Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-10-16] [Melissa N.]

[Stevedore100]

You are missing a timeskip. The flashback where the doctor explains all the procedures that were performed on Elena occurs 2 weeks after said surgeries. Elena then faints in her hospital bed. Then Seferi and Marina visit her in the hospital 2 weeks after she fainted. Take a look at my timeline if you need an explanation of how I worked that out. I had previously discounted this second 2-week period as being way too short to recover from a vaginoplasty, but in this update the doctor is now talking about a new procedure with a much faster recovery, so that's almost certainly intended to fit inside this window. We don't otherwise know anything that happened during this period before we see Seferi show up.


We already know that Marina knows about the vaginoplasty, so this all seems moot, doesn't it? In case you forget:
View attachment 4138569

Or are you thinking that Marina was not informed until after it was too late?


Yeah this part still makes no sense to me. If Marina is behind this, why is she angry? This line in particular:
View attachment 4138570

It hardly seems like cheating if she orchestrated everything that's happened so far.


I can see two possible explanations:

1. Elena woke up some time after we saw her faint in the flashback where the doctor explained the surgeries and, for some reason, consented to a vaginoplasty. We haven't witnessed anything that happened in the 2 weeks between her fainting and Seferi visiting, so it's possible something like this happened. It also seems unlikely that she remained unconscious for that entire 2 weeks unless the fainting was due to a medical problem.
2. The doctor inferred that he had consent due to the fact that they had already discussed long-term goals and only decided against the vaginoplasty because Elena said she didn't want to be incapacitated for that long. But with this new procedure, recovery time is drastically reduced, so this problem is solved. This of course would never fly in the real world, but it seems at least somewhat plausible in the world of forced feminization fantasy where a doctor already performed a host of radical and unethical surgeries on a woman who consented while obviously dazed and confused.

This all is hard to reconcile with anything logical. Andrew consents RI the surgery but didn't remember, Marina then ok's it. So, yes, why is Maria so pissed later on? And. Why does Marina wonder if Elena "knows she has a vagina" (I can't recall her exact quote), If Andrew gave the doctor permission to do it? Is she counting on his memory lapses for some reason? I don't think so; she seems genuinely hurt by all this.
Does this make it more likely Marina is the person in the fuzzy photo? Again, I dont think so.

I'm leaning now towards some really outside the box explanation as too much is conflicting and characters reactions don't budge sense if this is just some linear storyline. And it likely involves Filip, as Marina seems to bring him up so often. Was there some switch involving Filip? He disappears at the same time Andrew goes to the hospital and has bruising that is supposedly from the crash, but maybe he had surgery?

 

[Alicia Mae]

I don’t like Marina being the bad guy, but I think we might be headed there.

We only see her actions in Crete through her retelling.

We only see her actions in the hotel lobby through her retelling.


So it’s entirely possible thats she’s lying about both.


Furthermore, she could’ve been the one to drug Andrew before the surgery, since she was there with him, and seemed to suffer no ill effects from her tea.

We can’t forget that she knew for weeks that none of this was reversible, and still stuck to the earring code and didn’t tell Andrew anything. She refers to him as Andrew when she meets with him in the recovery room. Why not tell him then? Why wouldn’t she tell him he got his dick cut off? Or that none of it is reversible? She was just gonna wait for him to discover it on his own? I’m starting to think that Marina paints herself well in these flashbacks but is actually lying.

Also, mythically speaking, Aphrodite is born when an ancient God’s genitals are cut off, and they are transformed in the sea. Marina’s name might be a nod to ger helping to “give birth” to Andrew’s alter ego. I don’t think it’s a stretch for Melissa to hide that foreshadowing. Just like Roan means red-haired, and I believe Roan Gjoka is a red herring.

As far as her outrage about Elena sleeping around? She’s thinking all of this while riding another man’s cock. And she doesn’t stop him because she feels guilty. She stops him because she’s mad at Elena. She also wants the detective to “punish” her like a “mob boss”. Surely she must feel she’s done something bad if she needs to be punished. Maybe something like consenting to your husband’s sex change operation wothout his knowledge? Lol.

 

[rebirth095]

I had previously discounted this second 2-week period as being way too short to recover from a vaginoplasty, but in this update the doctor is now talking about a new procedure with a much faster recovery, so that's almost certainly intended to fit inside this window. We don't otherwise know anything that happened during this period before we see Seferi show up.

If that's really the intended window for Elena to have a second surgery... That just seems insanely convoluted. Like, what's the payoff here? For the characters and for the reader? Like... were we supposed to be on the edge of our seats this whole time wondering if Elena had a "real" vagina? Like... I dunno... It just feels like a very underwhelming reveal which requires a overly complicated series of events to have been set up.

Or are you thinking that Marina was not informed until after it was too late?

Yes, I think the timing matters here because it greatly affects whether Marina is lying when we get this scene:



If the Doctor actually called Marina after the "first" set of surgeries to inform her that they're moving forward with this advanced vaginoplasty, then her reaction here is her completely lying then.

Conversely, if she wasn't called and found out later (for example, now that she has the time, maybe she actually searches up what each procedure is), then her reaction is genuine. Or, maybe Elena explores her body and the shock of having the vagina not being a prosthetic causes the memory loss?

It hardly seems like cheating if she orchestrated everything that's happened so far.

Great example! 100%! And that's inner thoughts, so it's not like we've got an unreliable narrator here.

I can see two possible explanations:

I know you're just theory crafting, but while those are possible, I can't help but feel like this is stretching the suspension of disbelief so hard just to justify that the Doctor was sortof "innocent".

And it goes back to the "why". Like let's say the Doctor is unethical but wasn't paid off. I can't fathom what that possible helps in the story. Let's say that Marina was behind this all along (discounting the mountain of evidence that points to that not making sense), since she has quite a few opportunities here to help make the "Doctor is innocent" happen. She's the family contact. She's the one with Elena and leaves her to a bunch of procedures.

Why is making the Doctor innocent helpful to this story? Like, outside of having a "It was me, Barry" style Zoom-Posting for Marina, why should anyone care that the Doctor is innocent? So what if he was paid off. Having him be paid off makes him unethical. Having him not be paid off but have done all these surgeries means he's still unethical and also an idiot. One that also roped in some random colleague that got the bright idea of "while we have Elena here, wanna try some experimental surgeries on her?"

Where's the payoff?

Though to rule it out we'd first have to discuss when the doctor exactly made that phone call. This was around the time Marina could have been in Crete, but she also could have been back with her family.

Just as a reminder, Marina was in Crete before going to the consultation with the Doctor. Thalantyr's timeline marks Marina having returned from Crete on D+12, while the consultation is on D+19, 1 week later.

I don't know, not necessarily? If it was Marina who took Elena to the hospital both times I don't think it's unreasonable for her to be a contact for the hospital. When my grandmother wasn't well and my mum drove her and my grandfather to the hospital for her checks my mum was their contact.

Fair, but I guess I wasn't clear in the second point that bothered me: This whole transformation has been about optics. This family is trying to pretend that Elena is Nikos' loving wife. They believe Toska has eyes everywhere. The cover story is that Elena is in a car accident. So from an optics standpoint, why is Nikos nowhere in the picture? Why isn't he visiting his wife, meeting the Doctors, etc? Why is the Doctor being allowed to openly talk about the fact that he believes Elena is a transwoman, when that should be a MASSIVE loose end to this entire insane cover story?

Like, pretend you're the family for a second. You believe a mob boss is after you to the extent he's sent Roan to tail Marina! So what happens when Roan follows Marina to the hospital and asks the staff or the Doctor about Elena? If the Doctor hasn't been paid off, then how did they convince him to and everyone else at the hospital to maintain a cover story that there was a car accident?

Does this make it more likely Marina is the person in the fuzzy photo? Again, I dont think so.

Honesty, I think that either way, this raises the chances Marina is in the fuzzy photo. Even if she's not been behind Andrew's feminization. This is entirely for meta reasons, but I think that we'll find out Marina is talking to Seferi about feminizing Joel, and that'll be meant to make Marina look that much more guilty just to set up another twist where this was a misunderstanding and Marina was working with Seferi, but wasn't working against Andrew.

We only see her actions in Crete through her retelling.

We only see her actions in the hotel lobby through her retelling.

So it’s entirely possible thats she’s lying about both.

Here's the problem I have with that: we don't get her just retelling, we have those scenes played out for us. If she was just using text boxes to explain to Andrew, then I would 100% agree that she could be lying. But having the scene play out explicitly for us is telegraphing that these "god view" scenes are factual. As a reader, you should be able to expect that the author won't be breaking those storytelling tenants. Because if what we're shown "on screen" isn't actually factual, then we can just as easily call into question the accuracy of any flashback or dream sequence. At that point, an equally valid way to interpret is to say:

"Andrew doesn't really understand the medical lingo anyway, so that first dream sequence where Elena remembers waking up after surgeries are just misremembered due to her being an unreliable narrator."

This is not to say unreliable narrators aren't possible. They absolutely are. But even/especially in those stories, they adhere to structural narrative rules in order for there to be consistency in how information is presented to the reader. Going back to A Song of Ice and Fire, every chapter is written in third person, so you might be tempted to think that this is a "God POV" and completely factual. But one thing that's telegraphed is that each chapter starts with a massive label showing that the chapter is biased to the character in question. Therefore, "facts" presented in the chapter by the character are subject to being an "unreliable narrator".

We can’t forget that she knew for weeks that none of this was reversible, and still stuck to the earring code and didn’t tell Andrew anything. She refers to him as Andrew when she meets with him in the recovery room. Why not tell him then? Why wouldn’t she tell him he got his dick cut off? Or that none of it is reversible? She was just gonna wait for him to discover it on his own? I’m starting to think that Marina paints herself well in these flashbacks but is actually lying.

Wait, how did she know for weeks that none of this was reversible? Or rather, what timeframe are you referring to? If you believe the Doctor, then sure she knew and didn't tell Andrew. But you have to believe the Doctor who is already super shady. Or do you mean the weeks after the dinner party after the memory loss? Well, we find out Marina has been unable to contact Elena and she's literally calling the Sofia because she's concerned Elena isn't responding to the code phrase.

A really simple explanation is:

Marina doesn't know fully what was done to Andrew. The Doctor is lying and might not have even called anyone.

Andrew accidentally (due to memory loss) ghosts Marina and then goes off on a honeymoon with Nikos.

Marina is feeling gaslit and starts doing some investigating of her own. This leads her to learning that Elena signed off on the advanced procedures that she hadn't been aware of.

Continuing the misunderstanding and resentment, she has convinced herself that Andrew is just being selfish and fucking with her (while fucking Nikos). After all, he's the one that prolonged the commitment to stay as Elena, fed her the story about the family being in danger, and kept trying to have her play along even when it didn't make sense. So out of spite (for some reason) she fucks the inspector.

Surely she must feel she’s done something bad if she needs to be punished. Maybe something like consenting to your husband’s sex change operation wothout his knowledge?

Sure, or there's a part of her that feels guilty for cheating on Andrew? Or the simplest one is just to play into male fantasies.

Really, I think the biggest thing is trying to answer, does Marina have means, motive, and opportunity?

She kind of has motive. But not really. Like she wants to punish Andrew... how does transforming him to her rich Uncle's trophy wife do that?

Does she have means? Andrew lost a ton of their money, so she isn't exactly bursting with resources. And there's no indication that she was super familiar with sleezy Doctors before coming to Greece, and she doesn't have many connections there anyway. So... not exactly any means.

What about opportunity? At best, maybe she knew Nikos loves telling the cross-dressing story. But how would she know/set-up Toska visiting to have an incentive for Nikos to get the idea and pitch to Andrew to disguise himself as Elena.

So at best, Nikos has to be on board with this plan to have any real chance at success right? But if that were the case, then you have the previous problem of you can't turn your husband into your uncle's trophy wife and then get mad that he decides to fuck her.

Seriously: why the hell would you give your husband vaginoplasty and then not expect him to use it? That just doesn't make any sense.

As far as her outrage about Elena sleeping around? She’s thinking all of this while riding another man’s cock.

No, she's pissed off much earlier than that:



Pissed off enough that she apparently decides to "get even" by sleeping with another man.



And ultimately, I'm gonna go back to the thought that keeps nagging at my mind: What's the satisfying ending here? We've started ramping up evidence that Andrew's kind of a selfish prick. So... does he "deserve" to be a milf trophy wife to a loving husband?

That said, Andrew is selfish, but also not the worst human being imaginable. So would it be considered really messed up to feminize your husband over losing your savings, and if Marina is "guilty" of feminizing Andrew, does she deserve to have a "happy end"?

This is a weird needle we're threading, and I think Marina being complicit throws way more hurdles in the whole notion of "ending that won't leave a bad taste in people's mouths".

 

[Thalantyr]

And it goes back to the "why". Like let's say the Doctor is unethical but wasn't paid off. I can't fathom what that possible helps in the story. Let's say that Marina was behind this all along (discounting the mountain of evidence that points to that not making sense), since she has quite a few opportunities here to help make the "Doctor is innocent" happen. She's the family contact. She's the one with Elena and leaves her to a bunch of procedures.

Why is making the Doctor innocent helpful to this story? Like, outside of having a "It was me, Barry" style Zoom-Posting for Marina, why should anyone care that the Doctor is innocent? So what if he was paid off. Having him be paid off makes him unethical. Having him not be paid off but have done all these surgeries means he's still unethical and also an idiot. One that also roped in some random colleague that got the bright idea of "while we have Elena here, wanna try some experimental surgeries on her?"

Where's the payoff?

I suppose that if the doctor is not innocent, who would be paying him off? And that depends on who is behind the feminization plot. If it is Marina acting alone, then she doesn't have the means/muscle/influence to pay off the doctor, which would mean no one is paying him off, aside from the normal fees he receives for doing his job at the clinic.

Fair, but I guess I wasn't clear in the second point that bothered me: This whole transformation has been about optics. This family is trying to pretend that Elena is Nikos' loving wife. They believe Toska has eyes everywhere. The cover story is that Elena is in a car accident. So from an optics standpoint, why is Nikos nowhere in the picture? Why isn't he visiting his wife, meeting the Doctors, etc?

Well, we don't really know what happened during the 4 weeks Elena was in the hospital. It's implied that she was unconscious at least for the 2 weeks between the initial surgery and the doctor visiting her in her room. It's also possible that she was unconscious for the next 2 weeks after fainting (and apparently receiving a vaginoplasty). We don't see anything that happened during those 2 weeks either, until Seferi and Marina show up at the hospital. Nikos later mentions that it's normal for Elena to feel disoriented after spending so much time unconscious, so I'd guess she was only awake for the two scenes that we actually saw. It's entirely possible the Nikos visited multiple times during that period and we just didn't witness it.

Why is the Doctor being allowed to openly talk about the fact that he believes Elena is a transwoman, when that should be a MASSIVE loose end to this entire insane cover story? Like, pretend you're the family for a second. You believe a mob boss is after you to the extent he's sent Roan to tail Marina! So what happens when Roan follows Marina to the hospital and asks the staff or the Doctor about Elena? If the Doctor hasn't been paid off, then how did they convince him to and everyone else at the hospital to maintain a cover story that there was a car accident?

In the real world, this would be a massive privacy breach. The doctor would open himself up to a lawsuit if he divulged any medical information about a patient to any third party aside from specifically designated family members.

All that being said, while I personally am not entirely convinced that the doctor is evil, it would certainly make the story much more believable if he was, so I agree with you there. I also think that the doctor coming right out and saying Marina signed off on the vaginoplasty is too "easy". I'm anticipating another twist that explains this in a way that doesn't make it so obvious that she's complicit, even if she is.

 

[Stevedore100]

Again I will point out that, according to the doctor, it was Elena who first signed off in the surgery, then Marina. I still don't get why either one of them would do this, but it isn't just Marina.

I'm also thinking that maybe Marina is not really Marina - Nikos hasn't seen her since she was little. I guess I'd be going with some plot where Andrew and Marina are part of sone con job- explains the unhappy marriage, removes the ick of Nikos boinking his nieces husband, etc, and makes it less confusing about why Marina s pretty casual about Andrew getting remodeled completely.
At this point I have run out of rational explanations....

 

[misseva88]

Just as a reminder, Marina was in Crete before going to the consultation with the Doctor. Thalantyr's timeline marks Marina having returned from Crete on D+12, while the consultation is on D+19, 1 week later.

The doctor consult we see is their second appointment (p. 452). We don't know when the first one was. There was a week between Marina returning and that appointment, so there's the possibility she wasn't around her family when the first appointment happened.

Fair, but I guess I wasn't clear in the second point that bothered me: This whole transformation has been about optics. This family is trying to pretend that Elena is Nikos' loving wife. They believe Toska has eyes everywhere. The cover story is that Elena is in a car accident. So from an optics standpoint, why is Nikos nowhere in the picture? Why isn't he visiting his wife, meeting the Doctors, etc? Why is the Doctor being allowed to openly talk about the fact that he believes Elena is a transwoman, when that should be a MASSIVE loose end to this entire insane cover story?

Like, pretend you're the family for a second. You believe a mob boss is after you to the extent he's sent Roan to tail Marina! So what happens when Roan follows Marina to the hospital and asks the staff or the Doctor about Elena? If the Doctor hasn't been paid off, then how did they convince him to and everyone else at the hospital to maintain a cover story that there was a car accident?

The whole car crash cover-up story is weird. If the lives of Nikos and his family depend on it, you'd think the doctor would either have to be in his pocket or otherwise be taken care of not to talk. Maybe he is and the Marina story he's spinning to Elena is nonsense. But if it isn't, how is he able and allowed to say all this?
I get doctor-patient confidentiality, but does that work against the mafia? I'm with you, the doctor is weird. I assume that's an oversight on Melissa's part in order for her to make some things clear about the story. That's why I said earlier I think Melissa is talking to us via doctor Gianokos. She clears things up about the reversibility and state of some of Elenas surgeries to move the plot forward a bit, for us to not boggle down on some technicalities. She's used the doctor for that before as well.

 

[Thalantyr]

The doctor consult we see is their second appointment (p. 452). We don't know when the first one was. There was a week between Marina returning and that appointment, so there's the possibility she wasn't around her family when the first appointment happened.

This dialogue seems to imply that Andrew hasn't been to the clinic yet, and obviously Marina has already returned from Crete since he's discussing it with her:


So my assumption is that the two consultations occurred within a few days of each other after Marina had already returned from Crete.

Furthermore, at the time of the first consultation, the plan was still to only perform a minor cosmetic surgery on Elena's face, as originally suggested by Eva and Sofia. Nothing else was discussed until the second consultation, as seen here:


So if the doctor is telling the truth about informing Marina of an impending vaginoplasty, it would not have been until at least after the second consultation, and I'm guessing couldn't have occurred until the beginning of week 3 in the hospital.

I think Melissa is talking to us via doctor Gianokos. She clears things up about the reversibility and state of some of Elenas surgeries to move the plot forward a bit, for us to not boggle down on some technicalities. She's used the doctor for that before as well.

I get this impression as well, which is why I take the technobabble at face value. But that doesn't mean the doctor couldn't be misleading us about other non-technical plot points.

 

[rebirth095]

I suppose that if the doctor is not innocent, who would be paying him off? And that depends on who is behind the feminization plot. If it is Marina acting alone, then she doesn't have the means/muscle/influence to pay off the doctor, which would mean no one is paying him off, aside from the normal fees he receives for doing his job at the clinic.

This is another reason why Nikos/Sisters being uninvolved makes no sense to me: Marina/Andrew are broke, so it's not them paying for these surgeries. So it has to be Nikos/Sisters. Now that doesn't mean they're necessarily pulling the strings, but it's clear that their resources are being used. For them to be so involved but then also clueless is weird.

It's entirely possible the Nikos visited multiple times during that period and we just didn't witness it.

Maybe. But a lot of the dialogue feels really weird regarding that 4 week stretch. I just get the impression that no one has visited and talked to each other. Contrast that with Joel where he's recovering, people are visiting him, and people immediate notice the changes and recognize how extreme the surgeries were. For Elena, apparently she's dropped off, wakes up to only be greeted by the Doctor who then just up and decides to go even further. And only once fully recovered is Elena visited.

I guess I can kind of see a scenario where Marina's the villain, she told Nikos that Andrew has fallen for Nikos and is transitioning for him, and that's supposed to be why Nikos is so into Elena after the surgery. So if Nikos did visit during the 4 week period and noticed how extensive the surgeries were and confronted Marina like any normal person would (like how Andrew immediately asked the sisters about what happened to Joel), then I guess there's a way for this to "make sense".

Of course, that immediately falls apart because Nikos has been creepy even before the hospital stay, not to mention no reasonable man would think "oh yes, my niece's husband has fallen in love with me and wants to transition and age progress to be with me after meeting me for the first time two weeks ago".

So the 4 week gap gets weirder and weirder for me.

That's why I said earlier I think Melissa is talking to us via doctor Gianokos. She clears things up about the reversibility and state of some of Elenas surgeries to move the plot forward a bit, for us to not boggle down on some technicalities. She's used the doctor for that before as well.

I get this impression as well, which is why I take the technobabble at face value. But that doesn't mean the doctor couldn't be misleading us about other non-technical plot points.

I can totally see this perspective, as it's been employed before. Here's my issue about this clarification. Frankly, is the reversibility something that needs clarification? Rather, imo, the only reason reversibility needed clarification is because Melissa wrote dialogue in just the previous part that had the sisters claim it was still reversible. And the only reason I can think to do this is to create a plot point that Elena needs to accept that even if she wanted to she physically can't go back.

The other reason for this clarification is because for some reason the flash backs has the doctor explicitly state that he didn't perform a vaginoplasty. This is already really weird because it's not like this flash back was super early in the story and needed retconning.

Look at the sequence of events from reader's perspective:



This wasn't like it was the first 100 pages early days. The story was well under way. So we start with Elena basically already thinking she's undergone vaginoplasty. Then we get a clarification that apparently it wasn't. Only to change it and say it was. And I want to point out, this means that all the while when she was conscious before the amnesia, she didn't notice something was off or was curious? Like, after the amnesia she immediately checks to see where her cock is. Granted, that's partially because she forgot about the surgeries. But you'd think after recovering from surgeries you'd be equally curious. So at no point before being discharged, Elena used the restroom and found it weird that the vagina wasn't the prosthetic she thought it should be?

Makes me wonder, is it possible Andrew did conscientiously sign off on the vaginoplasty and there's more amnesia we still haven't filled in. At least for me, prior to this point, I felt like the story was signaling that the only amnesia left was what happened the night of the discharge and what caused the memory loss in the first place (that we were filling in the blanks sequentially). But I'm now also wondering if there's still blanks and we aren't be sequential in filling them.

So I guess there's a way forward for a pseudo innocent Doctor, but imo it's a bit of an ass pull. Maybe page 752 is one of those scenes that with the benefit of hindsight could have been taken out and streamlined the plot without hurting the plot (and removing the need for clarifications).

Regardless, if we take the Doctor's words as gospel (from his point of view), that really nails down two things to me:

1) Andrew signed off on the second set of surgeries. Thus we have another amensia sequence that's further back that we've skipped over.

2) The Doctor called Marina and spoke to someone over the phone about this set of surgeries. Note, he's not getting permission from Marina. Specifically, he's informing Marina.

Maybe that's the silver bullet to explain some of the questions we've had about this part:

- What if Marina was traveling (investigating?) during the 4 week stretch. 2 weeks in she gets a call informing her that the surgeries are changing. She's like "WTF are you talking about? This was supposed to be some light cosmetic work." Doctor says "Oh, Elena totally wants these. Already signed all the papers. It'll be great!"

- Marina rushes back, getting to the hospital after Elena's recovered and we get the flashback scene. Marina's not lying when she says she doesn't understand the extent of the surgeries. She just knows that a LOT has been done to Elena. Elena claims she was drugged, so from Marina's point of view, this would include the change in surgeries.

- We get the flash back scenes where Elena directs the plan to keep up appearances.

- Marina at some point does look into more details of the surgeries. Thus we get the inner thoughts where she's taunting Elena/Andrew during her sex scene.

I don't know. There's generally a lot of weirdness going on. Many characters seem to silmultaneously know too much, while also being out of the loop on other things they should know. Taken at face value, the implication would be that everyone is in on the conspiracy. But the various clarification scenes seem to be to downplay that idea, and consistantly try to spin it as "no, this person is an innocent bystander".

 

[Stevedore100]

This is another reason why Nikos/Sisters being uninvolved makes no sense to me: Marina/Andrew are broke, so it's not them paying for these surgeries. So it has to be Nikos/Sisters. Now that doesn't mean they're necessarily pulling the strings, but it's clear that their resources are being used. For them to be so involved but then also clueless is weird.



Maybe. But a lot of the dialogue feels really weird regarding that 4 week stretch. I just get the impression that no one has visited and talked to each other. Contrast that with Joel where he's recovering, people are visiting him, and people immediate notice the changes and recognize how extreme the surgeries were. For Elena, apparently she's dropped off, wakes up to only be greeted by the Doctor who then just up and decides to go even further. And only once fully recovered is Elena visited.

I guess I can kind of see a scenario where Marina's the villain, she told Nikos that Andrew has fallen for Nikos and is transitioning for him, and that's supposed to be why Nikos is so into Elena after the surgery. So if Nikos did visit during the 4 week period and noticed how extensive the surgeries were and confronted Marina like any normal person would (like how Andrew immediately asked the sisters about what happened to Joel), then I guess there's a way for this to "make sense".

Of course, that immediately falls apart because Nikos has been creepy even before the hospital stay, not to mention no reasonable man would think "oh yes, my niece's husband has fallen in love with me and wants to transition and age progress to be with me after meeting me for the first time two weeks ago".

So the 4 week gap gets weirder and weirder for me.





I can totally see this perspective, as it's been employed before. Here's my issue about this clarification. Frankly, is the reversibility something that needs clarification? Rather, imo, the only reason reversibility needed clarification is because Melissa wrote dialogue in just the previous part that had the sisters claim it was still reversible. And the only reason I can think to do this is to create a plot point that Elena needs to accept that even if she wanted to she physically can't go back.

The other reason for this clarification is because for some reason the flash backs has the doctor explicitly state that he didn't perform a vaginoplasty. This is already really weird because it's not like this flash back was super early in the story and needed retconning.

Look at the sequence of events from reader's perspective:

View attachment 4141535 View attachment 4141542 View attachment 4141546 View attachment 4141559 View attachment 4141561

This wasn't like it was the first 100 pages early days. The story was well under way. So we start with Elena basically already thinking she's undergone vaginoplasty. Then we get a clarification that apparently it wasn't. Only to change it and say it was. And I want to point out, this means that all the while when she was conscious before the amnesia, she didn't notice something was off or was curious? Like, after the amnesia she immediately checks to see where her cock is. Granted, that's partially because she forgot about the surgeries. But you'd think after recovering from surgeries you'd be equally curious. So at no point before being discharged, Elena used the restroom and found it weird that the vagina wasn't the prosthetic she thought it should be?

Makes me wonder, is it possible Andrew did conscientiously sign off on the vaginoplasty and there's more amnesia we still haven't filled in. At least for me, prior to this point, I felt like the story was signaling that the only amnesia left was what happened the night of the discharge and what caused the memory loss in the first place (that we were filling in the blanks sequentially). But I'm now also wondering if there's still blanks and we aren't be sequential in filling them.

So I guess there's a way forward for a pseudo innocent Doctor, but imo it's a bit of an ass pull. Maybe page 752 is one of those scenes that with the benefit of hindsight could have been taken out and streamlined the plot without hurting the plot (and removing the need for clarifications).

Regardless, if we take the Doctor's words as gospel (from his point of view), that really nails down two things to me:

1) Andrew signed off on the second set of surgeries. Thus we have another amensia sequence that's further back that we've skipped over.

2) The Doctor called Marina and spoke to someone over the phone about this set of surgeries. Note, he's not getting permission from Marina. Specifically, he's informing Marina.

Maybe that's the silver bullet to explain some of the questions we've had about this part:

- What if Marina was traveling (investigating?) during the 4 week stretch. 2 weeks in she gets a call informing her that the surgeries are changing. She's like "WTF are you talking about? This was supposed to be some light cosmetic work." Doctor says "Oh, Elena totally wants these. Already signed all the papers. It'll be great!"

- Marina rushes back, getting to the hospital after Elena's recovered and we get the flashback scene. Marina's not lying when she says she doesn't understand the extent of the surgeries. She just knows that a LOT has been done to Elena. Elena claims she was drugged, so from Marina's point of view, this would include the change in surgeries.

- We get the flash back scenes where Elena directs the plan to keep up appearances.

- Marina at some point does look into more details of the surgeries. Thus we get the inner thoughts where she's taunting Elena/Andrew during her sex scene.

I don't know. There's generally a lot of weirdness going on. Many characters seem to silmultaneously know too much, while also being out of the loop on other things they should know. Taken at face value, the implication would be that everyone is in on the conspiracy. But the various clarification scenes seem to be to downplay that idea, and consistantly try to spin it as "no, this person is an innocent bystander".

One possibility is that there are multiple schemes going in here - like the sisters are still under the impression that the surgeries are reversible and that the original plan is still intact, while someone else is responsible for the more invasive be stuff. Marina has been,Cascade as we have sen, the one who is around when those procedures were done/discussed. OTOH, that makes them oddly blase about their dad shacking up with their cousins husband who they think is just masquerading as their mom.

 

[misseva88]

This dialogue seems to imply that Andrew hasn't been to the clinic yet, and obviously Marina has already returned from Crete since he's discussing it with her:
View attachment 4141361 View attachment 4141362

So my assumption is that the two consultations occurred within a few days of each other after Marina had already returned from Crete.

Furthermore, at the time of the first consultation, the plan was still to only perform a minor cosmetic surgery on Elena's face, as originally suggested by Eva and Sofia. Nothing else was discussed until the second consultation, as seen here:
View attachment 4141377 View attachment 4141378 View attachment 4141381

So if the doctor is telling the truth about informing Marina of an impending vaginoplasty, it would not have been until at least after the second consultation, and I'm guessing couldn't have occurred until the beginning of week 3 in the hospital.

The reason I brought up the timing of the first consultation was questioning who Marina was around that could have potentially taken that phone call and the doctor mistook for her. If we can rule out she was at Crete, the twins are very much an option if we assume Marina did not take that call. And I think it's well documented by her reactions that Marina may very well not be in the know about the extent of Andrews surgeries in the timetable doctor Gianokos says she should be informed on them.

It's fair to say that the doctor wouldn't confuse a man's voice with that of Marina, so that would exclude someone like Nikos keeping such information from her for his scheming. I really only see three women who could do that and that's the twins and Marina. Up to this revelation in the very last page Marina has shown no hint of such betrayal - in fact, quite the opposite. She feels betrayed. So I refuse to believe she was well aware of these surgeries at that moment in time. That leaves either of the twins, I don't really see an other option right now.

I can totally see this perspective, as it's been employed before. Here's my issue about this clarification. Frankly, is the reversibility something that needs clarification? Rather, imo, the only reason reversibility needed clarification is because Melissa wrote dialogue in just the previous part that had the sisters claim it was still reversible. And the only reason I can think to do this is to create a plot point that Elena needs to accept that even if she wanted to she physically can't go back.

As you're rightly pointing out, it shows the sisters lied to Elena. It makes them liars. What reason would they have to lie to her if they're not more involved in this transformation pushed upon her?

In writing there's an interesting distinction between character-driven-plots and plot-driven-characters. I think Melissa veers between the two of them in this story, but since she already knows how any chapters she wants her story to be and for that she must know how the broad strokes of how she wants the story to go, she faces situations where she needs an author-insert to steer the character straight. The plot has to push the ship right for the further character development to happen.
Melissa wants a happy ending (of sorts) and for that to happen Elena needs to embrace her femininity. We've now seen her be to too bothered about the finality of her life in femininity. She's embraced it sexually before, but stone cold sober and without passion looming around the corner she's also perfectly fine with life as Elena. That's key for any ending to be seen as a happy one, as we now know Elena truly enjoys life as a woman and isn't too bothered it can't be reversed.

 

[rebirth095]

As you're rightly pointing out, it shows the sisters lied to Elena. It makes them liars. What reason would they have to lie to her if they're not more involved in this transformation pushed upon her?

That's presuming that they're lying on purpose as opposed to lying because they don't know any better.

Here's the thing: as we quickly find out, it is super easy for Elena to find out if they're lying: She just needs to talk to the Doctor. And the Doctor is all too happy to be up front in that none of this is irreversible. If the sisters are trying to hide the reversibility from Elena, they're doing a horrible job of it.

Just from that, I have to assume that this is meant to show us that the sisters are sorta innocent. Apparently they're just as duped into thinking that all this is meant to be temporary. Which seems wild to me, but them trying to trick Andrew still that this is somehow temporary seems nuts to me.

Really, at this point, we know there's 3 people that know for sure the extent of Andrew's transformation:

1) Marina, based on her inner thought bubbles.
2) Nikos, because he's fucked Elena.
3) The Doctor, because he did the operation.

If we take it at face value that the sisters are apparently under the delusion that this is all temporary still, then I am super stumped how either Nikos or Marina (if one or both are the "guilty party") are gonna break it to them that this is permanent.

Alternatively, one out is that one of the two sisters is lying, and the other honestly thinks its still reversible, but the lying sister has to pretend she's just as ignorant to keep up the facade, even though she realizes how much of a bad idea bringing this up AT THE HOSPITAL WHERE THE DOCTOR IS would be. Or she's lying because she knows Andrew will find out the truth soon anyway, and pretending to be ignorant makes her seem innocent.

Generally speaking, I think the fundamental "problem" is that this story does not have the luxury of being edited after the fact. A scene that was written might have accidentally portrayed a character or an event in a way that is unintended. And there's no way of going back and editing that and removing that scene from people's brains. We have these exposition dumps to try to "right" that ship. We had a really clear one in K-pop. Maybe Melissa realized it herself, or read people's comments, but people noted how weird it is that the other girls weren't confused at all by Nick's feminization and race change. Their lack of reaction implied all sorts of possible plot points, like them also being accomplices to the feminization, or even hinting that this is something they'd done before. So we ended up with an entire set of dialogue explicitly calling this out and the characters flat out stating how they feel about it. I'd be willing to bet that if there was the luxury of going through and rewriting the story from scratch, I think Melissa would have instead had those earlier scenes have more characterization from the side characters, showing their discomfort or fascination so that it isn't something that required such a heavy handed info dump.

This of course makes analyzing very hard. Because we're trying to stitch together a story as someone is yanking the fabric at the same time. This isn't meant to be disparaging Melissa as a writer. It's just a natural consequence of a story that's this long and being distributed this way. So we can only do the best we can by assuming more recent stuff is "more canon", and having a sliding scale when it comes to previous info. Then factor in some patterns we pick up on how Melissa writes from a style standpoint (the "old friend" cliffhanger being a very good recent example), and that's about the best we can do.

 

[Oled65cxpua]

This doctor in this story reminds me of an experience I had with Dr. Min Jun of San Francisco who performed my robotic peritoneal vaginoplasty earlier this year. I’ve talked about the issues I’ve had with Dr. Jun and my Vaginoplasty but what occurred recently caused me even more harm. I asked for a post-op appointment because my quality of life is terrible even 5 months post op. I pee absolutely everywhere (all over my legs, rear, etc regardless of sitting position), my canal is extremely painful especially at the entrance where there is excessive scar tissue making every dilation session hell, and aesthetically its just not correct. Regardless of what had happened I needed a post-op with the original surgeon, I need my life back.

I wanted to talk to Dr. Jun before the appointment to clear the air a bit and for me to feel comfortable opening my legs up in front of a doctor who had verbally abused me in the past. Instead of this happening he barraged me in the meeting by saying he was not comfortable ever operating on me again regardless of revision needs. I was a mess and just broke down crying in front of all 3 people in the room. This lasted for awhile and eventually we got to the point of the exam. I should have left before this, but having three medical professionals standing in front of you telling you to do something while you feel vulnerable is a hard situation.

The next part is one that is causing me a lot of pain. After I got undressed and Dr. Jun, his PA, and a nurse all came back in, instead of performing an exam on me Dr. Jun retreated to the corner of the room. Suddenly his PA was the one between my legs, and Dr. Jun made clear he was not comfortable performing an exam on me.

I would have never showed up to see this doctor who had treated me so badly if I had known this was the case. I was only there due to being in severe pain and not being able to pee outside of my own home. When your quality of life is this bad you can forgive a lot to try to get the care you need.

I felt so ashamed with my legs wide open and my surgeon standing at a distance, unwilling to even examine his own work or take responsibility for these significant complications. I’m ashamed of my body, and looking at my genitals is now a reminder of broken promises and significant trauma.

I’ve said before that Dr. Jun is not the right doctor for anyone. I should have followed my own damn advice but I had imminent issues and setting up care with a new GCS surgeon takes a long time. But instead of receiving care I need, I saw a doctor who played the victim and made me feel ashamed of the genitals he had created. It's just like the doctor in this story. I’m broken over this experience, and it will take a lot of therapy and time to get over what has happened.

 

[LadyBoyJay]

This doctor in this story reminds me of an experience I had with Dr. Min Jun of San Francisco who performed my robotic peritoneal vaginoplasty earlier this year. I’ve talked about the issues I’ve had with Dr. Jun and my Vaginoplasty but what occurred recently caused me even more harm. I asked for a post-op appointment because my quality of life is terrible even 5 months post op. I pee absolutely everywhere (all over my legs, rear, etc regardless of sitting position), my canal is extremely painful especially at the entrance where there is excessive scar tissue making every dilation session hell, and aesthetically its just not correct. Regardless of what had happened I needed a post-op with the original surgeon, I need my life back.

I wanted to talk to Dr. Jun before the appointment to clear the air a bit and for me to feel comfortable opening my legs up in front of a doctor who had verbally abused me in the past. Instead of this happening he barraged me in the meeting by saying he was not comfortable ever operating on me again regardless of revision needs. I was a mess and just broke down crying in front of all 3 people in the room. This lasted for awhile and eventually we got to the point of the exam. I should have left before this, but having three medical professionals standing in front of you telling you to do something while you feel vulnerable is a hard situation.

The next part is one that is causing me a lot of pain. After I got undressed and Dr. Jun, his PA, and a nurse all came back in, instead of performing an exam on me Dr. Jun retreated to the corner of the room. Suddenly his PA was the one between my legs, and Dr. Jun made clear he was not comfortable performing an exam on me.

I would have never showed up to see this doctor who had treated me so badly if I had known this was the case. I was only there due to being in severe pain and not being able to pee outside of my own home. When your quality of life is this bad you can forgive a lot to try to get the care you need.

I felt so ashamed with my legs wide open and my surgeon standing at a distance, unwilling to even examine his own work or take responsibility for these significant complications. I’m ashamed of my body, and looking at my genitals is now a reminder of broken promises and significant trauma.

I’ve said before that Dr. Jun is not the right doctor for anyone. I should have followed my own damn advice but I had imminent issues and setting up care with a new GCS surgeon takes a long time. But instead of receiving care I need, I saw a doctor who played the victim and made me feel ashamed of the genitals he had created. It's just like the doctor in this story. I’m broken over this experience, and it will take a lot of therapy and time to get over what has happened.

That's a sad story. I feel bad for April6055, the person who originally posted it.

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I don't blame you if you wish you were April because she is quite lovely.

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[Oled65cxpua]

That's a sad story. I feel bad for April6055, the person who originally posted it.

You must be registered to see the links

I don't blame you if you wish you were April because she is quite lovely.

You must be registered to see the links

Oh, you found my Reddit account. Good for you, I guess.

 

[LadyBoyJay]

Oh, you found my Reddit account. Good for you, I guess.

Well, that's a claim that can easily be proven with a new post on Reddit, or easily debunked without one. I'm sure that you want to cause some drama again for whatever satisfaction you get out of it, but I'm just not in the mood today. I wish you would just focus your energy and talent on being our friend instead of treating us like enemies, fools, and infidels. You are smart and you are talented. I really like some of the cover art that you've made. I would love to constantly be giving you likes and head pats for doing good things rather than being disappointed whenever I see you trying to stir up drama here, or on e-Hentai, or more recently on APC. Most of us are on those websites just under different screen names. That's why you can't really hide anything as well as you think you can. Our community, which you are a part of whether you realize it or not, is very friendly and forgiving. Just be nice and we can move forward.

Just to end this here and not do anymore back-and-forth arguing.

April proudly identifies as LGBTQ+, you do not.

April is from America. You are from Kazakhstan.

You are Jehaknaboom.


I'm not giving you a reality check to hurt you. I'm actually trying to help you. We are all here to escape from our real life drama and/or pain. If you think that you are the only unhappy person here, you are mistaken. Many of us can sympathize with you if you are in a situation where you can't be who you want to be because of where you live and/or what religion you belong to. For most of us, life has given us lemons, so we are trying our best to make some sweet lemonade out of them. FYI, it doesn't matter if you are a pitcher or a catcher, if you are here reading comics about men turning into women, you are part of our team.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Oled65cxpua]

I wish you would just focus your energy and talent on being our friend instead of treating us like enemies, fools, and infidels. You are smart and you are talented. I really like some of the cover art that you've made.

Sure, I can agree on this! Let's be friends. And thanks for the very nice compliment!

 

[Alicia Mae]

If that's really the intended window for Elena to have a second surgery... That just seems insanely convoluted. Like, what's the payoff here? For the characters and for the reader? Like... were we supposed to be on the edge of our seats this whole time wondering if Elena had a "real" vagina? Like... I dunno... It just feels like a very underwhelming reveal which requires a overly complicated series of events to have been set up.



Yes, I think the timing matters here because it greatly affects whether Marina is lying when we get this scene:

View attachment 4140045

If the Doctor actually called Marina after the "first" set of surgeries to inform her that they're moving forward with this advanced vaginoplasty, then her reaction here is her completely lying then.

Conversely, if she wasn't called and found out later (for example, now that she has the time, maybe she actually searches up what each procedure is), then her reaction is genuine. Or, maybe Elena explores her body and the shock of having the vagina not being a prosthetic causes the memory loss?



Great example! 100%! And that's inner thoughts, so it's not like we've got an unreliable narrator here.



I know you're just theory crafting, but while those are possible, I can't help but feel like this is stretching the suspension of disbelief so hard just to justify that the Doctor was sortof "innocent".

And it goes back to the "why". Like let's say the Doctor is unethical but wasn't paid off. I can't fathom what that possible helps in the story. Let's say that Marina was behind this all along (discounting the mountain of evidence that points to that not making sense), since she has quite a few opportunities here to help make the "Doctor is innocent" happen. She's the family contact. She's the one with Elena and leaves her to a bunch of procedures.

Why is making the Doctor innocent helpful to this story? Like, outside of having a "It was me, Barry" style Zoom-Posting for Marina, why should anyone care that the Doctor is innocent? So what if he was paid off. Having him be paid off makes him unethical. Having him not be paid off but have done all these surgeries means he's still unethical and also an idiot. One that also roped in some random colleague that got the bright idea of "while we have Elena here, wanna try some experimental surgeries on her?"

Where's the payoff?



Just as a reminder, Marina was in Crete before going to the consultation with the Doctor. Thalantyr's timeline marks Marina having returned from Crete on D+12, while the consultation is on D+19, 1 week later.



Fair, but I guess I wasn't clear in the second point that bothered me: This whole transformation has been about optics. This family is trying to pretend that Elena is Nikos' loving wife. They believe Toska has eyes everywhere. The cover story is that Elena is in a car accident. So from an optics standpoint, why is Nikos nowhere in the picture? Why isn't he visiting his wife, meeting the Doctors, etc? Why is the Doctor being allowed to openly talk about the fact that he believes Elena is a transwoman, when that should be a MASSIVE loose end to this entire insane cover story?

Like, pretend you're the family for a second. You believe a mob boss is after you to the extent he's sent Roan to tail Marina! So what happens when Roan follows Marina to the hospital and asks the staff or the Doctor about Elena? If the Doctor hasn't been paid off, then how did they convince him to and everyone else at the hospital to maintain a cover story that there was a car accident?



Honesty, I think that either way, this raises the chances Marina is in the fuzzy photo. Even if she's not been behind Andrew's feminization. This is entirely for meta reasons, but I think that we'll find out Marina is talking to Seferi about feminizing Joel, and that'll be meant to make Marina look that much more guilty just to set up another twist where this was a misunderstanding and Marina was working with Seferi, but wasn't working against Andrew.



Here's the problem I have with that: we don't get her just retelling, we have those scenes played out for us. If she was just using text boxes to explain to Andrew, then I would 100% agree that she could be lying. But having the scene play out explicitly for us is telegraphing that these "god view" scenes are factual. As a reader, you should be able to expect that the author won't be breaking those storytelling tenants. Because if what we're shown "on screen" isn't actually factual, then we can just as easily call into question the accuracy of any flashback or dream sequence. At that point, an equally valid way to interpret is to say:

"Andrew doesn't really understand the medical lingo anyway, so that first dream sequence where Elena remembers waking up after surgeries are just misremembered due to her being an unreliable narrator."

This is not to say unreliable narrators aren't possible. They absolutely are. But even/especially in those stories, they adhere to structural narrative rules in order for there to be consistency in how information is presented to the reader. Going back to A Song of Ice and Fire, every chapter is written in third person, so you might be tempted to think that this is a "God POV" and completely factual. But one thing that's telegraphed is that each chapter starts with a massive label showing that the chapter is biased to the character in question. Therefore, "facts" presented in the chapter by the character are subject to being an "unreliable narrator".



Wait, how did she know for weeks that none of this was reversible? Or rather, what timeframe are you referring to? If you believe the Doctor, then sure she knew and didn't tell Andrew. But you have to believe the Doctor who is already super shady. Or do you mean the weeks after the dinner party after the memory loss? Well, we find out Marina has been unable to contact Elena and she's literally calling the Sofia because she's concerned Elena isn't responding to the code phrase.

A really simple explanation is:

Marina doesn't know fully what was done to Andrew. The Doctor is lying and might not have even called anyone.

Andrew accidentally (due to memory loss) ghosts Marina and then goes off on a honeymoon with Nikos.

Marina is feeling gaslit and starts doing some investigating of her own. This leads her to learning that Elena signed off on the advanced procedures that she hadn't been aware of.

Continuing the misunderstanding and resentment, she has convinced herself that Andrew is just being selfish and fucking with her (while fucking Nikos). After all, he's the one that prolonged the commitment to stay as Elena, fed her the story about the family being in danger, and kept trying to have her play along even when it didn't make sense. So out of spite (for some reason) she fucks the inspector.



Sure, or there's a part of her that feels guilty for cheating on Andrew? Or the simplest one is just to play into male fantasies.

Really, I think the biggest thing is trying to answer, does Marina have means, motive, and opportunity?

She kind of has motive. But not really. Like she wants to punish Andrew... how does transforming him to her rich Uncle's trophy wife do that?

Does she have means? Andrew lost a ton of their money, so she isn't exactly bursting with resources. And there's no indication that she was super familiar with sleezy Doctors before coming to Greece, and she doesn't have many connections there anyway. So... not exactly any means.

What about opportunity? At best, maybe she knew Nikos loves telling the cross-dressing story. But how would she know/set-up Toska visiting to have an incentive for Nikos to get the idea and pitch to Andrew to disguise himself as Elena.

So at best, Nikos has to be on board with this plan to have any real chance at success right? But if that were the case, then you have the previous problem of you can't turn your husband into your uncle's trophy wife and then get mad that he decides to fuck her.

Seriously: why the hell would you give your husband vaginoplasty and then not expect him to use it? That just doesn't make any sense.



No, she's pissed off much earlier than that:

View attachment 4140157 View attachment 4140159 View attachment 4140161

Pissed off enough that she apparently decides to "get even" by sleeping with another man.

View attachment 4140162

And ultimately, I'm gonna go back to the thought that keeps nagging at my mind: What's the satisfying ending here? We've started ramping up evidence that Andrew's kind of a selfish prick. So... does he "deserve" to be a milf trophy wife to a loving husband?

That said, Andrew is selfish, but also not the worst human being imaginable. So would it be considered really messed up to feminize your husband over losing your savings, and if Marina is "guilty" of feminizing Andrew, does she deserve to have a "happy end"?

This is a weird needle we're threading, and I think Marina being complicit throws way more hurdles in the whole notion of "ending that won't leave a bad taste in people's mouths".

Thank you for debunking so much of what I had posted. I really don’t want Marina to be bad, but feared we were heading that way. I’m back on team “she’s probably not evil” which feels good.

I really hope we see the mastermind revealed soon. Or the revelation that there is no mastermind, and this has just been a series of wacky feminizing mishaps. In a flashback heavy story like this, any character could have the motive, means, or opportunity, and we just haven’t seen it yet. So we probably won’t know everything until the very last chapter.

 

[rebirth095]

Thank you for debunking so much of what I had posted. I really don’t want Marina to be bad, but feared we were heading that way. I’m back on team “she’s probably not evil” which feels good.

I really hope we see the mastermind revealed soon. Or the revelation that there is no mastermind, and this has just been a series of wacky feminizing mishaps. In a flashback heavy story like this, any character could have the motive, means, or opportunity, and we just haven’t seen it yet. So we probably won’t know everything until the very last chapter.

Of course a flashback can fill in some gaps, but ultimately I think that the answer we get also needs to match the information we're given.

I think motive is the one I'd be least bothered by if it was "retconned" in later. If Marina revealed she was actually still ticked off over the lost savings, or if Nikos/Sisters reveal they actually resented Andrew for losing all of Marina's money, there's enough logic there where I can buy that even if there's been times where that doesn't perfectly match the characterization.

Opportunity is the hardest one to me because of one major thing:

Nikos is the one that completely unprompted suggests that Andrew pretend to be Elena.

Almost anything/everything else can be chalked up to a misunderstanding or legitimate belief as to some other plot points (Toska being dangerous, or weird behavior due to being drugged/method acting). But the thing that kicks off the feminization is Nikos suggesting it.

So If Nikos is not in on a plan to feminize Andrew:

How do you explain why he suggested Andrew pretend to be Elena? Considering how unprompted this suggestion was, how the hell could anyone else possibly have divined that Nikos would make this suggestion? Best case scenario, maybe you know Nikos loves his crossdressing story. And you gamble on the idea that since Andrew is an actor, Nikos will think to combine those two elements and have Andrew dress up. But that seems like such an insane leap in logic that you couldn't possibly expect to capitalize on those elements.

this has just been a series of wacky feminizing mishaps.

Honestly, this would kind of frustrate me to the same extent that poorly written "it was all a dream" type endings bother me. I don't mind coincidences, but when entire stories are driven by contrivance, it fundamentally robs the characters out of any agency and reduces them to cardboard cutouts that do whatever the plot needs. That said, I do think there's a possibility that's in place where maybe the reveal is that certain parts of the feminization weren't pre-planned, but as motivations (or opportunities) changed, characters decided to change their stance.

Marina's the easiest theoretical example of this. It's possible she didn't pre-plan to help feminize Andrew. But maybe after feeling betrayed by "Elena", she could have a change of heart and want to "wash her hands" of Andrew/Elena. At that point, her actions might seem like she's working to feminize Elena, but that's only AFTER events in the story have changed how she feels.

With that in mind, and tweaking a previous theory I wrote, I think it's possible that Nikos kickstarted Andrew being disgused as Elena, but things escalated because Joel realized the truth. At different points in time you do have people insisting on feminizing Andrew, but for different and changing reasons based on what they know at the time.

And really, a lot of this boils down to a question of:

"Is feminizing Andrew the end goal, or is there something else that's the goal and somehow feminizing Andrew is the way to get you there?"

 

[Elaine.]

I get the feeling that Andrew actually has fully accepted his new situation now. He never seems to protest and during the sex scenes with Nikos he really got into the session. Then there are his comments that it would simpler to accept that he has always been Elena. The chat with the doctor confirming that the changes made are fixed and cant be reversed again seemed to be accepted without any drama. One of the main scenes to come is the restatement of the wedding vows with Nikos and obviously Marina will see her former husband commit to being Nikos wife.

 

[Stevedore100]

Of course a flashback can fill in some gaps, but ultimately I think that the answer we get also needs to match the information we're given.

I think motive is the one I'd be least bothered by if it was "retconned" in later. If Marina revealed she was actually still ticked off over the lost savings, or if Nikos/Sisters reveal they actually resented Andrew for losing all of Marina's money, there's enough logic there where I can buy that even if there's been times where that doesn't perfectly match the characterization.

Opportunity is the hardest one to me because of one major thing:

Nikos is the one that completely unprompted suggests that Andrew pretend to be Elena.

Almost anything/everything else can be chalked up to a misunderstanding or legitimate belief as to some other plot points (Toska being dangerous, or weird behavior due to being drugged/method acting). But the thing that kicks off the feminization is Nikos suggesting it.

So If Nikos is not in on a plan to feminize Andrew:

How do you explain why he suggested Andrew pretend to be Elena? Considering how unprompted this suggestion was, how the hell could anyone else possibly have divined that Nikos would make this suggestion? Best case scenario, maybe you know Nikos loves his crossdressing story. And you gamble on the idea that since Andrew is an actor, Nikos will think to combine those two elements and have Andrew dress up. But that seems like such an insane leap in logic that you couldn't possibly expect to capitalize on those elements.



Honestly, this would kind of frustrate me to the same extent that poorly written "it was all a dream" type endings bother me. I don't mind coincidences, but when entire stories are driven by contrivance, it fundamentally robs the characters out of any agency and reduces them to cardboard cutouts that do whatever the plot needs. That said, I do think there's a possibility that's in place where maybe the reveal is that certain parts of the feminization weren't pre-planned, but as motivations (or opportunities) changed, characters decided to change their stance.

Marina's the easiest theoretical example of this. It's possible she didn't pre-plan to help feminize Andrew. But maybe after feeling betrayed by "Elena", she could have a change of heart and want to "wash her hands" of Andrew/Elena. At that point, her actions might seem like she's working to feminize Elena, but that's only AFTER events in the story have changed how she feels.

With that in mind, and tweaking a previous theory I wrote, I think it's possible that Nikos kickstarted Andrew being disgused as Elena, but things escalated because Joel realized the truth. At different points in time you do have people insisting on feminizing Andrew, but for different and changing reasons based on what they know at the time.

And really, a lot of this boils down to a question of:

"Is feminizing Andrew the end goal, or is there something else that's the goal and somehow feminizing Andrew is the way to get you there?"

You are right, it is Nikos who out of the blue comes up with a very weird idea that makes no sense if he was really serious about working with Toska. And yet..
Next is the dinner scene. Nikos doesn't really do anything here, other than act a little frisky with Elena, it is Toska ("I'm dropping off Joel here for a few months") and Elena ("what a grand idea") who basically force Andrew to be stuck as Elena. It's Andrew, apparently under the influence, who decides to go "full immersion" and suddenly is talking about how Nikos proposed and being lovey dovey.
As you said previously I think we have to go with there being some, if not a lot, of things that won'taje sense when all is revealed. I've been pretty much on the "Nikos is being unfairly fingered" side, but the lack of the series showing him doing much of anything other than swooning around Elena is a bit damning in itself - there has t been much to show he is the bad guy, but there also hasn't been much to show he isn't and that may be more important.