VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Avaron1974]

which is the reveal that she never loved MC.

This is my only "nitpick" part.

Is that really a reveal?

I did say it in a post previous but it's been obvious for a while she's never loved him. She equates him to a safe space in her life and is using him for that.

She's never known love, not as a child, not growing up and not reaching adulthood. How can she love someone when she's never understood what that is?

Someone else earlier said it better. She came up with this whole story of her attaching herself to a big whale shark or whatever it was (it's been a minute) in a symbiotic relationship except it isn't. She's more like a parasite living off the host but providing no benefit at all.

She's brought nothing to his life except misery and mental health problems. There is no partnership, they are not equals.

Chapter 3 didn't reveal anything, it did clarify a few things though.

Sorry for repeating but i'm gonna throw the disconnect in here again. We all know what the devs plan was. Lacey, MC and his harem. That's not what is happening though.

I don't know if the dev changed his mind along the way and decided to go with a more traditional NTR game instead of the dramatic romance it started as.

Only reason I say that is because after this chapter, there is no . way . at . all the relationship with MC and Lacey will ever work.

Prof is now throwing in conspiracies and all Lacey's ex's.

Things like that would put strain on the strongest relationship. They barely have a relationship at all. They certainly don't have the united front needed to survive groups of people threatening their relationship.

She doesn't even have basic respect for the MC to build any sort of love onto.

They don't even have the backing of a strong friend group.

With the corner the prof has wrote the story into, even with my brain full of bullshit, I cannot see how prof intends to get from this absolute clusterfuck abomination of a marriage to the place he originally intended to take it.

Unless " a Wizard did it" is a legit excuse.

The one thing that shall be my hill to die on ..... well, not die but i'd risk a slight bruise as long is it didn't hurt ..... is that Lacey can never love the MC because she doesn't know what love is. The only emotion Lacey is versed in is self pity.

 

[DeviantFun]

Replying in this way is a mess, I'll try anyway.

You are getting things wrong here, and also making some personal assumptions..... see notes


[Reply] it is never stated "she wanted them to care for her"...just her wanting acknowledgment that they were using her and never cared about her or what she was going threw, there is a big difference between those two. You are just injecting personal perception here.

I am inserting words and dialogue lines from the material, if she did not want emotional attachments or connections, why would she care? So they had sex with her and sex is all she cared about (not for the sex itself but lets not get into that right now), did she ever do any of the things she asks of them or just spread her legs?
It is also stated quite a few times how she actually enjoyed herself, with both Stephen and Lorenzo (with Isaac we talk about connections and most of the description of the sex was gruesome).

If you do not care about them as she proudly stated often (Isaac excluded) why would they care about her? Do you see the problem here? Or it was supposed to be a one way street like with MC?

[Reply] agreed, but this is another example of mia not being on the same page as lacey back in those days (there are earlier examples of how both percieved things very differently that whole junior year) and just being "nicer than the others" is very different than treating her nicely. In fact, it is never stated her treated her badly, just that they both had very different views of what their time together ment individually.

I quoted both Mia AND Lacey, and I agree Mia and Lacey do have quite different recounts of the past, Mia looking at what was happening from the outside but not asking what was happening on the inside.

[Reply] you are getting things wrong here.i don't recall it ever being stated mia never saw her use k at all during that period (unless it is and i missed it) In fact in earlier chapters it is confirmed she started using alcohol and k before even before her junior year, and junior year is when stephen happened, so naturally she was using during this time....

This is an excerpt from the discussion about stephen after he took her virginity:
M "So, I didn't even know she was on that stuff at first."
M "I can't really tell you when that started or how much she was doing."
M "I know when she started partying all the time she was taking a LOT."

And there is no indication or suggestion that Mia saw Stephen take any, while living there.
She gets aware later, at an undisclosed time, closer to phase 3.

[Reply] Again, it is never stated that she "yearned for him to ask her out" just that he didn't care about her, and if he did he would have done those things. You are just injecting personal perception here.

No, if Lacey did not care, why should they care? Again, does it have to be a one way street? If your answer is yes then ok I agree with you.
Do you think they owe her something because they had sex?

This is a very Lacey centric view, she might think so, but why should they?

So either she wanted those things or why would she feel entitled to them?

You see how it is a narrative tool?

How this:
M "Everyone else demands closure from you."
M "It was your turn to get the closure you needed."
M "You needed to hear what they really thought of you back then."

Makes little sense?

[Reply] this is kinda true, but you are percieving things different than what the story states.
she stated they did have a connection of sorts, and she did care for him/ment something to her in a weird twisted way, but never loved him. Her wanting to leave with him was stated to be her kinda giving up thinking this is the best it would get for her/all she was ever going to be in her broken state at that moment.

No it was to leave the past behind and never have to look back, MC included.

L "Because..."
L "A small part of me..."
L "Was tempted to go with him."
L "And start a new life."
MC "Without me?"
L "Without you."

IS "I think part of you wanted to go with me."
IS "To start a whole new life and leave your shitty past behind you."
IS "That's why you kept things going for as long as you did."
IS "You wanted a taste of that future."
IS "A future that didn't have your fucked up childhood in it."
IS "A future that didn't have that boy you say you loved in it."
IS "So, you could forget it all."
L "For a very short time, I was tempted."
L "A part of me did want to leave everything behind."

I never stated that Lacey loved Isaac, I do not knowwhy you are twisting my post , she is fully aware at the start that he sort of used her, but their connection was genuine, extremely unhealthy but genuine.

L "We had a shared bond."
L "Two people who didn't know where they belonged and were trying to figure their lives out."
L "And we were... intimate with each other... quite a bit." (but wasn't the sex extremely bad? cit. act 1 / 2 / 3 + red bra)
L "Something like that naturally led to a connection of sorts between us."
L "Not a healthy one."

And look I get it, it could be that she is trying to have a moment to have closure on people that in her mind hurt her, but she was hurting herself they were just instrunents.

Or since they all wanted closure or reconnect with her she wants to have her own, but why she would want her own closure, did they mean anything? Or as it is explained in the burning they just represent a period of her college life, but it would be me making assumptions and I am all about the material!

 

[Sayora]

This is my only "nitpick" part.

Is that really a reveal?

I did say it in a post previous but it's been obvious for a while she's never loved him. She equates him to a safe space in her life and is using him for that.

She's never known love, not as a child, not growing up and not reaching adulthood. How can she love someone when she's never understood what that is?

Someone else earlier said it better. She came up with this whole story of her attaching herself to a big whale shark or whatever it was (it's been a minute) in a symbiotic relationship except it isn't. She's more like a parasite living off the host but providing no benefit at all.

She's brought nothing to his life except misery and mental health problems. There is no partnership, they are not equals.

Chapter 3 didn't reveal anything, it did clarify a few things though.

Sorry for repeating but i'm gonna throw the disconnect in here again. We all know what the devs plan was. Lacey, MC and his harem. That's not what is happening though.

I don't know if the dev changed his mind along the way and decided to go with a more traditional NTR game instead of the dramatic romance it started as.

Only reason I say that is because after this chapter, there is no . way . at . all the relationship with MC and Lacey will ever work.

Prof is now throwing in conspiracies and all Lacey's ex's.

Things like that would put strain on the strongest relationship. They barely have a relationship at all. They certainly don't have the united front needed to survive groups of people threatening their relationship.

She doesn't even have basic respect for the MC to build any sort of love onto.

They don't even have the backing of a strong friend group.

With the corner the prof has wrote the story into, even with my brain full of bullshit, I cannot see how prof intends to get from this absolute clusterfuck abomination of a marriage to the place he originally intended to take it.

Unless " a Wizard did it" is a legit excuse.

The one thing that shall be my hill to die on ..... well, not die but i'd risk a slight bruise as long is it didn't hurt ..... is that Lacey can never love the MC because she doesn't know what love is. The only emotion Lacey is versed in is self pity.

I've already expressed almost everything you've said, with the exception of the moments from Act 3, and I completely agree with you.
Regarding lacey's 'love', it's simple and didn't need Act 3 to prove it.
I can say with 100% certainty, based on lacey actions, that she doesn't love him and never has. The closest explanation is a painful dependency.

Romantic love implies several fundamental elements, and we observe none of these signs in her behavior.

However, the question remains, if the author is so partial to lacey, why did she explicitly point out the obvious deception in the relationship? As a working but rather dumb option, one could assume that the author's use of "love" simply implies affection.

And once again, I repeat, the author will not be able to pull off a good ending after everything he has piled up.

 

[Avaron1974]

And once again, I repeat, the author will not be able to pull off a good ending after everything he has piled up.

This, right here.

This has been my main point since part 2.

There is no way, and I mean no . way, the dev can pull off what he intended with how he's portrayed these characters.

The whole MC and his harem with Lacey as the instigator, it doesn't work with these characters.

He's pushed the MC into a corner where he either accepts everything is broken and walks away or accepts Lacey will never love him and stays in a dead end relationship that will eventually ruin him.

Therapy works when you want to build yourself up and make the right changes in your life. Therapy doesn't work if you keep yourself in the same situation that caused you to need that therapy to start with. It will be a vicious cycle. Lacey fucks up, MC's mental health suffers, he goes to therapy to feel better, he goes back to Lacey, Lacey fucks up rinse and repeat until death do us part.

The only constant in the MC's life, the only thing he can be sure of and the only thing that reliable about Lacey is she will fuck up. As soon as things calm down, she fucks up. The MC starts to feel better in himself, she fucks up. It happens to be a day ending in Y, she fucks up.

Throwing in conspiracies, people working against him to break them up and his own "friends" working against him ..... the dev has pushed them so far that even with the worlds best suspension of disbelief there is no way that relationship can survive.

It's barely surviving Lacey on her own with her constant fuck ups, it's got no chance of making it through a conspiracy.

In other games when we've seen people working against a relationship, even with the woman being shared with other men (2 I can think of being Deliverance and Exciting Games ... in both of those games, even if you pick the route to have the wife sleep with other men, both women show total devotion and love to their husband and do nothing without their okay). The relationships have all been solid with the only chance of failure being down to player choice and actively ruining the relationships yourself (although, even on the evil paths for Deliverance, the wife is still devoted to her husband. That never changes).

That foundation doesn't exist here. There is no trust between the MC and damn near all of the women. One guy managed to nearly break them up without even touching her. Just by using the most obvious manipulations and telling the MC he's going to fuck his wife he nearly tore them apart. An AI deepfake was enough to send the MC into a spiral because he doesn't trust her.

Now i'm expected to believe the MC and his "angels" will be able to combat a group intent on breaking them up.

I genuinely don't see it and i'm not saying this for effect or to be contrary to the devs intended goals but the way he's portrayed the characters and how flimsy the marriage and friendships are, I genuinely don't see any way for that relationship to survive.

I see exactly what the game has shown me but I just cannot see the devs intended destination. What he wants just doesn't work with these characters.

Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying it for what it is and i'm interested to see how he manages to get the characters to climb out of the pit he's wrote them into. I just don't see any connection between these characters and what the dev plans for them.

 

[kedewess]

come on, is there no hero able to release a public version ?

 

[DeviantFun]

This is my only "nitpick" part.

Is that really a reveal?

I did say it in a post previous but it's been obvious for a while she's never loved him. She equates him to a safe space in her life and is using him for that.

She's never known love, not as a child, not growing up and not reaching adulthood. How can she love someone when she's never understood what that is?

Someone else earlier said it better. She came up with this whole story of her attaching herself to a big whale shark or whatever it was (it's been a minute) in a symbiotic relationship except it isn't. She's more like a parasite living off the host but providing no benefit at all.

She's brought nothing to his life except misery and mental health problems. There is no partnership, they are not equals.

Chapter 3 didn't reveal anything, it did clarify a few things though.

Sorry for repeating but i'm gonna throw the disconnect in here again. We all know what the devs plan was. Lacey, MC and his harem. That's not what is happening though.

I don't know if the dev changed his mind along the way and decided to go with a more traditional NTR game instead of the dramatic romance it started as.

Only reason I say that is because after this chapter, there is no . way . at . all the relationship with MC and Lacey will ever work.

Prof is now throwing in conspiracies and all Lacey's ex's.

Things like that would put strain on the strongest relationship. They barely have a relationship at all. They certainly don't have the united front needed to survive groups of people threatening their relationship.

She doesn't even have basic respect for the MC to build any sort of love onto.

They don't even have the backing of a strong friend group.

With the corner the prof has wrote the story into, even with my brain full of bullshit, I cannot see how prof intends to get from this absolute clusterfuck abomination of a marriage to the place he originally intended to take it.

Unless " a Wizard did it" is a legit excuse.

The one thing that shall be my hill to die on ..... well, not die but i'd risk a slight bruise as long is it didn't hurt ..... is that Lacey can never love the MC because she doesn't know what love is. The only emotion Lacey is versed in is self pity.

I agree with all your points, but to me the reveal is not that she didn't love him, or at least that she admits that she was wrong in thinking that what she was feeling was love, the problem is that now we are supposed to believe that she learned to love him when she saw him again after the 4 years.

I always advocate for suspension of disbelief but this is a bit too much, what actually changed for Lacey in 4 years? Did she learn how to love by ghosting people and getting gangbanged? Was red bra the only thing that kept her from love?

So she either admits that she doesn't love him truly, and that her love is still a tainted concept RIGHT NOW, which would completely fit in how she behaves, or I really have an issue with "hey I came back and when you opened the door I discovered that I was healed and I can love now".

How can we accept this when she says that she cannot give anything to him that would be only theirs aside from her heart when it was a sort of a "love at first sight" situation?
This part should have been explored further and probably be pivotal in the act, instead we got Vegas.

Plus if you think about it, it really spoils act 1, there is nothing that MC could actually hold on to, and 90% of what Lacey told him about college and about her feeling is now bs, MC hears about it (in a fucking hotel hall in front of a weird stranger) and says nothing, it doesn't affect the conversations, he doesn't even think about it.

Same as hearing that Isaac pounded Lacey after they had the phone call at the cliffs.

So...yeah I get you but I cannot shake the feeling of missed opportunities and disappointment.

come on, is there no hero able to release a public version ?

I get your excitement, but this dev base patreon tier is literally 1 dollar and the public release is usually around a week after the patreon release.

I mean I get that this is f95zone and all, but it feels really crappy to fuck over someone who keeps this kind of pricing and releases.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Patreon subscription costs $1 if you are growing impatient, link in my signature

 

[funnythings3785]

Hmm... at times I kind of get the feeling that the "reader" of the story has become the MC.

This, right here.

This has been my main point since part 2.

There is no way, and I mean no . way, the dev can pull off what he intended with how he's portrayed these characters.

The whole MC and his harem with Lacey as the instigator, it doesn't work with these characters.

He's pushed the MC into a corner where he either accepts everything is broken and walks away or accepts Lacey will never love him and stays in a dead end relationship that will eventually ruin him.

Therapy works when you want to build yourself up and make the right changes in your life. Therapy doesn't work if you keep yourself in the same situation that caused you to need that therapy to start with. It will be a vicious cycle. Lacey fucks up, MC's mental health suffers, he goes to therapy to feel better, he goes back to Lacey, Lacey fucks up rinse and repeat until death do us part.

The only constant in the MC's life, the only thing he can be sure of and the only thing that reliable about Lacey is she will fuck up. As soon as things calm down, she fucks up. The MC starts to feel better in himself, she fucks up. It happens to be a day ending in Y, she fucks up.

Throwing in conspiracies, people working against him to break them up and his own "friends" working against him ..... the dev has pushed them so far that even with the worlds best suspension of disbelief there is no way that relationship can survive.

It's barely surviving Lacey on her own with her constant fuck ups, it's got no chance of making it through a conspiracy.

In other games when we've seen people working against a relationship, even with the woman being shared with other men (2 I can think of being Deliverance and Exciting Games ... in both of those games, even if you pick the route to have the wife sleep with other men, both women show total devotion and love to their husband and do nothing without their okay). The relationships have all been solid with the only chance of failure being down to player choice and actively ruining the relationships yourself (although, even on the evil paths for Deliverance, the wife is still devoted to her husband. That never changes).

That foundation doesn't exist here. There is no trust between the MC and damn near all of the women. One guy managed to nearly break them up without even touching her. Just by using the most obvious manipulations and telling the MC he's going to fuck his wife he nearly tore them apart. An AI deepfake was enough to send the MC into a spiral because he doesn't trust her.

Now i'm expected to believe the MC and his "angels" will be able to combat a group intent on breaking them up.

I genuinely don't see it and i'm not saying this for effect or to be contrary to the devs intended goals but the way he's portrayed the characters and how flimsy the marriage and friendships are, I genuinely don't see any way for that relationship to survive.

I see exactly what the game has shown me but I just cannot see the devs intended destination. What he wants just doesn't work with these characters.

Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying it for what it is and i'm interested to see how he manages to get the characters to climb out of the pit he's wrote them into. I just don't see any connection between these characters and what the dev plans for them.

Whoa whoa whoa now... you need to stop and consider one thing....

At least Lacey is feeling better about herself, has forgiven herself and is taking control of her own life!

/poke

 

[Avaron1974]

So...yeah I get you but I cannot shake the feeling of missed opportunities and disappointment.

I agree 100%.

There are far too many things that should have been handled differently and it seems we're all waiting for the MC to take his balls back out of Lacey's purse.

How can we accept this when she says that she cannot give anything to him that would be only theirs aside from her heart when it was a sort of a "love at first sight" situation?

And this, besides the whole not loving him thing, is the reason I can't see the relationship working nor the devs vision for how all this plays out.

The MC has gone all in on a relationship with a girl that he's held in his heart since childhood. Lacey barely has her big toe in the relationship and nothing else.

She would still rather give herself to other men than hold even a small part of herself back for him.

This is also why the whole conspiracy thing is overkill and going too far.

It's not needed.

Lacey is doing a good enough job of destroying their relationship on her own, she doesn't need any assistance. The house is already burning down, it doesn't need petrol throwing on it too.

I think the devs main oversight with adding all these people trying to break them is they aren't doing a bad thing. Splitting them up and forcing him to live for himself is the absolute best thing that could happen to him. Without Lacey around to break the fragile grasp he has left of his sanity, and in the words of a shitty one hit wonder from the 90's, things could only get better.

With the main antagonist of his life out of the way (and yes I do se Lacey as the antagonist here)...

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Whoa whoa whoa now... you need to stop and consider one thing....

At least Lacey is feeling better about herself, has forgiven herself and is taking control of her own life!

/poke

I forgot about that.

I'm glad she managed to forgive herself. It must have been so hard on the MC seeing her blame herself for all the times she'd taken a massive dump on his heart.

Knowing she's found it in herself to take control of her life makes it more meaningful and heartfelt when she keeps doing the same mistakes.

She's an angel really.

I was wrong about her. I see the error in my judgement.

I'm so glad the dev gave her that peace of mind.

 

[Kozel-san]

Patreon subscription costs $1 if you are growing impatient, link in my signature

Sorry, buddy, I'd like to, but we'll wait.

 

[Doomly]

Replying in this way is a mess, I'll try anyway.



I am inserting words and dialogue lines from the material, if she did not want emotional attachments or connections, why would she care? So they had sex with her and sex is all she cared about (not for the sex itself but lets not get into that right now), did she ever do any of the things she asks of them or just spread her legs?
It is also stated quite a few times how she actually enjoyed herself, with both Stephen and Lorenzo (with Isaac we talk about connections and most of the description of the sex was gruesome).

If you do not care about them as she proudly stated often (Isaac excluded) why would they care about her? Do you see the problem here? Or it was supposed to be a one way street like with MC?



I quoted both Mia AND Lacey, and I agree Mia and Lacey do have quite different recounts of the past, Mia looking at what was happening from the outside but not asking what was happening on the inside.



This is an excerpt from the discussion about stephen after he took her virginity:
M "So, I didn't even know she was on that stuff at first."
M "I can't really tell you when that started or how much she was doing."
M "I know when she started partying all the time she was taking a LOT."

And there is no indication or suggestion that Mia saw Stephen take any, while living there.
She gets aware later, at an undisclosed time, closer to phase 3.



No, if Lacey did not care, why should they care? Again, does it have to be a one way street? If your answer is yes then ok I agree with you.
Do you think they owe her something because they had sex?

This is a very Lacey centric view, she might think so, but why should they?

So either she wanted those things or why would she feel entitled to them?

You see how it is a narrative tool?



No it was to leave the past behind and never have to look back, MC included.

L "Because..."
L "A small part of me..."
L "Was tempted to go with him."
L "And start a new life."
MC "Without me?"
L "Without you."

IS "I think part of you wanted to go with me."
IS "To start a whole new life and leave your shitty past behind you."
IS "That's why you kept things going for as long as you did."
IS "You wanted a taste of that future."
IS "A future that didn't have your fucked up childhood in it."
IS "A future that didn't have that boy you say you loved in it."
IS "So, you could forget it all."
L "For a very short time, I was tempted."
L "A part of me did want to leave everything behind."

I never stated that Lacey loved Isaac, I do not knowwhy you are twisting my post , she is fully aware at the start that he sort of used her, but their connection was genuine, extremely unhealthy but genuine.

L "We had a shared bond."
L "Two people who didn't know where they belonged and were trying to figure their lives out."
L "And we were... intimate with each other... quite a bit." (but wasn't the sex extremely bad? cit. act 1 / 2 / 3 + red bra)
L "Something like that naturally led to a connection of sorts between us."
L "Not a healthy one."

And look I get it, it could be that she is trying to have a moment to have closure on people that in her mind hurt her, but she was hurting herself they were just instrunents.

Or since they all wanted closure or reconnect with her she wants to have her own, but why she would want her own closure, did they mean anything? Or as it is explained in the burning they just represent a period of her college life, but it would be me making assumptions and I am all about the material!

Yeah it was bad formatting for responding to admittedly, i am rather busy and traveling right now and only have mobile. I agree with some of what you are saying, just don't have the time to pull all the game quotes i would like right now. I will respond to all of this tomorrow, but just wanted to leave you with a small tidbit that i don't think anyone has realized yet....

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[DeviantFun]

Yeah it was bad formatting for responding to admittedly, i am rather busy and traveling right now and only have mobile. I agree with some of what you are saying, just don't have the time to pull all the game quotes i would like right now. I will respond to all of this tomorrow, but just wanted to leave you with a small tidbit that i don't think anyone has realized yet....

Spoiler: Spoiler

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Amazing point! Good job Doomly!

Btw if it is easier just drop me a line on discord.

 

[NewGuy2022]

I know the solution.

Let's recall the classic - 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'.

best way 'solve' all problems lobotomy for Mc.

Honestly, I was thinking this yesterday (not the movie, but I get the clever reference). I wasn't thinking about

Spoiler

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Then I realized that would be a happy end for the MC and the developer never would give us that. Since this is an NTR story the reader is supposed to feel hurt, cheated, and angry.

Lacey didn't NTR the MC; the developer NTR'd the reader. And he continues to with each update.

Apparently "letting go" means the dastardly MC must let go of his own identity and self-respect and instead become whatever Lacey wants because... ...Lacey is the only one who matters in this kinetic story.

I quoted both Mia AND Lacey, and I agree Mia and Lacey do have quite different recounts of the past, Mia looking at what was happening from the outside but not asking what was happening on the inside.

Hell, at this point even Lacey and Lacey have different recounts of the past (Act 1 v. Act 2 v. Act 3).

I quoted both Mia AND Lacey, and I agree Mia and Lacey do have quite different recounts of the past, Mia looking at what was happening from the outside but not asking what was happening on the inside.

I'm confused; did Lacey ever love the MC? I thought the latest take is that she never loved him? And, as for Anna, after Vegas I'm not convinced she loves him now.... ...and if any of the girls actually love him after what they continue to do to him, I'd hate to be loved.

I thought the developer told us the threesome would be lopsided in favor of the MC (or am I misremembering). Was the Vegas threesome really in the MC's favor?

As for the MC's harem, I guess it's a harem of guys to service Lacey and the MC is the stablemaster. That makes the harem "his", right?

Finally, I'm beginning to think the whole "MC must not leave or harm himself because Lacey would kill herself" is just another hook to keep the MC trapped in this poisonous situation. Lacey the parasite would just move on to the next available host and suck the life out of him instead. Sadly, the girls are "in" on the scam, too.

I know I'm being unreasonable but at this point I'm just searching for one character in this novel (just one) that I can feel good about pulling for. There is not one. Each new act just piles on more characters to loathe.

 

[Lady Lydia]

For those that don't know how this game could have a positive ending, you'd be surprised, their is a trope specifically for that, 'United We Stand', Act 6 the Prof is going to pull some major threat they'll only be able to beat by having the characters overcome their issues and work together to defeat, in the process of doing so they'll get over their differences and learn how to live together happily. Its the only way any positive outcome could be realistically achieved, bring in a last Act trope to magic fix their issues, is it going to feel artificial? Yes, forcing cohesion under duress takes alot of skills to properly be set up and I have significant doubts the Prof have the skills to properly set it up.

Considering all things I suspect its going to be something supernatural, that would be the sort of things that would help overcoming their issues alright, having fucking demons trying to kill them. Otherwise they'll discover the porn empire plot involve far more powerful individuals which have significantly more ways than expected to ruin their lives, possibly like getting everyone of them fired from their jobs and having them blacklisted from work. I'll admit the second is more likely to be the case but the other games by the Prof makes me inclined to expect the first.

 

[drawmeacrumble]

Some other people have answered my post. I'll try to get back to them but these posts take time, man... and I don't have that much time on my hands. So please bear with me. Chances are I won't be able to anyway but who knows.

There are several ways to do things narratively, and it cannot always resort to "corrupting friend" -> "torture MC for no reason" -> "oh wait but the friend actually had good intentions" (reminds you of any specific L&J moments?).
You want MC to have an epiphany? maybe do not write a carbon copy of a previous act and instead focus on reflection, instrospection and mental health.

Do you realize how much poignant and hard hitting would the day would have been if the night after the anniversary dinner MC had nightmares all night and left? Wallowing in his despair? A PTSD episode? With finally the others having to show that they care a lick for him instead of the trite, rehashed and frankly over the top stuff we got?

You need to drink a jug of copium and inject a severe dose of suspension of disbelief if you accept that a TOTAL STRANGER would be ok in showing such behaviour, the situation is grotesque and surreal.
Abby is nobody to these people, she saw them for a couple of hours, they accept to be roofied, they accept to steal 8k of MC money, Mia accepts to do bets (on a trip where she got invited and paid for) ON HER BEST FRIEND ANNIVERSARY.

I am sorry but at some point you need to realize that your writing is going off the rails and pull it back.

The whole Vegas arc is badly written, from start to finish, and we have yet another unlikeable and severely disgusting character running around and treated as a friend (Mia2), heck MC apologizes to HER.

This has several consequences: Lacey cheated on MC again, Jeanette is now unlikeable and Mia...well she is Mia, the character was ruined since act 1.

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Lacey is always concerned that MC will cheat and leave her, she expressed concern also when he was about to get the nude massage.
Funnily enough, to the attentive reader who remembers the day before, that scene looks ridicolous, she is not remorseful in the slightest, she is having fun with her friends in the pool with her husband doing stuff that he is forced to do because he has the agency and force of will of a fallen leaf.

The problem with this day is that we already had it, we already had the transactional do ut des with JD and KW, and guess what KW was? you got it! A failed day (to which Lacey promised to make up for but....) where MC choses nothing and goes along with everything without making a single choice (aside whom to sleep with, but even that is forced by Lacey).

It is just derivative of what we have already seen and frankly, again, needs to be reeled in to actually feel relatable and believable again, Mc gets roofied (all fine and dandy folks! it is a completely socially acceptable behaviour), sent to a stage to dance naked against his will (have you ever seen someone take off normal clothes on stage? they look ridicolous), has to spend time with a sex worker he doesn't want to spend time with and has to take a massage which he did not want to take.

I am wondering why do you think it would be out of character for Mc to do some extracurriculars, he has been doing them since act 1.

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And...you think that he stripping naked in front of some women (and putting his job/reputation at risk) is...empowering?
There are several way to show this and MC has not been receptive to any until now, how many women desire him at home? How many close friends actually want him? But sure a bunch of drunk strangers will surely boost his confidence!

If I was any of his LIs I would find it depressing and offensive.

Honestly it was a tragedy of a scene, notwithstanding the fact that as a drug virgin the effects can be extremely scary when in unfamiliar places at the center of attention (also Ex does not work like that AT ALL).

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No it would not been out of character for him to be angry at Abby, MC helps and has a soft spot for people in need, Abby doesn't need anything he did her little experiment for fun and for her book, which is even more of an insult.

If Isaac was not broken, MC would have sent him packing, like he already did.

If Christine was not being deceived and was remorseful, he was ready to eat her alive.

MC knows full well how to stand up for himself against strangers and people that put his relationship in jeopardy, I suggest you go back and check both act 1 and 2.

What we are reading now is an exaggeration of his behaviour so that we could have the "epyphany" you mentioned AND add another character that can take the role of Mia since Mia is a failed concept and any more pushing would really send her to the deep end (which she already is anyway even if you don't add the stuff that happens in act 3).

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There has to be a limit, this time it was completely trespassed.
And I am the first that ask for suspension of disbelief in AVNs.

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No, their behaviour does not fall on Abby, as per Lacey declaration they all realized what was happening, it falls on them.
This was an obvious attempt to make the roofing less unhinged, but it then falls flat on our 3 characters that are put in a position of being disliked heavily.

None of them made any attempt to recover the money by giving the items back, none of them made an attempt to try and make it up to MC, what they do at most is compliment his outfit.
Ex do not make you act like that, quite the opposite in fact, but even if we exercise an extreme amount of suspension of disbelief, after the fact, when everyone is sober, there is no remorse, no regret and no considerable apology.

The cheating was glaring, there is no opinion on it, you bringing up Lacey separation of sex and love is pointless since she actually knows that she cheated with Bastion so she knows that sex acts or even semisexual stuff is cheating.
Jeanette did not cheat because she was not in a relationship, Lacey did because she is, and frankly reading that it is not makes me wonder the moral fiber of Jeanette.

Jeanette is simply not Jeanette anymore, wouldn't you agree that she would spend time trying to make it up to MC? Or at least being VERY embarassed about the whole thing? She was more embarassed when she was caught naked than when she acted like this for a whole day? Please.

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There are degrees on how you should write such things, MC went from being broken and with PTSD episodes to being a complete nutjob, it is a forced exaggeration that makes him even less relatable.

I mentioned it before, ramp up his current symptoms, do not add another 15 in the mix, like a good dish you need only so many flavours, not the whole spice rack.

What can be argued with is that differently than act 2 he is not regarded as victim anymore, but as someone that is hurting others when he tried to work through his feelings, a very weird change of direction.

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Lacey has literally only those 2 moments where she shows growth, she has shown more growth in 2 conversations in act 2 than the whole act 3.
She made a lot of steps backwards this act, and by all the new discoveries, she is less likeable than before, I always rooted and sort of defended her actions, after act 3 it is very difficult to do so.

She blames MC for her college days, she blames MC for her behaviour and ultimately doesn't show remorse or regret in several important moments.

And hey, my fellow posters call me the Lacey's simp around here...

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I have been to therapy, the therapist is really just not doing it for me.
Deleting of the video might show that MC trusts Lacey, sure, but it also shows that he is still spineless and is not willing to face the hard truth.

He and Lacey should have watched it together and get closure, that is how you fix things, not by hiding stuff under the rug (which incidentally is what the author is telling us is killing MC).

And can we please stop with the brain damage insurance card? Trauma can be a reason but it is not a justification.
Accountability is the path of healing, always, people that get to therapy and come out saying "ah I act like this because I have X, good luck everyone else" will never heal nor make progress, it is not how it works (but keeps therapists pockets full).

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She doesn't hate it, she hates herself, and in phase 1 and 2 she didn't hate it.
In fact now that I think of it one line of dialogue in the KW and a couple in act one go exactly in the opposite direction, a bit dubious about act 2 because there is still some mystery over something that was promised to be clarified but has been forgotten for now.

She is not drunk and high for 4 years, only 3 and we do not know exactly when she started the alcohol (first) and K (second) abuse.

Phase 3 is all about self destruction and self hate, true.

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Like any other person alive which had problems in their youth, by trying to be better and accepting what the people that care about you tell you.

Gullible and naive? Are you sure? Lacey is a complete metronome, from extremely wise and emotionally intelligent when convenient to dumb as a rock and uncaring the second.

I can accept shades, I can accept character growth but she is the most inconsistent character of all probably, even without bringing in the photograpic memory that then becomes a complete black hole, depending on what the scene needs.

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Before act 3 I would have agreed with you, there are too many things in act 3 that do not click, and Vegas puts her in the dumps.

You are again blaming MC.

Lacey fucks up? Eh Mc needs to learn.

Lacey cheats on MC? Eh Mc needs to trust.

You just said that Mc is a broken man in need of help, you surely do not show much empathy towards him.

Lacey has not made many good decisions since act 1, and failed to build trust in MC, it is on HER not on HIM.
Heck MC mental state is very much a result of present events, much like the past ones.

MC is a victim.

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Lacey said literally 2 white lies in this novel, one to Jamie and one to MC, the rest of the lies are quite black.
Sparing him more suffering is a nice excuse that I hope gets blown up soon, Lacey is terrified to hurt him, yes, but because she knows full well she is walking on thin ice.

It might not shock you because you are used to lies, this is something personal, but lying is not the greatest way to build trust.

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Except act 1 makes very clear what the problem was and act 2 builds upon the emotional aspect of her narcissism.
Act 3 bulldozes everything down.

Half of act 1 can be thrown out, I always fought on this board and on the discord with folks saying that every single word in the novel is a lie, so now I have to say that they were right because of this retcon.

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Again, it is MC fault that she flirts outrageously with people, right.

I guess we all forgot that the day after she cheated on Mc in act 1 she was at the bar flirting with other men, and Mc was not particurlarly happy about it, yet she did it anyway.

Or maybe we need a refresher on the great lesson Dianne gave Lacey about the jealousy date kiss.

Stop blaming MC to cover up bad behaviour, when she is flirting she is NOT super high yet, and when you get a heavy scare like being caught flirting with your husband present the high comes down fast (not completely).
In fact they are all so "super high" to the point where they can all have a pretty articulated conversation.

Addict for almost 15 years (clean now), you make bad decisions, but you are always in control, you just choose to go for the easy dopamine hit.
And yet it is NOT an excuse.

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None of the decision of Lacey is particularly baffling, she acts selfishly wihout caring about Mc since act 1.
Trauma/drugs or whatever other excuse we want to throw in the cauldron can be a reason, but not a justification.

In act 2 Lacey started to keep herself accountable, this part is almost completely gone.

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So all the very sound and very logical relationship advice she gave Lorenzo is also to be thrown out? Her logic is either warped or extremely sound, I doubt anyone can reconcile both.
And how do you know that the threesome was completely Lacey's idea? In fact the idea is from Lorenzo:

LO "Before you go, I need to ask you a really big favor."
L "I don't feel like I need to give you any more favors."
LO "I know."
LO "I just... will you at least hear me out?"
L "(sigh) Alright, let's hear it."

You should select and accept the ntrs and yet she cheats in Vegas, is fondled at the pool (which at some point we could all accept at not particularly good, especially since she touched first) and she touches a stripper to the point that she is called out... I am unsure whether we read the same AVN or we paid the same attention to the dialogues.

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This is absolutely true she is in therapy for a short time, in fact many criticized that her being so good in act 2 was too quick.

I do not get frustrated at the same mistakes, I get frustrated at the same writing and the same events dressed up as something different.
I am sorry but Vegas really does spoil the act, which has other issues as well, but it could be okish if Vegas was just not there.

Just one question, as an addict that has a problem with drugs, and knowing your husband as you do, wouldn't you immediately ask him what is going on?
Aside from the fact that ex does not make you act like that at all, in fact probably Lacey would be all snuggled up on MC (she notices every single person around her but not Mc btw, forced drama to the extreme), but would you really think that it would be ok? And I say it with that experience under my belt.
Maybe considering that Lacey is (if we have to believe what is written) probably under medication? Alcohol and ex do not mix (I did it a ton, so I sound like an hypocrite, but it does have a high chance of fucking you up) medication and ex should not even be in the same room.

Ok she doesn't make the best decisions ever, but this is a very big one.

It is not about agreeing or not with the premise, it is about trying to have some consistent writing and getting some quality back.

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[SayoraSaint]

You know. There are stories where the MC is portrayed as a terrible, down-and-out drug addict or alcoholic, and suddenly fate gives him a chance to do something good, and he seizes it, which helps him break free from the grip of his own worthless, pathetic existence and become a better person. And if at first we felt only hostility and perhaps pity for this person, then with every good action he takes, we begin to empathize and worry about him. Because that's human nature...


So, all this isn't about our story. In ours, or rather the story of the author who presents it to us, everything happens the other way around.
I wrote this entire text only to be amazed at how inventive and resourceful one must be to continue to justify history and lacey.
Such people don't admit that the ship has already sunk until the water reaches their necks. Optimists.

 

[Avaron1974]

Such people don't admit that the ship has already sunk until the water reaches their necks.

Except in the case of this MC the water has gone so far over his head he's set up shop at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

 

[telly1712]

Can it be that in the closing scene of act 3 Laceys alter ego - part of her split personality - talked the MC announcing her plans to divorce to give him the chance to heal...and give her the chance to live what she can best ...

...or (most likely) it was it an additional illusion his ill mind presented him showing again all his despair and confusion ?

 

[funnythings3785]

Can it be that in the closing scene of act 3 Laceys alter ego - part of her split personality - talked the MC announcing her plans to divorce to give him the chance to heal...and give her the chance to live what she can best ...

...or (most likely) it was it an additional illusion his ill mind presented him showing again all his despair and confusion ?

Make sure to spoiler things like that.


Honestly, at this point I have given up on any clever plot twists in the writing. With Act 3, and a lot of issues we had in the previous Acts with inconsistencies I don't think there is some grand plot aspect going on with the characters and if there is a major twist, I have a feeling it is going to be along the line of some theories here about using the supernatural as a justification for all the issues.

The characters have changed too often and far too dramatically along with huge conflicts and inconsistencies simply being dismissed or ignored to promote whatever "in the moment" direction the professor is trying to convey.

With Act 1/2, there was intrigue and question about where things could go, what could happen, and if the writing was playing tricks here and there in clever ways. It caused me to be excited about what I will learn in the next Act.

After Act 3, I hate to say it, but I am losing interest and find myself really not caring. I don't care about the MC that much anymore, I don't care about the girls... and Lacey....? Well, lets just say that prior to Act 3, I was rooting for her. I hated her in many ways, but I also saw possible redemption, some means to where I (contrary to some peoples takes) actually could see him and her working something out where I could tolerate them "being together".

At this point, I would rather she be thrown in a wood chipper (along with most of the girls) and the MC? Honestly, I don't care... he doesn't mean that much, he never did when you reflect on the story.

Harsh? Yes... but you can't be this inconsistent and take such dramatic changes in character development while dumping on the MC like they have and expect a "kind" view of it.

While I don't view this story with the disgust and hate I do with most NTR titles, this one like I said, I am pretty much at the point where I couldn't care any less.

Maybe the professor will change in the next Act? Maybe something will be rectified, but if it continues this way, I doubt I will even be able to make it past Act 4.

 

[funnythings3785]

My issue with Lacey... is that every aspect of her "growth" in the relationship is based on a lie, manipulation, etc...

She hasn't been truthful at all. Even the most basic concepts of discussion are manipulated. (going to spoiler because I don't want to try and keep track of things)

I think back to a previous act about "Barty" where she tells the MC "Wait... tell me EXACTLY what Barty said and did..." At the time, I didn't put much thought, but when you consider her over the course, she wasn't simply trying to understand, she was trying to figure out what he knew EXACTLY so that she could manipulate the discussion in a way to her favor. She does this quite often, only offering her response after she has collected all the information the MC knows before she weaves some story to placate him.

Nothing has ever been about the MC. EVERYTHING she does is for her benefit and she is not simply a liar, but a devious liar. She hides it behind "caring" for the MC, about his "Feelings" and helping him grow, but this isn't true... it is to keep control over the situation as she sees fit for HER benefit, not his because... as we all know, as the story tells us, the problem is really the MC.

Every "growth" she has is at his expense. Everything she does is inconsiderate to him. Even if you look to the acts where we are led to believe she is "doing it for him", it becomes clear it is not for him, it is for her. She isn't simply selfish, she is evil in many ways (this is taking into effect Act 3).

If this were a cycle of her improving, then failing, improving, etc... there would be very clear actions on her part where she is doing this, but when you look at the circumstances where we see that apparently she is doing this, we find with later information and actions, it was all a sham. Every growth can be shown to be a win for Lacey, and at best the "win" for her is a neutral result to the MC with the worst being "growth" at his expense, his misery, his utter devastation.

She has really no redeemable qualities. Act 3 seriously destroyed everything of note concerning her.