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Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
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There aren't any good options that I know of. All of them are low percentage. The only option I know of with a double digit chance is an extravagant marriage. Which means lots of marriages. Which means you have to be rich first. Poker can raise it to 90 but pretty much requires F5. Ensys can raise it but I'm not clear on the chance or how repeatable that is. If you start with less than 40 I think you can just go to sleep and have a high chance to get free points to raise it to 40 but if you started with Brainy you already have at least 50.

I think for a Rise start where I wanted to eventually get Master Tactician I would tally up how many points you can get from books and classes, subtract that from 90 and grind to there, then take classes/read books to put me at exactly 90. I don't know offhand how many points you can get from books and classes. I think books can give about 15. Classes probably somewhere close to another 15. So need to grind to probably somewhere around 60 before doing any of those. If you have Brainy that's only about 10 points.

All other stats and skills that you actually need are MUCH easier to raise.
After a little searching in the html for "masterint+=1", I suspect that the best option is to marry stormchild and then repeatedly go to the cafe with her. Not sure about the probability, but it looks like it could be 25%, but possibly inside another event making the probability much smaller. But the good part is that it looks repeatable and capped only by the wifes intelligence.

To get intelligence from wedding seems to require a $25k wedding for 20% chance... So 50 x $25k for 10 points.

For any normal start, I think I will simpy keep 90 Intelligence as a mandatory "trait" :)
 

khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,843
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After a little searching in the html for "masterint+=1", I suspect that the best option is to marry stormchild and then repeatedly go to the cafe with her. Not sure about the probability, but it looks like it could be 25%, but possibly inside another event making the probability much smaller. But the good part is that it looks repeatable and capped only by the wifes intelligence.

To get intelligence from wedding seems to require a $25k wedding for 20% chance... So 50 x $25k for 10 points.

For any normal start, I think I will simpy keep 90 Intelligence as a mandatory "trait" :)
If you mean the option for MC to gain int from taking his wife to the cafe that is a vanishingly small chance unless it's been changed. The way it used to work there was no chance at all unless your wife had more intelligence than you and you also had at least 90 academics or science. In that case there was kind of a nested chain of successes you had to get for MC to gain anything.

So first there was like a 25% chance success at the cafe visit. If you fail that then you automatically lose the chance at any gains. If you succeed and your wife has lower int than you then she has a new roll to see if she gains a point of Int. Chances of that were low but not too bad. Chance for MC to gain is zero.

If your wife had more int than MC then first you have to succeed at the initial event check. Then if both your science and academics were below the threshold then your chance of any gains is zero. If 1 of them was above the threshold then you get maybe a 0.01% chance of an Int gain. If BOTH of them were above the threshold then you get more like a 0.1% chance. So if you're relying on that for Int gains you're going to have to F5 dozens, if not hundreds of times per point at a bare minimum. The chance is definitely less than poker.

To make matters worse for MC gaining int, the chance was also dependent on how much difference there was between your wife's int and yours. If there was more than a 1 or 2 point difference then the chance dropped to essentially zero.

For extravagant marriage it's more like 20% chance per $25k wedding. So if you need to gain 20 points of Int expect to spend like $2 mil on 80 weddings to get it. I don't know what the actual chance is, but it's significantly better than 1%.
 

ded inside

Member
Jan 3, 2019
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163
Where can we find Milou Skye? The wiki says that on the second deck in the mastersphere, but there is no one there except the marine guards
 

Gunner Rey

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2018
1,097
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Where can we find Milou Skye? The wiki says that on the second deck in the mastersphere, but there is no one there except the marine guards
I haven't found her yet but I think I recall reading she has to be the pilot listed on the Mastersphere shuttle. I've been there a few times but not had her listed as the pilot. I started going there ~9AM to see who was listed as pilot but did that only twice and no joy so far.
 

ded inside

Member
Jan 3, 2019
133
163
I haven't found her yet but I think I recall reading she has to be the pilot listed on the Mastersphere shuttle. I've been there a few times but not had her listed as the pilot. I started going there ~9AM to see who was listed as pilot but did that only twice and no joy so far.
Oh, okay, I will try
 

khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,843
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I haven't found her yet but I think I recall reading she has to be the pilot listed on the Mastersphere shuttle. I've been there a few times but not had her listed as the pilot. I started going there ~9AM to see who was listed as pilot but did that only twice and no joy so far.
Oh is that random? I just did a quick start with the $750k enhanced money start just to see and she was my pilot on the first try. I just assumed she was always the pilot but maybe not. You can ask her out for a drink if she is. I didn't take it far enough to get to where I could hire her.
 

Gunner Rey

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2018
1,097
966
Oh is that random? I just did a quick start with the $750k enhanced money start just to see and she was my pilot on the first try. I just assumed she was always the pilot but maybe not. You can ask her out for a drink if she is. I didn't take it far enough to get to where I could hire her.
It sounds like you got lucky, I haven't had her yet. I'm going to try again now.
 

Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
614
683
if you dont want to share a save just dont reply on me
Or maybe read my original reply again, to understand that this is not the type of game where you would have any use for another persons save, and especially not one where they have already completed the game.

But let's pretend that you have actually lost your saves and want another persons save. What quests had you completed at that point? And what stats did your character have? Oh, you can't answer? I wonder why...
 
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khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
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Actually the int of npcs is still uncapped (there was something missed, when a few things did get capped in v8.32).

Concerning wife in Cafe: The bonus for the int increase to the skillroll (chance) is +15 (for aca>79 and science>79) and another +15 (for aca>89 and science>89) and the difference between wifes int and mcs int is substracted from the skillroll (skillroll is normal diceroll as chosen in the options), so the chance can be above zero (if the mcs int is not 30 points or more lower, or 20, if the wife has a scarefactor of 3 or more).

And the best marriage candidate (for really high int values) is the girl called "Luckie" (aka the hotel urchin)¹. Also wife in cafe is still a repeateable uncapped int increase (as the int of npcs is still uncapped), other repeatable int increases are capped.

¹) And as I think that at least Luckie's int should be uncapped, I will not give any information about which (repeatable) int increases for npcs was missed.
It might be more worth doing now than when I tried it last. I tested it quite a bit before the house expansion when we still had a max of 8 household slots and back then it was most definitely a waste of time. I believe it was also hard capped at 120 back then. The chance of Int gain from poker was significantly higher than the chance of int gain from the cafe. And the chance from poker is already pretty low.
 

Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
614
683
Actually the int of npcs is still uncapped (there was something missed, when a few things did get capped in v8.32).

Concerning wife in Cafe: The bonus for the int increase to the skillroll (chance) is +15 (for aca>79 and science>79) and another +15 (for aca>89 and science>89) and the difference between wifes int and mcs int is substracted from the skillroll (skillroll is normal diceroll as chosen in the options), so the chance can be above zero (if the mcs int is not 30 points or more lower, or 20, if the wife has a scarefactor of 3 or more).

And the best marriage candidate (for really high int values) is the girl called "Luckie" (aka the hotel urchin)¹. Also wife in cafe is still a repeateable uncapped int increase (as the int of npcs is still uncapped), other repeatable int increases are capped.

¹) And as I think that at least Luckie's int should be uncapped, I will not give any information about which (repeatable) int increases for npcs was missed.
Is this a correct interpretation?

Each time I bring my wife (who is 1 point more intelligent than me and 0 scared) to the cafe, I have 29% chance to increase my intelligence, if I have 90+ in both academic and science skills?

If yes, then it would seem like stormchild is the ideal wife for intelligence farming as I can keep adding 1 point to her intelligence, up to 120 intelligence? (Then later Urchin girl).
 

bolondro2

Active Member
Oct 12, 2018
592
640
Some words about the crafter trait and the artisan and Blacksmith skills.



With a plain start (no businessman class, no crafter trait) you start with +10+10 in artisan/blacksmith. After reading the books, assuming that you get the brainy trait, you get 30 blacksmith and artisan 28-29. Let´s round up to 30-30.

30-30 it´s good for nothing of value, or almost nothing.

In the armour department, you can craft padded armour, and it´s going to cost you more in raw materials that going to the shop and buy a new one.
In the weapons side, you can craft melee weapons up to sword, ranged weapons up to crossbow and pistols, so nothing of interest on this side, you can craft them with your workshop more efficiently.
In the medical field, you can craft Tendisim, injectors and Doctor´s Kit. That can be of marginal utility, but you are going to need a high Medical/Science skill and nanites, so nothing that you can get in the early part of the game.
The only thing useful it´s the ability to craft ammo. You need a 20/20 skill, and it´s by far more efficient to build ammo by yourself that make it via workshops. That used to be a big deal in early versions, when the combat was range centric, but now, with a melee centric combat the expense in ammo it´s a small one.

All in all, in this start, would be more efficient for you just forget about all the crafting stuff, the crafting books and all this mess. It´s not your thing, and if you need something, you just go to the shop and buy it. As a friend of mine used to say "I have a credit card and I´m not afraid of use it". You get nothing, but you have expend nothing, so everything its fine and fair

The second steep it´s to buy a steep in the business class, but not the crafter trait. You will start with Artisan 25 and Blacksmith 20, and after reading the books you get Blacksmith 40 and Artisan 43-44. Let´s round to 40-45

That means an investment of 20 character points. Not big, but not small. What you get on return?

In the armour side, after reading the books, you can craft Heavy Leather Armor. That´s something useful if you want to equip your "B" or "C" combat team, but not good enough to make a minimum serious profit making and selling. So, small potatoes here.
In the weapons side, you add rifles and shotguns to your building capabilities. Again, nothing to write home and you will be better building this things via workshops.
In the medical side, you don´t get anything new
And yes, you can build your ammo from day one. That´s may be the biggest advantage.

All in all, my opinion it´s that this it´s not worth the expense.

Next in the ladder it´s a steep in the business class and the Crafter trait. You will start with an artisan skill of 35 and Blacksmith of 30 and a nice bunch of raw materials. The value of the raw materials it´s nothing to sneeze at. 100 textiles, 200 steel, 200 wood and 150 merchandise are worth 7000$ at least. That will cost 30 character points, and that means that, after reading the books you will have a 50 Blacksmith and 53-54 artisan. We will, again, round it up to 50-55
.
Let´s see what you get in return.

On the armour side you will be able to build Heavy Leather Armour from day one, as soon as you build the anvil. The anvil it´s somewhat expensive (3500$) but you can sell part of your raw materials to finance it. That can be done with ease at end of day one (selling part of your raw materials) or at the end of day two (without selling them). In the prior build I was dismissive about building Heavy leather Armor. Well, it´s not the same to be able to build H Leather at day 15 that being able to do it at day two. In one case it´s upgrading the armour of your "C" team and in the other it´s upgrading the armour of your MC and your "A" (and only) combat team. Far superior. And also, and more important, late in the game you can build HULC armour from parts. You can get 11 free and quest related Hulk parts, and instead of "buying a Hulk Armor" you can just buy 4 parts and build your own. 4 Hulk parts are 90.000$ and 6.000 influence. A full suit, 1.100.000 and 12.000. The difference it´s huge

In the weapons and Medical field there are no difference at all. The +10 in crafting and blacksmith don´t give you anything in return.

In my opinion, if you invest in taking a steep in Businessman the Crafter Trait it´s mandatory (or almost). It´s worth the expense. Further investment´s in businessman are, in my opinion, more suited to roleplaying considerations ( I love my full businessman build) that to eficiency considerations, so I will let them aside

And now, some thoughts about "you can always raise blacksmith and artisan making knives and bolts", instead of taking Crafter. Yes, you can indeed. But it´s something that it´s very time and fatigue points consuming. Not sure about how it´s exactly managed, but assuming that it´s a 5% chance in increase for each item build, and supposing that you start building the quite useless bolts, you are going to need 10 hours and 40 fp to increase one point your Blacksmith or Artisan skill. That compares really bad with the time and fatigue expense in raising FP, Melee, Ranged, DX or ST, in a 5:1 ballpark.
 
Last edited:

Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
614
683
Some words about the crafter trait and the artisan and Blacksmith skills.



With a plain start (no businessman class, no crafter trait) you start with +10+10 in artisan/blacksmith. After reading the books, assuming that you get the brainy trait, you get 30 blacksmith and artisan 28-29. Let´s round up to 30-30.

30-30 it´s good for nothing of value, or almost nothing.

In the armour department, you can craft padded armour, and it´s going to cost you more in raw materials that going to the shop and buy a new one.
In the weapons side, you can craft melee weapons up to sword, ranged weapons up to crossbow and pistols, so nothing of interest on this side, you can craft them with your workshop more efficiently.
In the medical field, you can craft Tendisim, injectors and Doctor´s Kit. That can be of marginal utility, but you are going to need a high Medical/Science skill and nanites, so nothing that you can get in the early part of the game.
The only thing useful it´s the ability to craft ammo. You need a 20/20 skill, and it´s by far more efficient to build ammo by yourself that make it via workshops. That used to be a big deal in early versions, when the combat was range centric, but now, with a melee centric combat the expense in ammo it´s a small one.

All in all, in this start, would be more efficient for you just forget about all the crafting stuff, the crafting books an all this mess. It´s not your thing, and if you need something, you just go to the shop and buy it. As a friend of mine used to say "I have a credit card and I´m not afraid of use it". You get nothing, but you have expend nothing, so everything its fine and fair

The second steep it´s to buy a steep in the business class, but not the crafter trait. You will start with Artisan 25 and Blacksmith 20, and after reading the books you get Blacksmith 40 and Artisan 43-44. Let´s round to 40-45

That means an investment of 20 character points. Not big, but not small. What you get on return?

In the armour side, after reading the books, you can craft Heavy Leather Armor. That´s something useful if you want to equip your "B" or "C" combat team, but not good enough to make a minimum serious profit making and selling
In the weapons side, you add rifles and shotguns to your building capabilities. Again, nothing to write home and you will be better building this things via workshops.
In the medical side, you don´t get anything new
And yes, you can build your ammo from day one. That´s may be the biggest advantage.

All in all, my opinion it´s that this it´s not worth the expense.

Next in the ladder it´s a steep in the business class and the Crafter trait.You will start with an artisan skill of 35 and Blacksmith of 30 and a nice bunch of raw materials. The value of the raw materials it´s nothing to sneeze at. 100 textiles, 200 steel, 200 wood and 150 merchandise are worth 7000$ at least. That will cost 30 character points, and that means that, after reading the books you will have a 50 Blacksmith and 53-54 artisan. We will, again, round it up to 50-55
.
Let´s see what you get in return.

On the armour side you will be able to build Heavy Leather Armour from day one, as soon as you build the anvil. The anvil it´s somewhat expensive (3500$) but you can sell part of your raw materials to finance it. That can be done with ease at end of day one (selling part of your raw materials) or at the end of day two (without selling them). In the prior build I was dismissive about building Heavy leather Armor. Well, it´s not the same to be able to build H Leather at day 15 that being able to do it at day two. In one case it´s upgrading the armour of your "C" team and in the other it´s upgrading the armour of your MC and your "A" (and only) combat team. Far superior. And also, and more important, late in the game you can build HULC armour from parts. You can get 11 free and quest related Hulk parts, and instead of "buying a Hulk Armor" you can just buy 4 parts and build your own. 4 Hulk parts are 90.000$ and 6.000 influence. A full suit, 1.100.000 and 12.000. the difference it´s huge

In the weapons and Medical field there are no difference at all. The +10 in crafting and blacksmith don´t give you anything in return.

In my opinion, if you invest in taking an steep in Businessman the Crafter Trait it´s mandatory (or almost)

And now, some thoughts about "you can always raise blacksmith and artisan making knives and bolts". Yes, you can indeed. But it´s something that it´s very time and fatigue points consuming. Not sure about how it´s exactly managed, but assuming that it´s a 5% chance in increase for each item build, and supposing that you start building the quite useless bolts, you are going to need 10 hours and 40 fp to increase one point your Blacksmith or Artisan skill. That compares really bad with the time and fatigue expense in raising FP, Melee, Ranged, DX or ST, in a 5:1 ballpark.
You are a little bit off in the book gains. With Brainy trait, the Ingot book gives you 15 blacksmithing (and I belive 5 irelevant artisan points), meaning that if you start as Adept Business man with Crafter skill and read the Ingots book, then you get exactly 60 blacksmithing, which is what you need to craft combat armor. Each combat armor costs ~$300 in resources and sells for $1600 (at least in Grimdark, A dying world).

But, it also requires the anvil and lots of stamina to spend all days crafting, so you can get rich by doing it, but it won't be fast or you focused your entire build on it... And in that case you should probably aim for duraplate armors, which you can get very close to as an expert business man, and eventually craft 4-5 per day with a profit of ~$4k each.

I more or less accidentally stumbled upon the duraplate crafting for profit during one of my turtle start games, and figured that it seemed like a good stepping stone towards workshop. But when I tried do a new game with that as strategy, I ended up spending lots of time ramping up my stamina and basic needs, before I could actually buy a decent workshop ($55k) and ultimately concluded that it is not really worth doing.
 
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Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
614
683
And now, some thoughts about "you can always raise blacksmith and artisan making knives and bolts", instead of taking Crafter. Yes, you can indeed. But it´s something that it´s very time and fatigue points consuming. Not sure about how it´s exactly managed, but assuming that it´s a 5% chance in increase for each item build, and supposing that you start building the quite useless bolts, you are going to need 10 hours and 40 fp to increase one point your Blacksmith or Artisan skill. That compares really bad with the time and fatigue expense in raising FP, Melee, Ranged, DX or ST, in a 5:1 ballpark.
I have found that when crafting bolts... Given enough stamina to do it 23 hours per day, you are almost guaranteed to get at least a few points. If you only do it a few hours per night, you often get nothing and sometimes 1 or few points.

Without looking at the code, I'm guessing that it is probably an individual 5-10% chance to get either artisan or blacksmithing skill increase for each bolt (you never get increase in both skills from a single bolt). It also seems to be more difficult to increase skill, the higher your current skill is.
 
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