VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[monkeyqueen]

DeviantFun

Anna isn't a reliable narrator - she's on a mission to destroy the relationship so she can have Gristle. She's also a sociopath.

(pro tip: breaking into houses and secretly recording people is not normal)

Q: Why did Anna delete the audio recording?

A: To make Lacey look as bad as possible when Lacey acted exceptionally well.

And it was a really shitty thing to do because Lacey put Isaac in his place - and that was part of his transformation.


Help me out, I'm not entirely sure what your point is? Do you not believe that Lacey wants to be abused? Do you not believe that Gristle wants to abuse her? Help me understand where we disagree.

 

[Arithil]

I will be honest with you all, there is no point of figuring out what will happen in next chapters, since professor seems to write spontaneously. For all we care in the next episode there could be dinosaurs, i will just wait and see, also try to forget. I personally hope that mc won't have breakdown and instead wake the fuck up and grows some balls, put Lacey in her place but thats wishful thinking. I would compare this to the game Dispatch, 70% of people thought that BB is secretly a villain with how nice she acted and from previous experiences from other games and it turned out that she is just a good and mature person

 

[DeviantFun]

DeviantFun

Anna isn't a reliable narrator - she's on a mission to destroy the relationship so she can have Gristle. She's also a sociopath.

(pro tip: breaking into houses and secretly recording people is not normal)

Q: Why did Anna delete the audio recording?

A: To make Lacey look as bad as possible when Lacey acted exceptionally well.

And it was a really shitty thing to do because Lacey put Isaac in his place - and that was part of his transformation.


Help me out, I'm not entirely sure what your point is? Do you not believe that Lacey wants to be abused? Do you not believe that Gristle wants to abuse her? Help me understand where we disagree.

My point is that you are not reading the novel, and are injecting some weird personal thoughts into it.

case in point:
MC "Just because I'm jealous doesn't give me the right to punish you forever."
L "It's only been a month."
L "You act like you've been punishing me for years."
L "A month of you being hurt and angry is nothing."
L "It's a walk in the park."
L "Maybe if this were only about the past, then maybe I'd feel a little differently."
L "I'd still understand, but I might feel like we should set a time limit for how long you punish me."

But I already broke my personal promise twice now, this is the last one.
(There are other points where Lacey actually punishes and abuses HERSELF, through others too, and it is clear that she does not want to relive that, but I'll let you find them by yourself.)

Your interpretation of Anna is clearly very......ahem....personal.

You don't have to change your mind, you are set in it and are clearly enjoying yourself with your own "interpretations", but please stop trying to push so hard on it.

Edit: I do not want to sound harsh or anything, I think you are bringing some personal stuff in the novel that is not there.
I get it, why do you think I stick heavily to the material and dialogues? To avoid myself going down that path, as some topics in the novel are very personal to me.

I will be honest with you all, there is no point of figuring out what will happen in next chapters, since professor seems to write spontaneously.

This is very true, give me back act 1 social anxiety Kelly and act 2 Lacey

 

[funnythings3785]

I will be honest with you all, there is no point of figuring out what will happen in next chapters, since professor seems to write spontaneously. For all we care in the next episode there could be dinosaurs, i will just wait and see, also try to forget. I personally hope that mc won't have breakdown and instead wake the fuck up and grows some balls, put Lacey in her place but thats wishful thinking. I would compare this to the game Dispatch, 70% of people thought that BB is secretly a villain with how nice she acted and from previous experiences from other games and it turned out that she is just a good and mature person

Yep, which is fine, it is his style. My hope though is that after he is finished, he goes back and shores everything up... and well...

I would absolutely LOVE for him to release a commentary scene by scene on his thoughts, what he was going for, various things, etc... I think it would be just as fascinating to see that once it is done.

 

[monkeyqueen]

My point is that you are not reading the novel, and are injecting some weird thoughts into it.

We're actually making the very same point to one another - I think you are projecting some weird personal thoughts into it. I suspect - but don't know - that you sympathizes with the MC when they are not intended to be a sympathetic character.

(and that is normal for people to disagree on interpretation)

The MC is a monster wearing a nice guy mask. Lacey knows this but loves her shark anyway because she is an abuse victim. And she is specifically a type of abuse victim that turned to self abuse as a defense mechanism. Her desire for punishment is crazy but it's who she is.

How do I know this about Lacey? Two reasons supported by the text - one, Gristle's rules. Take away Lacey's pencil's on Friday or she will stab herself with them over the weekend. Two - the pain she received in college actually healed her. Were it not for Isaac she would have freed herself of the images of her father.

Now - this is indeed personal - but I dated a cutter once. This is the psychology of the cutter:

Achem. Life gives us all sorts of bad feelings that are hard to identify and/or impossible to deal with. Job, traffic, painful memories, relationship drama. Sometimes there's no solution. What if we could actually solve all those problems all at once? What if we could just cut them away? Cutters transform diffuse, amorphous psychological pain into physical pain. Do they like it? Kinda-no. What they like is that they can literally release all that pain by transforming it into just a few cuts. Razor blade goes in and then you only need to deal the physical pain - and they know how to heal or tolerate physical pain. This is what Lacey was doing with the pencils - making psychological pain physical.

(Lacey is also a masochist and a scapegoat - but I'll address that separately because they aren't the same)

Why do I think the MC is a monster? So many reasons! Replay the King's Day scenes - when Gristle is asked to come up with his darkest fantasy he comes up with three rape fantasies. The player MUST choose a rape fantasy for the MC. The player then MUST choose a mind control fantasy that destroys the minds of the harem members. Anna gets to see what only Lacey has seen up until now - there is another side of Gristle that Anna has never seen even (if she accepts it in some way) As Lacey says elsewhere the MC is her Frankenstein monster - but he is a monster.

I will eventually collect lots of quotes to support this theory for you and anyone interested.

And of course the final sex scene of act 1. Lacey and Frankenstein have the best sex they've had since their wedding night. He almost kills her and she almost dies.

As to you quote: ". . . .I'd still understand, but I might feel like we should set a time limit for how long you punish me."

Lacey is telling herself that - one day she will be healthy. I'm rooting for her but that doesn't mean that this sick puppy doesn't crave the pain right now. (again, when I have more time I'll collect more evidence)

You don't have to change your mind, you are set in it and are clearly enjoying yourself with your own "interpretations", but please stop trying to push so hard on it.

For me exchanging theories is the fun of this game. I hate the sex scenes so much. And I do think people are interpreting it wrongly. So I can't promise that any more than you can.

 

[funnythings3785]

I think Lacey is the one excited about the “fake” argument, not MC?

Yep, she used the Anna situation essentially to create another JD for herself. See how she could excuse her actions off of making him jealous because she was "jealous and scared" herself? Oh poor thing, she suffered... but quick MC, get jealous, save her and rush up to the hotel room so you can word vomit at her and then fuck her silly!

I bet her "silence" during the whole thing in the bar was her simply getting very aroused and salivating in the moment. "I was shocked... totally shocked I tell you... *cough*.. umm... "ooohhhh... shocked... yeah... that's it... right there..." /sigh

 

[Lady Lydia]

Yep, which is fine, it is his style. My hope though is that after he is finished, he goes back and shores everything up... and well...

I would absolutely LOVE for him to release a commentary scene by scene on his thoughts, what he was going for, various things, etc... I think it would be just as fascinating to see that once it is done.

I really don't think it would even be possible for the Prof to be able to comment on their state of mind while doing the various scenes, the radical shifts in between Acts imply the Prof doesn't really keep track of those things, if they actually were able to keep track they'd be able to realize they deviated their characters & narrative from an Act to another, since they can't its obvious when they are done with an Act any thought they had on it just fade away, they only retain some stuff, the big narrative lines, and everything else is mostly gone except some vague impressions.

 

[funnythings3785]

I really don't think it would even be possible for the Prof to be able to comment on their state of mind while doing the various scenes, the radical shifts in between Acts imply the Prof doesn't really keep track of those things, if they actually were able to keep track they'd be able to realize they deviated their characters & narrative from an Act to another, since they can't its obvious when they are done with an Act any thought they had on it just fade away, they only retain some stuff, the big narrative lines, and everything else is mostly gone except some vague impressions.

Well, I did say that I would like for him to go back and "shore up" the story first... but consider this...

Even if he didn't, him explaining each scene might give some insight on his thinking of things. They may be disconnected from scene to scene, but the point is not so much as him sharing the technical aspects of his story, but more so him giving insight on what he was trying to convey in a given scene, even if it doesn't "fit" the story, it would still be interesting, heck... as I said it might explain WHY some scenes progress the way they do in terms of their drastic changes.

 

[AL.d]

My worry is that this will become a crutch to absolve her in the story, that somehow it will turn out that he is really at fault here because he didn't go get her and I would argue that this would have been completely out of character for him to do that as well as counter to the way his relationship had evolved through childhood with her.

He did not force Lacey in their youth, he simply adjusted to fit her needs and her leaving for college (with the claim she would return so they could be together) was him responding to that dynamic. His sending messages, fell in line with his process of checking if she needed him, but her lack of response (more specifically him seeing she read the messages) was also him respecting those boundaries he established all through youth (ie... don't touch here, only here on this day, sit this way, do all the talking, don't talk, presents on this day, not that one... etc...). He was merely doing as he always did, trying to be helpful, but not upsetting her wishes.

True, but I don't see how he would go about it. Bad things happen all the time by people who have childhood trauma. It doesn't absolve them. I think he just added that as a piece of the puzzle, because all the excuses and her silly reasoning don't explain shit.

You are right that it's an irrational sentiment. But it is meant to be that. She is a narcissist, they are not exactly known to hold themselves accountable in more than lip service. Also she's the type of narc (vulnerable), who feeds on negative attention. Jealousy, anger, humiliation, all those work as supply for that type, they provoke them for that purpose. It's called reactive abuse. So having some underlying resentment for the dude who is too servile to ever ignore her boundaries, try to control her and stop her antics, checks out. If she tells him to stay outside and not open the door, he won't.

 

[funnythings3785]

True, but I don't see how he would go about it. Bad things happen all the time by people who have childhood trauma. It doesn't absolve them. I think he just added that as a piece of the puzzle, because all the excuses and her silly reasoning don't explain shit.

You are right that it's an irrational sentiment. But it is meant to be that. She is a narcissist, they are not exactly known to hold themselves accountable in more than lip service. Also she's the type of narc (vulnerable), who feeds on negative attention. Jealousy, anger, humiliation, all those work as supply for that type, they provoke them for that purpose. It's called reactive abuse. So having some underlying resentment for the dude who is too servile to ever ignore her boundaries, try to control her and stop her antics, checks out. If she tells him to stay outside and not open the door, he won't.

Nor I, the way the story is going is concerning... but... it is also possible the professor due to his style could pull something out of a rabbits hat so to speak and resolve it (likely much to our dismay).

My biggest issue is him sacrificing the MC, and I don't mean that I have a problem with a demoralized ending for him, rather... I just don't want him to be a scapegoat and doormat to proclaim victory by Lacey or the girls. In that, it would be no different than any other NTR garbage story where the FC gets everything she wants and somehow the story ultimately reasons why it was always the MCs fault.

That would be an insult. I don't care if the MC dies, if crap hits the fan and he is demoralized, but FFS... I won't accept the whole concept of the antagonist getting to play the victim AND the hero, it is a tired trope that has been poisoning various works throughout entertainment media. It makes no sense, it is... in itself completely narciscistic and wreaks of the cancer of "self insert" writing style.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Well, I did say that I would like for him to go back and "shore up" the story first... but consider this...

Even if he didn't, him explaining each scene might give some insight on his thinking of things. They may be disconnected from scene to scene, but the point is not so much as him sharing the technical aspects of his story, but more so him giving insight on what he was trying to convey in a given scene, even if it doesn't "fit" the story, it would still be interesting, heck... as I said it might explain WHY some scenes progress the way they do in terms of their drastic changes.

But that is the point I am saying, I doubt the Prof even can tell us what they meant to convey with various scenes because if they could keep all of that in mind they'd write the story more consistently between the Acts, the fact they can't keep in mind their past characterization and narrative in pretty much any shape or form except likely the most basic skeletal way, is an indication to that.

I wouldn't be shocked to discover they completely change their own perception of their own characterization and narrative between the various Acts so at this point likely any insight the Prof had during the making of Act 1 is long gone, same for Act 2, and Act 3 might be the only one the Prof could give us insight into that would still be viable, but by the time Act 4 will be out any insight on Act 3 will have become obsolete. I know some creative minds work like that, as soon as they are done with a piece of work it fade out of their mind quickly and each Acts in this game amount to a separate piece of work.

As for shoring up the story... that would be a dozy, if by shore it up you mean rewrite just about every Acts to streamline them and likely redo a ton of stuff to make it consistent, I mean I'd love that, but I am not sure the Prof could even achieve that without completely rewriting large swats of the story.

 

[funnythings3785]

But that is the point I am saying, I doubt the Prof even can tell us what they meant to convey with various scenes because if they could keep all of that in mind they'd write the story more consistently between the Acts, the fact they can't keep in mind their past characterization and narrative in pretty much any shape or form except likely the most basic skeletal way, is an indication to that.

I wouldn't be shocked to discover they completely change their own perception of their own characterization and narrative between the various Acts so at this point likely any insight the Prof had during the making of Act 1 is long gone, same for Act 2, and Act 3 might be the only one the Prof could give us insight into that would still be viable, but by the time Act 4 will be out any insight on Act 3 will have become obsolete. I know some creative minds work like that, as soon as they are done with a piece of work it fade out of their mind quickly and each Acts in this game amount to a separate piece of work.

Possible, but I would wager that the professor is capable of reading a scene he wrote and explaining what he was thinking "at that moment" he wrote it. Keep in mind, I am not saying he should have to explain how it flowed between each act or scene (if he couldn't I would understand that because he seems to be an "in the moment writer"), but through his individual evaluations of a scene recount, it "may" (and I stress "may") provide some insight into things over all, even if he doesn't realize it in the micro explanations, a macro evaluation of all commentary at the end of the story might provide its own analysis and even if it doesn't it still gives a perspective of how he wrote the story and "may" explain things over all from that perspective.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Nor I, the way the story is going is concerning... but... it is also possible the professor due to his style could pull something out of a rabbits hat so to speak and resolve it (likely much to our dismay).

My biggest issue is him sacrificing the MC, and I don't mean that I have a problem with a demoralized ending for him, rather... I just don't want him to be a scapegoat and doormat to proclaim victory by Lacey or the girls. In that, it would be no different than any other NTR garbage story where the FC gets everything she wants and somehow the story ultimately reasons why it was always the MCs fault.

That would be an insult. I don't care if the MC dies, if crap hits the fan and he is demoralized, but FFS... I won't accept the whole concept of the antagonist getting to play the victim AND the hero, it is a tired trope that has been poisoning various works throughout entertainment media. It makes no sense, it is... in itself completely narciscistic and wreaks of the cancer of "self insert" writing style.

Considering its said their will be 7 endings, I doubt anyone wishing the story ending only in a specific way are going to be satisfied, I assume various forms from good to bad are going to happen, but I doubt the more aggressively 'edgy' forms of ending are going to happen. I suspect a Romeo & Juliette scenario somewhat for one ending which is going to be a bad ending, but otherwise maybe either of them killed by a third party, but anyone that expect the MC to kill Lacey are very delusional, or those that expect the MC to become little more than a living sex toy for Lacey.

 

[NewGuy2022]

The real conundrum is, which "inconsistencies" are simply writer oversights, and which are intended character/story portrayals that have some longer meaning.

This probably is the most frustrating part of the story for me. I don't know which content really is content and which will be explained away later as "brain damage", etc. It's really hard to accept how an NPC can go from evil to good (or the opposite) so quickly within the story. It seems fake and makes me, the reader, question the NPC's motives, intent, and credibility.

I restarted the story and am noticing things either I missed before or didn't recognize as important on my first run-though. Even when Lacey isn't cheating on her husband, the way she behaves makes it appear she is; I didn't appreciate just how serious her gaslighting is on my first run. I find it hard to accept the assertion that she loves him when I see her treating him the way she does.

that somehow it will turn out that he is really at fault here because he didn't go get her

I'm assuming you mean while she was in college? Did he even know where she was in school? During the time when he texted her repeatedly (100 times in one day according to the narrator)--and she never replied or acknowledged him? Straight up, how could he be at fault then? Or do you mean when they were even younger, like little kids?

it would be no different than any other NTR garbage story where the FC gets everything she wants and somehow the story ultimately reasons why it was always the MCs fault.

Frankly, it's what I'm expecting (hoping against but expecting) and the MC would agree in that ending... since as you point out this is how Western NTR stories end.

I would absolutely LOVE for him to release a commentary scene by scene on his thoughts, what he was going for, various things, etc... I think it would be just as fascinating to see that once it is done.

I might enjoy that more than the story itself since I'm really not sure what to believe in the story so I'm not sure what really happened up to this point. I would hope that explanation could lay out a timeline of sorts to tell us what really happened in the story.

 

[funnythings3785]

Considering its said their will be 7 endings, I doubt anyone wishing the story ending only in a specific way are going to be satisfied, I assume various forms from good to bad are going to happen, but I doubt the more aggressively 'edgy' forms of ending are going to happen. I suspect a Romeo & Juliette scenario somewhat for one ending which is going to be a bad ending, but otherwise maybe either of them killed by a third party, but anyone that expect the MC to kill Lacey are very delusional, nor do those that expect the MC to become little more than a living sex toy for Lacey.

Hard to say to be honest, but at this point I don't know... Due to this writing style, I have no idea what will be, where we will go, or where we will end. His writing doesn't follow traditional setups, foreshadowing, and progressive character development. Honestly, it is all over the place, which is part of the issue here.

 

[funnythings3785]

This probably is the most frustrating part of the story for me. I don't know which content really is content and which will be explained away later as "brain damage", etc. It's really hard to accept how an NPC can go from evil to good (or the opposite) so quickly within the story. It seems fake and makes me, the reader, question the NPC's motives, intent, and credibility.

I restarted the story and am noticing things either I missed before or didn't recognize as important on my first run-though. Even when Lacey isn't cheating on her husband, the way she behaves makes it appear she is; I didn't appreciate just how serious her gaslighting is on my first run. I find it hard to accept the assertion that she loves him when I see her treating him the way she does.



I'm assuming you mean while she was in college? Did he even know where she was in school? During the time when he texted her repeatedly (100 times in one day according to the narrator)--and she never replied or acknowledged him? Straight up, how could he be at fault then? Or do you mean when they were even younger, like little kids?



Frankly, it's what I'm expecting (hoping against but expecting) and the MC would agree in that ending... since as you point out this is how Western NTR stories end.



I might enjoy that more than the story itself since I'm really not sure what to believe in the story so I'm not sure what really happened up to this point. I would hope that explanation could lay out a timeline of sorts to tell us what really happened in the story.

Yes, I am speaking of college and his responses during that time. His childhood actions are fairly well established in the intro and various comments over the course of the acts that he was attentive to her needs, served whatever solution she needed to find comfort or at the least some form of peace in her suffering from her situation.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Hard to say to be honest, but at this point I don't know... Due to this writing style, I have no idea what will be, where we will go, or where we will end. His writing doesn't follow traditional setups, foreshadowing, and progressive character development. Honestly, it is all over the place, which is part of the issue here.

The problem is the Prof would be crucified if they go for any 'edgy' ending that end up remotely like the typical Western NTR games. Considering they have two other games currently in the making if they were to shit so hard on their proclamation that this wouldn't be a cliche NTR game it will kill their player base instantly.

So the MC becoming Lacey's pet would be cliche NTR, the MC killing Lacey would also be somewhat cliche NTR, even the MC leaving Lacey would be effectively cliche NTR, plus their is the double bind issue, if the MC leave Lacey without replacement he dies and she dies afterward, if the MC leave Lacey while he has a replacement, she dies and he might make it out alive but he'll be miserable because he caused Lacey to die, whoever replace Lacey would be able to keep him alive, but it wouldn't be great for him. Either of those would be bad endings.

If the Prof wants to be an overdramatic ass about it could end like the antagonists of Suikoden I, the MC is at the cliff, Lacey join him and they just jump off together, if this happen to be an ending I might end up fucking my eyes up due to the depth of the eye roll I'd go thru.

 

[NewGuy2022]

Yes, I am speaking of college and his responses during that time. His childhood actions are fairly well established in the intro and various comments over the course of the acts that he was attentive to her needs, served whatever solution she needed to find comfort or at the least some form of peace in her suffering from her situation.

Ok. Unless I missed something on my run, MC does not know where she is attending college, she won't reply to his messages, and he doesn't know about any other friends she had at home to ask... ...how on earth could anyone be expected to go "save" her from an unknown place--a place that she went to so she could learn to stand on her own two feet (a reason not to interfere)?

 

[funnythings3785]

Ok, here is something to consider that I noticed about the professors writing style and why this may be an issue in what we are seeing.

The professor seems to "self insert" in some of his writing of the characters (he suggests this in his comments about how much he loves Lacey's character).

Self inserting has benefits, but many pit falls and it is one a lot of amateur writers have issues with. Basically it is when a writer finds some connection or relation to the character they are writing. It doesn't have to be a literal "self insert", it can simply be an empathy, or some means to where the writer finds some connection to the character.

Normally, this isn't a big issue, but it does become a problem if the writer hasn't solidified their story progression on the characters and their states. The problems evolve with how the writer begins to favor that specific character and then that character is allowed to circumvent the story structure through various inconsistent or "miraculous" means.

The professor loves Lacey, he has stated it as such, and I would wager he has connections with various characters that have all of a sudden shown drastic change in their progression in the story. Combine the fact that the professor writes in a manner that is more "in the moment" and you can see how this can have an effect on story and character structure to which it flows where the professor is focusing, and not entirely with respect to the story he has presented.

So what does this mean? It means that the story can go anywhere. Currently Lacey is the favorite, but do not discount that other characters, at specific times, could also find favor and have adjustments that conflict with their current direction in the writing.

I honestly don't know if this is the issue, it seems like it, the story seems flow like this when you pay attention to specific character changes, but for whatever the reason is, they do and this "may" be some ultimate progression the professor has planned, so I have no clue to be honest, but I do notice "favoring" at times in the writing that "forces" extreme changes in character progression and this makes it "extremely" difficult to figure out what is going on and what "may" be happening next.

All I know is that this is an issue in a lot of modern writing and it does cause serious issues with story flow, consistency, and respect to resolution in many works out there.

 

[funnythings3785]

The problem is the Prof would be crucified if they go for any 'edgy' ending that end up remotely like the typical Western NTR games. Considering they have two other games currently in the making if they were to shit so hard on their proclamation that this wouldn't be a cliche NTR game it will kill their player base instantly.

So the MC becoming Lacey's pet would be cliche NTR, the MC killing Lacey would also be somewhat cliche NTR, even the MC leaving Lacey would be effectively cliche NTR, plus their is the double bind issue, if the MC leave Lacey without replacement he dies and she dies afterward, if the MC leave Lacey while he has a replacement, she dies and he might make it out alive but he'll be miserable because he caused Lacey to die, whoever replace Lacey would be able to keep him alive, but it wouldn't be great for him. Either of those would be bad endings.

If the Prof wants to be an overdramatic ass about it could end like the antagonists of Suikoden I, the MC is at the cliff, Lacey join him and they just jump off together, if this happen to be an ending I might end up fucking my eyes up due to the depth of the eye roll I'd go thru.

Well, I wouldn't call any retaliation by the MC to be "cliche" to be honest. Most (not all) NTR favors the FC as the Heroine, however shady like it is reasoned, the MC "rarely" ends with a revenge ending. So if he were to do something like that, honestly... I would be surprised.

Outside of that, yes... if he follows the "Traditional" obvious angles where the MC becomes a cuck, where Lacey gets her happy ending without the MC, or the MC becomes converted into a sex starved guy who shares her (still a cuck ending IMO) that would be a "traditional" NTR ending.

So he has to operate outside of those means which is as you say, he dies, she dies... or... non-traditional result where he gets a happy ending and maybe she doesn't get him, but gets to "view from the outside".

The reality is, to have an ending in this that doesn't result in a traditional NTR, Lacey has to have a negative (outside of her changing and becoming a better person), which I don't see happening because the professor is attached so much to her. At best, we can find some ending where the MC and Lacey are together, but likely due to him being at fault and coming to terms... with maybe Lacey not wanting to partake in the "experiments" or other behavior, but honestly... I think the MC is going to be the one who loses out here in some way... that is.... unless the professor magically absolves her of her behavior and issues near the end, but since they are not seen as the "problem", I am not sure that is what we will get.