VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[cormac69]

Did you try the patched version?

Yes, I have the current version from his Patreon with the latest patch he made.

 

[monkeyqueen]

Events explained by Red Bench theory

- where did Lacey get the K?
- where did Mia get the K?
- where did MC get so much money to spend in vegas
- why do all these women fall in love with the MC
- why Dianne show up just at the right time with such a narrowly tailored diagnosis
- how did Abby come up with such an elaborate plan
- who vetted Lacey for the poker tournament
- if Isaac is telling the truth about the house being a tax write off why did he go and live with his mom
- why a red bra? we first learn about red bra night during the first red bra night scene but the text implies this is something that has been going on for a while

(this last one, I fully admit, is a stretch because it requires that both Red Bench theory and Black Bra Lacey theory be correct)

Lacey didn't notice Gristle in red pants because that's what Red Bench MC wears. And white bra Lacey doesn't know Red Bench MC - only Black Bra Lacey knows who he is.

Edit: Also explains how the MC found a "Better Call Saul" accountant willing to do whatever it takes to protect her clients. Kelly found someone "who knows someone, who knows someone" Uh huh. Did this person enjoy wearing red ?

 

[monkeyqueen]

You Are Most likely Right that Lacey „has her Type“ , but for me more Important is if she can live without that permanent desire / feeling of getting attraction or needing that "external“ attraction or confirmation… unchangeable personality or Chance to evolve with help of therapy?

I suspect that one route will be a BDSM route - for Lacey to completely drop her masochism would require a mind wipe and reprogramming. Love to see it but I suspect that she is going to have to fuse

She doesn't really need that much external validation from men other than Gristle - she's telling the truth when she says that the flirting is not about the men, it's about her husband. She wants she the monster inside her lover "unchained" and for that monster to abuse her - to verbally slap her around, cause her physical pain and make her feel protected. One monster is enough for her.

She also wants to have husband love the 3rd part of her - he loves the damaged girl, he loves the trad wife but he doesn't love the party girl (yet).

That will only change if the MC gives into a cuck kink and becomes like Lorenzo. Then she will need to find a monster she respects. And that's the tragedy of "her" plan - if MC comes to love the party girl the other two sides of her will love the MC less.

 

[cormac69]

I found another instance where the wrong person is labelled as the one talking. This should be the MC saying this not Issac.I added the next two frames so that hopefully the Dev sees this and can see how it was supposed to flow.

 

[NewGuy2022]

Maybe I am misunderstanding things, but do you think it is possible the MCs "Break", specifically him coming home, seeing the illusion of her like that, what she says, etc... is a realization of this on his part to some extent? That she has been "lying" to him and herself about everything, trying to convince herself, etc... but the truth keeps coming out in various actions and behaviors?

So this realization is manifesting itself in the break because losing her is a large part of his issues and the conflicting actions of her is driving home this realization to which he does not want to consider or accept?

It might explain how the Lacey is in a constant conflict of characters within the story? Maybe I am reading into it too much.

MC knows Lacey lies to him and has known since Act 1. On my re-run through the story I'm surprised at the number of times MC mentions this to himself; I guess I skipped too much content on my first run through. He realizes how often she gaslights him, too.

Every time Lacey says, "you don't need to worry about it" that's code for, "you're on to something and I want you to stop because you might learn some truth; I don't want for you to know the truth about that."

As for the constant conflict w/ other NPCs I assess most of them, at some point in the story, claim to want the MC to be happy and healthy; Lacey's lies, gaslighting, and questionable (if not disloyal) actions toward the MC create friction. Folks don't like it when you lie to them or do/say things that harm people they care about.

Then, Act 3. So now I don't know anything.

 

[WannabeShady90]

You Are Most likely Right that Lacey „has her Type“ , but for me more Important is if she can live without that permanent desire / feeling of getting attraction or needing that "external“ attraction or confirmation… unchangeable personality or Chance to evolve with help of therapy?

Okey, let me try to explain this. I'm trying to simplify the psychology behind her behaviour as much as possible and use some metaphores.

The way a person sees the world is formed during their childhood years. Lacey was raped during that time by a person who is supposed to love her - her father. So Lacey thinks on an emotional level, that love means pain. The person who "loves" her, doesn't care about her emotional wellbeing and treats her like a piece of meat. (Foreshadowing) The psychological impact of that fact alone might have been lessened to a certain extend if she at least had a loving mother. But sadly, Lacey is shit out of luck again. Her mother is a narcissist. Without any fault of her own, Lacey was doomed to a life of misery from the very beginning of her life. She wasn't able to process that, which isn't her fault. Children are not able to understand the world around them on a fundamental level. They just assume that behaviour is normal and cope accordingly. Later on you might be able to explain to them on an intellectual level, for example in therapy, what was done to them, but the emotional damage has already been done. Love means to her being treated like her father treated her. This is some (extreme) form of what is commonly known as "daddy issues". She will - for the rest of her life - see this behaviour as love. People often self medicate their (emotional) pain, eather by substance abuse or self harm. I think you start to see the pattern here. What they essentially do, is replace one form of pain with an even more painful form. That is where the doom loop kicks in.

Lacey was abused --> Lacey physically hurts herself --> Lacey starts substance abuse to numb the pain --> Lacey gets "Love" out of the most hurtful forms of Sex

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT

Some people around here think that her self medication worked. It didn't. She replaced pain with more severe pain. She never healed. The moment she was ready to return didn't change anything. She still to this day wants to be hurt during sex by us. She copes about it. She thinks she's doing it for us, but she doesn't. That's called rationalization. It is a defense mechanism to cope with severe mental trauma. Think of it like that: Before your self identity collapses, your brain does whatever it has to do to avoid shutdown. "We" aka Captain SaveAHoe suffers from the same coping mechanism. That's why he starts to hear and see things that aren't there - his brain is literally fighting for survival.

What some people around here refer to as "healing" is possible, but not in the way they think. People like Lacey are treated with heavy - let me emphasize this - HEAVY MEDICATION. Therapy might be able to teach you what was done to you and why you are the way you are. What the the medication does is essentially tranquilize your brain. Think of it as a form of auto immune disease. Your brain activly hurts you, because your mind is broken. Tranquilizing your brain essentially slows down your brain so you hurt yourself less, but you will never be healed as in become a "normal" person.

 

[WannabeShady90]

If we assume for the sake of the argument, that Lacey actually at least tries to love Captain SaveAHoe, there are two possible paths forward. (Reminder that the author definitly suffered through some form of the trauma he writes about, so this is what he is familiar with).
--> One path is that Captain SaveAHoe actually becomes the abuser. That's what I was referencing with the Nietzsche-quote "If you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you" earlier. That way Lacey would experiance the "love" of her father again - the exact one she has been seeking throughout the whole story so far.
--> The other path is the continued doom-loop Lacey just escalates. If we take her word for it and she is actually jealous and fears us leaving, it will probably include a kind of Harem-route to induce even more severe pain to punish herself. (Remember: She hates herself. She goes out of her way to experiance pain because she thinks she deserves it). If you wanted to actually "heal" her, you would need her to stop punishing herself and pushing everyone away in the process.

 

[funnythings3785]

MC knows Lacey lies to him and has known since Act 1. On my re-run through the story I'm surprised at the number of times MC mentions this to himself; I guess I skipped too much content on my first run through. He realizes how often she gaslights him, too.

Every time Lacey says, "you don't need to worry about it" that's code for, "you're on to something and I want you to stop because you might learn some truth; I don't want for you to know the truth about that."

As for the constant conflict w/ other NPCs I assess most of them, at some point in the story, claim to want the MC to be happy and healthy; Lacey's lies, gaslighting, and questionable (if not disloyal) actions toward the MC create friction. Folks don't like it when you lie to them or do/say things that harm people they care about.

Then, Act 3. So now I don't know anything.

That is part of the frustrating thing about the MC. He has awareness in most things. He can see the lies, tell when he is being manipulated and reasons this (outside of his constant turn to blame himself) as a serious problem. He just never acts to it to any ultimate result.

It is why I can respect his character in that (at least up to Act 3), but hate him and think him completely retarded because like I said, he never puts his thoughts to any action.

While he degrades over the course of the acts, Act 3 is... well... a really crappy representation of him in all aspects. Even his mindset, his inner voice begins to give up, ignore, and excuse things which when you combine that with Lacey's change, it is really devastating and makes Lacey look like a complete pile of shit (as well as the other girls), yeah... I know she kind of is all things considered and it makes the MC look like some super cuck toy for them to get their thrills on.

It would be counter to his character, but the suggestion of him hard cucking all the girls with an new character he meets while he is away actually sounds kind of appealing.

 

[DeviantFun]

Lacey was abused --> Lacey physically hurts herself --> Lacey starts substance abuse to numb the pain --> Lacey gets "Love" out of the most hurtful forms of Sex

I will not go into the rest of your post on which I might even agree, especially on the trauma and meds part.

But she started loving sex when she started having sex with MC, which if you look at the scenes, is not the "most hurtful forms of sex".
And feels love differently than what you are implying.

In theory what you are saying it might make sense, but it is not corroborated by the material, check the marriage night, damian and other sex scenes with MC (maybe not the wine bottle one haha)

 

[WannabeShady90]

I will not go into the rest of your post on which I might even agree, especially on the trauma and meds part.

But she started loving sex when she started having sex with MC, which if you look at the scenes, is not the "most hurtful forms of sex".
And feels love differently than what you are implying.

In theory what you are saying it might make sense, but it is not corroborated by the material, check the marriage night, damian and other sex scenes with MC (maybe not the wine bottle one haha)

Are you familiar with the concept of projection?
During the Damian-event, Lacey interacts with Captain SaveAHoe, which means she is aware of his presence and awareness. What does she know hurts him the most? Jealousy. She uses every trick in the book to inflict maximum pain to Captain SaveAHoe. What is it she thinks is love again? Correct: Pain
Lacey projects her kinks onto him. Her enjoyment is his suffering.

 

[WannabeShady90]

She even says it herself: His jealousy (aka pain) gets her off. That's the whole reason for the bar-flirting event.

 

[NewGuy2022]

No I do not think the Prof will ever write the MC as reasonable, if you look MC has only one big breakthrough (in the office) in act 2 which is then obviously bulldozed over by act 3 events (and wasn't exactly a great breakthrough either).

MC needs to be always oblivious, sort of immobile and without agency to drive the story further.

The examples are many and they crash with what MC is at his core sometimes:

• Starting from act 3, MC simply follows everyone's orders and even when he says "I will not do it" he then will do it (bdsm club day 4).
• When MC reaches the room and see Lacey crashing out with OS, he does't hug her or try to stop her, he just stands there, so we can get some exposition as readers, MC has experience with that situation and it is stated that he was always ready to stop Lacey self harm.
• At the end of act 3 when he leaves, does he leave of his own free will? no, it is mental health issues, imagine how much more powerful and character defining the whole thing would be if it came from his desperation and under his control.
• When the drug plan is concocted and brought to life, the maximum reaction we have from him is "I am disappointed", considering that Anna lied to him anyway, since she had a direct involvement (she is the one that sends Lacey home lying that those were orders from Veronica).
• Mia does bs? All cool.
• Abby does bs? All cool, actually let him apologize because why not.

So yeah, I do not see MC as a well written character in general, he does have some consistency and some of his ailments are portrayed very well, but he is an dashcam more than a character.

For what I was referring to, I meant that what Lacey does in college is different from what she does now, the motivations and even the acts are different.

As for his breakdown, he is probably seeing his fears that Lacey's actions don't do much to help.
Vegas is not a small oopsie, it is a major fuck up with some pretty heavy implications.




Amen.

Perhaps all of this is leading the MC to realize that he's the wrong man for Lacey and to be the "right" man for Lacey he needs to abandon all sense of self and become someone completely different. Which is what he will have to do for the two of them to have what the dev will consider a happy ending, I suppose. I don't see how the MC may remain the MC as we know him (personality, psyche, etc.) and coexist in what I would consider a happy loving relationship with Lacey. That's just... ...sad.

Everything that happens is the MC's fault, especially when it isn't. Soon we will learn that everything that happened in Vegas was his fault, tool. His only purpose in this story is to allow Lacey to do Lacey things.

I understand that it's the dev's product and he gets to write it his way... ...but I continue to be frustrated by knowing that no matter how bad the marriage becomes and no matter how desperate the MC's condition becomes... ...he will not be allowed to separate from the primary impediment to his healing. Whomever suggested the lobotomy for the MC earlier in this thread got it right.

 

[funnythings3785]

She even says it herself: His jealousy (aka pain) gets her off. That's the whole reason for the bar-flirting event.

Yes, but she hates, literally hates the aftermath of it. You are right, she absolutely craves his misery when she is making him jealous.

Personally, I don't think the whole cucking video incident was a result of her not realizing how she would be on K again, or anything along those lines. My theory is, the thought of knowing how much she would be making him jealous, how insanely in misery he would be in the moment got her so hot and bothered that she just let loose and that is why ALL the rules were broken because she knew every single broken rule meant he was suffering beyond belief and that is candy to her.

What she hates is seeing the consequence of her actions, the results of him in misery after her "high" is over with, having to deal with the fallout, the sadness and despair.

I still think whether she admits it or not, Lacey would love to have it where she could cuck him in the most hurtful ways, see him suffer in the moment, then have him massively angry, take her home and punish her near to death with extreme brutal sex... ending with them falling asleep in each others arms and him waking the next day with no thought or care to what happened.

If she could have his pain and suffering without the consequences later, I think she would eat it right up.

 

[Lady Lydia]

I get your position, but lets consider that your premise is literally "don't accept what they say, assume what they mean".

Usually a good writer will use foreshadow, hinting at various character motives and the like. So far, I haven't seen the professor follow this, rather it is as we have been discussing, chaotic, without reason and abrupt likely due to shoe horning characters into states for the sake of the scenes.

So until I see some specific development to that form of writing I am going to stick with taking the words as they are written to establish motive and intent.

One of the problem with reliability in this story is embodied by Lacey, what she says and what she do doesn't mesh together, its why in this story in particular I don't really trust anything. When you look at everything she says and you look at everything she does, their is a significant divergence, for somebody that doesn't want to hurt her husband she spend an absurd amount of time doing it. This goes with the perpetual praises the characters do of Lacey's supposed growth, when what we see of said growth compared to what we see of her callousness is pretty heavily leaning toward callousness.

In a normal story, where characters have proved to be reliable I would give the benefit of the doubt to what is said, but in this game? Yea not doing to do that, I assume anything that is said can very much be either lies, delusion or truth. With Truth representing at most 33% chances it mean 66% of chances are that what is said is bullshit, in particular from Lacey.

 

[WannabeShady90]

Personally, I don't think the whole cucking video incident was a result of her not realizing how she would be on K again, or anything along those lines. My theory is, the thought of knowing how much she would be making him jealous, how insanely in misery he would be in the moment got her so hot and bothered that she just let loose and that is why ALL the rules were broken because she knew every single broken rule meant he was suffering beyond belief and that is candy to her.

Exactly. 100% correct. That is how her brain is hard-wired thanks to the abuse she had to suffer through. But she isn't mentally stable enough to face the demons in the abyss that is her psyche.

 

[NewGuy2022]

That is part of the frustrating thing about the MC. He has awareness in most things. He can see the lies, tell when he is being manipulated and reasons this (outside of his constant turn to blame himself) as a serious problem. He just never acts to it to any ultimate result.

It is why I can respect his character in that (at least up to Act 3), but hate him and think him completely retarded because like I said, he never puts his thoughts to any action.

While he degrades over the course of the acts, Act 3 is... well... a really crappy representation of him in all aspects. Even his mindset, his inner voice begins to give up, ignore, and excuse things which when you combine that with Lacey's change, it is really devastating and makes Lacey look like a complete pile of shit (as well as the other girls), yeah... I know she kind of is all things considered and it makes the MC look like some super cuck toy for them to get their thrills on.

It would be counter to his character, but the suggestion of him hard cucking all the girls with an new character he meets while he is away actually sounds kind of appealing.

After Act 3 I don't understand what his character is anymore. Little, if anything, in this story shocks me any more. I'd love to see an assertive MC, too, but Lacey wouldn't like that and we know the story really is about what Lacey wants...

Yes, but she hates, literally hates the aftermath of it. You are right, she absolutely craves his misery when she is making him jealous.

Personally, I don't think the whole cucking video incident was a result of her not realizing how she would be on K again, or anything along those lines. My theory is, the thought of knowing how much she would be making him jealous, how insanely in misery he would be in the moment got her so hot and bothered that she just let loose and that is why ALL the rules were broken because she knew every single broken rule meant he was suffering beyond belief and that is candy to her.

If she could have his pain and suffering without the consequences later, I think she would eat it right up.

Yep.

For me, the reason why she uses K is because she knows being high will allow her to do what she wants (cause MC pain) without immediate regret (no inhibitions) and will give her an excuse when it's over, "it don't count when you're high." She knows the effect K has on her yet she uses it knowingly.

I agree with you that she really craves the "reclaiming" sex. To be honest, reclaiming sex is part of the kink of sharing, as I understand it.

It is a reasonable assumption, but... as it is always... will this come to be the reality of her character or will it end up... well... being ignored while some resolution is given that completely ignores everything to force a specific state the professor is focused on.

Unless or until I see something otherwise, I nearly always defer to the latter.

 

[funnythings3785]

One of the problem with reliability in this story is embodied by Lacey, what she says and what she do doesn't mesh together, its why in this story in particular I don't really trust anything. When you look at everything she says and you look at everything she does, their is a significant divergence, for somebody that doesn't want to hurt her husband she spend an absurd amount of time doing it. This goes with the perpetual praises the characters do of Lacey's supposed growth, when what we see of said growth compared to what we see of her callousness is pretty heavily leaning toward callousness.

In a normal story, where characters have proved to be reliable I would give the benefit of the doubt to what is said, but in this game? Yea not doing to do that, I assume anything that is said can very much be either lies, delusion or truth. With Truth representing at most 33% chances it mean 66% of chances are that what is said is bullshit, in particular from Lacey.

Agreed, which is why I simply theorize things, but don't put much weight to them. I try to stick to what is said, mainly because that is all we have to go by and the professors style of writing in the moment, while inconsistent does at the least set the value of the character in those moments.

The problem is when he changes drastically... is it a foreshadow? Is it some ultimate reveal? Or is it him simply "writing in the moment"? If it is in the moment, every theory on unrevealed motives is really just wild assumptions.

The reality, we won't know what the reality is until the story ends... then we will see if there is some meaning to the changes or if they were just a bunch of random scenes the professor was making and then decided to end the story on some other random idea that serves his purpose.

 

[DeviantFun]

She even says it herself: His jealousy (aka pain) gets her off. That's the whole reason for the bar-flirting event.

Hmmm, I am not sure about this, she is definitely an emotional vampire that feeds on MC's strong emotions (love, anger, jealousy etc) and this is stated in the material.

She enjoying his pain has not been confirmed yet, quite the opposite.

But who knows, since act 3 started everything we sort of knew about her got spun around, so this might be a point that will come up with the whole "resentment" part.

Personally, I don't think the whole cucking video incident was a result of her not realizing how she would be on K again, or anything along those lines. My theory is, the thought of knowing how much she would be making him jealous, how insanely in misery he would be in the moment got her so hot and bothered that she just let loose and that is why ALL the rules were broken because she knew every single broken rule meant he was suffering beyond belief and that is candy to her.

This I have theorized too, since the explanation was very....weak for me (thanks to MC I love sex now so K does not disassociate me anymore, like it is a fucking choice , you get enough K you disassociate, that is it.), but I stuck with the material knowing that the drug portrayal is....creative.

Now that we have some OS info, it could have been the OS influence flaring up under K.

 

[funnythings3785]

Exactly. 100% correct. That is how her brain is hard-wired thanks to the abuse she had to suffer through. But she isn't mentally stable enough to face the demons in the abyss that is her psyche.

It is a reasonable assumption, but... as it is always... will this come to be the reality of her character or will it end up... well... being ignored while some resolution is given that completely ignores everything to force a specific state the professor is focused on.

 

[funnythings3785]

This I have theorized too, since the explanation was very....weak for me (thanks to MC I love sex now so K does not disassociate me anymore, like it is a fucking choice , you get enough K you disassociate, that is it.), but I stuck with the material knowing that the drug portrayal is....creative.

Now that we have some OS info, it could have been the OS influence flaring up under K.

Yeah, it is hard to really say. I have given up on any specific direction due to the massive writing changes, so who knows, this could all be memory holed by Act 4 and what we see after that is a different Lacey.

It really is so confusing.