RPGM Maids & Masters [v0.16] [The Mithril Hourglass]

[Solak]

I apologize if this sounds accusatory, I promise I don't say this from a place of malice - it seems to me that the issue is as much an expectation issue as an implementation issue.

Before I go any further than that, I do want to say that I completely understand your frustration. The game is meant to be self contained, but I'm new at making games and entirely self-taught. My intentions and the end result don't always line up, and there are lots of improvements to be made both with this game and with me as a developer.

With that in mind, about the maze and trophy 1. The garden maze is set up the way that it is so it mirrors the maze in the demo; not to try to send you to the demo, but so that if you played the demo and solved the maze, you can get a reward easily in the main game. The direction on finding it isn't clear because it isn't meant to be a huge or necessary reward, just something extra for people who took the time to play the demo or actively wanted to take the time to solve the maze. That's why the "hint" at the uncle's Estate is as subtle as it is; it's supposed to be evidence of how smart you are that you managed to figure it out, and you get something within the game as a bonus.

Trophy 1 is set up the same way. It's not really part of the main game (really, none of the trophies are), it's an extra reward for people who played the demo (or made the decision to put the time into finding whatever other trophy).

But I do need to clarify something: Trophy 1 isn't in the garden maze. It is hidden as an invisible thing to interact with, but it's in the trophy room inside the mansion.

So, some follow up questions (and anyone is more than welcome to answer any of these questions) - would you rather see the garden maze be easier? The hint be more obvious? The reward be better (and if so, what would be a better reward)? Have the maze and reward be removed entirely?

I don't think moving it to the left is going to make a difference, because you're the only person I've had acknowledge it as a hint on their own so far, but if that's the ideal solution (or even if it would just be a little bit more helpful), it's something I can do.

For the other annoyances, starting with fixing the floor manually - should you not get the item pickup notification when you interact with things? I get that needing to push the button an extra time can get tedious (I've played through that section close to a dozen times; I really get that), but is such a simple thing really what turned you off of the task, or was there something else about it that didn't sit right with you? I put in the option to skip it after fixing the first 10 holes, it can be skipped at any point after that, and I ask you three times if you're sure you want to do it the hard way - should that be set up differently (and if so, how)? Or is it a communication issue, and you never realized you were able to skip it?

It seems odd to me that (and this is probably going to sound accusatory again - I promise I don't mean it that way, I'm only explaining my thought process in hopes you'll correct it to improve my understanding) you would actively choose to do it that way, and your reaction to your own decision is to tell me that it's bad after ignoring the existing alternatives. It's not easy for me to figure out what to do with that information when I've already put in a way to skip the tedium.

What other time-wasting decisions do you feel were made? How did you expect those things to behave? Is there a particular way you'd prefer to see those things be? If you're more specific, I might be able to address those things and make changes.

I'm not actively trying to waste anyone's time, and I do a lot of playtesting to make sure the game feels good to play. To me, it does. I've tried talking to people outside of F95; it feels fine to them, too. I don't know what feels like a waste of time (or what makes you feel like I'm disrespecting your time) if no one tells me what that is in a way I can act on.

Same with QoL changes. I do have a long list of changes I want to make that have accumulated since the previous major release, and after this next major release is out, I'll be taking more time to focus on those. I have no problem with making that list longer based on feedback. What do you think would improve the game? What improvements do you think can be made that would fix the issues you have to the point where you would return? What feels like a punishment for doing what you think the game is asking you to do? What could change to make those "punishments" not punishing?

I've said it before, but I'll say it every time if it makes a difference - I love feedback. Even if it's harsh. Feedback gives me insight that I can't otherwise obtain on my own, it helps make my game the best it can be, and helps me improve as a developer. I can't do much with "lacking QoL improvements" though.

Since you took the time to read and reply with thought put into it, I shall do the same.

Trophy 1 being in the Trophy Room is unexpected. I honestly figured it would be that blind maze. Guess I'll have to re-explore that trophy room once I get back into playing it.

Now I do realise it's the same maze as in the demo, that's how I was able to solve it. The problem in that maze is that the one talking bush doesn't stick out at all. You actually did it pretty nicely at the Uncle's Estate: every bush looks the same, save for this one (which mirrors the talking bush). It easily catches the eye. In the blind maze, everything's overgrown and/or lacking proper care. There's already a mishmash of different objects. The bush should sport a unique look (could be simply adding a sparkle to it or whatever) so that players think "something's different here". Players would walk up to it and interact with it. It'll frustrate them a bit that nothing seems to be happening but not too long, figuring it'll play a part later in the game.

Then, once you enter the Uncle's Estate, having that layout (with no hedges along the correct path, preferably on the same side) + a bush sticking out should be enough for players to remember that maze from the beginning. It needs to remain subtle and be thought-provoking. What frustrated me is that, while the hint was there, it wasn't accurate (the correct path is blocked several times).

For the floor, I didn't want to leave it to her to do the entire job. To me, it felt like a "test": seeing if I'd reveal myself to be like her previous Masters, ordering her around while they sit back and relax. The narrative led me to believe it was my opportunity to show her things would be different here. I didn't try to skip.
For collecting items on the fly, I don't know if Yanfly released a plugin for your version of RPG Maker. What I do know is that a plugin exists where the text just briefly appears on part of the screen without pausing the action. It removes the additional click every time. Otherwise, showing it the first time only (with a short monologue just before, like "Guess I've got to gather all the ruined furniture") should be enough.

About the time-wasting grievances, it's mostly being encouraged to explore the place without finding anything of worth. Attention has clearly been put in, yet when I look, there's actually nothing to do. Adding th efact the maps tend to be on the bigger side dna mazey (at least the forests), that's a lot of walking around, taking turn after turn, only to see virtually nothing of worth.
Not everything/everywhere should have something to do. But if you've played games like Baldur's Gate, it's important to have stuff like the hidden Writ and Hold around. The dead girl or the dead hunter (kinda odd he's disrespecting the dead hunter I found, but that's just me). The hidden love shack. There was some stuff sprinkled in that got me looking... but once it got to the deeper forest where you need to cut wood, it was just vast lands of emptiness.

That's what felt punishing/like a waste of time. In other words, it struck me as: effort put in at first, then not so much. Obviously, this is false but that's what it gave off to me. Instead, there should be tidbits of lore. That's the perfect opportunity to provide world-building elements for those who are interested enough to go ou tof their way to learn more about the universe you've created. It could be seeing someone else's Maid or Butler in action, or Folks, for a daily or special endeavour. Or ruins. A monster den (e.g. wolves for the deep woods). Lots of possibilities.

Right now, I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I might continue at another time if you wish, but I hope what I provided was helpful enough already.

 

[hreserves]

Splitting this up so I can address the individual bits.

Now I do realise it's the same maze as in the demo, that's how I was able to solve it. The problem in that maze is that the one talking bush doesn't stick out at all. You actually did it pretty nicely at the Uncle's Estate: every bush looks the same, save for this one (which mirrors the talking bush). It easily catches the eye. In the blind maze, everything's overgrown and/or lacking proper care. There's already a mishmash of different objects. The bush should sport a unique look (could be simply adding a sparkle to it or whatever) so that players think "something's different here". Players would walk up to it and interact with it. It'll frustrate them a bit that nothing seems to be happening but not too long, figuring it'll play a part later in the game.

Solid point about the bush being unique - that's super easy to change. So easy, in fact, that it's now updated for the next build. This is a great example of something I'm already well aware of but missed the minutia on because I have so much to do.

Then, once you enter the Uncle's Estate, having that layout (with no hedges along the correct path, preferably on the same side) + a bush sticking out should be enough for players to remember that maze from the beginning. It needs to remain subtle and be thought-provoking. What frustrated me is that, while the hint was there, it wasn't accurate (the correct path is blocked several times).

The idea there was that you'd treat the flowers as connected dots, but looking at the hint with fresh eyes, I can see what you mean about the inaccuracy. It'll take a bit more work to get that changed around as you're suggesting (things besides visuals need to move), but it does give me a better idea of what to do with it to make the information it provides easier to read and apply. I'll likely rework that whole Estate in a v0.6.x update, so for now, it's in my notes.

For the floor, I didn't want to leave it to her to do the entire job. To me, it felt like a "test": seeing if I'd reveal myself to be like her previous Masters, ordering her around while they sit back and relax. The narrative led me to believe it was my opportunity to show her things would be different here. I didn't try to skip.

For collecting items on the fly, I don't know if Yanfly released a plugin for your version of RPG Maker. What I do know is that a plugin exists where the text just briefly appears on part of the screen without pausing the action. It removes the additional click every time. Otherwise, showing it the first time only (with a short monologue just before, like "Guess I've got to gather all the ruined furniture") should be enough.

Sounds like another instance of the narrative being so strong it completely overrides the interactive aspects. Your intention in terms of story is exactly what my goal was; feeling like the game is bullying you into doing something you dislike is not. I've gotten feedback like that before, and given that I'm a writer before a developer, it's a weird kind of outdoing myself that I'm not sure if I should take as a positive or a negative.

Anyway - you're correct; the plugin exists but doesn't work for this engine. There may be a different in-engine solution, but it'll take some experimenting to figure it out. I'm hesitant to rely on a bit of monologue because I've gotten feedback about that exact thing resulting in poor player direction, but it's in my notes either way. If nothing else, I'll fiddle a bit and see what works.

About the time-wasting grievances, it's mostly being encouraged to explore the place without finding anything of worth. Attention has clearly been put in, yet when I look, there's actually nothing to do. Adding th efact the maps tend to be on the bigger side dna mazey (at least the forests), that's a lot of walking around, taking turn after turn, only to see virtually nothing of worth.

Not everything/everywhere should have something to do. But if you've played games like Baldur's Gate, it's important to have stuff like the hidden Writ and Hold around. The dead girl or the dead hunter (kinda odd he's disrespecting the dead hunter I found, but that's just me). The hidden love shack. There was some stuff sprinkled in that got me looking... but once it got to the deeper forest where you need to cut wood, it was just vast lands of emptiness.

That's what felt punishing/like a waste of time. In other words, it struck me as: effort put in at first, then not so much. Obviously, this is false but that's what it gave off to me. Instead, there should be tidbits of lore. That's the perfect opportunity to provide world-building elements for those who are interested enough to go ou tof their way to learn more about the universe you've created. It could be seeing someone else's Maid or Butler in action, or Folks, for a daily or special endeavour. Or ruins. A monster den (e.g. wolves for the deep woods). Lots of possibilities.

The "encouraged to explore but not rewarded for doing it" bit is something I've heard before but can't seem to find a solution to. To rephrase the question, what do you think would make for an appropriate reward? Obviously I can put items or gear anywhere, but I always have more than I need when playing myself, so I have no idea if hiding a potion would get "aw yeah, potion!" or "aw, really? potion?"

For disrespecting the hunter - where is that at? Chances are I intended for something to be a joke and a lack of context (or it just not being funny) makes it fall flat. If that's the case, I should probably change it.

For the Deep Wilds - that's (sort of) on purpose. It's supposed to feel like a massive expanse of maze-like paths through trees. Not to say I don't think it can be improved. More will take place there later, but I understand it feeling really empty outside of some combat currently. Same as before, if you have suggestions about what I could hide in there, I'm open. Part of the problem is that there are lots of possibilities; I'm spoiled for choice, and the resulting indecision usually results in the decision not really being made, or not being made very well.

For the lore suggestion - I do have one thing in mind (specific to the Deep Wilds) that I want to include, but it isn't relevant timeline-wise until the story progresses further. Your wolf den suggestion did remind me of something I had originally intended to include and ended up forgetting about though; that's now in my notes to try to work back in.

Right now, I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so I might continue at another time if you wish, but I hope what I provided was helpful enough already.

Falling asleep on keyboards is an entire mood. I'd be more than happy to continue, though, this is incredibly helpful.

 

[Solak]

Solid point about the bush being unique - that's super easy to change. So easy, in fact, that it's now updated for the next build. This is a great example of something I'm already well aware of but missed the minutia on because I have so much to do.

Great to hear! Oftentimes, the most simple of solutions are the most elegant yet the most overlooked. We've all been there, looking for difficutly when there was no reason to.

The idea there was that you'd treat the flowers as connected dots, but looking at the hint with fresh eyes, I can see what you mean about the inaccuracy. It'll take a bit more work to get that changed around as you're suggesting (things besides visuals need to move), but it does give me a better idea of what to do with it to make the information it provides easier to read and apply. I'll likely rework that whole Estate in a v0.6.x update, so for now, it's in my notes.

Ah, so I was correct to try and follow the Mama Flowers. There was an inaccuracy with them though IIRC: in the middle of the maze, you follow the dirt path (real maze) but in the hint, the flowers are 1 tile off. Anyway, glad to hear my feedback could help, more than you think.

Sounds like another instance of the narrative being so strong it completely overrides the interactive aspects. Your intention in terms of story is exactly what my goal was; feeling like the game is bullying you into doing something you dislike is not. I've gotten feedback like that before, and given that I'm a writer before a developer, it's a weird kind of outdoing myself that I'm not sure if I should take as a positive or a negative.

Anyway - you're correct; the plugin exists but doesn't work for this engine. There may be a different in-engine solution, but it'll take some experimenting to figure it out. I'm hesitant to rely on a bit of monologue because I've gotten feedback about that exact thing resulting in poor player direction, but it's in my notes either way. If nothing else, I'll fiddle a bit and see what works.

The "bullying" is mostly because of the intense double-pressing Enter when collecting Scrap Wood. Honestly idly wondered if one of them would have a special text... which did happen with the table at the entrance.

As for writing, there is one Golden Law in interactive media: "Show, don't tell". Always keep it close to heart. As such, one solution would be... a counter (top-left of the screen, usually).

"Scrap Wood: 21"

That way, players can keep track of how many Scrap Woods they're currently in possession of while at the same time enabling you to remove the message upon grabbing them.

For disrespecting the hunter - where is that at? Chances are I intended for something to be a joke and a lack of context (or it just not being funny) makes it fall flat. If that's the case, I should probably change it.

Forest part, north road to exit into the region map. Right half, hidden in trees. MC states he was an idiot for not wanting the help of a woman. Can't remember if he actually adds "serves him right" but that's definitely the feeling I got from that short exchange with Phoebe.

The "encouraged to explore but not rewarded for doing it" bit is something I've heard before but can't seem to find a solution to. To rephrase the question, what do you think would make for an appropriate reward? Obviously I can put items or gear anywhere, but I always have more than I need when playing myself, so I have no idea if hiding a potion would get "aw yeah, potion!" or "aw, really? potion?"

And to answer that paragraph, that's why I swapped it with your next one in my reply. Exchanges between characters are some of the best rewards you can give players. The love shack disappointed me because, other than a short exchange the first time I discovered it, there was nothing. No love, no shacking up. This is typically the kind of place you could place the active party members somewhere inside (or just outside in the garden). That'd really give off the feeling it's a place of repose. Players would be able to interact with the characters there, hearing their thoughts (and potentially more?). Heck, you could even tie in a side-story where you use the shack to hide someone (person, monster pet, monster girl) or letting them use the shack as a temporary home.

Same with exploration. "A Potion? Yeah, that's cool I guess..." Instead, you could have a few areas where your characters interact with one another. You had this patch of flowers in the forest, that's the idea. You can also discover a grove with a nice pond and they'd enjoy it, could also give an idea for some "beach episode" or "hot springs episode". You could also notice claw marks on trees or on the ground, signifying there's a menace in the woods. Players will expect a fight with it, making exploration more thrilling. Said monster can be roaming, ambushing, indifferent... or non-existent until a quest to eliminate it triggers.

Or again, you could have world-building events: meeting another Master or another Master's Maid/Butler in the wild, really reminding players that you're not the only one out there. That's important for story immersion, as wheels will start turning in players' brains. Will we get another duel? Can I subdue the Servant and capture them for ransom/to get intel/try and add them to your Estate (for that last one, could be a faceless Servant counter, increasing your worth or allowing you to dispatch these faceless ones on missions to help villages fend off monsters, rebuild, help for harvest... and whatever else may cross your mind).

Regardless of your choice (which can be "none of the above"), reminding players that other Masters exist helps for immersion and world-building. "Show, don't tell". Narrating "other Masters exist" is very different from actually seeing it for oneself. That's likely why you had this blond douche come to the Estate, only to deliver Ella right into our laps.

At the end of the day, it is but one suggestion amongst many. You could also cross a Cumhaill villager, adding more life to the game. Could also be a monster den. Could also be a grove with a nice pond. Could also be...
nothing, or an item.

That last part is probably the most important. People (in real-life or in-game) will always have expectations. Always meeting them usually ends up becoming boring. That's why guys tend to like challenging themselves, and girls tend to like kicking up drama after a while; things need to happen. Humans love change because we thrive on adaptation. When expectations aren't always met is when people start valuing the times they actually are the most.
Anyway... as the dev, if you always have something waiting for the players at the end of a path, it will no longer be a surprise anymore. It'll be expected, players will become entitled to it, there'll be little joy in finding it. They'd only be curious "ok, what will it be this time" and that'd be it.

If instead, explorating these vast areas net you with nothing most of the time... but here and there, you find something worth your while, that'll keep players motivated and invested. Abundance kills interest, so they need to be fewer in numbers, differing in quality. Sometimes it'll be very exciting, like that hidden Hold. Other times, it'll be your regular ol' Potion. Playing with those highs and lows is key to a successful level design.

For the Deep Wilds - that's (sort of) on purpose. It's supposed to feel like a massive expanse of maze-like paths through trees. Not to say I don't think it can be improved. More will take place there later, but I understand it feeling really empty outside of some combat currently. Same as before, if you have suggestions about what I could hide in there, I'm open. Part of the problem is that there are lots of possibilities; I'm spoiled for choice, and the resulting indecision usually results in the decision not really being made, or not being made very well.

For the lore suggestion - I do have one thing in mind (specific to the Deep Wilds) that I want to include, but it isn't relevant timeline-wise until the story progresses further. Your wolf den suggestion did remind me of something I had originally intended to include and ended up forgetting about though; that's now in my notes to try to work back in.


Falling asleep on keyboards is an entire mood. I'd be more than happy to continue, though, this is incredibly helpful.

And it's perfectly for fine for it to be vast and maze-like with a confusing layout. It just needs the extra spice, which can be claw marks, a monster den, a hidden grove, maybe a rare sight (dryads or unicorns come to mind, but your pillar works too... except for the fact the characters don't even react to it).

If players expect for there to be nothing after a while, it just becomes a chore of killing all the monsters there so you can make sure you didn't forget anything and grab all the xp you can.
If players aren't sure what to expect, it'll keep them interested. Maybe they'll find a den, or maybe they'll find an odd item which will be the start of a side-quest (kinda like the dead girl).

The "odd" part is what you yourself have realised: there are many many many options available. Having so many options makes it difficulty to pick one. At these times, it might be best to check your map and decide which areas will have nothing, which areas will have a little something and which ones would make a nice spot for something bigger. Doing so will limit yourself and your options, forcing you to pick options that best suit the locations you've picked.
Of course, you can then modify the landscape of said areas to suit your needs, but if you want to include a bandit camp, you'd likely want them to be hidden way off, with an outpost in the middle from which to ambush people.
On the other hand, claw marks would need to be along the main path, same with the "Boss Monster". If you want to add a den for it (easier to defeat when you can trap it there or attack it in its sleep), that'd need to be off the main road.

When in doubt, think back to things you remember from exploration games you like. Analyse how they did it. Was there lots of other stuff to find around? Did you need to go off the beaten path to find it? Was there any build-up to it (rumors you heard in a nearby village)? Was it part of a side-quest that made you travel around, including back to previously explored areas? Etc.

 

[hreserves]

Great to hear! Oftentimes, the most simple of solutions are the most elegant yet the most overlooked. We've all been there, looking for difficutly when there was no reason to.

Ah, so I was correct to try and follow the Mama Flowers. There was an inaccuracy with them though IIRC: in the middle of the maze, you follow the dirt path (real maze) but in the hint, the flowers are 1 tile off. Anyway, glad to hear my feedback could help, more than you think.

The "bullying" is mostly because of the intense double-pressing Enter when collecting Scrap Wood. Honestly idly wondered if one of them would have a special text... which did happen with the table at the entrance.

As for writing, there is one Golden Law in interactive media: "Show, don't tell". Always keep it close to heart. As such, one solution would be... a counter (top-left of the screen, usually).

"Scrap Wood: 21"

That way, players can keep track of how many Scrap Woods they're currently in possession of while at the same time enabling you to remove the message upon grabbing them.

I'll be sure to double check the two when I get to remaking those maps. I thought I had overlaid the first on the second, but I may have misplaced something.

A HUD counter for the wood is a good suggestion, but I'm not sure if it's something I can do easily. I can think of a few ways to do it the hard way, but I'm trying to avoid that kind of jank because it's difficult to put together and easy to break. I'll still keep it in mind for when I start experimenting with possible solutions, though.

Forest part, north road to exit into the region map. Right half, hidden in trees. MC states he was an idiot for not wanting the help of a woman. Can't remember if he actually adds "serves him right" but that's definitely the feeling I got from that short exchange with Phoebe.

I remember that now. I was going for something else entirely, but re-reading it, it's way heavy handed. Updated for the next build.

And to answer that paragraph, that's why I swapped it with your next one in my reply. Exchanges between characters are some of the best rewards you can give players. The love shack disappointed me because, other than a short exchange the first time I discovered it, there was nothing. No love, no shacking up. This is typically the kind of place you could place the active party members somewhere inside (or just outside in the garden). That'd really give off the feeling it's a place of repose. Players would be able to interact with the characters there, hearing their thoughts (and potentially more?). Heck, you could even tie in a side-story where you use the shack to hide someone (person, monster pet, monster girl) or letting them use the shack as a temporary home.

Same with exploration. "A Potion? Yeah, that's cool I guess..." Instead, you could have a few areas where your characters interact with one another. You had this patch of flowers in the forest, that's the idea. You can also discover a grove with a nice pond and they'd enjoy it, could also give an idea for some "beach episode" or "hot springs episode". You could also notice claw marks on trees or on the ground, signifying there's a menace in the woods. Players will expect a fight with it, making exploration more thrilling. Said monster can be roaming, ambushing, indifferent... or non-existent until a quest to eliminate it triggers.

Or again, you could have world-building events: meeting another Master or another Master's Maid/Butler in the wild, really reminding players that you're not the only one out there. That's important for story immersion, as wheels will start turning in players' brains. Will we get another duel? Can I subdue the Servant and capture them for ransom/to get intel/try and add them to your Estate (for that last one, could be a faceless Servant counter, increasing your worth or allowing you to dispatch these faceless ones on missions to help villages fend off monsters, rebuild, help for harvest... and whatever else may cross your mind).

Regardless of your choice (which can be "none of the above"), reminding players that other Masters exist helps for immersion and world-building. "Show, don't tell". Narrating "other Masters exist" is very different from actually seeing it for oneself. That's likely why you had this blond douche come to the Estate, only to deliver Ella right into our laps.

At the end of the day, it is but one suggestion amongst many. You could also cross a Cumhaill villager, adding more life to the game. Could also be a monster den. Could also be a grove with a nice pond. Could also be...
nothing, or an item.

That last part is probably the most important. People (in real-life or in-game) will always have expectations. Always meeting them usually ends up becoming boring. That's why guys tend to like challenging themselves, and girls tend to like kicking up drama after a while; things need to happen. Humans love change because we thrive on adaptation. When expectations aren't always met is when people start valuing the times they actually are the most.
Anyway... as the dev, if you always have something waiting for the players at the end of a path, it will no longer be a surprise anymore. It'll be expected, players will become entitled to it, there'll be little joy in finding it. They'd only be curious "ok, what will it be this time" and that'd be it.

If instead, explorating these vast areas net you with nothing most of the time... but here and there, you find something worth your while, that'll keep players motivated and invested. Abundance kills interest, so they need to be fewer in numbers, differing in quality. Sometimes it'll be very exciting, like that hidden Hold. Other times, it'll be your regular ol' Potion. Playing with those highs and lows is key to a successful level design.

And it's perfectly for fine for it to be vast and maze-like with a confusing layout. It just needs the extra spice, which can be claw marks, a monster den, a hidden grove, maybe a rare sight (dryads or unicorns come to mind, but your pillar works too... except for the fact the characters don't even react to it).

If players expect for there to be nothing after a while, it just becomes a chore of killing all the monsters there so you can make sure you didn't forget anything and grab all the xp you can.
If players aren't sure what to expect, it'll keep them interested. Maybe they'll find a den, or maybe they'll find an odd item which will be the start of a side-quest (kinda like the dead girl).

The "odd" part is what you yourself have realised: there are many many many options available. Having so many options makes it difficulty to pick one. At these times, it might be best to check your map and decide which areas will have nothing, which areas will have a little something and which ones would make a nice spot for something bigger. Doing so will limit yourself and your options, forcing you to pick options that best suit the locations you've picked.
Of course, you can then modify the landscape of said areas to suit your needs, but if you want to include a bandit camp, you'd likely want them to be hidden way off, with an outpost in the middle from which to ambush people.
On the other hand, claw marks would need to be along the main path, same with the "Boss Monster". If you want to add a den for it (easier to defeat when you can trap it there or attack it in its sleep), that'd need to be off the main road.

When in doubt, think back to things you remember from exploration games you like. Analyse how they did it. Was there lots of other stuff to find around? Did you need to go off the beaten path to find it? Was there any build-up to it (rumors you heard in a nearby village)? Was it part of a side-quest that made you travel around, including back to previously explored areas? Etc.

I largely agree with the majority of this, but this also starts to get into why I like feedback, and why I respond to everyone to either explain myself or ask for clarification. Specificity really matters. Your comment on the love shack gives me a great idea for something to do with it, though I have no idea how I'm going to manage to implement it right now. Should be fun to experiment with, though.

I've been writing for over a decade now, though most of it has been for (usually well-received) TTRPG homebrew campaigns I've run. I'm intimately familiar with the idea of Show, Don't Tell, but with games sometimes you gotta tell. Not narratively speaking, but I've gotten multiple comments about poor player direction even in parts where I do outright tell the player what to do next. So I ask a few people about it, and they had no issue. The same seems to apply to combat difficulty, and even exploration in some cases.

Some of these suggestions are fantastic, even if I can't use them. Recruiting "faceless" Servants for any number of reasons is definitely the sort of thing that could be implemented (and I've seen used in other games), but this specific thing I won't use because of the specific vision I have for this game. I want every character in the game to have their own story. I know there are several NPCs I've missed (mostly in Aimadh and Adhauga), but everyone you meet has at least an implied story and I could tell it to you if you asked. Every character you recruit will have a name and a role. I still ended up with five more items in my list of stuff to try implementing across all of your suggestions, though. Point being, I take your point.

Though I do have to admit I can't do anything with the "think about other games" angle. I could drone on about my own gamer credentials, but suffice to say I know I've got a lot to learn from other games. That knowledge is great for general ideology, but terrible for specifics, and most of what I need to improve my own game seem to be the specifics.

The trouble (from my perspective, at least) is the expectation. Different people expect and want different things at different times, and there's only so much I can do to manage that expectation. I think we've established that I've managed the expectation for exploring into "there should be something" and I haven't followed through often enough to justify creating that expectation. The reason I keep asking what I should hide isn't necessarily because I have no idea what to put there, it's because I have no idea what the expectation is. The reason there aren't already random potions literally everywhere is because that's not what I expect.

The biggest thing I want to avoid is something I've encountered a lot myself in other games; I put the work in, I find what I was hoping to find and...! Oh. Thanks for yet another mushroom, Elden Ring, I haven't thrown a pot in 60 levels. Same with the opposite problem of finding my way to things that seem interesting only to not be able to interact with the thing at all (as a quick aside, I know the Deep Wilds tower is exactly that; it's in my notes). Maybe I've over-corrected in avoiding these problems, or maybe I don't encounter it in my own game because I know all the answers already, or maybe it's fine and my attention belongs elsewhere, but I don't know which is which or what to look at unless someone else speaks up.

If I decide to hide more character moments, I'll get (and have gotten) feedback about there not being a reward. Same with if I put in lore tidbits and small pieces of world building. If I hide items or gear, I'll get feedback like you're giving me, and there should be more world building and character moments. The obvious solution, then, is to do both; which is what resulted in things like the piles of bones you can find. Those are the result of feedback and weren't in the game at all until v0.5. They have items, they tell you more about the world, some tell small stories or have character moments. But now that they're there, what else is there to put in the same area if more is still needed? Like you're saying, more of the same gets boring. So I need all the feedback I can get.

 

[Solak]

If I decide to hide more character moments, I'll get (and have gotten) feedback about there not being a reward. Same with if I put in lore tidbits and small pieces of world building. If I hide items or gear, I'll get feedback like you're giving me, and there should be more world building and character moments. The obvious solution, then, is to do both; which is what resulted in things like the piles of bones you can find. Those are the result of feedback and weren't in the game at all until v0.5. They have items, they tell you more about the world, some tell small stories or have character moments. But now that they're there, what else is there to put in the same area if more is still needed? Like you're saying, more of the same gets boring. So I need all the feedback I can get.

That's why my advice would be not to always give in to players' expectations. Main reason being that everyone is different, everyone will want different "rewards". Some will want more items, others will love gear and try different builds with different characters (like testing Phys Atk vs Mag Atk on some characters). You'll also have lore-hungry players that will want details and answers on anything and everything.

Varying the rewards is therefore vital not only because different players have different wants, but also because hope and disappointment go hand in hand in entertainment, as I'm sure you know well. You don't create a story where everything goes the players' way. Making do with what life (or in this case, the game) throws our way is how you get the most fun, making the occasional nice thing that much nicer, provided your input actually does matter somewhat.

Spoiler: Examples

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That being said, the more investment players put in, the more frustrated they'll become when their expectations aren't met. For my case, exploring every nook and cranny took me a lot of time. For the first forest area, some mazey parts took too long to navigate... or rather, re-navigate.

On that note, there's also player fatigue to consider. Some areas (like the hidden Hold) could use shortcuts once found/completed.
"What was there at the end of this path again?"
"Has someone arrived at that camp on the northern end of the first forest area?"
To answer such questions, I'd need to do the entire "maze" all over again, only to spend 1 second to check the area before navigating my way back out.

Navigating both forest areas to make sure not a single wolf nor snake escaped your grasp also takes a while because of that. If the game isn't telling you, you'll have to doublecheck the entire area to make sure that's not the case, which includes navigating mazey-like areas again. When put together, it adds up and player fatigue eventually makes one weary of the game: searching high and low, taking time to make sure nothing's been missed. It also participates in the feeling that direction is lacking, as you have no clear-cut sign that you've done everything you could (no "Mission Complete!").

For this particular issue, an easy fix would be having Phoebe or Melissa telling you "I don't think we'll find any more wolves/snakes around here" after killing the last one... maybe same with wood: "we've got everything in this area, let's move on". It also acknowledge (and thus congratulates) the players' efforts.

I'll end with 3 things:
- in the Uncle Estate, I tried to find Anna's room (hopefully to try and uncover dirt on her) but to no avail. I was quite surprised to see her room was like all the others.
- speaking of the Uncle Estate, with how big it is, having a sparkle or something to indicate places of interest (here there be loot) might be an option worth considering.
- and a bug: in Cumhaill, you can miss the dialogue in Phoebe's home where she acknowledges your worth if you sell wolf pelts + snake skins then head to the chief's house, triggering th eburial subquest. Would prob be better to lock that until you've triggered that scene, with the chief/old man/old lady telling you "I think Phoebe wanted to speak to you".

I could've written these ideas in a much more concise way, hopefully that didn't scare you away from reading nor drown my point.

 

[matriks]

Any news aboyt update?

 

[hreserves]

That's why my advice would be not to always give in to players' expectations. Main reason being that everyone is different, everyone will want different "rewards". Some will want more items, others will love gear and try different builds with different characters (like testing Phys Atk vs Mag Atk on some characters). You'll also have lore-hungry players that will want details and answers on anything and everything.

Varying the rewards is therefore vital not only because different players have different wants, but also because hope and disappointment go hand in hand in entertainment, as I'm sure you know well. You don't create a story where everything goes the players' way. Making do with what life (or in this case, the game) throws our way is how you get the most fun, making the occasional nice thing that much nicer, provided your input actually does matter somewhat.

Spoiler: Examples

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That being said, the more investment players put in, the more frustrated they'll become when their expectations aren't met. For my case, exploring every nook and cranny took me a lot of time. For the first forest area, some mazey parts took too long to navigate... or rather, re-navigate.

On that note, there's also player fatigue to consider. Some areas (like the hidden Hold) could use shortcuts once found/completed.
"What was there at the end of this path again?"
"Has someone arrived at that camp on the northern end of the first forest area?"
To answer such questions, I'd need to do the entire "maze" all over again, only to spend 1 second to check the area before navigating my way back out.

Navigating both forest areas to make sure not a single wolf nor snake escaped your grasp also takes a while because of that. If the game isn't telling you, you'll have to doublecheck the entire area to make sure that's not the case, which includes navigating mazey-like areas again. When put together, it adds up and player fatigue eventually makes one weary of the game: searching high and low, taking time to make sure nothing's been missed. It also participates in the feeling that direction is lacking, as you have no clear-cut sign that you've done everything you could (no "Mission Complete!").

For this particular issue, an easy fix would be having Phoebe or Melissa telling you "I don't think we'll find any more wolves/snakes around here" after killing the last one... maybe same with wood: "we've got everything in this area, let's move on". It also acknowledge (and thus congratulates) the players' efforts.

I'll end with 3 things:
- in the Uncle Estate, I tried to find Anna's room (hopefully to try and uncover dirt on her) but to no avail. I was quite surprised to see her room was like all the others.
- speaking of the Uncle Estate, with how big it is, having a sparkle or something to indicate places of interest (here there be loot) might be an option worth considering.
- and a bug: in Cumhaill, you can miss the dialogue in Phoebe's home where she acknowledges your worth if you sell wolf pelts + snake skins then head to the chief's house, triggering th eburial subquest. Would prob be better to lock that until you've triggered that scene, with the chief/old man/old lady telling you "I think Phoebe wanted to speak to you".

I could've written these ideas in a much more concise way, hopefully that didn't scare you away from reading nor drown my point.

We're starting to get a bit philosophical. I enjoy the discussion, but for the sake of the giant walls of text we're leaving each other, I'll just reply to what's relevant to MnM.

The Holds do (or should, at least) have the option to teleport out. I know the swamps has you do one of them twice, but that should be the exception, not the rule. If there are more, or if the option to teleport isn't clear, or if there's something else that might improve that experience, let me know and I can update them.

You should also be able to see the end of most of the "mazes" in the wilds from the main path (or at least near it), so you don't need to check them by going the whole way through again. The camp in the wilds near your Estate is a unique example at the moment; I was initially planning on implementing something else there, decided to put that thing elsewhere, and what is there now isn't fully implemented yet. Same deal with those, though; if you think there's a maze worth re-checking that you need to go most of the way to the end to check, tell me where it is.

The "killed all enemies" or "found all loot" notifications aren't a bad idea (and I've done something similar for things like manually picking up all the wood when repairing your Estate floors), but we're only about a third of the way through the story and I've got 276 unique maps as of v0.6 development. If each map gets two variables to track what's hidden there, that's (for the sake of rounding) 550. If that number triples (and it'll likely quadruple or more) over the rest of development, that's 1650 unique variables. Even ignoring how many opportunities that has to break or how much extra work that is to set up, that starts to limit what I can use variables for in other aspects of the game (with the earlier scrap wood example working off of a variable I was already using for that segment). That's also ignoring issues that might arise with areas that change with the seasons (something that will come in v0.6.x updates), and maps that have more enemies appear as time passes (which is something I intend to do with the Deep Wilds). TL;DR, good suggestion, but it isn't realistically viable.

This does better articulate the feeling of "grind" that I've seen a small handful of people mention (and for whatever reason don't feel myself), though. It's definitely worth addressing, I'll just need to find a different solution than overt notification. For example, there are a few maps coming to mind that I could make less maze-y so that it's easier to see that it's empty. That obviously won't work for every map, though. If you (or anyone else reading this) have any other ideas, I'm open to suggestions.

For your last few points:
Good call-out; there's a lot I want to do differently there. Added that to the list.
Related to the previous; it'll get (likely significantly) smaller when it's reworked. I don't really like the idea of adding sparkles (it feels immersion-breaking to me without narrative justification), otherwise I'd already be using them. Fun fact: The one time I almost used it is related to the key there. People would've hated it. (Which kinda makes me want to do it. >.>)
I'll have to test Phoebe's dialogue not triggering. I know you can miss it entirely if you do at least the minimum required and leave without going back to her house, but there shouldn't be a single quest that just turns off that dialogue if you do that part first.
Same with the funeral quest. I'm not sure I can adjust for accidentally stumbling into it, but it shouldn't trigger until you've done all the other side quests. Both are now in my notes.

Any news aboyt update?

Short answer: it should be out to my Patrons this weekend. If not, next weekend. Public comes a week after it goes to my supporters, so there will be an update here next Friday if all goes well.

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.

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. Outside of extenuating circumstances, I always put up a weekly update, so checking my blog is usually good for info like that.

 

[Solak]

wall of text snipped

The regular checking is mostly a "me" problem. I tend to do that to make sure I haven't missed anything. Some games do hide secrets or such at weird times. "Oh no, the orphanage is burning! Quick, let's go there! ... Or we could also trek back to the city, talk to a random villager get a book that can only be obtained at this very precise moment in time, then walk all the way back and finally towards the orphanage."

... I kid you not.

The first area is mostly fine tbh. Same with the north one. It's the Deep Woods where things started going way south (get it? I'm so funny ). That and like I said, the hunting. I thought RPG Maker had local variables (to avoid using global ones), isn't this the case? Or maybe you thought to make it global to scan both areas at once, which isn't necessary at all. Each area can do its own count (with the wolves events calling the counter one) and that should do the trick... no? My memory of RPG Maker is a bit hazy now. If it's not possible, just making it easier to search like you said would be enough. Another suggestion would be to outright be told how many wolves there are when first starting... although that's playing with suspension of disbelief: how do the villagers know that?

For Phoebe's dialogue, I think it didn't trigger because I never visited her house before the end of the funeral quest. Once it's over, you're made to visit her and you get the Melissa crying dialogue... which I assume modifies a local switch, putting the event into a state that's assuming that Phoebe dialogue has already occurred.

Considering you mentioned sparkles being immersion-breaking, I'm assuming "!" bubbles to indicate new quests available and suchlike are out of the question as well. Meaning Baldur's Gate (a famous classic RPG, heavily tabletop-inspired) can be a good source of inspiration. It has vast maps, mostly full of emptiness... enemies tend to be in small groups rather than roaming alone, but you do have at least 1 or 2 events worth a trip in each map. You also get minor events, like named bandits that you shortly trade verbal jabs with before a fight ensues and so much more. Basically, it shares a bit of the same formula that battle royale games are using today: mostly unsettling peace and quiet in a vast space, anything happening can be deadly. Also, Baldur's Gate uses these to further its world-building, as well as modifying your reputation (don't think alignment could change). Might be worth checking out.

 

[hreserves]

The regular checking is mostly a "me" problem. I tend to do that to make sure I haven't missed anything. Some games do hide secrets or such at weird times. "Oh no, the orphanage is burning! Quick, let's go there! ... Or we could also trek back to the city, talk to a random villager get a book that can only be obtained at this very precise moment in time, then walk all the way back and finally towards the orphanage."

... I kid you not.

The first area is mostly fine tbh. Same with the north one. It's the Deep Woods where things started going way south (get it? I'm so funny ). That and like I said, the hunting. I thought RPG Maker had local variables (to avoid using global ones), isn't this the case? Or maybe you thought to make it global to scan both areas at once, which isn't necessary at all. Each area can do its own count (with the wolves events calling the counter one) and that should do the trick... no? My memory of RPG Maker is a bit hazy now. If it's not possible, just making it easier to search like you said would be enough. Another suggestion would be to outright be told how many wolves there are when first starting... although that's playing with suspension of disbelief: how do the villagers know that?

For Phoebe's dialogue, I think it didn't trigger because I never visited her house before the end of the funeral quest. Once it's over, you're made to visit her and you get the Melissa crying dialogue... which I assume modifies a local switch, putting the event into a state that's assuming that Phoebe dialogue has already occurred.

Considering you mentioned sparkles being immersion-breaking, I'm assuming "!" bubbles to indicate new quests available and suchlike are out of the question as well. Meaning Baldur's Gate (a famous classic RPG, heavily tabletop-inspired) can be a good source of inspiration. It has vast maps, mostly full of emptiness... enemies tend to be in small groups rather than roaming alone, but you do have at least 1 or 2 events worth a trip in each map. You also get minor events, like named bandits that you shortly trade verbal jabs with before a fight ensues and so much more. Basically, it shares a bit of the same formula that battle royale games are using today: mostly unsettling peace and quiet in a vast space, anything happening can be deadly. Also, Baldur's Gate uses these to further its world-building, as well as modifying your reputation (don't think alignment could change). Might be worth checking out.

Yeah, I've encountered a bit of that. I'm fine with it when it makes sense, but it drives me up a wall when it abuses the fact that time "doesn't pass" in games unless you tell it to. I'm not against hiding things in that way, but it better have a decent narrative reason. Ludo-narrative dissonance is the enemy.

RPG Maker does have local switches, but they're specific to the event, and those local switches can't talk to any other events. Not even a conditional branch for "event021" to check if "event023'A'=on", which continues to frustrate me (largely because it does let you check things like orientation and map position, but those things reset when you leave the map). There are some janky ways to force local switches to talk to other events anyway (some of which I use due to lack of options) but it's roughly twice as much work to do, and it still doesn't translate across maps (hence why you can solve the garden maze a second time for a second reward during the Freeze, but that second reward isn't there if you solve the original maze after the Freeze; I can't make the non-Freeze instance talk to the Freeze instance without a global switch or variable). I could use one variable per map to track everything, but that's still hundreds of variables and could lead to a whole new frustration of not being able to find the one hidden thing that it turns out you don't really care about (I've had that happen with Resident Evil games; room just won't turn blue after 20+ minutes of searching, and it's just 3 bullets under a pillow) and not knowing if it's an enemy or an item (or an event with no item or exp reward, if those are included or exist at all). It can't track why the variable went up, just that it went up. The other option is doing it by area to cover multiple adjacent maps, but that still has the same issue (even with different variables for events/fights/items); if you kill all the things but don't find all the items, you're still scouring empty areas for however long for what might be an antidote when you already have the trophy that's infinite antidotes. At that point, it feels like I'm changing the frustration, not eliminating it.

Most other potential solutions either make certain things more difficult on the back end (like if I add enemies or items to an area, I need to change the variable checks, get a fresh save, test it again, and go on that loop until it works) or outright impossible (using the Freeze as an example again - if you clear your Estate grounds, then the Freeze happens and there's new stuff, you won't think to look for it because you already cleared that map; or if I use a self-switch for the tracker, it'll just be permanently broken for existing saves with the only possible fix being that I script a custom event and fix individual saves manually). Some of that can be circumvented, but then we loop back to the problem of seeing and dismissing "Picked up Scrap Wood!" 257 times. Same with making an item that would check the map you're on and tell you if there's anything left (like the item finder/dowsing machine in Pokemon games); it's possible, but eliminating global switches/variables from that process would be janky and incredibly time consuming, and may effect performance on older machines or emulators due to heavily using parallel process events. It's the sort of thing that I look at and think "maybe it would make the game better, but why would I spend 5+ hours testing it and another 25+ hours implementing it everywhere when I could spend 10 hours on 3 simpler things that would definitely make the game better?" For as long as I have a list of QoL changes to make, it's hard to justify spending time on something I'm unsure of.

As a quick aside, that logic is why I'm focused on the next story update right now. It's been over 2 months, which is way too long. Never mind that my supporters deserve better from me (and they do), it's a weight on my mind that makes working at all less enjoyable. I get this out, more people play the game, I get more/better feedback, I get the weight off my mind, and I can work on QoL while people digest the new content. Conversation like we're having has been really rare, even when I outright ask for it (and why I'm so grateful for it; I hope that gratitude is coming through), it usually only happens following new content releases.

For Phoebe's dialogue, yup, that'd do it. I think I originally wanted that to happen because it felt really weird to go back and discuss that after all the emotion of the funeral, but I've learned a few things I can do to create a bit of separation. It'll still be missable if you complete the funeral and leave, but it shouldn't bug out and never happen. It'll have to go untested for now, but it's (probably) fixed for the next release.

And yeah, I don't like the "!" thing, either. The closest thing to overt visual guidance I actually like are things like Elden Ring's grace trails, or Resident Evil or Horizon painting things yellow to highlight them for you, or platformers scooting the screen in the direction you're meant to go. I'm a stickler for immersion, and I like to think I'm smart enough to find better (or at least cleverer) solutions (even if it takes some feedback to get there).

 

[Solak]

Yeah, I've encountered a bit of that. I'm fine with it when it makes sense, but it drives me up a wall when it abuses the fact that time "doesn't pass" in games unless you tell it to. I'm not against hiding things in that way, but it better have a decent narrative reason. Ludo-narrative dissonance is the enemy.

RPG Maker does have local switches, but they're specific to the event, and those local switches can't talk to any other events. Not even a conditional branch for "event021" to check if "event023'A'=on", which continues to frustrate me (largely because it does let you check things like orientation and map position, but those things reset when you leave the map). There are some janky ways to force local switches to talk to other events anyway (some of which I use due to lack of options) but it's roughly twice as much work to do, and it still doesn't translate across maps (hence why you can solve the garden maze a second time for a second reward during the Freeze, but that second reward isn't there if you solve the original maze after the Freeze; I can't make the non-Freeze instance talk to the Freeze instance without a global switch or variable). I could use one variable per map to track everything, but that's still hundreds of variables and could lead to a whole new frustration of not being able to find the one hidden thing that it turns out you don't really care about (I've had that happen with Resident Evil games; room just won't turn blue after 20+ minutes of searching, and it's just 3 bullets under a pillow) and not knowing if it's an enemy or an item (or an event with no item or exp reward, if those are included or exist at all). It can't track why the variable went up, just that it went up. The other option is doing it by area to cover multiple adjacent maps, but that still has the same issue (even with different variables for events/fights/items); if you kill all the things but don't find all the items, you're still scouring empty areas for however long for what might be an antidote when you already have the trophy that's infinite antidotes. At that point, it feels like I'm changing the frustration, not eliminating it.

Most other potential solutions either make certain things more difficult on the back end (like if I add enemies or items to an area, I need to change the variable checks, get a fresh save, test it again, and go on that loop until it works) or outright impossible (using the Freeze as an example again - if you clear your Estate grounds, then the Freeze happens and there's new stuff, you won't think to look for it because you already cleared that map; or if I use a self-switch for the tracker, it'll just be permanently broken for existing saves with the only possible fix being that I script a custom event and fix individual saves manually). Some of that can be circumvented, but then we loop back to the problem of seeing and dismissing "Picked up Scrap Wood!" 257 times. Same with making an item that would check the map you're on and tell you if there's anything left (like the item finder/dowsing machine in Pokemon games); it's possible, but eliminating global switches/variables from that process would be janky and incredibly time consuming, and may effect performance on older machines or emulators due to heavily using parallel process events. It's the sort of thing that I look at and think "maybe it would make the game better, but why would I spend 5+ hours testing it and another 25+ hours implementing it everywhere when I could spend 10 hours on 3 simpler things that would definitely make the game better?" For as long as I have a list of QoL changes to make, it's hard to justify spending time on something I'm unsure of.

As a quick aside, that logic is why I'm focused on the next story update right now. It's been over 2 months, which is way too long. Never mind that my supporters deserve better from me (and they do), it's a weight on my mind that makes working at all less enjoyable. I get this out, more people play the game, I get more/better feedback, I get the weight off my mind, and I can work on QoL while people digest the new content. Conversation like we're having has been really rare, even when I outright ask for it (and why I'm so grateful for it; I hope that gratitude is coming through), it usually only happens following new content releases.

For Phoebe's dialogue, yup, that'd do it. I think I originally wanted that to happen because it felt really weird to go back and discuss that after all the emotion of the funeral, but I've learned a few things I can do to create a bit of separation. It'll still be missable if you complete the funeral and leave, but it shouldn't bug out and never happen. It'll have to go untested for now, but it's (probably) fixed for the next release.

And yeah, I don't like the "!" thing, either. The closest thing to overt visual guidance I actually like are things like Elden Ring's grace trails, or Resident Evil or Horizon painting things yellow to highlight them for you, or platformers scooting the screen in the direction you're meant to go. I'm a stickler for immersion, and I like to think I'm smart enough to find better (or at least cleverer) solutions (even if it takes some feedback to get there).

All in all, the gist is as follows: solutions exist but RPG Maker limitations deny the use of several of them. That's a shame, but changing engines would be too massive of an undertaking at this point. Since it's been too long for me and I forgot how I did (or tried to) make my events communicate, I can no longer provide any helpful input there.

Makes sense you'd be focused on story right now if you must put out an update for your supporters while not knowing how to properly tackle those QoL changes without sinking some time into it. The only suggestion left I can think of is not to spread monsters around the map but instead do it à la Baldur's Gate, grouping them up more and leaving some areas empty so as to break the monotony (moving 20 tiles, fight, rinse and repeat). And of course, varying monster spreading/behaviour patterns from one place to the next, again to break the monotony. Nothing vital or necessarily better, just something to consider and possibly play around with.

I might be back with more feedback later, after (and if) I've advanced in the story. Good luck to you.

 

[hreserves]

All in all, the gist is as follows: solutions exist but RPG Maker limitations deny the use of several of them. That's a shame, but changing engines would be too massive of an undertaking at this point. Since it's been too long for me and I forgot how I did (or tried to) make my events communicate, I can no longer provide any helpful input there.

Makes sense you'd be focused on story right now if you must put out an update for your supporters while not knowing how to properly tackle those QoL changes without sinking some time into it. The only suggestion left I can think of is not to spread monsters around the map but instead do it à la Baldur's Gate, grouping them up more and leaving some areas empty so as to break the monotony (moving 20 tiles, fight, rinse and repeat). And of course, varying monster spreading/behaviour patterns from one place to the next, again to break the monotony. Nothing vital or necessarily better, just something to consider and possibly play around with.

I might be back with more feedback later, after (and if) I've advanced in the story. Good luck to you.

Right. I'm hoping to move to MZ once I own a copy of it, but that's still a barrier for now.

I still appreciate the attempt; a lot of what you did suggest is still really helpful. I just need to be careful how closely enemies are grouped, because if they roam (and most do), the way I've got collision detection set up can create a "divide by 0" bug and crash the game if two or more trigger in sequence. I'll keep it in mind, though. And thanks for the good luck.

 

[matriks]

He said on his website that new update must be today but still nothing(

 

[hreserves]

He said on his website that new update must be today but still nothing(

https://f95zone.to/threads/maids-re-masters-v1-0-the-mithril-hourglass.112664/

 

[matriks]

https://f95zone.to/threads/maids-re-masters-v1-0-the-mithril-hourglass.112664/

NO not this one he write down on website that update 0.6 gonna come up today

 

[matriks]

https://f95zone.to/threads/maids-re-masters-v1-0-the-mithril-hourglass.112664/

Thats what he write down about net update 0.6 on his website it saying it must come up on firday


v0.6 is functionally done.



Everything is implemented. The final event works, which is something I'm not sure I was able to accomplish ever, never mind in time for this weekend. I managed to figure out not one, but two things that should make scripting in the future much, much easier.



There's even a new feature I've implemented. Due to the structure of MnM, it sadly isn't something I expect to be able to implement across the entire game, but I'm glad to have learned it and I'm hoping to make good use of it in the future.



I do still have some testing to do. My test save is bugged because apparently one character's class data is something that was lost when other files got corrupted, but that has since been fixed. I just need to go back to the save that's set before the v0.6 content and get a few fresh test waves done, fix any other issues I find, and put it in your hands.



I intend for it to be in your hands this Friday. I'm really looking forward to what the reception will be like, and figuring out the new things I have has re-kindled the fire that had been so thoroughly doused by the recent difficulties.



I can't wait to hear what you all think of this update, because I love it.

 

[hreserves]

NO not this one he write down on website that update 0.6 gonna come up today

I am he. I would hope I know what he wrote. Speaking of what I wrote, I said there would be

an update

and there was. =P

If you're really chomping at the bit to get to the new content,

You must be registered to see the links

.

 

[slaveofpeon]

After Reading a bit of the conversation between hreserves and Solak about Many fine refinement possibility, I figure i would chime in with my two cents.

When it comes to exploration or traveling long distances in a game, depending on the sprites you have available or can get/make, as mentioned by Solak for the wood counter, Less can be more. If you have been told the exploration of a specific area is dry, sometimes something as simple as just a cool setpiece can make it feel like more. An example is if there is a forest maze with dead ends, make one of them an unexplorable ruined shrine/ dilapidated well/ an old woodsmiths hut with a minor loot drop or enemy.

If there is a maze that is a hassle and a person has to travel back and forth through it, a simple "If-Else" handler tied between a quest item/triggered event to the map transition point is an easy way to prevent code breaking. Just make sure to tie the code to both ends of the area. (ie, you solve the maze, get to the quest point, quest is triggered/quest item picked up, which triggers the secondary transit function to bypass the maze by overriding the original transition point, basically cutting the maze out after completion of the quest. Quest doesnt get completed, and person leaves, then they have to deal with the maze again, unles you tie the change in the transition points to a hidden single trigger event. Least thats how i used to do it, but that was all by hand. I think the new rpgm have command functions to make that easier than hand coding everything, but I havent dived in the rpgm since 2008.)

 

[hreserves]

After Reading a bit of the conversation between hreserves and Solak about Many fine refinement possibility, I figure i would chime in with my two cents.

When it comes to exploration or traveling long distances in a game, depending on the sprites you have available or can get/make, as mentioned by Solak for the wood counter, Less can be more. If you have been told the exploration of a specific area is dry, sometimes something as simple as just a cool setpiece can make it feel like more. An example is if there is a forest maze with dead ends, make one of them an unexplorable ruined shrine/ dilapidated well/ an old woodsmiths hut with a minor loot drop or enemy.

If there is a maze that is a hassle and a person has to travel back and forth through it, a simple "If-Else" handler tied between a quest item/triggered event to the map transition point is an easy way to prevent code breaking. Just make sure to tie the code to both ends of the area. (ie, you solve the maze, get to the quest point, quest is triggered/quest item picked up, which triggers the secondary transit function to bypass the maze by overriding the original transition point, basically cutting the maze out after completion of the quest. Quest doesnt get completed, and person leaves, then they have to deal with the maze again, unles you tie the change in the transition points to a hidden single trigger event. Least thats how i used to do it, but that was all by hand. I think the new rpgm have command functions to make that easier than hand coding everything, but I havent dived in the rpgm since 2008.)

Both good suggestions, both of which I already do, so I take your meaning to be that I should do more things like that (for examples; there's both an altar and a tower in the Deep Wilds that the characters can't explain that will have significance later; after you complete Holds, you can use the headstone at the end to teleport to a few different places, including the entrance; a fast travel system exists that opens up as you complete sections of the story so you're not constantly walking through old areas unless you want to re-explore them; you can find roughly half of the Holds before you can access them; there's lots more).

I'm not sure if you saw this my responses to Solak, but I've mentioned that my issue isn't that I can't or won't put something somewhere, it's that I don't know what to put there, and not having any ideas leads to the area remaining empty while I implement ideas for other places. I've either edited or made from scratch nearly everything that appears in the game, so custom sprites aren't a barrier, per se.

Most of the trouble I run into ends up being what you mention about exploration of a specific area feeling "dry" or "empty" or "too big;" almost no one actually mentions a specific place, and seem to want to give general advice instead of specific feedback when I ask for clarification on what they mean or want unless they encountered a bug (shout out to everyone who helped me fix bugs - ya'll are awesome).

If you have any specific examples (as in which maps feel dry, or where set-pieces might be appropriate), I'm more than happy to hear you out. Though I will mention (since I'm not sure I have yet) that both the uncle's Estate and Lothario's Estate are going to be reworked. Both of those Estates are far larger than they need to be, so they'll be getting reduced to a more practical size once I've worked my way through the "known issues" in the changelog and a few of the smaller items in my notes.

 

[matriks]

Guys new update out

You must be registered to see the links

 

[pachinko jones]

Never seen a game on here that's just a straight exe download rather than a zip. I'm not very tech savvy but isn't that a little more dangerous than downloading a zip, cause you can usually check it before you extract it?