I really liked it, although if the protagonist were more voluptuous it would be perfect. Of course, that's just my humble opinion. Even so, it's a great game.
- Thread starter N7
- Start date
The thing is, at least in this particular case, I can't speak for their other projects (though the fact that they fired Embercat instead of just removing him from Lust Theory and letting him continue Lust Bound doesn't bode well) is that the "dumbass gonzo-fuckfest" is actively what they want. It's what they consider their "style" I guess, so it's totally incompatible. Try to stray too far from "rando gets lucky with a bunch of hotties" and you're straying from their style. And especially for their flagship title, Lust Theory, that ended up grinding gears upstairs.As usual, dysfunctional teams tend to isolate and then fire their most creative members, the ones with the best ideas, who are not yes-men flattering the boss's ego but instead scare him because he fears they might outshine him.
The paradox is that the best people end up going to the competition, and instead of being assets, they become threats.
Inceton is digging its own grave by sacking all writers who can write a meaningful story instead of a dumbass gonzo-fuckfest.
Tbf to them it worked for the first game and they've been trying to recapture that lightning in the bottle for ages. To this day people argue that they miss the fun hijinks of LT1.
Zorro#34
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Lol, just as Inceton has begun to get back in F95's good graces, they go ahead and fire Embercat whose efforts largely made it possible.
The only bright spot I see is that they retconned S2's crazy ending before Embercat came along, meaning they probably do see it as a screw-up. Still, he did his damnedest to make the characters as deep as possible, and that may be missing from here on out.
The only bright spot I see is that they retconned S2's crazy ending before Embercat came along, meaning they probably do see it as a screw-up. Still, he did his damnedest to make the characters as deep as possible, and that may be missing from here on out.
Yeah, I loved Lust Theory Season 1, BUT... They just cannot stretch a groundhog day plot beyond one season.
It just doesn't work.
I think the feedback from their fanbase for the second half of Season 2 (the threesome with yourself nonsense, and the idiotic "nothing was real" plot twist) was vastly negative.
In fact pledgers vastly voted for a Season 3 just to retcon that disappointing finale.
The "groundhog no fuck given happy day" has been already stretched beyond any reasonable limit in Season 2.
To make things right in Season 3 they only had two options:
1) write a deeper story with some character development as Embercat was doing well
OR
2) just don't do it!
Going back to gonzo-fuckfest after 60%-70% of Season 3 has been trying hard to construct a story... Is just gathering the worst of two worlds, disappointing both us looking for a story and folks looking for just nonsense lewd scenes.
Jeez... I really hope they will not ditch Embercat story development plans now, otherwise they will deliver a neither-fish-nor-fowl product.
Do they though? Here's the thing. If my theory is right, that ending happened because they did to the old writer, the very same thing they're doing to Embercat (minus the firing).Lol, just as Inceton has begun to get back in F95's good graces, they go ahead and fire Embercat whose efforts largely made it possible.
The only bright spot I see is that they retconned S2's crazy ending before Embercat came along, meaning they probably do see it as a screw-up. Still, he did his damnedest to make the characters as deep as possible, and that may be missing from here on out.
If you'll remember before LT2 went to shit, it was going through the most meaningful character progression (and dynamics) in the series (MC deciding to reject both Zoe and Megan to preserve their friendship leading to the threesome where they're unknowingly competing for his affections), then Ellie telling MC he's alone since he's been in these loops for so long.
And then immediately AFTER it went to shit, it goes back to THE most meaningful character moments in the series, the goodbye stories which singlehandedly salvage the ending.
So what gives? Why is the dumbest plot point known to man sandwiched between these two interesting story beats? Probably because the writer was told to stop fucking around giving the characters depth and make them fuck more (and probably someone else wrote that part).
Honestly that chick was wronged bad, spend enough time in these games and you'll see that while she's not perfect, she does have a much better understanding of where to take this story than she gets credit for.
Now they got trashed for that ending so she got to start S3 and SHE made the decision to set it up in such an interesting way, but then she was gone. Embercat has done a stellar job carrying it over but now basically the same shit is happening here. So, look, I don't know what they'll do, Embercat is right, it might still turn out okay, but it just doesn't bode well for now.
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Zorro#34
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I started playing AVNs (and LT in particular, it was my 3rd AVN) after LT2 was done but before LT3 got its first release, so I faced all those S2 ups and downs in one row without long pauses. I wasn't into the 'saving friendship' storyline, as I thought it was OOC for the MC, but it all went to shit after that, I agree. Even the epilogues, while nice, didn't quite salvage the ending for me. I don't know anything about the previous writer, so I can't assume what he was and wasn't responsible for. Still, retconning S2 and hiring a 'character first' writer in Embercat didn't appear out of nowhere, it was company policy, so I don't think we're gonna sink S2 level again… My worries are more limited: whether we'll get any character focused endings rather than a harem fuckfest ending or a forced Alice ending, and whether they can maintain the writing quality. Also, they did Embercat dirty, he deserved to conclude this story.
Agreed, 1000%. LT1 was never meant to be a standalone game, it literally ends on a cliffhanger and cuts off most girls' stories but LT2, outside of its weird ending is HUGE in terms of content, especially when you factor in all the hidden events etc. which actually deepen the story.Yeah, I loved Lust Theory Season 1, BUT... They just cannot stretch a groundhog day plot beyond one season.
It just doesn't work.
I think the feedback from their fanbase for the second half of Season 2 (the threesome with yourself nonsense, and the idiotic "nothing was real" plot twist) was vastly negative.
In fact pledgers vastly voted for a Season 3 just to retcon that disappointing finale.
The "groundhog no fuck given happy day" has been already stretched beyond any reasonable limit in Season 2.
To make things right in Season 3 they only had two options:
1) write a deeper story with some character development as Embercat was doing well
OR
2) just don't do it!
Going back to gonzo-fuckfest after 60%-70% of Season 3 has been trying hard to construct a story... Is just gathering the worst of two worlds, disappointing both us looking for a story and folks looking for just nonsense lewd scenes.
Jeez... I really hope they will not ditch Embercat story development plans now, otherwise they will deliver a neither-fish-nor-fowl product.
It exhausted the groundhogg day scenario but what it gave us instead is character. There's a distinct shift in storytelling during the second game to focus on the characters (just look at Ellie and Nicole between the two games for an example). And because we see them in so many permutations of the same few situations plus a few extra, you really feel like you got to know them.
So, actually shifting the stakes to these characters and our relationships with them in the third game was 1000% the right move, along with injecting a breath of fresh air to the timeloop mystery which was done with the introduction of Alice and attempted (now shot) deepening of Carol.
Again, I gotta give the previous writer, Vivix, credit, that's all her. She KNEW what that story needed and did all the right moves to put it in the best possible state to revive interest. The intro which she wrote is still overall the best part of LT3 (though it has some tough competition now), simply because of how strong of a setup it is and that's all on her.
Embercat then came in and had the near impossible task of catching up on the series and picking up on all the setups laid by the previous writer, while said writer was GONE and left no indication on where he was taking this (that's so weird btw, hence my theory). And somehow the madman fucking did it, actually. And then some. Except now Embercat is also gone.
So yeah, I agree that porn games that don't take themselves too seriously have their audience, but A. that's not the THIRD installement of a series (even the Mia games understood this) and B. You can't shoehorn a story that wasn't that into this box on the last stretch.
I also hope they keep at least some of Embercat's story but considering they probably fired him for the very reason that they didn't like his story choices, again, not holding my breath.
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Ihave been seen Inceton games Lancelot online on discord I have asking him for comment what hapened to Embercat. He say he writing story now he will give comment later.
Since it has been suggested that Lancelot will comment later, and I would like the opportunity to defend myself against any accusations or statements made, I have decided to share the communication Lancelot sent when I was fired. I feel his exact message to me will be the most transparent and truthful account, and avoid any guessing or possibility of the matter being dressed up or written in any kind of PR manner. As I always try to do, I will include and own up to areas where I feel I dropped the ball, by showing the message verbatim, but I will give my own defense to some of his issues below.
Issues 1 to 6 were the primary reasons I was removed from the project. As is evident, he pretty much dislikes everything about the game by his own admission. My NSFW Scenes are bad. I overclock the dev team asking for resources. I fail to meet deadlines. I message too much.
To those accusations, I have the following thoughts.
The game is boring - By Lancelot's own admission, he dislikes everything I have done with LT3. This is his opinion. I will not try to argue a point here; this is his opinion, but he took a real dislike to my tendency to let the characters engage in meaningful, long conversations and taking time with scenes rather than rushing them.
NSFW Scenes are Boring and do not use Lust Time - Straight away, I will own up, I have not really gotten on or managed to make any real use of Lust Time at all. I made several attempts, especially after it was made clear to me that the game REQUIRED it. However, I do not really understand the company's fascination with Lust Time and find it counterintuitive to making unique and memorable scenes. Forcing the Sex Scenes into circular boxes of increased speed and intensity and changing positions creates a very linear sex scene, in my opinion, and it was hard for me to adapt to. A good example would be Megan and Zoe's threesome scene, where the sex is frequently interrupted for conversation, bonding, and humor. I will own not being able to write effectively. To Lust Time was a requirement set for me, and each attempt was deemed bad, leading to the scenes being presented as I originally wrote them. As for whether my scenes are boring, I will leave that to the players to decide. If the majority agrees, then Lancelot is right, I guess.
To the matter of making too many requests of the dev team for resources, they have an extensive library and while some of my scenes could not be realised, many things I asked for were available and could have been used for purpose. The 300 Render Explanation noted comes near the ending of the game and essentially involves MC discovering the reasons for the Timeloops and the final revelations of the game. (I will not comment on what these were in case they do end up keeping my original idea. Needless to say, explaining the reasons behind 3 seasons worth of content is no easy or quick feat and Lancelot and I were at odds where he felt the reasons and deep dive into the reason for the story was not as necessary as keeping scenes condensed, fast paced and 'not boring'.
Finally, to the matter of missed deadlines, this is a gray area where I will own I messed up, but also not without just reason. As soon as Lancelot took over editing in the Summer, there was a lot he wanted to see done differently. I made promises for the game to be finished by certain deadlines and failed to meet them. That being said, these deadlines were continually hampered by shifting goalposts from Lancelot e.g - being told one week I needed to focus on adding bonus events to every week's, and having to plan that, only for a week later him to decide shelve the idea entirely. Meanwhile, his desire to rein in my writing and make it less boring also forced me to make a lot of changes and cut down sections of routes. Essentially, deadlines were missed, and I was maybe always a little optimistic in my estimation of how quickly I could finish things. BUT Lancelot's demands and wants for changes did not help matters here. At the end of the day, as much as I missed some deadlines in terms of finishing the game writing at a set time, I always had each week's writing ready and up to be released week on week for months. The only true delay we've had has been in the last fortnight, when Lancelot decided he really didn't like my Alice route path and Ending to the game.
As for messaging loads... I will admit to that. I message the devs a lot. I'm a remote worker not based on sight and I care enough to ask questions, give detailed explanations, and ask for review, thoughts etc. Lancelot was never very keen on my communication style, and at one point, even banned me from messaging him anything over 50 words in length over Discord, as he'd refuse to read it. It made communication very hard and, while I appreciate he is a busy man as the CEO of a company, I also only cared to message often and with detail because I cared about the game I was creating and wanted to involve and check things frequently.
I hope this will serve as a clear and honest record of events and why I was let go. I truly was not sure about whether or not to post this, but, knowing that a statement would be released and reflecting on what might be said if I did not give my piece, could be damaging to my career if I did not see what was said.
For further disclosure, after enclosed message, which I found very rude and hostile, even with the context included, I tried to remain polite and civil. Lancelot then offered me a very limited and extremely adhoc 'creative consultants' position with the company, stating that he still really likes my ideas, something I found difficult to swallow with his message enclosed in view.
I took time to think the offered position through and an offer he made that I could still contribute anything I had that would help toward the ending if I wished (presumably free of charge since I'd been fired). I struggled to formulate a reply to this over Saturday, and wrote and sent a few messages that I then deleted as I wanted to be sure of my answer and my wording, again, wanting to stay civil and respectful. The result of all that was a hostile and message with expletives telling me to stop blowing up his phone with messages I instantly deleted (showing very little concern for the fact that I was wrestling with having been fired the previous day and trying to come to terms with being removed from TWO projects I was passionate about, and close to the holiday season (a bad time for anyone to be fired).
I do not post this here to start any kind of war or as a vindictive act. As said already, I have been reticent to send this at all, but knowing that a statement will be made by the company at some point, and knowing too that I may not have another chance to defend myself against anything said, I felt posting my firing memo the best course of action to give as truthful an account of the decision as I can, one that acknowledges my failings (as I am not perfect) but also can serve to defend against anything else that might be said about me.
Issues 1 to 6 were the primary reasons I was removed from the project. As is evident, he pretty much dislikes everything about the game by his own admission. My NSFW Scenes are bad. I overclock the dev team asking for resources. I fail to meet deadlines. I message too much.
To those accusations, I have the following thoughts.
The game is boring - By Lancelot's own admission, he dislikes everything I have done with LT3. This is his opinion. I will not try to argue a point here; this is his opinion, but he took a real dislike to my tendency to let the characters engage in meaningful, long conversations and taking time with scenes rather than rushing them.
NSFW Scenes are Boring and do not use Lust Time - Straight away, I will own up, I have not really gotten on or managed to make any real use of Lust Time at all. I made several attempts, especially after it was made clear to me that the game REQUIRED it. However, I do not really understand the company's fascination with Lust Time and find it counterintuitive to making unique and memorable scenes. Forcing the Sex Scenes into circular boxes of increased speed and intensity and changing positions creates a very linear sex scene, in my opinion, and it was hard for me to adapt to. A good example would be Megan and Zoe's threesome scene, where the sex is frequently interrupted for conversation, bonding, and humor. I will own not being able to write effectively. To Lust Time was a requirement set for me, and each attempt was deemed bad, leading to the scenes being presented as I originally wrote them. As for whether my scenes are boring, I will leave that to the players to decide. If the majority agrees, then Lancelot is right, I guess.
To the matter of making too many requests of the dev team for resources, they have an extensive library and while some of my scenes could not be realised, many things I asked for were available and could have been used for purpose. The 300 Render Explanation noted comes near the ending of the game and essentially involves MC discovering the reasons for the Timeloops and the final revelations of the game. (I will not comment on what these were in case they do end up keeping my original idea. Needless to say, explaining the reasons behind 3 seasons worth of content is no easy or quick feat and Lancelot and I were at odds where he felt the reasons and deep dive into the reason for the story was not as necessary as keeping scenes condensed, fast paced and 'not boring'.
Finally, to the matter of missed deadlines, this is a gray area where I will own I messed up, but also not without just reason. As soon as Lancelot took over editing in the Summer, there was a lot he wanted to see done differently. I made promises for the game to be finished by certain deadlines and failed to meet them. That being said, these deadlines were continually hampered by shifting goalposts from Lancelot e.g - being told one week I needed to focus on adding bonus events to every week's, and having to plan that, only for a week later him to decide shelve the idea entirely. Meanwhile, his desire to rein in my writing and make it less boring also forced me to make a lot of changes and cut down sections of routes. Essentially, deadlines were missed, and I was maybe always a little optimistic in my estimation of how quickly I could finish things. BUT Lancelot's demands and wants for changes did not help matters here. At the end of the day, as much as I missed some deadlines in terms of finishing the game writing at a set time, I always had each week's writing ready and up to be released week on week for months. The only true delay we've had has been in the last fortnight, when Lancelot decided he really didn't like my Alice route path and Ending to the game.
As for messaging loads... I will admit to that. I message the devs a lot. I'm a remote worker not based on sight and I care enough to ask questions, give detailed explanations, and ask for review, thoughts etc. Lancelot was never very keen on my communication style, and at one point, even banned me from messaging him anything over 50 words in length over Discord, as he'd refuse to read it. It made communication very hard and, while I appreciate he is a busy man as the CEO of a company, I also only cared to message often and with detail because I cared about the game I was creating and wanted to involve and check things frequently.
I hope this will serve as a clear and honest record of events and why I was let go. I truly was not sure about whether or not to post this, but, knowing that a statement would be released and reflecting on what might be said if I did not give my piece, could be damaging to my career if I did not see what was said.
For further disclosure, after enclosed message, which I found very rude and hostile, even with the context included, I tried to remain polite and civil. Lancelot then offered me a very limited and extremely adhoc 'creative consultants' position with the company, stating that he still really likes my ideas, something I found difficult to swallow with his message enclosed in view.
I took time to think the offered position through and an offer he made that I could still contribute anything I had that would help toward the ending if I wished (presumably free of charge since I'd been fired). I struggled to formulate a reply to this over Saturday, and wrote and sent a few messages that I then deleted as I wanted to be sure of my answer and my wording, again, wanting to stay civil and respectful. The result of all that was a hostile and message with expletives telling me to stop blowing up his phone with messages I instantly deleted (showing very little concern for the fact that I was wrestling with having been fired the previous day and trying to come to terms with being removed from TWO projects I was passionate about, and close to the holiday season (a bad time for anyone to be fired).
I do not post this here to start any kind of war or as a vindictive act. As said already, I have been reticent to send this at all, but knowing that a statement will be made by the company at some point, and knowing too that I may not have another chance to defend myself against anything said, I felt posting my firing memo the best course of action to give as truthful an account of the decision as I can, one that acknowledges my failings (as I am not perfect) but also can serve to defend against anything else that might be said about me.
James-of-alabama
Member
- Aug 18, 2019
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I think what lancelot likes and not finds Boring is something the avn players dont like.
neub1i
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- Nov 26, 2023
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i find this hilarious. i didnt even like part 1 that much. It was a 5/10, an "OK"- concept, somewhat ambitious, but overall you could see that it was just an idea that wasnt very well thought through and well written. The scenes leave a lot to be desired, especially in this day and age when other good VN creators have implemented animations fused with AI.
Now im being honest, i havent played season 2 completely because i decided to wait for it to be completed, yet reading the comments, i might just skip through.
Even the continuation of another looped day seems horrible to me. He broke the loop, he had sexual encounters with all women in his life, now it would be the perfect time to let it unfold and progress from there, while exploring the fact why it happened. But that's spilled milk under the bridge.
Whatever Lancelot and Embercat were fighting about, in the end i dont care. The game itself is far from being one of the best in the genre and id rather see this title being abandoned to get a new, better, more updated game in the near future, than trying to keep this failed product alive.
A good rule of thumb for any developers out there would be the approach of the Breaking Bad writers: finish the whole story. From start to finish, write whole damn thing.
Then you can plan out each scene, characters, etc.. and maybe change some aspects in the future. But at the end of the line, the core exists. And this game never seemed to have that.
It had an idea for the first chapter, and after its success, they went: "Now what?"
Now im being honest, i havent played season 2 completely because i decided to wait for it to be completed, yet reading the comments, i might just skip through.
Even the continuation of another looped day seems horrible to me. He broke the loop, he had sexual encounters with all women in his life, now it would be the perfect time to let it unfold and progress from there, while exploring the fact why it happened. But that's spilled milk under the bridge.
Whatever Lancelot and Embercat were fighting about, in the end i dont care. The game itself is far from being one of the best in the genre and id rather see this title being abandoned to get a new, better, more updated game in the near future, than trying to keep this failed product alive.
A good rule of thumb for any developers out there would be the approach of the Breaking Bad writers: finish the whole story. From start to finish, write whole damn thing.
Then you can plan out each scene, characters, etc.. and maybe change some aspects in the future. But at the end of the line, the core exists. And this game never seemed to have that.
It had an idea for the first chapter, and after its success, they went: "Now what?"
Well, the main issues seem to be length, renders and pacing.
So uh, I guess we'll have a super fast, not that story heavy conclusion that recycles renders for the....End of the trilogy.
Again, we'll see. I'll withhold judgment until it's out. But my expectations are down to the ground.
So uh, I guess we'll have a super fast, not that story heavy conclusion that recycles renders for the....End of the trilogy.
Again, we'll see. I'll withhold judgment until it's out. But my expectations are down to the ground.
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devonY7
Engaged Member
- Feb 3, 2020
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i think we have known this since he cancelled limits of sky
Basically Lust Time is a bunch of forced clicks that KILLS IMMERSION and constantly remember the player that this is a computer game - forcing him to USE A FUCKING DROP DOWN MENU instead of enjoying a sex scene he can immerse himself in like in a good movie.
Being forced to see and use the GUI kills immersion, like at the movies when the microphone accidentally appears in the frame, it kills the immersion, and I suddenly become aware of the screen and the audience again, realizing that I’m not actually living the experience.
---
Inceton's fascination for Lust Time (or should I say Lancelot's fascination for Lust Time?) can only be explained in terms of "I invented it, so it's good and everybody must use/love it!".
James-of-alabama
Member
- Aug 18, 2019
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One of the most requested mod is the one to disable Lust Time...
...yeah, the audience loves Lust Time...
...yeah, the audience loves Lust Time...
Yeah the fascination with Lust Time is hilarious to me. I mean the rest of his complaints, I can at least rationalize that he's acutely aware that this is a porn game. So he has this view in mind of a player that's like, already with one hand on his dick, waiting for the fucking to start and there's only so much context they can take to enhance the fucking bit before it just becomes boring to them.
Which is all fine and dandy, that's reasonable enough....
...But then that same player has to go through A FUCKING LUST TIME AND
Apparently, in other Inceton games the menu now allows you to select different routes or poses for the sex scenes or something, so it at least serves a purpose now. Again, I haven't tried the "improved" boner killer so idk.One of the most requested mod is the one to disable Lust Time...
...yeah, the audience loves Lust Time...
But so help me god, if we get a shit story because we need more time for fapping material and the fapping material makes you so soft it turns your dick into a NOBLE GAS because of Lust Time...
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Lancelot has send me this. To share if I want.
MrMax
Active Member
- Sep 30, 2017
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Yep - definitely reads like an eastern european ceo message (the difference is that in the eastern bosses cannot fully hide their disdain for their own employees and customers )
The only complaint I get is the location one - even if you have the assets, if it's not a set that you've built before that first setup eats a lot of time unless you want it to look like crap. That + a tight deadline will not work.
But I guess now there's a 0% chance for LT to be finished this year - they'll probably use Embercat's endings since it's easier than anything else at this point. It'll just be pornier than initiallyintended
)The only complaint I get is the location one - even if you have the assets, if it's not a set that you've built before that first setup eats a lot of time unless you want it to look like crap. That + a tight deadline will not work.
But I guess now there's a 0% chance for LT to be finished this year - they'll probably use Embercat's endings since it's easier than anything else at this point. It'll just be pornier than initiallyintended