Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-10-16] [Melissa N.]

[rebirth095]

He never seems to protest and during the sex scenes with Nikos he really got into the session. Then there are his comments that it would simpler to accept that he has always been Elena.

It's pretty explicitly called out that Andrew not protesting during the sex scenes is part of the method acting:



And after playing with the idea about being easier to just be Elena, we get the punishment dream sequence where his subconscious is pretty explicit in calling him out:



I don't think the changes will be reversed, but I don't think it'll be a situation where Andrew happily becomes Elena and it's treated as sunshine and roses. I think it's possible he'll be resigned to be Elena, and left in a "hell of his own making", depending on how the story goes in terms of who is at fault and the more we learn about his backstory and how much he fucked over Marina.

More generally, I don't think he's accepted being Elena (yet) otherwise the story would already be over. If Andrew stops caring about why he is feminized, then there's no motivation for him to keep digging or questioning any of the strange things happening. Maybe Marina is still investigating, but you can't help someone who is unwilling to help themselves.

it is Toska ("I'm dropping off Joel here for a few months") and Elena ("what a grand idea") who basically force Andrew to be stuck as Elena.

I disagree. Elena might have agreed to it, but there's literally no reason why they couldn't come up with an excuse for Elena to not be there those few months.

"Oh, Elena is so excited about Marina's new marriage, she's traveling to America to help house hunt!" or literally anything. For being a businessman, he sure doesn't seem to have much skills in negotiating. Hell, lean into Toska's prejudices:

"Oh, my ditz of a wife completely forgot she's visiting America for the next few months. You know women, amirite?"

I can forgive Marina throwing up her hands in frustration and saying "you promised, so this is on you" and leaving given Andrew's previous selfishness. I can forgive Andrew because he wasn't fully in the right mind and he's in a weird situation. But Nikos... There are dozens of ways to have gotten out of this situation, and the fucker didn't even try.

But you know what he DID do? Propose with a ring before the dinner.

He seems super suspicious because even though we don't have directly guilty moments, he doesn't behave like a normal person should during the plot.

Why is he kissing Andrew disguised as Elena? Fine, let's say he just has a really strong trans fetish and is really into this whole situation. His sexuality doesn't excuse making out with his niece's husband. The times he's kissed Andrew before and during the dinner have been in situations where there's no one need to be faking it.

Alright, you're supposed to be putting on a show to avoid mob suspicion. Rather than a lower profile, you opt for a honeymoon+wedding? Why would that make sense as a better cover story? And again, why flaunt this in front of your niece?

Also, I just realized: Nikos seems to know about the full extent of Elena's surgeries even before having sex with her. He's hellbent on vagina penetration, but stops just to not push Elena too far.



I need to think about this more, but something about that doesn't sit right with me. The sisters apparently think the surgeries are reversible. So why is there a difference between the sisters and their father?

And again, going back to character behavior... maybe this is just a shallow "horny man" characterization, but I cannot believe that a moral man would use this situation and think "rather than be emotionally supportive, let's try fucking the manhood out of my niece's husband."

Seriously, we haven't had a single scene where Nikos treats Elena as a person, as opposed to a fucktoy. Where's the equivalent of the shower scene from Casino Royale?


There's a lot of speculation about an ending where Elena wants to stay Elena to be with a loving husband, but I honestly don't see the love. Where's Nikos' charm? Charisma? What does he have beyond his dick and his wallet?

Note, if this was just purely erotica, I wouldn't bat an eye at that kind of characterization. But again: this story has been a mystery story, which invites the reader to scrutinize to solve the mystery. As such, it's reasonable to expect plot and character to be able to stand up to scrutiny because when it doesn't, that's usually supposed to be the clues for the reader to pick up on to solve the mystery.

 

[Stevedore100]

View attachment 4148937

I need to think about this more, but something about that doesn't sit right with me. The sisters apparently think the surgeries are reversible. So why is there a difference between the sisters and their father?

And again, going back to character behavior... maybe this is just a shallow "horny man" characterization, but I cannot believe that a moral man would use this situation and think "rather than be emotionally supportive, let's try fucking the manhood out of my niece's husband."

Seriously, we haven't had a single scene where Nikos treats Elena as a person, as opposed to a fucktoy. Where's the equivalent of the shower scene from Casino Royale?

I go back to this part to possibly explain why Nokia and his daughters are not in the same page:

Elena wants to talk to Nikki's specifically, and whatever she tells him, it really does the trick. Nikos before the hospital is a different guy than Nikos after the hospital,- he goes from creepy uncle to devoted husband of 30 years who has no idea who Andrew is.

 

[rebirth095]

Nikos before the hospital is a different guy than Nikos after the hospital,- he goes from creepy uncle to devoted husband of 30 years who has no idea who Andrew is.

That last part does stick out as really jarring though. If Nikos is supposed to be innocent, the justification for him pretending Andrew doesn't exist is that Andrew is the one that came up with a plan to pretend to have always been Elena.

Except any rational person that sees Elena act super confused and suddenly start breaking her own rules and bringing up Andrew should have had a red flag and think something is wrong.

So many of us, before the timeline was clarified, was assuming that there was a large stretch of time where a healed Elena was taken over by a split personality, and the amnesia was that length of time. And the reason we made that assumption was because based on people's reactions (in particular Nikos'), it felt like there must have been a huge amount of time and offscreen stuff where "Aphrodite" had "taken over" and woven a tale that would have made Nikos lie to Elena in such a way.

But no: Our new understanding means that it's been like a few days. Elena comes home, tells Nikos to keep up pretending Elena is real, and then suddenly a few days later she's acting super confused and asking about Andrew.

Again, any rational person should have seen that as a red flag and would have done the right thing, which is try to find a private location to talk it through. Not our man Nikos though. He's too busy trying to get his dick in another hole.

Thanks for the reminder that the sisters were apparently informed by Marina. So this can be evidence (if Marina is "innocent") that Marina genuinely thought things were still reversible at this point and then found out the severity of the surgeries later, evidence that the Doctor is lying about how reversible things are, or Marina lied to the sisters for unknown reasons (as Elena herself seems to point out, the sisters sure seem enthusiastic about having a new mom...?)

 

[Stevedore100]

That last part does stick out as really jarring though. If Nikos is supposed to be innocent, the justification for him pretending Andrew doesn't exist is that Andrew is the one that came up with a plan to pretend to have always been Elena.

Except any rational person that sees Elena act super confused and suddenly start breaking her own rules and bringing up Andrew should have had a red flag and think something is wrong.

So many of us, before the timeline was clarified, was assuming that there was a large stretch of time where a healed Elena was taken over by a split personality, and the amnesia was that length of time. And the reason we made that assumption was because based on people's reactions (in particular Nikos'), it felt like there must have been a huge amount of time and offscreen stuff where "Aphrodite" had "taken over" and woven a tale that would have made Nikos lie to Elena in such a way.

But no: Our new understanding means that it's been like a few days. Elena comes home, tells Nikos to keep up pretending Elena is real, and then suddenly a few days later she's acting super confused and asking about Andrew.

Again, any rational person should have seen that as a red flag and would have done the right thing, which is try to find a private location to talk it through. Not our man Nikos though. He's too busy trying to get his dick in another hole.

Thanks for the reminder that the sisters were apparently informed by Marina. So this can be evidence (if Marina is "innocent") that Marina genuinely thought things were still reversible at this point and then found out the severity of the surgeries later, evidence that the Doctor is lying about how reversible things are, or Marina lied to the sisters for unknown reasons (as Elena herself seems to point out, the sisters sure seem enthusiastic about having a new mom...?)

The way that could solve Nikos is is Andrew/Elena provided was able to teach Nikos the method acting but and Nikita goes completely for it - Ninos is providing some really fine detail about their life - the initial quickie marriage, how Elena is just as tight as she was decade ago, some pretty random, but oddly detailed stuff that seems a bit much.

The sisters are an odd pair - "hey it's reversible but don't you wanna be 30 years older and switch out your hot wife for our dad?"

 

[LadyBoyJay]

the sisters sure seem enthusiastic about having a new mom...?

That comment reminds me of this scene from in chapter 2. It has always stood out to me.

I interpret the dialogue in that scene as they've never had a mother. Never ever! That story plot feels like an important puzzle piece that we don't have yet. I also don't feel like Nikos fits as their father. I haven't really noticed any father-daughter moments. Typically, girls being raised by a single dad turn out to be "daddy's girls" or "tomboys". Not always but typically. His daughters seem very independent from him and are very feminine in their appearances and their careers. I can't help but wonder who bestowed the female knowledge and influence upon the girls.

 

[rebirth095]

That comment reminds me of this scene from in chapter 2. It has always stood out to me.
View attachment 4149121
I interpret the dialogue in that scene as they've never had a mother. Never ever! That story plot feels like an important puzzle piece that we don't have yet. I also don't feel like Nikos fits as their father. I haven't really noticed any father-daughter moments. Typically, girls being raised by a single dad turn out to be "daddy's girls" or "tomboys". Not always but typically. His daughters seem very independent from him and are very feminine in their appearances and their careers. I can't help but wonder who bestowed the female knowledge and influence upon the girls.

I didn't necessarily read it as not ever having a mom, but reminiscing about it. A bit like when I took a vacation where I visited some friends and we just played video games all day. "It was nice being kids". It wasn't that I never had a childhood. It'd just been a long time where I could take off my "adult" hat and just be a stupid kid for a weekend.

That said, it's still a weird quote. No matter whether you use your interpretation or mine, I just find it really odd that as grown adults, their actions in "having a mom again" seem to all be around prepping her for sex with Nikos. Like, there was the smallest bit of "girl time" and that's been it! So I'm not entirely sure what the sisters are getting out of it.

Based on the subsequent actions, it feels more like they're roleplaying. Rather than it being about personal emotional fulfillment (having a mother figure), in the story itself the way it behaves has been more like fetish play. Like think about a schoolgirl or maid roleplay, and the dialogue feels way more natural.

I do think this isn't intended, but Eva and Sophie have always felt more like they're from a different story. Something more like the feminization staff in a JesscaTG story. They seem to be getting personal kicks out of it, rather than (as I said before) trying to fulfill an emotional or relationship need/desire.

 

[Stevedore100]

That comment reminds me of this scene from in chapter 2. It has always stood out to me.
View attachment 4149121
I interpret the dialogue in that scene as they've never had a mother. Never ever! That story plot feels like an important puzzle piece that we don't have yet. I also don't feel like Nikos fits as their father. I haven't really noticed any father-daughter moments. Typically, girls being raised by a single dad turn out to be "daddy's girls" or "tomboys". Not always but typically. His daughters seem very independent from him and are very feminine in their appearances and their careers. I can't help but wonder who bestowed the female knowledge and influence upon the girls.

In the scene of where they are talking to Elena in the hospital one of them says something to the effect of "our mother who didn't exist until a few months ago" which seems to suggest that at least there was no previous Elena and that Nikis has indeed been a living bachelor as was stated in the beginning.

 

[rebirth095]

In the scene of where they are talking to Elena in the hospital one of them says something to the effect of "our mother who didn't exist until a few months ago" which seems to suggest that at least there was no previous Elena and that Nikis has indeed been a living bachelor as was stated in the beginning.

It's important to look at the context of that quote:



She's saying this in context of AndrewElena. Eva is saying here that it would be bad if the police looked into it and realized that AndrewElena only started appearing a few months ago, not that there was never any Elena. Especially when she says "our dear mother", the "dear mother" is clearly being used in a sarcastic tone directed towards Andrew.

So I wouldn't take this to mean that the girls had no biological mother/their mother was not a woman named Elena.

 

[Stevedore100]

It's important to look at the context of that quote:

View attachment 4149372

She's saying this in context of AndrewElena. Eva is saying here that it would be bad if the police looked into it and realized that AndrewElena only started appearing a few months ago, not that there was never any Elena. Especially when she says "our dear mother", the "dear mother" is clearly being used in a sarcastic tone directed towards Andrew.

So I wouldn't take this to mean that the girls had no biological mother/their mother was not a woman named Elena.

It could be either way- Elena does have that mysterious ID card that does have a birthdate and all - if there had been a real Elena, you have would presume that info would relate to her, and be useful in proving to the police that Andrew is really Elena, but ifcits just made because there is no real Elena, they would be more hesitant but show it to the police.

 

[Thalantyr]

Nikos Nikita Ninos Nokia Nikki Nikis

Okay, at this point I have to ask: are you doing this on purpose?
It makes it a little hard to follow what you're saying sometimes. Great discussion though. I've been enjoying it.

 

[rebirth095]

It could be either way- Elena does have that mysterious ID card that does have a birthdate and all - if there had been a real Elena, you have would presume that info would relate to her, and be useful in proving to the police that Andrew is really Elena, but ifcits just made because there is no real Elena, they would be more hesitant but show it to the police.

I mean, a fake ID doesn't necessarily mean the info on it is actually real info. If it's just to pass the "smell test" then it could just all be made up.

That said, you remind me of another oddity and if someone can remember more specific examples, that would be great:

1) Was Sofia and Eva's mother actually named Elena, or have we just been assuming that?

2) Is Andrew currently pretending to literally be the original Elena? And I mean that twofold: Have the surgeries made him look like a mirror copy of Elena if she was still around? And are they all pretending that Elena never died/left/etc and Elena's been married to Nikos this whole time?

If "original" Elena was dead, especially now that the police are involved, but even if they weren't, this cover story just got even less sensible. Maybe we assume Toska is old and doesn't use tech, but it sounds like it's an open secret that Nikos is a playboy. Anecdotally, the "crazy old conservatives" that live near me seem to dig up and find all this gossip to support their wild conspiracy theories about their neighbors. Given what we're told about Toska, seems like it'd be easy to find out "real" Elena died X years ago? Or divorced Nikos?

I guess it's possible they never legally divorced. But even still, this particular plot point I'm not sure if it's an oversight or if it's a red flag for analysis...

 

[Elaine.]

It's pretty explicitly called out that Andrew not protesting during the sex scenes is part of the method acting:

I'm not sure it's method acting as the thought bubble in the image you used seems to suggest that Elena isnt sure herself that's what it is. However in the last sex scene between Nikos and Elena, Nikos is apparantly asleep in bed when Elena walks into the bedroom and then actively and willingly initiates the sexual activity between them. I have my doubts that anyone would do that willingly unless they had fully accepted their position mentally. Like I said there now seems to be no more howls of protest from Elena having to wear heels or having to wear revealing dresses or having large breasts as was the case initially. It seems that Elena is now perfectly and completely comfortable playing Nikos's wife as thought bubbles seem to confirm that. Then Nikos gets Elena to verbally confirm that she's happy with it.

Now that the good doctor has confirmed that the changes made are irreversible it seems that there is nothing that Elena can do but to accept it. There seems no way back to being Andrew again and Elena has to live with it. In fact the biggest concern Elena had with the doctor wasnt that the changes were irreversible and that Andrew is now stuck as Elena, but rather that Marina was party to what was going to happen. That seems to alarm Elena much more than the shock that she's now irreversibly female.

 

[rebirth095]

I'm not sure it's method acting as the thought bubble in the image you used seems to suggest that Elena isnt sure herself that's what it is.

Andrew doesn't fully understand what's going on, but consistently indicates that even the feelings/thoughts/urges are something that he's not "willingly" doing because "Andrew" wants to, but because "Elena" (the character he created) wants to.



Basically, the inner thoughts are truly inner thoughts, but sometimes they have been Andrew repeating a mantra to himself about how Elena should feel, not how Andrew is feeling about the situation.



Like during one of the first sex scenes, notice how the inner thoughts evolve. "Andrew" is telling "Elena" how to feel, and then the thoughts get so much more willing because it's "Elena" embracing that attitude.

It seems that Elena is now perfectly and completely comfortable playing Nikos's wife as thought bubbles seem to confirm that.

Not exactly. The thought bubbles are initially far more preoccupied about finding out if its a real pussy:



And then Nikos starts demanding Elena say (and effectively think) a certain way:



It's only after being told by Nikos what to think/feel does the inner thoughts start considering accepting this:



So I think it's important to look at the context of those thought bubbles that seem to be "accepting" of being Elena. They're always after being explicitly told to feel a certain way (either immediately, or at some previous point. For example, Elena starts thinking of herself as a cocksucker without being told to during the latest sex scene. But we know that "Andrew" has already seeded that belief way earlier in the first scene).

Ultimately, there's physical and mental feminiztion being done in this story. The mental part is called "method acting" but it's some weird intersection of method acting, split personalities, and some conditioning/mind alteration. We've seen Andrew tell himself how to think/believe. We've seen Nikos and other people do the same.

And really, for me the biggest red flag: Suddenly being unable to speak English and purely speaking Greek:



That really shows how pervasive this mental change has been.

Like I said there now seems to be no more howls of protest from Elena having to wear heels or having to wear revealing dresses or having large breasts as was the case initially.

But getting used to something and not complaining about it constantly, isn't the same thing as accepting/wanting it. I don't complain about having to wear a suit and tie to work everyday since I understand it's just what's expected, but it doesn't mean I want to. At some point, you muscle through it and don't dwell on the things you don't want.

Here's the thing, we don't have the negative reactions ("howls of protests") but we haven't seen any positive embracing either. It's not like Elena has on her own volition gone out shopping for clothes she wants to wear. The vast majority of her outfits are chosen for her and directed by other people. The closest thing we have to that is her wearing lingerie for sex, which is moreso about her trying to please her husband than her enjoying femininity.

In fact the biggest concern Elena had with the doctor wasnt that the changes were irreversible and that Andrew is now stuck as Elena, but rather that Marina was party to what was going to happen. That seems to alarm Elena much more than the shock that she's now irreversibly female.

Why would it being irreversible be a shock? Elena was already suspecting it to be irreversible.



And she calls the surgeries done to her "damage". That's not exactly accepting language.

So I think it's entirely natural for her shock to be that Marina knew. Because she's already been suspecting that the surgeries were irreversible, so being told that isn't new info. But if Marina was privy to that info, then that's not only new info but a potential massive betrayal. Of course Elena would respond more to that fact. It has huge implications on whether she can trust Marina. From Elena's POV, that calls into question everything Marina's told her.

 

[Elaine.]

Thanks for the detailed reply which makes more sense. The story does seem to be very complex and convuluted but perhaps what we have is something akin to Norman Bates in Psycho who had a schizophrenic or split personality but obviously Elena is not driven to the extent of murdering someone. In this situation the Andrew part is now completely hidden away from view and as you say doesnt voice complaints as Andrew only as Elena. He is clearly unable to come out into the open again with only the Elena part now fully on display. Yes your last comment about Marina would come as a huge shock as Marina had previously been disapproving of all this change and yet she seemed to have done little about it. Clearly Marina was unhappy about it because she storms off when she finds out Andrew had stupidly agreed to be Elena following the dinner party when he comes down as Elena from the bedroom. She goes off to Crete to get away but in time she's been was over ruled by the sisters and realised with persuasion that lives could be in danger unless Andrew became Elena in a completely convincing way.

Yes the use of the word "damage" is a curious one when clearly Elena isn't damaged goods and presents as a convincing middle aged woman.

 

[Stevedore100]

M

Okay, at this point I have to ask: are you doing this on purpose?
It makes it a little hard to follow what you're saying sometimes. Great discussion though. I've been enjoying it.

My apologies. My eyesight is not the best and "Nikos" gets spell checked to something else all the time and I miss them on a not infrequent basis. Will make extra effort to get it right.

 

[Thalantyr]

M

My apologies. My eyesight is not the best and "Nikos" gets spell checked to something else all the time and I miss them on a not infrequent basis. Will make extra effort to get it right.

No worries! I just had to giggle at "Nokia" and was wondering if you were doing a bit.
I hope I didn't make you uncomfortable by mentioning it. If so, I apologize. I appreciate what you bring to these discussions.

1) Was Sofia and Eva's mother actually named Elena, or have we just been assuming that?

2) Is Andrew currently pretending to literally be the original Elena? And I mean that twofold: Have the surgeries made him look like a mirror copy of Elena if she was still around? And are they all pretending that Elena never died/left/etc and Elena's been married to Nikos this whole time?

Aside from the ID we see that I've been assuming was doctored, there is no evidence in the comic that there ever was a real woman named Elena. At the beginning of the story, Nikos describes himself as a "bachelor":


So that means he was never married. He's not divorced nor is he a widower. And that makes it all the more likely that Elena's ID was doctored, since the ID has her last name as "Samaras", as if she's already married.

Also, Sofia says that she and Eva are "looking forward to finally having a mom":


So that implies that their mom died or abandoned them when they were very young (or that they are actually former men whose identities were erased to create new people known as Eva and Sofia and they never had a mom to being with... DUN DUN DUN!). If they were turning Andrew into a copy of an existing woman, you'd think she would have worded that a bit differently. Something like "it will be nice to have Mom back, even if just for a few days."

 

[rebirth095]

So that implies that their mom died or abandoned them when they were very young (or that they are actually former men whose identities were erased to create new people known as Eva and Sofia and they never had a mom to being with... DUN DUN DUN!). If they were turning Andrew into a copy of an existing woman, you'd think she would have worded that a bit differently. Something like "it will be nice to have Mom back, even if just for a few days."

Eva and Sofia in particular have just been weirdly fixated on the idea of having Elena marry Nikos, not so much having a mother in their lives. Like... if this was different scenario, like Eva's getting married and didn't have a father figure and really wished she had a father figure that walked her down the aisle that would make sense to me. But I really don't get what having Elena in their lives accomplishes.

Worst case scenario, now there's another person that Nikos' fortune is being spent on. Granted, none of them seem like they're desperate for money, but even still. It's really weird to me that they're effectively encouraging a "gold digger" into the family?

Like, taken a different way, there's a potentially a very nasty interpretation: Eva and Sofia are both victims of Nikos' sexual abuse and are entrapping Andrew to get away from that. It would be very in character for abuse victims to take their actions out on others rather than confront their abuser.

You're right though: self-referring as a bachelor is weird. Like maybe Eva's and Sofia's (assuming they had the same mother) mother was in a non-marriage but highly sexual relationship with Nikos, and she died in childbirth? Maybe this was before he was rich? It could explain some of his comments, like regretting not proposing 28 years ago. If he did love her that much, it is kind of weird for him to be so ready to replace her with a stand in...

But if original "Elena" died when Eva was just born, it could explain why Eva and Sofia don't say that it'd be nice having a mom "again". They would have no memories of being raised by Elena, so for them, it would be a first. So it could still be possible I think that AndrewElena is being made to look like Elena without contradicting what Eva and Sofia state.

 

[Thalantyr]

Like, taken a different way, there's a potentially a very nasty interpretation: Eva and Sofia are both victims of Nikos' sexual abuse and are entrapping Andrew to get away from that. It would be very in character for abuse victims to take their actions out on others rather than confront their abuser.

Along those same lines, if they were victims of Nikos' feminization scheme and forced to live with him as a "happy" family, it's possible that they've lost enough sanity that they now see it as normal to create new loving family members via feminization. Now they have a new mom and a new little sister.

 

[Stevedore100]

No worries! I just had to giggle at "Nokia" and was wondering if you were doing a bit.
I hope I didn't make you uncomfortable by mentioning it. If so, I apologize. I appreciate what you bring to these discussions.


Aside from the ID we see that I've been assuming was doctored, there is no evidence in the comic that there ever was a real woman named Elena. At the beginning of the story, Nikos describes himself as a "bachelor":
View attachment 4150750

So that means he was never married. He's not divorced nor is he a widower. And that makes it all the more likely that Elena's ID was doctored, since the ID has her last name as "Samaras", as if she's already married.

Also, Sofia says that she and Eva are "looking forward to finally having a mom":
View attachment 4150761

So that implies that their mom died or abandoned them when they were very young (or that they are actually former men whose identities were erased to create new people known as Eva and Sofia and they never had a mom to being with... DUN DUN DUN!). If they were turning Andrew into a copy of an existing woman, you'd think she would have worded that a bit differently. Something like "it will be nice to have Mom back, even if just for a few days."

Honestly, I really hate having to type Nikos -it's the word of hell for me...

But, yeah, we are told Nikos is a lifetime bachelor so Elena does seem a creation; who the mom (and Dad?) of the daughters is is a mystery. And either Nikos or Nikos and Andrew came up with a pretty detailed backstory that includes a hasty marriage long ago.
When Nikos proposes, Andrew internally wobbles, questioning wtf Nikos is saying, but then buys into 100% and ends up happily in bed with him. Is that Andrew going full immersion because he thinks he needs to or does Nikos know the way to get Andrew to go full Elena?

7 for 7!