basically the path where she failed to corrupt her husband and has to keep her other self permanently repressed. Having to accept to live a lie rather than lose him. So at the end its going to be them being together while he still has his girls on the side, not a satisfying ending for her, but better for him likely. I mean she clearly stated that even if she fell out of love with him she would still stay with him because she owes him too much. So yea either three of the paths would lead to a bitter sweet ending that would likely leave their relationship variably weaker, but no matter what she wouldn't leave him because of that debt she feel she owes him.