Ren'Py Lust Theory [S3 E4] [Inceton Games]

[Penfold Mole]

Well, thing is LGPL allows proprietary software to use libraries licensed under it, but proprietary software has to be separated. That's why most of such software actually uses system wide shared libraries. If they ship said libraries with software, then it qualifies as derivative work, and by letter of LGPL cant be copyrighted. If you take any RenPy game, it has said libraries shipped with it, under libs. It doesn't use system wide shared libraries.


RenPy is not LGPL licensed, it's licensed under MIT, yet for purpose of LGPL, it's derivative work of LGPL, and precisely because of it, all requirements of LGPL have to be met. Actually, RenPy

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about it.


RenPy games, are RenpPy, not product of it, but RenPy which runs series of pictures and text.


What they can copyright?
Characters? I am not sure they can.
Their code contributions? It's already open sourced. IE, it's enough to decompile rpc and rpa files, and you can see everything, reverse engineer and what's not. Not to mention it's shipped and cant work without LGPL libraries.
Story... well yes. But it has to be separated in order to


Well, yes, but if they extract their own work from , there is no the game. Why somebody of those actually making a lot of money, like Summertime Saga or ICSTOR never tried to claim copyright?
PS; for automatic part. I already wrote about it. Berne convention does not mention software, not surprisingly as it's legal document of XIX century. Some countries, like US or Germany, interpret software as literary works, but it's applicable only in those countries. That's actually how piracy works, as soon as software is not linked with US DMCA complaints are simply ignored, but I digress here.

As Ren'Py team suggests:

Although we are unable to provide legal advice, we believe compliance can be achieved by including a copy of this license with every copy of Ren'Py you distribute, and linking to this license from your project's README file or App Store description. We suggest using the wording:

This program contains free software licensed under a number of licenses, including the GNU Lesser General Public License. A complete list of software is available at

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.

This should be enough to achieve compliance with everything that Ren'Py includes to every game distribution package.

Many commercial software products are shipped with libraries protected by LGPL. They do mention those libraries in their licences and have added LGPL licence to their documentation. These libraries can easily be separated from the rest of the files, as they exist as separate files or folders.

In every Ren'Py game distribution package the libraries, Ren'Py code and game files are placed into clearly separate folders/directories, so that all binaries, including LGPL'd ones can easily be separated from the rest of the files. Although

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that "For proprietary software, code under the LGPL is usually used in the form of a shared library" does not mean that this is always the case.

I believe that image and script files distributed with Ren'Py by default in the "Standard version" inside the 'game' subfolder should be covered by the Artistic Licence included to other licences on the Ren'Py web page.

Everything that a game dev creates (scripts, images, animations, sounds) is protected by copyright from the moment of creation in the EU:

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For example, DAZ model files belong to their creators, but an image file that uses these models belongs to the person who combined those files and positioned the models and rendered the image. In a Ren'Py game distribution package those files are placed into a separate folder or rpa archive file.
Those image files are copyrighted to their creator, as well as all the script files he created.

 

[Leon7682]

86%!!!!

 

[Thermophob]

Many commercial software products are shipped with libraries protected by LGPL. They do mention those libraries in their licences and have added LGPL licence to their documentation. These libraries can easily be separated from the rest of the files, as they exist as separate files or folders.

Well, my whole point is that you cant separate those libraries from random RenPy game. I mean, RenPy itself cant be separated from those libraries. LGPL makes difference between a software that uses a library, and one that is derivative work.
Here is the paragraph from LGPL:

4. Combined Works.

You may convey a Combined Work under terms of your choice that, taken together, effectively do not restrict modification of the portions of the Library contained in the Combined Work and reverse engineering for debugging such modifications, if you also do each of the following:

• a) Give prominent notice with each copy of the Combined Work that the Library is used in it and that the Library and its use are covered by this License.
• b) Accompany the Combined Work with a copy of the GNU GPL and this license document.
• c) For a Combined Work that displays copyright notices during execution, include the copyright notice for the Library among these notices, as well as a reference directing the user to the copies of the GNU GPL and this license document.
• d) Do one of the following:
  • 0) Convey the Minimal Corresponding Source under the terms of this License, and the Corresponding Application Code in a form suitable for, and under terms that permit, the user to recombine or relink the Application with a modified version of the Linked Version to produce a modified Combined Work, in the manner specified by section 6 of the GNU GPL for conveying Corresponding Source.
  • 1) Use a suitable shared library mechanism for linking with the Library. A suitable mechanism is one that (a) uses at run time a copy of the Library already present on the user's computer system, and (b) will operate properly with a modified version of the Library that is interface-compatible with the Linked Version.
• e) Provide Installation Information, but only if you would otherwise be required to provide such information under section 6 of the GNU GPL, and only to the extent that such information is necessary to install and execute a modified version of the Combined Work produced by recombining or relinking the Application with a modified version of the Linked Version. (If you use option 4d0, the Installation Information must accompany the Minimal Corresponding Source and Corresponding Application Code. If you use option 4d1, you must provide the Installation Information in the manner specified by section 6 of the GNU GPL for conveying Corresponding Source.)

Now, what of following any RenPy creator implements? I am not trying to be smartass here, but vast majority of them don't even have enough of knowledge to implement point d0) or d1) (Which would made it for them possible to copyright a game. They chose RenPy precisely because it's doesn't require advanced programming knowledge. They are for most part 3d artists.
PS, as you may see it mentions copyright notices. We played hundreds of games here, I don't know single RenPy game with copyright notices.

Everything that a game dev creates (scripts, images, animations, sounds) is protected by copyright from the moment of creation in the EU:

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And outside of EU it depends on agreements of EU and other governments. Anyway, it's not major issue here.

For example, DAZ model files belong to their creators, but an image file that uses these models belongs to the person who combined those files and positioned the models and rendered the image.

I don't know under what kind of license DAZ models are published, and what rights customer gets with purchase of model. Many people are guessing here, me included, but unless we actually see, it's only guessing.

 

[Thermophob]

You can say whatever you want...

Bro, same goes to you.

 

[Darth Vengeant]

If you have any mods installed, the mods will remove the bonus content option from the menu.

Start the game without mods installed, get bonus to unlock. Then install mods. Problem solved.
------------------------

Moving on. Opinion time.

Season One was great. But, with Season Two I feel the game has gone off track and is wasting time on too many side characters and events. I stopped my wallet support until the game gets back on track, if it does. The game should have stayed focused on the main 5 and stayed with them. Mom, two sisters, cosplay friend from school, and the teacher. I don't give a rip about anyone else frankly. The entire Party scenes and updates related to it were an utter waste of time. I get tired of these games having too much bloat and too many characters. You wait and wait and wait, sometimes for months on end of updates, to get back to the characters and story you actually care about. I prefer games with a few characters and stay focused on them and the story. Not 10000 side characters and events, it just ruins the emersion and story. It becomes unfocused. Convoluted.

I hope we get back to the Mom soon, because I am tired of waiting.

 

[HorttoKaalo]

I hope we get back to the Mom soon, because I am tired of waiting.

Won't happen any time soon since she has the most lewd content out of all characters so far. For example the older sister hasn't even got the dusts knocked out of her twat yet and it's already over the half way of second season. Meanwhile the new blonde girl has gotten more action in last one and a half episodes than most of the main girls in nearly two full seasons. Pacing is not the strength of the second season.

 

[Dr. Javi]

I think we need a copyright lawyer in this thread.

 

[MrMax]

Story: 100%
Renders: 100%
Animations: 95%
Code: 40%
Total:90%

They might actually pull it off - still got 3 days to go

 

[HorttoKaalo]

Story: 100%
Renders: 100%
Animations: 95%
Code: 40%
Total:90%

They might actually pull it off - still got 3 days to go

They don't work on weekends though, so it's either tomorrow or then next week.

 

[gelu123]

They don't work on weekends though, so it's either tomorrow or then next week.

Best bet is monday patreon release , tuesday here

 

[HorttoKaalo]

Best bet is monday patreon release , tuesday here

Monday on patreon, Thursday here.

 

[Felicityskye]

I don't know under what kind of license DAZ models are published, and what rights customer gets with purchase of model. Many people are guessing here, me included, but unless we actually see, it's only guessing.

You can literally look up the licenses for DAZ models. When you purchase any 3D content from Daz, it already comes with standard license.

What the Standard License Agreement covers:
Whenever you purchase 3D Content from Daz, it comes with certain rights that allow you to use that content. Some of those rights include the ability to:

1. Render Images
2. Render Videos
3. Render HDRIs and/or Virtual Reality (VR) scenes

Any of these that you produce and render out are completely owned by you, so you can use them commercially, modify them, sell them, or promote them, as protected by the

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(

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). This is because the end product is a render (your individual artwork) of the 3D Model, as opposed to the actual 3D Content.

Every image in Echoes of Lust, IS a render. Inceton aren't using the ACTUAL model they purchased in the game. The game actually has no assets, it is all rendered images which belongs to Inceton. If Inceton made a game like House Party, where you actively control an actual in-game model of the 3D content you purchased, they would need an Interactive license.

When you should get an Interactive License:
Certain applications of models from Daz 3D require an Interactive License if you want to use that product in a particular way. Any app, game, or video game where the model changes depending on what a user does requires an Interactive License (example: if the 3D Model moves, bends, or walks based on an action the user of that app or game makes).

Because apps and games redistribute un-rendered versions of the 3D Model you’ve purchased to alter and manipulate it, they’re not covered by the Standard License Agreement (

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) and require that you purchase an Interactive License (with only one notable exception — if you are using the content for a game engine that will not be distributed, in which case the

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is sufficient). While plenty of 3D Content from Daz comes with an Interactive License option, select items do not — the creator of each product chooses whether or not to offer an Interactive License.

Read the full rights of the

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here. More details on Interactive License can be found in Section 3.0. If no Interactive License options are offered for a product, it is not an option for using in an app, game, or video game (as a 3D model). Unless otherwise specified, these licenses are not eligible for returns or refunds.

Do you now understand the difference? Render of the model vs Actual use of the model are not the same thing.

 

[Aristos]

Hey, someone please ping me as soon as the update is uploaded. 15 mins late and there ain't none for you to download any more

 

[huyan1995]

Do you guys have girls's voice ? i try to reset the game but there no voice like season 1? Help pls thanks

 

[HorttoKaalo]

Do you guys have girls's voice ? i try to reset the game but there no voice like season 1? Help pls thanks

Season 2 doesn’t have voice acting yet, that will be added when the season is done.

 

[Penfold Mole]

Actually, not. From the EULA:

Author can sell the models with his game, but for any other way of sale or purchase he needs written consent of DAZ.


Also this (not directly connected, but it shows DAZ retains copyrights:

What you quoted from EULA is about DAZ CRT Content - the actual interactive 3D models or model data and incorporating it into user applications and making either 2D or 3D products (renders or 3D prints or whatever) using those applications.
For example, an actual 3D game has a 3D character in it that moves around and is rendered on the screen in real time. Or an application similar to 3D DAZ has a DAZ model incorporated into it and the application user can pose the model there and make 2D or 3D prints or renders using this application.

You left out the part that explains what that "CRT Content" actually is:

3.0 Interactive License Addendum

The terms of this addendum 3.0 are in force only when User has purchased a "Game Develoer License" or an "Interactive License Add-On" from the online DAZ store.

For any User who has purchased one or more Game Developer Licenses the terms of this Addendum 3.0 apply to all Content that the User has purchased a license to via the DAZ store where the "Artist" field of the Content contains a list of one or more Artist Names, and that the User has also purchased Game Developer Licenses such that the User has purchased a Game Developer License for each of the Artist Names represented in the Artist Name field of the Content.

For any User who has purchased one or more Interactive Add-On Licenses via the DAZ store, the terms of this Addendum 3.0 apply to all Content that the User has purchased such an Interactive Add-On License for.

In the case of Game Developer Licenses where the Artist Name for that license is "Daz Originals". The terms of this section 3.0 apply to all content which also contains "Daz Originals" in the Artist Name, regardless of the presence of additional artist names also in that field.

All Content that can be identified according to the above criteria shall hereinafter be referred to as "CRT Content". The terms of this addendum 3.0 do not apply to any other Content.

None of the Ren'Py or other 3D CG games contain any interactive 3D models. They contain only 2D renders of those models.

The part of EULA about it is in the beginning:

1.0 General License Agreement.

• Spoiler

  You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
• Terms of Use. Two Dimensional Works. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, User may (i) access, use, copy and modify the Content in the creation and presentation of two-dimensional animations and renderings, (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived by User from the Content in User's other works, and (iii) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense User's two-dimensional animations, renderings and other works; provided that User may not in any case publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the Content can be separately exported, extracted or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format.

Content (NOT the CRT Content) in this case = DAZ 3D model (model data)

 

[Thermophob]

What you quoted from EULA is about DAZ CRT Content - the actual interactive 3D models or model data and incororating it into user applications and making either 2D or 3D products (renders or 3D prints or whatever) using those applications.
For example, an actual 3D game has a 3D character in it that moves around and is rendered on the screen in real time. Or an application similar to 3D DAZ has a DAZ model incorporated into it and the application user can pose the model there and make 2D or 3D prints or renders using this application.

You left out the part that explains what that "CRT Content" actually is:



None of the Ren'Py or other 3D CG games contain any interactive 3D models. They contain only 2D renders of those models.

The part of EULA about it is in the beginning:



Content (NOT the CRT Content) in this case = DAZ 3D model (model data)

Look, I don't really think we are getting anywhere with this discussion. That's why I deleted it. I certainly have other things to do than discuss legal issues on pirate forum.

 

[Penfold Mole]

I didn't start this debate, I just tried to correct obvious mistakes.
I'm really not interested about correcting your misconceptions, either. Thanks for realizing when to quit.
Peace out!

 

[Felicityskye]

Look, I don't really think we are getting anywhere with this discussion. That's why I deleted it. I certainly have other things to do than discuss legal issues on pirate forum.

Of course we aren't getting anywhere because you seem to be unable to grasp something as simple as a photo/snapshot/image of something is not the same as the actual use of that something. And then proceeded to misquote the EULA in an attempt to disprove what was said. It is hilarious that you now use that excuse to back out of the discussion that you started and continued for over 2 weeks.

 

[Thermophob]

Of course we aren't getting anywhere because you seem to be unable to grasp something as simple as a photo/snapshot/image of something is not the same as the actual use of that something. And then proceeded to misquote the EULA. It is hilarious that you now use that excuse to back out of the discussion that you started and continued for over 2 weeks.

For most part I was discussing about RenPy and LGPL. How do fuck it has to do with EULA (which you brought today)?
Now, relax.