Ren'Py Lustful Desires [v0.82.0] [Hyao]

[Polarthief]

There has been an update on Hyao's Patreon, but it's no bueno, basically the update is delayed.

The post is not yet leaked, so I only have the preview words:

If anyone could get the actual full post so we could maybe get a timeframe, that would be appreciated.

 

[GoldenStag]

There has been an update on Hyao's Patreon, but it's no bueno, basically the update is delayed.

The post is not yet leaked, so I only have the preview words:
View attachment 3527253
If anyone could get the actual full post so we could maybe get a timeframe, that would be appreciated.

 

[Polarthief]

View attachment 3527266

Much appreciated.
As for the update itself? Hyao, you better deliver, but now with the "I didn't feel like it" mindset I've come to know (and loathe) from Lilith's Throne, that just *feels* foreboding to me... It also means the May update is gonna be devoid of content/it's gonna suck most likely, given that, well, the April update is gonna be halfway through the month. So yeah, sounds like it should be a reeeeeeally good update, and if it's not, whelp, that's another game I love that I lose.

TL;DR: Put up or shut up, Hyao. All is forgiven if you deliver a truly solid update, especially after the last half a year being relatively no bueno.

 

[nackedsnake]

View attachment 3527266

I'm more and more convinced one of the major reason of Indie Dev Burnout / Abandonware,
Is this super unhealthy development environment, People Pressure + Nagging the dev for updates consistently, and complain at every step.

Game development is a Craft and Long time commitment, there'll always be highs and lows, even for Full time developers in Big studios.
There's no way a human can pump out 'good quality content' every month for many years straight.
This post really feels like Hyao's trying to educate "kids" of such gravity.
Funny he even needs to make a 'apology' this long in the first place lol.

Also, People really need to understand,
You are not part of the development (of a healthy game), at any capacity. No matter how much money you "invested" in.
Kinda like another form of Parasocial

 

[hatass]

I'm more and more convinced one of the major reason of Indie Dev Burnout / Abandonware,
Is this super unhealthy development environment, People Pressure + Nagging the dev for updates consistently, and complain at every step.

Game development is a Craft and Long time commitment, there'll always be highs and lows, even for Full time developers in Big studios.
There's no way a human can pump out 'good quality content' every month for many years straight.
This post really feels like Hyao's trying to educate "kids" of such gravity.
Funny he even needs to make a 'apology' this long in the first place lol.

Also, People really need to understand,
You are not part of the development (of a healthy game), at any capacity. No matter how much money you "invested" in.
Kinda like another form of Parasocial

Is that why most porn games just become abandoned, with some milking patreon money indefinitely? There's the lows, where are the highs then? 6 months of lows not good enough to recover?

Look at The Pilgrimage for example, consistently high quality output, despite the dev learning things along the way and some dead end mechanics. The response is nothing but positive because the dev is consistent and reliable. And no one is forcing the dev to commit to a monthly release cycle if that's too much pressure.

 

[Polarthief]

Is that why most porn games just become abandoned, with some milking patreon money indefinitely? There's the lows, where are the highs then? 6 months of lows not good enough to recover?

Definitely depends on the dev. Innoxia (of Lilith's Throne) is 100% Low all the time and milks her simping echo chamber because they're beyond stupid. Hyao has had quite a long time of lows, but finally I do think this is the update that is going to deliver. If it's not, it's definitely going to piss me off given how long the low has been.

Look at The Pilgrimage for example, consistently high quality output, despite the dev learning things along the way and some dead end mechanics. The response is nothing but positive because the dev is consistent and reliable. And no one is forcing the dev to commit to a monthly release cycle if that's too much pressure.

Kinda how I feel about Palworld despite them literally claiming how inept they are, lol. It's all about the developer mentality, and Hyao's definitely got highs and lows, Innoxia is only lows, and that Pilgrimage dev sounds like all highs. You can't force a better work ethic and mentality into people no matter how hard you try. Remember, people are not robots and have many factors to how they do the things they do.

 

[nackedsnake]

Is that why most porn games just become abandoned, with some milking patreon money indefinitely? There's the lows, where are the highs then? 6 months of lows not good enough to recover?

Look at The Pilgrimage for example, consistently high quality output, despite the dev learning things along the way and some dead end mechanics. The response is nothing but positive because the dev is consistent and reliable. And no one is forcing the dev to commit to a monthly release cycle if that's too much pressure.

If you failed to read the nuance.
I was talking about "super unhealthy development environment" is one of the Major Reason,
For a genuine Developer that Aims to create a game.
This environment is created by the industry, the developers, and the audiences as a whole.
Not about those Bad actors that're only in for the money milking.

Is The Pilgrimage developed by a solo dev, for how long?
6 months of lows is not good enough to recover, if they didn't properly recover, or the low is deeper.
And why are you comparing them in this way, exactly? There are many different circumstances.
No one is forcing you to support one or another.

 

[hatass]

No one is forcing you to support one or another.

Yeah, that's why we're voicing the opposite of support.

 

[ghxstb3yond]

Nope. Romancing Bernard is still required. Though I would like for that to change one day tbh. Doesn't seem like that'll happen anytime soon though.

Damn, oh well guess I'll keep waiting. Still feels so silly to be required since it locks so many quests. Can't even upgrade bareshade without finding caleb first... Which is also required for some other stuff. Maybe One day we'll get that & a non-romance route for ste too. I like him & his kids, but I ain't trying to replace their mom lol.

 

[GoldenStag]

Damn, oh well guess I'll keep waiting. Still feels so silly to be required since it locks so many quests. Can't even upgrade bareshade without finding caleb first... Which is also required for some other stuff. Maybe One day we'll get that & a non-romance route for ste too. I like him & his kids, but I ain't trying to replace their mom lol.

Well, actually you don't need hearts with him to do the Bareshade Expansion quest. There's a no love route for starting it.

 

[ghxstb3yond]

Well, actually you don't need hearts with him to do the Bareshade Expansion quest. There's a no love route for starting it.

Wait seriously? When did that change? I remember it never letting me progress bc I hadn't finished the werewolf quest. Maybe that was just a weird bug like ste not getting his road then....

 

[GoldenStag]

Wait seriously? When did that change? I remember it never letting me progress bc I hadn't finished the werewolf quest. Maybe that was just a weird bug like ste not getting his road then....

I have no clue, its been that way for as long as I've been playing. And if there was a bug with the Country Road quest, it must've been fixed since it's definitely possible to do it. In fact its required for one of Logan's heart events.

 

[ghxstb3yond]

I have no clue, its been that way for as long as I've been playing. And if there was a bug with the Country Road quest, it must've been fixed since it's definitely possible to do it. In fact its required for one of Logan's heart events.

Could just be a side effect of my saves being Real old. Wouldn't surprise me if it's just a save related issue, First saves from the main playthrough was started in like 2021 & this game is Real Long if you read everything. Started a new one a few times but never got far enough to test if those were still bugged.

 

[hatass]

Damn, oh well guess I'll keep waiting. Still feels so silly to be required since it locks so many quests. Can't even upgrade bareshade without finding caleb first... Which is also required for some other stuff. Maybe One day we'll get that & a non-romance route for ste too. I like him & his kids, but I ain't trying to replace their mom lol.

Just save edit or dev console it. It's how I have a bunch of fun feral prisoners together with advancing the plot. Especially if your save is old as mine was, it might be a requirement at this point.

 

[IvoryOwl]

I'm more and more convinced one of the major reason of Indie Dev Burnout / Abandonware,
Is this super unhealthy development environment, People Pressure + Nagging the dev for updates consistently, and complain at every step.

Game development is a Craft and Long time commitment, there'll always be highs and lows, even for Full time developers in Big studios.
There's no way a human can pump out 'good quality content' every month for many years straight.
This post really feels like Hyao's trying to educate "kids" of such gravity.
Funny he even needs to make a 'apology' this long in the first place lol.

Also, People really need to understand,
You are not part of the development (of a healthy game), at any capacity. No matter how much money you "invested" in.
Kinda like another form of Parasocial

There's no such thing as free cake in this industry; where there's money, there's expectations. Accepting cash from others almost always comes with strings attached, whether from your own community, your boss or your conscience telling you to give something in return to justify the money you're getting.

Contractual devs answer to their bosses, and these in turn answer to their investors and shareholders. No investor is going to keep money rolling without results, and no money equals no company. For Patreons and Kickstarters, the role of investor is replaced by that of the subscriber; even though they are far more lenient, at the end of the day they still want to see progress.

The idea that people aren't part the development process is not entirely true. Again, anything you accept from others usually comes with a catch, and it has long been an industry standard to reward those who financially support early-access games (whether on patreon or steam) with some influence over the game's development, even if it's just feedback.

The stress factor and unhealthy environment is the same whether you're self-employed or under contract, the only difference is that one allows you to get away with doing jack shit for 6 months and still get paid. It's better to disappoint a subscriber than an investor; subs won't end your job and most likely won't pursuit legal action against you either. Investors will absolutely ruin you.

You won't find any other job in the industry with the same "benefits", leniency and low entry requirement as a self-employed dev on a subscriber-based platforms. It's not parasocial to hold others accountable for their work and promises, not unless you're going to start calling investors "parasocial" to the companies they invested into, too... Without accountability, nothing would get done...

 

[vitrelladonella]

There's no such thing as free cake in this industry; where there's money, there's expectations. The moment you start accepting money from others you know there's going to be strings attached, whether from your own community or your conscience telling you you have to give something in return to justify the money you're getting.

Devs who work for a company answer to their managers and admins, and these in turn answer to the investors and shareholders. Without results, the investors could very well withdraw their support, forcing the company to go under. Especially if they have no other form of revenue. For Patreons and Kickstarters, the role of investor is replaced by that of the subscriber; even though they are far more lenient, at the end of the day they still want to see progress.

When you say people are not part of the development, that is not entirely true. One of the most common rewards for patreon, kickstarter and even early-access games is that you usually get to influence the game's development to a degree in exchange for your financial support. When people complain about "subscribers being spoiled and demanding" that's because it has been an industry standard to exchange money for influence over the project, even if it's just feedback.

If you're going to disappoint someone, better a subscriber than an investor. The latter will absolutely make you lose your job, whereas subs will rarely ever pursuit legal consequences even if you scam them... The stress factor and unhealthy environment is the same whether you're self-employed or under contract, the only difference is that one allows you to get away with doing jack shit for 6 months and still get paid. At that point, complaints are just a small price to pay for laziness or inefficiency.

You won't find any other job in the industry with the same "benefits", leniency and low entry requirement as Patreon.

I agree with some of your assessment of this industry, but I think your understanding of the relationship between content creator and subscriber is flawed.

You're not paying someone for a job when you subscribe to them, or to use branded language, Become a Patron. You are giving them money to continue to create their art. Unless the benefit is spelled out as part of the patronage, you are not signing a contract with the content creator to produce anything specific.

I think content creators set themselves up for failure through poor communication. If a content creator promises monthly updates, then fails to meet this deadline consistently, it's understandable for a subscriber to feel like they're not getting what they were promised. This content creator should consider another schedule for releasing content that works for what they can produce. Even better, consider not having a release schedule at all.

That said, the content creator only has a social obligation to release content on a schedule. They said subscribers should expect consistent content, but no contracts have been signed. By sending money towards a content creator, you're just supporting their art, however they choose to release it. Some of my favorite content creators release stuff inconsistently. Other content creators I subscribe to stick to a schedule they can consistently achieve. Either way they choose to deliver it, I'm just glad they can keep producing. Most artists don't have the option to make their art a full time job.

 

[IvoryOwl]

I agree with some of your assessment of this industry, but I think your understanding of the relationship between content creator and subscriber is flawed.

You're not paying someone for a job when you subscribe to them, or to use branded language, Become a Patron. You are giving them money to continue to create their art. Unless the benefit is spelled out as part of the patronage, you are not signing a contract with the content creator to produce anything specific.

I think content creators set themselves up for failure through poor communication. If a content creator promises monthly updates, then fails to meet this deadline consistently, it's understandable for a subscriber to feel like they're not getting what they were promised. This content creator should consider another schedule for releasing content that works for what they can produce. Even better, consider not having a release schedule at all.

That said, the content creator only has a social obligation to release content on a schedule. They said subscribers should expect consistent content, but no contracts have been signed. By sending money towards a content creator, you're just supporting their art, however they choose to release it. Some of my favorite content creators release stuff inconsistently. Other content creators I subscribe to stick to a schedule they can consistently achieve. Either way they choose to deliver it, I'm just glad they can keep producing. Most artists don't have the option to make their art a full time job.

And that is why I rarely support early-access games. With the exception of charity, when I give money I usually expect something in return; in this case the realization of a project that has a beginning and an end. I'm talking about videogames here, not art commissions. The lack of a contract means I can't hold that person accountable beyond their word, and in these times, their word doesn't mean jack to me. I've seen too many failures and scams over the years to simply trust randos with my money.

This is why I'd rather pay for the finished, complete product, which in the subscriber-platform is akin to seeing a unicorn. The system rewards holding projects indefinitely as WIPs because that also means indefinite pay (for the devs and platform). The people who support these are usually too lenient, forgetful or downright irresponsible with their money, and that is why subscriber-platforms as they are now will never be anything more than a mixed bag of hopeful dreams and a scammer's wet dream.

The subscriber system, simply put, is not conductive to success or seeing finished products. 5-10 years in development is a very long time to expect someone with no accountability to deliver what they initially intended to. Most excuses why you can't deliver something would never fly in an ordinary job, partially because in other jobs projects like these are usually a group effort coordinated by a manager with a deadline, and partially because you're being held accountable, with real consequences for failure.

When you're alone, it's that much easier to just call it quits because the only real person you're letting down is yourself and your subs, and the latter can be reduced to just a bunch of randos on the internet you have no real connection to beyond their money; there's no contract so they can't do anything beyond complaining. Whether you're a dev or consumer, sub-platforms are not your medium if you want finished products.

 

[nackedsnake]

There's no such thing as free cake in this industry; where there's money, there's expectations. Accepting cash from others almost always comes with strings attached, whether from your own community, your boss or your conscience telling you to give something in return to justify the money you're getting.

Contractual devs answer to their bosses, and these in turn answer to their investors and shareholders. No investor is going to keep money rolling without results, and no money equals no company. For Patreons and Kickstarters, the role of investor is replaced by that of the subscriber; even though they are far more lenient, at the end of the day they still want to see progress.

The idea that people aren't part the development process is not entirely true. Again, anything you accept from others usually comes with a catch, and it has long been an industry standard to reward those who financially support early-access games (whether on patreon or steam) with some influence over the game's development, even if it's just feedback.

The stress factor and unhealthy environment is the same whether you're self-employed or under contract, the only difference is that one allows you to get away with doing jack shit for 6 months and still get paid. It's better to disappoint a subscriber than an investor; subs won't end your job and most likely won't pursuit legal action against you either. Investors will absolutely ruin you.

You won't find any other job in the industry with the same "benefits", leniency and low entry requirement as a self-employed dev on a subscriber-based platforms. It's not parasocial to hold others accountable for their work and promises, not unless you're going to start calling investors "parasocial" to the companies they invested into, too... Without accountability, nothing would get done...

And that is why I rarely support early-access games. With the exception of charity, when I give money I usually expect something in return; in this case the realization of a project that has a beginning and an end. I'..........................

Pretty much what vitrelladonella said.
From what you said, I'm not sure you know how Patreon subscription actually works.
Or you've been poisoned by those who exploits such model to extract money (one of the worst thing they did is pay-walling contents behind subscription).

• No matter how you think you are "investing in these projects", You are not.
  • There're no contract signed to guarantee an agreed outcome. You might as well not getting anything you expected in return.
• No matter how you think you are part of the development cuz you gave the dev bunch of money, You are not.
  • You can give feedback, you might even influence the project.
  • BUT it's ultimately up to the Developers to make the call and do the work. If it's aligned with your interests, great. If it's not, bad luck for you.

It's "parasocial" cuz it's "delusional power fantasy". I don't even understand how you can compare these to Investment Industry.

Tho I agree with your "Without accountability, nothing would get done...". Everyone only acts with their own best interests.
The sad truth is we are not able to held anyone accountable in gaming industry due to lackin' regulations. (Sick of Big companies sell overpriced and unfinished games yet?)
And that's one of many reasons why there are so many Abandonware, besides "dev burnout due to unhealthy environment", "developing game is difficult, requires way more skills than dev can handle", etc.

And what's all this to do with Lustful Desires you ask?
It's just a porn game, if you don't like the state of the development, just move on with your life. You can't hold Hyao "accountable" for anything cuz there's never an agreement signed in the first place. Nor can he you.

 

[IvoryOwl]

Pretty much what vitrelladonella said.
From what you said, I'm not sure you know how Patreon subscription actually works. Or you've been poisoned by those who exploits such model to extract money.

• No matter how you think you are "investing in these projects", You are not.
  • There're no contract signed to guarantee an agreed outcome. You might as well not getting anything you expected in return.
• No matter how you think you are part of the development cuz you gave the dev bunch of money, You are not.
  • You can give feedback, you might even influence the project.
  • BUT it's ultimately up to the Developers to make the call and do the work. If it's aligned with your interests, great. If it's not, bad luck for you.

It's "parasocial" cuz it's "delusional power fantasy". I don't even understand how you can compare these to investing industry.

Tho I agree with your "Without accountability, nothing would get done...". Everyone only acts with their own best interests.
The sad truth is we are not able to held anyone accountable in gaming industry due to lackin' regulations. (Sick of Big companies sell overpriced and unfinished games yet?)
And that's one of many reasons why there are so many Abandonware, besides "dev burnout due to unhealthy environment", "developing game is difficult, requires way more skills than dev can handle", etc.

And what's all this to do with Lustful Desires you ask?
It's just a porn game, if you don't like the state of the development, just move on with your life. You can't hold Hyao "accountable" for anything cuz there's never an agreement signed in the first place.

I don't care about yours or anyone elses' definition of what it means to give money in Patreon. For the record I'm not mad at you or anything (because I know my tone and wording might get mistaken as such). It's just that, in my mind, if -I- give them money then in my purview -I'm- investing in that project. You and others might not agree with it, but that's how I see it. I don't usually give money away out of the goodness of my heart; if I give my financial support, then I expect something in return.

I know that's not how most people see it, and I know I cannot hold the dev accountable because there's no contract. And that is precisely why I don't support these devs on Patreon. I want to see progress that culminates in a finished product, and I simply don't believe these platforms to be a good medium for that. With no way to hold these people accountable, I might as well be throwing money away on a gamble that might or might not pan out as intended. It's simply not for me.

It's way more advantageous for me to buy the finished product when it comes out. If ever. AAA games are very expensive nowadays, yet that would be nothing compared to 5-15$ a month for 5-10 years to support these devs. That's an insane amount of money to throw at a gamble project. 5$ a month adds up to 60$ a year. I could buy a whole ass game with that money, heck, I could pay PS or Xbox 20$ a month and I'd instantly gain access to a whole library of games! Investing in Patreon just sounds like a bad idea comparatively.

In other words, from a consumer's perspective, Patreon just isn't for me. I have no idea what is going on with this dev or his project, I just stumbled upon this thread, saw what people were saying and decided to pitch in my 2 cents... about stuff in general.

 

[alt catboy]

so many notifications from this thread yet no update
y'all this is a porn games site not twitter