VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Pugthulhu]

Actually, I'll also expand on my experience a little.
I was definitely not the norm.
I said I started college in June after graduation. That is not entirely true.
I actually started college between my Junior and Senior years of high school. During that summer I lived in the dorms and took college classes. I was able to use those college credits and high school credits and take more electives my Senior year of high school. I didn't mention this before because this is way out of the norm. The college I went to had a special program that allowed this and we had stricter rules and more supervision because we were underage.

 

[Pugthulhu]

As for the timeline I think the timeline you made is what will happen with 99% of high school students and statistically its common enough to assume it in the story.
However, lets say that there was some high school intervention that we don't know because the MC didn't know.
While it's unbelievable that they would have left her in her home environment. There could have been counsellors in her high school that fast tracked her into college to get her out of her home asap.

 

[Maviarab]

Actually, I'll also expand on my experience a little.
I was definitely not the norm.
I said I started college in June after graduation. That is not entirely true.
I actually started college between my Junior and Senior years of high school. During that summer I lived in the dorms and took college classes. I was able to use those college credits and high school credits and take more electives my Senior year of high school. I didn't mention this before because this is way out of the norm. The college I went to had a special program that allowed this and we had stricter rules and more supervision because we were underage.

So based on your last 2 posts regarding this...it is 'safe to assume'...Lacey was not in some special program, she was not in Texas...and like 'most students', she started in the fall...which is exactly what I have.

So there is a serious gap between prom...her leaving...and when college would nornmally start (fall as we agree). Until the prof gives more detail on this (very unlikely), I think we can say the way I have it (currently)...is correct, as it would be for most western students and term times yes?

So, it's either a serious writing issue (would he really get that so wrong?) or....Lacey was....somewhere...because it's really one or the other isn't it. I would say it's disingenious to apply non-standard practices here? (where possible, given what actually happens in college would never really happen as you have already stated heh).

Interesting to hear your own particular experience though.

As for the timeline I think the timeline you made is what will happen with 99% of high school students and statistically its common enough to assume it in the story.
However, lets say that there was some high school intervention that we don't know because the MC didn't know.
While it's unbelievable that they would have left her in her home environment. There could have been counsellors in her high school that fast tracked her into college to get her out of her home asap.

Heh...you beat me to it lol. Yes I suppose if she told them of her circumstances...said she desperately needed a way out...it's possible I admit yes but that is not what has been presented to us, or what she has herself said.

______
On all the above also....using real dates, timelines etc...which as I have mentioned previously, the prof in a way asks us to analyse this story, he gives so many referances to real world events....that the way I currently have my timeline (and I'm sure you read my 'notes' also).....it currently, all fits nicely with a pretty bow on top. As per my original post (with it attached), there were really only 2 specific instances that 'had to be changed' to make it all fit.

Everything else fits seamlessly...but I will admit, it did take weeks of going through the script and replaying the VN...to actually piece it all together and yes, a lot of that could be down to the prof being 'very loose' with his own timeline and not thinking the likes of msyelf, Crysus, DF and others to deconstruct it so much heh.

So I suppose ultimately, it all comes down to how much is bad writing (I worked with) or how much is pure intentional ambiguity on the part of the professor and/or...the MC being a bad narrator (as warned at the start of the story)?

 

[Pugthulhu]

So based on your last 2 posts regarding this...it is 'safe to assume'...Lacey was not in some special program, she was not in Texas...and like 'most students', she started in the fall...which is exactly what I have.

So there is a serious gap between prom...her leaving...and when college would nornmally start (fall as we agree). Until the prof gives more detail on this (very unlikely), I think we can say the way I have it (currently)...is correct, as it would be for most western students and term times yes?

So, it's either a serious writing issue (would he really get that so wrong?) or....Lacey was....somewhere...because it's really one or the other isn't it. I would say it's disingenious to apply non-standard practices here? (where possible, given what actually happens in college would never really happen as you have already stated heh).

Interesting to hear your own particular experience though.


Heh...you beat me to it lol. Yes I suppose if she told them of her circumstances...said she desperately needed a way out...it's possible I admit yes but that is not what has been presented to us, or what she has herself said.

First a quick question. Do you know where Prof. Amethyst is located? I was thinking the states, because most developers outside the states don't use American Football in their stories.

Second. I think the gap was probably not intended and can be chalked up to just an abbreviated setup.

Third, heck most of the stuff we've been discussing is stuff that has not been presented to us.

 

[Pugthulhu]

Don't discuss other games in a games thread. Is rule 4 in the rules thread. Mods take a dim view of this. Happy to discuss in PM though.

Sorry, newbie mistake. It is deleted. Please remove from your quote for me.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

or....Lacey was....somewhere...because it's really one or the other isn't it.

I just had a dark thought/theory for this time gap that i don’t think was discussed before…

unlikely, but what if she had gotten knocked up by her father? (We don’t have specificity on the type if abuse for obvious reasons)
and she took off so abruptly after prom to figure out what she was going to do/get away from her father ASAP/get it taken care of and recover before university

this could in theory lessen the sting of abandonment in the prologue, as maybe she wasn’t leaving MC per se, but just couldn’t let him see her like that, and despite all his efforts he ended up failing to protect her from the worst event, and everything else we have been told was to spare MC’s feeling

could also lead into her first contact with ket, developing a pain management problem after the abortion procedure and she took what she could get

also validates the suicides attempts

 

[Maviarab]

I just had a dark thought/theory for this time gap that i don’t think was discussed before…

unlikely, but what if she had gotten knocked up by her father? (We don’t have specificity on the type if abuse for obvious reasons)
and she took off so abruptly after prom to get it taken care of and recover before university

this could in theory lessen the sting of abandonment in the prologue, as maybe she wasn’t leaving MC per se, but just couldn’t let him see her like that, and despite all his efforts he ended up failing to protect her from the worst event

could also lead into her first contact with ket, developing a pain management problem after the abortion procedure and she took what she could get

also validates the suicides attempts

Well we know when she first took Ket. Even I'm willing to believe her there (I SAID IT DF...PUT IN YOUR DIARY...BOOKMARK THE POST lmao)...though she could be lying about that too pmsl...sorry...sorry....

However, the rest of it....no, that has not been brought up before and is just as viable as any other theory we've cobbled together at times to try and make sense of things...

Hmmm...

 

[Pugthulhu]

Well we know when she first took Ket. Even I'm willing to believe her there (I SAID IT DF...PUT IN YOUR DIARY...BOOKMARK THE POST lmao)...though she could be lying about that too pmsl...sorry...sorry....

However, the rest of it....no, that has not been brought up before and is just as viable as any other theory we've cobbled together at times to try and make sense of things...

Hmmm...

I was almost certain there is a line that mentions sexual abuse from that time. Am I not remembering this correctly?

 

[Maviarab]

I was almost certain there is a line that mentions sexual abuse from that time. Am I not remembering this correctly?

You are, nothing is ever explcitly stated by either her or the MC, but there is a lot implied and alluded to...but nothing concrete at all...and this probably by design for content...more than ambiguity (though being ambigious also helps I suppose).

Even in a story, alluding to certain child abuses is usually pretty much a no no in media isn't it so believe it was all left vague intentionally. All we can do is guess at what exactly was being done to her.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Well we know when she first took Ket. Even I'm willing to believe her there (I SAID IT DF...PUT IN YOUR DIARY...BOOKMARK THE POST lmao)...though she could be lying about that too pmsl...sorry...sorry....

However, the rest of it....no, that has not been brought up before and is just as viable as any other theory we've cobbled together at times to try and make sense of things...

Hmmm...

I wasn’t saying that the started with ket then, but pain meds, found a dealer, but then eventually switched according to the timeline how we know it, taking ket not just due to trauma and struggling in isolation, but maybe also due to depression that often comes as an aftereffect of an abortion

 

[Maviarab]

I wasn’t saying that the started with ket then, but pain meds, found a dealer, but then eventually switched according to the timeline how we know it, taking ket not just due to trauma and struggling in isolation, but maybe also due to depression that often comes as an aftereffect of an abortion

Ahhhhhh right, sorry, understand you now. Sure...it could certainly work....and the 'pregnancy/abortion' angle has been bandied around plenty of times before....just 'during college'...not before it....

 

[Pugthulhu]

You are, nothing is ever explcitly stated by either her or the MC, but there is a lot implied and alluded to...but nothing concrete at all...and this probably by design for content...more than ambiguity (though being ambigious also helps I suppose).

Even in a story, alluding to certain child abuses is usually pretty much a no no in media isn't it so believe it was all left vague intentionally. All we can do is guess at what exactly was being done to her.

Ok, I found it.
When MC went to Lacey's work with pizzas and discovered that it was all a lie and she had been spending all the time with Jared. After this was the box talk, where the MC broke down the 5 boxes.
Lacey's response:
The box of abandonment
You know who I was
You know what I went through.
You had to know how much you meant to me.
But I was a very broken teenage girl.
Every time I thought of kissing you or any kind of intimacy with you.
all of my pain and suffering would cloud my mind.
I would see my mother's cold cruelty.
I would see my father's physical and sexual abuse.
I couldn't just see you.

 

[DeviantFun]

The most unbelievable part of this game is Lacey graduating. I didn't know any girl in college that fell into drugs/alcohol/sex that graduated. Based on your timeline I'm not sure she would realistically make it through her Sophomore year with the drinking and especially the suicide attempts. She hadn't met Mia yet so how did that go? If she's a student and attempting suicide she is going into counselling right then or she is out of school at best. At worst she is expelled.

As I constantly bring up...her brain damage and constant state of being either high or binge drinking (in college)...never seemingly stopped her from studying, graduating...never affects her job...her friendships....just the MC

This was another big one for me, we know she was a pretty good student before meeting Mia (she started K just before).

But how can we deal with the memory issues, I know US colleges are easier than unis in my country (by the simple fact that you don't have to study 3/4 1000 pages books almost by memory for each exam which is not great as a learning tool), and you can get by with reports and tests (which we know she didn't study for sometimes, which would be an automatic fail over here).

I mean she did an art degree, which could be less theorethical and more practical, but the girl can't remember one year of her life (she says, even if she remembers a lot) how could she make it?

She could have sort of a lower GPA and graduated with the minimum.

First a quick question. Do you know where Prof. Amethyst is located? I was thinking the states, because most developers outside the states don't use American Football in their stories.

Second. I think the gap was probably not intended and can be chalked up to just an abbreviated setup.

Third, heck most of the stuff we've been discussing is stuff that has not been presented to us.

States it seems, but NFL fans are not completely uncommon even outside of the states, I am one for example.

I just had a dark thought/theory for this time gap that i don’t think was discussed before…

unlikely, but what if she had gotten knocked up by her father? (We don’t have specificity on the type if abuse for obvious reasons)
and she took off so abruptly after prom to get it taken care of and recover before university

this could in theory lessen the sting of abandonment in the prologue, as maybe she wasn’t leaving MC per se, but just couldn’t let him see her like that, and despite all his efforts he ended up failing to protect her from the worst event

could also lead into her first contact with ket, developing a pain management problem after the abortion procedure and she took what she could get

also validates the suicides attempts

It does but that should have come out sooner, Mia doesn't know, nobody knows.

She was a virgin until Stephen, even if the prof uses (correctly imo but this is a moral issue more than a technical one for me) the term virgin for rape victims (see: Mia).
I don't know if it is a mistake in the writing or a deliberate choice tho.

I don't think it fits the theme btw, like considering the parties essentially gangrapes doesn't (to me they are).

Well we know when she first took Ket. Even I'm willing to believe her there (I SAID IT DF...PUT IN YOUR DIARY...BOOKMARK THE POST lmao)...though she could be lying about that too pmsl...sorry...sorry....

Duly noted! You will come around eventually.

I was almost certain there is a line that mentions sexual abuse from that time. Am I not remembering this correctly?

You are, nothing is ever explcitly stated by either her or the MC, but there is a lot implied and alluded to...but nothing concrete at all...and this probably by design for content...more than ambiguity (though being ambigious also helps I suppose).

Even in a story, alluding to certain child abuses is usually pretty much a no no in media isn't it so believe it was all left vague intentionally. All we can do is guess at what exactly was being done to her.

Not so vague.

act 1
L "I would see my father's physical and sexual abuse."

act 2
L "Or someone like me? Who was mentally, physically and sexually abused growing up."

The acts are not specified, thankfully.

Edit:

Ok, I found it.
When MC went to Lacey's work with pizzas and discovered that it was all a lie and she had been spending all the time with Jared. After this was the box talk, where the MC broke down the 5 boxes.
Lacey's response:
The box of abandonment
You know who I was
You know what I went through.
You had to know how much you meant to me.
But I was a very broken teenage girl.
Every time I thought of kissing you or any kind of intimacy with you.
all of my pain and suffering would cloud my mind.
I would see my mother's cold cruelty.
I would see my father's physical and sexual abuse.
I couldn't just see you.

Ah you beat me to it.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Ok, I found it.
When MC went to Lacey's work with pizzas and discovered that it was all a lie and she had been spending all the time with Jared. After this was the box talk, where the MC broke down the 5 boxes.
Lacey's response:
The box of abandonment
You know who I was
You know what I went through.
You had to know how much you meant to me.
But I was a very broken teenage girl.
Every time I thought of kissing you or any kind of intimacy with you.
all of my pain and suffering would cloud my mind.
I would see my mother's cold cruelty.
I would see my father's physical and sexual abuse.
I couldn't just see you.

DeviantFun someone is coming for your crown

 

[DeviantFun]

DeviantFun someone is coming for your crown

If that entails another ally to keep the heathens at bay I will gladly SHARE the throne.

 

[Maviarab]

The acts are not specified, thankfully.

This is what I meant. We have no idea exactly what that entails and how.

Just groping her would be SA and extrmely traumatic for a child. He may never have touched her sexually but he made her do things to him? When she says she was a virgin before Stephen with a 'ph'...that could be genuine for all we know, and not in the Mia perspective.

 

[Pugthulhu]

I think it really comes down to this.
This is the author's story and he will get as complex as he wants to get.
Yes, there will be secrets and reveals in the story.
However, how complex do we think this is going to get? I personally am trying to put way more complexity into FV/Barty to make things make sense that were probably just a writing issue.
I think this like I think in real life that the more complex the theory and lies the less likely it's true.
I think, How many factors would there need to be for this to be true.
For Lacey's therapy, there are to many factors for it not to have truth. To many people know about it and would ask about it. She said she is also taking anti-depressants. I'm sure the MC would know whether or not she is picking up a prescription and keeping it at the house.
Now should could have dropped out of therapy after she started. I could see that as being far more likely because at this point when everyone is assuming she is going there are not as many factors yet.
This holds true for several of the theories.
All of this with the caveat that the author can write in what every reality he wants without any description of how it was able to happen, but do you think he would.

Now, I want to discuss something that has not come up, but is something I have personal experience with and could be a reason she would stop going to therapy. That being sexual addiction.
Many years ago I dated a girl who was a recovering sexual addict. She had worked in happy ending massage parlors. She had a failed marriage that ended because no matter what she did she could not stop cheating. We talked and got together for the better part of a year and she ended it because she said if she were to let it go further she would not be able to keep from hurting me.
Ok enough of that part. However, when we met and she opened up with her life she was just starting her recovery and going to therapy. The most important part of her therapy was abstinence. She could not have any sexual contact until she got to a certain point in her recovery that she could start having a healthy sexual relationship.
It would be hard to believe that any therapist would not hear Lacey's story and talk to her about a sex addiction. How would she respond to being told she had to be completely abstinent at a time when her husband is coming out of an abstinent time of his life and starting to learn the joys of intimancy?

 

[Pugthulhu]

This is what I meant. We have no idea exactly what that entails and how.

Just groping her would be SA and extrmely traumatic for a child. He may never have touched her sexually but he made her do things to him? When she says she was a virgin before Stephen with a 'ph'...that could be genuine for all we know, and not in the Mia perspective.

Considering Mia's past and that she still considers herself a virgin, I don't think there is any reason why even if Lacey's abuse went to the worst steps and Mia knew about it she wouldn't still consider Stephen as Lacey's first.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

It would be hard to believe that any therapist would not hear Lacey's story and talk to her about a sex addiction. How would she respond to being told she had to be completely abstinent at a time when her husband is coming out of an abstinent time of his life and starting to learn the joys of intimancy?

She would tell him to have sex with her friends

 

[Maviarab]

Considering Mia's past and that she still considers herself a virgin, I don't think there is any reason why even if Lacey's abuse went to the worst steps and Mia knew about it she wouldn't still consider Stephen as Lacey's first.

Mia doesn't know though. Quite clearly stated Lacey didn't tell her anything of any value.