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Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-10-29] [Melissa N.]

Elaine.

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Dec 5, 2023
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Sort of? But a lot of the language being used is really similar to earlier scenes that we later learned were almost Andrew's "self hypnosis" when "conditioning" himself to stay in character. Stuff like:

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is a repeat of things like:

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and

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These little mantras Elena tells herself about what/who she is and how she should behave.

Plus, given how this behavior (Andrew doubling down on playing the Elena persona) always seems to happen after drinking is involved... This is kind of splitting hairs, but I'm not sure I'd personally read into this part as Andrew actively wanting to be Nikos' wife. Rather, I could see the argument that Andrew has given up (or taken another step forward towards giving up) on trying to "be Andrew", and accepting that being Nikos' wife is part of that identity. Again, a I might be splitting hairs, but it's me trying to make sense of the mental space Andrew is in. To me, it's less that "Andrew" has fallen in love with Nikos, but rather "Andrew" has given up trying to be Andrew, and "Elena"'s identity is that of Nikos' loving wife.
For a long time we have had Andrew saying to Marina that he has to be Marina's Aunt Elena because of the dangerous motives of the Mafia and she wasnt to call him Andrew even in private. Then as Elena he actively sucks on the dick of Nikos without any real reward for doing so other than to be his loving wife. I think you could be right about your last sentence as Elena doesnt talk about reversing the changes any more which as feminised Andrew he did frequently. if a reversal was attempted he would still have a face of an older woman, a mastectomy would be required for the large breasts and he would have to live without his balls.
 

rebirth095

Member
Jul 25, 2021
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875
BTW, I just noticed that the Chapter 21 Part 7 archive is missing Page 1120

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Wishing MelissaN a speedy recovery from "...Earlier today I had a kidney stone attack...". Health and wellbeing comes first.

There have been a number of clues from the last few updates of AM about Seferi, Gjoka and by inference Joanna (Guiseppe?) who MelissaN noted she was very important to the story. Marina also being revealed as more involved from the beginning.
Is Marina the only one to say Elena was in hospital one month?
I'm thinking there actually was a car accident, when Elena left the salon and that Marina now already knows Elena is "all" woman.
Oof, kidney stones SUCK. Hope she can pass them with minimal pain and no additional complications.

I'm not sure I saw any evidence that Marina was involved in turning Andrew into Elena. Let's assume she was an active participant in wanting to change Andrew into Elena. That would require the scenes where she's shocked or upset by Andrew's transformation to be an act.

That's possible... but that would completely contradict some of her other actions.

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There's no reason for her to freak out over Andrew ignoring the safeword if she's "in" on wanting to keep Andrew feminized. You compare that with Nikos and Sofia that are quite clearly happy to have Andrew stay as Elena (for reasons that are still a bit unclear).

But, let me play devil's advocate and argue that the above panel is her freaking out about the safeword not working is because even though she wants to help feminize Andrew, the fact that he's ignored the safeword means something else is mentally wrong (at this point, no one knows about the memory loss nor the method acting problem, outside of Andrew). If we assume she's complicit in wanting to feminize Andrew, she can still be concerned that it's going "too well".

Well, that contradicts her actions at the pool, where she's upset that Elena is sleeping with Nikos. You can't feminize your husband into your Aunt, and then be surprised that she's having sex? And as a reach, let's argue for a second that this confrontation was more acting on Marina's part.

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That's an inner thought bubble, and so we clearly see that Marina is actually upset over Elena sleeping with Nikos.

So whatever your stance on Marina, I don't see the argument that Marina's been in on this plot to feminize Andrew. In fact, we had a whole chapter that was dedicated to flat out spelling out to the reader that apparently there was no conspiracy to keep Andrew feminized, and that (since the surgery) it's been Andrew's plan all along and what he didn't expect was losing his memories.

Now I'll take it at face value that Andrew is correct. I sincerely believe that chapter was trying to "course correct", and was spelling out what the reader should know by that point. However, that explanation doesn't (and I don't think was meant to) explain all the weirdness of how Andrew started down that feminization path in the first place. Like getting the more extreme feminization surgery is kind of played off as a series of coincident accidents, but I'm assuming that's not a satisfying answer to most of us and we're assuming there's been someone setting up Andrew.

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Is basically telling us directly, and it's a bit of a splitting hairs situation, that Andrew staying as Elena is all his own doing, but getting onto that path, by feeling threatened and having this whole mob conspiracy, is someone's doing. The unclear part that we're all speculating on is "was the feminization the end goal the whole time, or is it a (happy?) side effect of the actual goals?" Because it seems pretty unlikely that someone would go through all this trouble just to feminize Andrew, who is just a nobody. Hence all the speculation of "needing to free up Marina to marry someone else", "the family thinks Andrew isn't worthy of Marina", and other things.


It isn't a complete identity death yet, but it is fair to say that Andrew's identity is dying. Which, is odd because identity death stories are considered to be "dark stories", and Melissa has repeatedly said that this story wouldn't have a dark ending. She has even sort of implied that the ending wouldn't be leave a bad taste in our mouths (bittersweet).
This is why I was indirectly wondering out loud what Melissa considers a "happy" ending a few posts back. Because context is pretty key. Take for instance identity death. I'd argue there's two "genres" of "identity death". "Personality Death", where the main character completely has changed the way they behave. And "Memory Death", where the person has no recollection they were ever anyone else. And you can combine the two. And there are stories where either or both of those are treated as a "good" thing.

Like a story of a loser that gets bimbofied but is so much happier being desired, carefree, and in a loving relationship. The "Personality Death" is treated like an upgrade and a happy ending. Or the "Memory Death" stories can also be framed as an "upgrade". Take Melissa's "Dress for Success". The story doesn't seem to be treating the "death" of Vincent as a bad thing.

That's why I've been trying and struggling to figure out how Melissa thinks we should be feeling about these characters. Like, Marina: It's clear even before this chapter, opinions about her were divided. "What she deserves" had wildly different answers and they all stem on how people were reading (and sometimes through no fault of their own miss-reading) the story, alongside personal biases. Just speaking personally, I'm not sure there's a way to have an ending that doesn't leave a "bad taste" in my mouth because the bad taste is already there. There's a handful of scenarios I'd find arousing in a taboo sort of way (in terms of further degradation of Elena and/or Marina), but from a character standpoint, I wouldn't find that fulfilling. There's basically no scenario where Elena marries Nikos that I can see as being good. The relationship is too toxic for that to make sense to me.
 
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MyraTSF

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Dec 22, 2023
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403
There's basically no scenario where Elena marries Nikos that I can see as being good. The relationship is too toxic for that to make sense to me.
Perhaps Nikos is just a bit underdeveloped and any marriage with him would leave the bad taste. Even now he's still too much of an unknown. Few traits came to shine and I mean the good as much as bad ones because people have flaws, which gives them more relatability and character. So far he feels more like an object rather than a subject if that makes sense.
 

rebirth095

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Jul 25, 2021
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875
Perhaps Nikos is just a bit underdeveloped and any marriage with him would leave the bad taste. Even now he's still too much of an unknown. Few traits came to shine and I mean the good as much as bad ones because people have flaws, which gives them more relatability and character. So far he feels more like an object rather than a subject if that makes sense.
Here's the thing though: an underdeveloped character can "develop" characterization through their inaction. Here's what we know about Nikos:

He's the type of person that will "propose" to his niece's husband and then pulls shit like this:

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He's the type of person that decides to let Marina and Andrew fight, rather than offer any kind of solution.

You're telling me that while they're hosting Joel, Nikos couldn't have made the world's easiest excuse, which is that Elena has taken her beloved niece Marina around Greece (or even generally visiting sites in Europe) over the next few months? Or even if he didn't think of it immediately, why is Nikos, who is seeing his niece so upset, just going "well, sucks for you. Time to get your husband femmed up so we can kiss and fuck some more!"?

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When "Elena" is suddenly extremely distressed and asking about "Andrew", he's the kind of man that just "stays in character" and gaslights her?

When any rational person would take this as a hint that something is wrong, and say something like "Oh honey, I'm not sure what you're talking about", and then lean in and whisper "we should find somewhere more private to speak". Like, I take great issue with How Marina didn't do something like that, but at least she immediately tried to use the safe word and then was upset that Andrew wasn't responding.

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Nikos is the type of person that makes out with Andrew and then wraps his arms around her in FRONT of her wife? And then proudly openly says that they're getting married? And then has Marina take part in this farce by toasting the "happy couple"?

All the while with that stupid smile on his face, and never even stopping once to check in on how Marina is holding up?

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Nikos hasn't "done" many actions towards Marina, and hasn't technically treated Elena "poorly". But there's many actions he should have taken but didn't. He never tries to help keep Marina and Andrew together, he never tries to minimize the weirdness of the current events, never tries anything to keep Andrew from becoming more feminized. He never shows even the slightest hesitation. The closest thing he does was way back at the first dinner.

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The best he could come up with to derail this train all the way back then was a shrug. And since then, he has never stopped once when it comes to getting physical with his "wife".

All of that characterizes him as a selfish, manipulative, bastard, and possibly disconnected from reality. This is sadistic behavior. Given his wealth and presumed intelligence behind his success, you're telling me that once Joel showed up, he couldn't have come up with the story: "My wife's been driving me crazy so I sent her away. Bitches, am I right?" Honestly, that would have probably played perfectly into the old man's "conservative, religious zealot" biases; Gotta put women in their place.

He's been on screen enough, been part of events enough, and the story has gone on long enough that his lack of action speaks volumes about the type of person he is.
 

LadyBoyJay

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Jun 12, 2017
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rebirth095
I like the way you laid everything out. (y) It really does paint more of negative picture of Nikos. I've always considered him to be a very underdeveloped character. An "empty suit" has been my nickname for him. :LOL: I was aware of many of his inactions, but I hadn't really combined them all together and made a personality profile like you did. I totally agree with it too! Barring any outside influence of his behavior (no hypnosis, no Aphrodite), I don't think I can see too many ways that his behavior can be defended.

There is still a lot more I want to learn about Nikos. What is his sexuality? Nothing was preventing him from being openly gay or bisexual before the story started. He could have created an Elena years ago, so why not? Why has a rich and handsome man been unable to have found a partner until now? Was he really the playboy that his daughters described him as? Why did he have or develop interest in Andrew? What happened between him and the mother(s) of his daughters? Are they actually his biological daughters? :alien:

So many unanswered questions and it feels like we are running out of time for answers. :unsure: I am worried that one of the only ways that this story can twist itself back towards a "good" ending, will be to undo much of the story. As much as I feel like a "dark" ending doesn't feel right for the story, I wouldn't enjoy some type of "it was all just a dream" type of twist to give it a "good" ending. :ROFLMAO:

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rebirth095

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Jul 25, 2021
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I like the way you laid everything out. (y) It really does paint more of negative picture of Nikos. I've always considered him to be a very underdeveloped character. An "empty suit" has been my nickname for him. :LOL: I was aware of many of his inactions, but I hadn't really combined them all together and made a personality profile like you did. I totally agree with it too! Barring any outside influence of his behavior (no hypnosis, no Aphrodite), I don't think I can see too many ways that his behavior can be defended.
Whenever a character is on screen, you're learning something about that character, even if they're not doing anything. Because if they don't react, then that tells you they are the type of person that doesn't react in that situation. Doubly so if they are presented opportunities to effect the plot, and then opt not to.

For sure, I would never say that Nikos is a "developed" character: As you pointed out, we know very little about him as a person. His motivations are unclear, and he has the charisma of a piece of chalk. I have to assume we will eventually answer some of those questions, as the overall plot does seem to hinge on some of those things. In particular, I don't think the story can properly conclude without addressing " Why did he have or develop interest in Andrew?". That's pretty integral for making the story "make sense".

But the truth of the matter is that there's a number of pressing matters that are left. However the story ends, I think we need to find out:

- What caused Andrew to lose his memories over that stretch of time?
- Who set up Andrew's surgery to include more drastic feminization surgery?
- What's the point of feminizing Andrew?

Everything else, I think will generally fall into place if we understand these three things. The mystery regarding mobsters and all that stuff seemingly doesn't really matter and frankly, I have to assume that the reason we still haven't filled in that missing chunk of time is because those answers directly tie to the ending.
 

Alicia Mae

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Dec 13, 2023
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Yeah, this is laid out very well. Nikos is extremely entitled and self serving. He doesn’t think twice about fucking Elena, or kissing her, or fabricating stories of their deep, decades long romance. He goes after what he wants and always seems to get it.

As early as the intro, Marina characterizes him as a bon vivant- somebody who loves to keep the wine flowing and the party going. But as he relives old stories at dinner, it’s clear he’s not living the thrilling life of a young man. This whole thing starts as a selfish way for him to feel like he was young again. A typical midlife crisis would be buying a sports car. Nikos’ version of that is feminizing his nephew in law and fucking her- all so he can lie to the partner he’s closing a billion dollar business deal with lol.

Since the beginning he seemed to get off on all the “role play” and sneaking around. The taboo nature of the charade, and the massive stakes behind getting found out- Nikos is loving every risky second. I don’t think he’s the antagonist of the story, but he is definitely a bad guy. That said, he can be a bad guy AND still make Elena happy.

A good or bad ending is relative to how much you think the ends justify the means. It’s possible that in the end, Elena is eagerly traipsing down the isle filled with the joy of embracing her womanhood. Maybe she’s openly grateful that Niko has helped her discover her hidden desire to transition- her new pussy dripping with lust for her handsome hunky husband.

It’s a happy ending for Elena if she feels like she’s finally who she wants to be… But the journey there is so dark, and their relationship was so one sided and toxic. So is it still a “good” ending? Or is it dark? Kind of up to the reader in my opinion.
 

rebirth095

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Jul 25, 2021
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A good or bad ending is relative to how much you think the ends justify the means. It’s possible that in the end, Elena is eagerly traipsing down the isle filled with the joy of embracing her womanhood. Maybe she’s openly grateful that Niko has helped her discover her hidden desire to transition- her new pussy dripping with lust for her handsome hunky husband.

It’s a happy ending for Elena if she feels like she’s finally who she wants to be… But the journey there is so dark, and their relationship was so one sided and toxic. So is it still a “good” ending? Or is it dark? Kind of up to the reader in my opinion.
I see your point, but I would argue a couple of nuances:

1) I don't think it matters at all how "happy" Elena is portrayed by the end, because there's been absolutely no evidence through the story that being feminized into Nikos's fucktoy is an improvement over what he had before. And certainly no evidence that Andrew was "in the closet". Repeatedly, the story characterizes it as Andrew having lost control over his actions. I mean, he's not just pretending to speak English poorly, he literally can't and can't turn it off! In the case of this story, it's been clear that a lot of his "Elena" desires are from this method acting "self hypnosis" he's put on himself. "Elena" isn't actually feeling things. The caricature of Elena Andrew has come up with is operating based on what Andrew came up with. Elena behaves a certain way because Elena is "supposed" to behave a certain way.

2) We're basically at a point where "Elena" and "Andrew" are almost two separate people, and Andrew is gradually losing the battle for control over his body to this artificial personality he made up. Mr Hyde might be having a grand old time, but that's not a happy ending for Dr. Jeckyl.

3) "Good" ending is a bit of a vague term, and it's unclear how Melissa is viewing it. Good could mean narratively satisfying, as in the plot makes sense, the characters have an arc that is fulfilled, and the themes are executed well. Good could mean satisfying to the reader by fulfilling the reader's desires. That could be having "justice served" to the bad characters, or in the case of erotic literature, making the ending as hot and sexy as possible. Good ending can also be character specific: it could be them getting what they want, or them getting what they deserve. So when I'm going back to my analysis of Nikos, I maintain that I don't see any way being married to him is a "good" ending. From my own personal preferences, I find Nikos repulsive as a person/character so I can't see how being stuck with him is a good thing. It's not sexy to me, so it fails for me from an erotica standpoint. Andrew doesn't seem like he "deserves" this as a form of punishment, or is such a great person and he's finally getting his "reward", so narratively, it doesn't work for me there either.

I have to compare this to A (not so) temporary roommate. Is that a happy/good ending? Dee has taken to being a woman so well. I mean, just look at her! She has a handsome boyfriend and she enjoys the sex. For me, as a person that fantasizes about feminization scenarios, I'd loved to get feminized and look like that!

But I can't imagine anyone would argue it's a "good ending". The only person that gets what they want is Sara, who is clearly the antagonist of the story. There's no satisfaction for the character being feminized outside of just the general satisfaction of feminiztion material. Otherwise, it's not a reward for a hidden desire, or a punishment for wrong doing. He's feminized in a way that Sara barely gets any direct satisfaction out of it.

That's one of the reasons I'm glad that in Kpop, Minji is taking an active part of the plot. Framing the story so we actually have someone taking charge of the feminization makes it so that at least we have a villain-protagonist getting what they want. It's what drves me a bit crazy about Mirror. We are over 1300 pages into the story and it's still unclear why Andrew's being feminized. And it seems the only person that "wins" in this is Nikos, who is not only a shitty person but also isn't anything close to being a protagonist of this story. So I can't even live vicariously as the "feminizer".

Basically, I've seen no indication that this is a "trans story", where Andrew can end up happy "finally as a woman", but the bittersweet part being stuck in an abusive relationship. All the method acting justifications, the surgeries done without permission, the horror Andrew expresses at every step, only overwhelmed by the conditioning he's imposed on himself... The way things have been playing out, this is closer to a horror story that hasn't realized it's a horror story yet. I think that like most of those stories, the closest thing you can get to a good ending is that the bad guys die, and the "final girl" is alive, but scarred for life.
 

LadyBoyJay

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Jun 12, 2017
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Whenever a character is on screen, you're learning something about that character, even if they're not doing anything. Because if they don't react, then that tells you they are the type of person that doesn't react in that situation. Doubly so if they are presented opportunities to effect the plot, and then opt not to.
Yep! :) I had previously studied the inactions of Marina to learn more about her character. (Marina's inactions) I just never took the time to study Nikos. :LOL:

For sure, I would never say that Nikos is a "developed" character: As you pointed out, we know very little about him as a person. His motivations are unclear, and he has the charisma of a piece of chalk. I have to assume we will eventually answer some of those questions, as the overall plot does seem to hinge on some of those things. In particular, I don't think the story can properly conclude without addressing " Why did he have or develop interest in Andrew?". That's pretty integral for making the story "make sense".https://f95zone.to/threads/melissa-n-collection-2024-06-02-melissa-n.184091/post-13271984
It's a shame about Nikos. I think he could have been written as a great love interest. He could have been the accidental beneficiary of Andrew's misfortune and stepped up as a caring gentleman if Andrew had been betrayed/abandoned earlier in the story by an "evil" Marina. He could also be a hell of a supervillain right now if we knew that he was the mastermind behind all of this and that he had some good motivations for doing this elaborate plan. Right now, he just seems like a very lucky bastard who has had everything fall into place with very little effort of his own.

But the truth of the matter is that there's a number of pressing matters that are left. However the story ends, I think we need to find out:

- What caused Andrew to lose his memories over that stretch of time?
- Who set up Andrew's surgery to include more drastic feminization surgery?
- What's the point of feminizing Andrew?
1. I think the memory loss can be attributed to medical side-effects and to method acting stuff.

2. Joanna/Theodora is the #1 suspect. Why she did it? I have no idea. We don't know who she really is, who she is allied with, or really anything else about her. There are some theories about her identity. The biological mother of the daughters? A fully transitioned Giuseppe? An avatar of Aphrodite? :sneaky: All we know is that she has been in the right place at the right time for very crucial events. Melissa left comments on Patreon about how important that character is but it's been a long time since she felt important.

3. That's the big question. Why was it an "easier" plan to feminize Andrew and pay a fortune to surgically trap him into the wife role, rather than just get a woman, or a male that was more eager to be feminized if that was some kind of kink that Nikos needed? Why were the paths of least resistance avoided and the path that was the least likely to succeed picked out? Feminizing Andrew was such a high risk situation. It could have backfired and financially ruined Nikos or it could have put him in jail if Andrew's personality had been more resistant to Elena's personality. Everything so far has just seemed to fall perfectly into place for Nikos and by the odds, it shouldn't have. Divine luck? :ROFLMAO:

Everything else, I think will generally fall into place if we understand these three things. The mystery regarding mobsters and all that stuff seemingly doesn't really matter and frankly, I have to assume that the reason we still haven't filled in that missing chunk of time is because those answers directly tie to the ending.
The storyline with Mr. Toska has felt out of place since the very beginning. It's been a weird story plot. At times it hasn't even felt connected anymore. I don't know where it is going. Toska, Gjoka, Joel, and Seferi are characters that I just never really think about anymore. I hope that by the end of the story, I can be blown away by some big surprise, but I feel like waiting until the last quarter of the story was a missed opportunity.

A good or bad ending is relative to how much you think the ends justify the means. It’s possible that in the end, Elena is eagerly traipsing down the isle filled with the joy of embracing her womanhood. Maybe she’s openly grateful that Niko has helped her discover her hidden desire to transition- her new pussy dripping with lust for her handsome hunky husband.

It’s a happy ending for Elena if she feels like she’s finally who she wants to be… But the journey there is so dark, and their relationship was so one sided and toxic. So is it still a “good” ending? Or is it dark? Kind of up to the reader in my opinion.
Personally, I would call that a bittersweet ending at best, but it is ambigous. It could be argued as "good" or "dark" depending on perspective. I would tend to agree more with anyone calling that "dark" as opposed to "good". Andrew had a happy life with a happy wife at the start of this story. For me, it is too late in the story to that.

The problem for Melissa is that she flat out said that it wouldn't have a "dark" ending. She has said that multiple times. She probably shouldn't have said that if she wasn't positive about how the story would generally be perceived. Nor if she was planning on having an ending left open for readers to interpret for themselves. Fans who were under the impression that if they stuck through the "dark" parts of the story, they would get rewarded with the "good" ending that they were promised, could feel betrayed. Fans who have enjoyed the "darkness" could feel also betrayed by a non-dark ending that doesn't fit with the current story.
 
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misseva88

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Jul 5, 2017
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So, with the way the sex scenes Elena and Marina have are cut intertwined in this chapter... they do kind of go through parallel arcs. It's like watching Luke walking the path of the Jedi and it being juxtaposed by watching Anakins fall to the dark side in the prequels, as described in the .

There's got to be a reason Melissa cuts between those two sex scenes in this chapter. I very much doubt it's a reveal that Elena is the same person as Marina, so if there isn't a parallel between those two characters, what do you feel could be Melissas reasoning?
 

LadyBoyJay

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Jun 12, 2017
302
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So, with the way the sex scenes Elena and Marina have are cut intertwined in this chapter... they do kind of go through parallel arcs. It's like watching Luke walking the path of the Jedi and it being juxtaposed by watching Anakins fall to the dark side in the prequels, as described in the .

There's got to be a reason Melissa cuts between those two sex scenes in this chapter. I very much doubt it's a reveal that Elena is the same person as Marina, so if there isn't a parallel between those two characters, what do you feel could be Melissas reasoning?
That's a good question! :unsure: The parallel sex scenes could just be a stylistic choice rather than anything metaphorical. If divine magic was involved in the story, I could imagine some interesting possibilities. Without any divine magic from Aphrodite, I don't really see anything deeper going on, other than Melissa maybe wanting to highlight the downfall of Andrew and Marina as a married couple. If Marina was currently having sex with James, that could have been a parallel arc of two relationships progressing and moving towards marriage. It could have added some interesting parallels between a middle-aged couple (Elena + Nikos) and a younger version of themselves (Marina + James). That didn't happen for some unknown reason. Marina being with this old Inspector has me quite puzzled. I was really hoping that both sex scenes were just a bad dream that Andrew/Elena was having, but they have dragged on past the "wake up" point. :ROFLMAO:
 

Stevedore100

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Dec 4, 2023
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535
If Nikos is acting as he is without any outside influence, then he is indeed a extremely horrible, cruel and evil person. Which leads me to think there is something going in here that we don't know. The one thing that seems dangling and may help explain it is this: Patreon post image.png
Andrew Le s Marina handle the sisters but decides to do Nikos himself; given Andrews issues in maintaining his self image, how this went down could be important. Maybe there is a long lost Elena (those girls must have a mother) and Andrew inadvertently revives Noikos' subconscious desire to have her return
 

Alicia Mae

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Dec 13, 2023
55
160
The problem for Melissa is that she flat out said that it wouldn't have a "dark" ending. She has said that multiple times. She probably shouldn't have said that if she wasn't positive about how the story would generally be perceived.

I hadn’t realized she said the ending would NOT be dark- just that she said it was “good”. It’s hard for me to imagine any ending of the story that isn’t at least a little dark. Even if it’s a bit of both.

We're basically at a point where "Elena" and "Andrew" are almost two separate people, and Andrew is gradually losing the battle for control over his body to this artificial personality he made up. Mr Hyde might be having a grand old time, but that's not a happy ending for Dr. Jeckyl.
That’s true. I don’t see a world where we get a happy ending for “Andrew”. Which is why I think the only way we get anything close to a good ending is with Andrew embracing Elena entirely, instead of fighting her and splitting time as “host”. Similarly to Dr. Jekyll, this is self-imposed, while unintended. Mr. Hyde is a side of himself buried deep down that Jekyll is trying to suppress. The serum only brings him to the forefront.

Similarly, Andrew invented the Elena character. Why make her amorous and horny for Nikos? Why make her not speak English well? There’s no reason she couldn’t have been a prude that attended college in London. Or, did Nikos help develop the “character” into somebody who would commit romantically and sexually to him? Who couldn’t communicate with her ex since she no longer speaks the language? Or remembers the code word? Nikos may have selfishly shaped Elena into exactly who he wants her to be.

As stated above, this scene might prove very pivotal in learning why Elena becomes who she is:

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This got me thinking as well:

If Andrew can method act his way into becoming Elena, what if “happy” “straight” Andrew was a character as well? Aphrodite in the subconscious says his relationship with Marina relationship was unhappy, and we know Andrew did something in the past that Marina objected to.

What if “straight, cisgender, happily married” Andrew was a character the whole time? I think it’s possible (given the rest of the story) that we get a big twist like that.
 
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Stevedore100

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Dec 4, 2023
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This got me thinking as well:

If Andrew can method act his way into becoming Elena, what if “happy” “straight” Andrew was a character as well? Aphrodite in the subconscious says his relationship with Marina relationship was unhappy, and we know Andrew did something in the past that Marina objected to.

What if “straight, cisgender, happily married” Andrew was a character the whole time? I think it’s possible (given the rest of the story) that we get a big twist like that.
This is actually really intriguing. We've only seen what appears to be a single day in Andrews old life - when he apparently proposes to Marina. His recollection has always seemed a bit odd to me, very oriented to the mundane things he is doing and virtually nothing about his feelings about Marina. Likewise the scenes are intercut with Elena getting ready, could be read as preparing for two roles and not just one.
 

Stevedore100

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Dec 4, 2023
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If he truly felt forced to marry Marina, it makes sense that he may have method acted his way into being a good husband for her- very similarly to how he transformed to be Nikos’ good wife.
True. And the first few pages of this this story give absolutely zero indication that anything is amiss btwn Andrew and Marina, yet there does seem to be. So he may have done exactly as you say. I dont know if that means Marina is unaware of Andrew being forced into marriage, or they worked something out - there is still that "thing" that happened prior to their coming to Greece as well that needs to be explained.
 

rebirth095

Member
Jul 25, 2021
275
875
The parallel sex scenes could just be a stylistic choice rather than anything metaphorical.
I really think this is the case. For it to be more thematic and narratively fulfilling, I think the crucial missing piece is that Marina doesn't have the same "weight" to the story as Andrew does. This comic has been 95% from Andrew's viewpoint, and the mere handful of times it's been from Marina's solo viewpoint has been as part of a flashback retelling.

Contrast that with other "Mirror Characters". The opening to Hobbs and Shaw is a perfect example:


Our two protagonists are mirrors to one another and we have back to back (or even simultaneous scenes) play out to show that. It furthers our understanding of each of the characters and who they are.

Or the Superman/Batman comic series (perfectly parodied in ShortPacked):

Batman_Superman_City_Swap.jpg 2008-09-22-supermanbatman.png

From a character standpoint, having things play out back to back show us their crucial differences or crucial similarity. From a narrative standpoint, it can show a character's arc playing out and whether that converges or diverges.

But this chapter in Mirror isn't a culmination of respective arcs for both of the characters. If we take this chapter in a vacuum, you could some symbolism. Looking just at this chapter, you could make the argument "This married couple gave into temptation and when given the chance, they chose to cheat on their spouse". And so it could be a powerful moment that solidifies that "it's over" for them. But the problem is that this chapter isn't in a vacuum. Elena has already slept with Nikos, so the two characters aren't really at similar points in their arcs. So the comparison doesn't really work.

Really, we already had a more coherent contrast between the two much earlier on. If we look at arcs: When Andrew was propositioned by Nikos, he (repeatedly) let their encounters become increasingly sexual. We can contrast that to Marina's responses when being propositioned by James. She rejected him. And when he showed up unexpectedly again, she's consistently been trying to keep the relationship from becoming intimate, and only giving ground when absolutely necessary. That's very different from Andrew's arc, where his protests are internal or non-existent.

Nikos may have selfishly shaped Elena into exactly who he wants her to be.

As stated above, this scene might prove very pivotal in learning why Elena becomes who she is:
I actually think Stevedore100 and you are entirely correct here. It seems entirely likely Elena is more of a creation of Nikos than she is of Andrew. Prior to the memory loss, "Elena" doesn't really behave anything like post-surgery Elena.

What if “straight, cisgender, happily married” Andrew was a character the whole time? I think it’s possible (given the rest of the story) that we get a big twist like that.
If he truly felt forced to marry Marina, it makes sense that he may have method acted his way into being a good husband for her- very similarly to how he transformed to be Nikos’ good wife.
I would argue, if that's the twist: it ends up being of no consequence to the rest of the story in terms of actually effecting the plot. We already know that the mechanism for Andrew acting like Elena is "method acting". Andrew also being an act doesn't give us greater insight into how that works because we already knew that's what's happening.

On the other hand, the other question we still have: Why is Andrew being feminized? isn't really effected by Andrew not being "real" either.

For this twist to matter to the plot, it would require the "villain" of the story to have found out Andrew had this "method acting problem", maybe by knowing the "real" Andrew (who would be going by a different name), and realizing "Andrew" doesn't really exist. And therefore realize this would be an excellent opportunity to feminize him because he has this unique problem. But that would require someone knowing Andrew before hand, meeting Andrew again after he hooks up with Marina, and then deciding "You know how I'm going to take advantage of this unique situation? Let's turn Andrew into a Greek milf", and have that benefit them in some way.

I think at this point, introducing a twist like that will require way too much info dumping to be narratively satisfying. Because for that twist to work, we'd have to have a reason why this original personality let the Andrew personality get them feminized.

All that said: I can see the "opposite" being a possible twist. Rather than Andrew also being a performance, if Aphrodite was the third "character". That I could see: where the Aphrodite personality is "maturing" the Elena personality so that the Aphrodite can get the body she wants.

That could be an explanation for why the various blackouts: Aphrodite took over and is developing the Elena personality (which you can think of as either a separate personality, or she's "locking" the Andrew personality with Elena's traits).

BTW, the reason why I don't think "Aphrodite" can be the "original" personality, and Andrew as the acted one, is because if that was true, there's no reason why "Aphrodite" wouldn't have started transitioning already before the creation of the Andrew persona.

I'll also note, despite how some of that could logically work, I do think the mechanisms shown don't corroborate that line of thinking. The story has overall tried not to call it a split personality, even though it's almost easier to describe it as such. So far, there's only been one explicit time we've seen where Andrew has "lost" time, and that's during the timeskip.

Let's recall that the other times that Andrew has "lost control", we can see that with the inner thought bubbles that he's still Andrew. Take for instance:

GREECE432.png

By itself, it can be a AHA! This was when another personality took over! It was hidden in plain sight!

But if we go back and check, this was "Elena's" response at the time to being kissed after being drugged.

GREECE139.png GREECE140.png

That's not another personality that switched into being control. Elena is responding like Andrew. Now Andrew does pass out after this, but "Elena" committed to staying as Elena before passing out:

GREECE129.png

This goes back to the whole "Nikos is a bastard" thing: Andrew didn't quite realized he was effectively committing to this charade for longer when he says this line. Blame it on the drugs, the alcohol, or maybe even just Andrew not being particularly strategic. Frankly, if I was in that situation, I think I'd have said something similar, because if you really read what Elena says here, it doesn't come across to me as "I intend to be around all the time." She's being hospitable. "Hosting Joel" can literally be as minimal as making sure he has a nice hotel room, and access to a driver or something. This is the lowest of commitments.

Just about every problem that has moved Andrew's feminization forward is due to Nikos. Now we don't have a clear motivation yet ("how/why the hell did this plan even get made"), and the "clear things up" chapter seems to be trying to exonerate Nikos, but I genuinely have a hard time buying it. Maybe the clearing up was only meant as an explanation as to why Nikos acted like Andrew never existed when confronted after the timeskip, but that's nowhere sufficient to explain the rest of the weird shit he's doing/not doing.
 

misseva88

Member
Jul 5, 2017
172
519
That's a good question! :unsure: The parallel sex scenes could just be a stylistic choice rather than anything metaphorical. If divine magic was involved in the story, I could imagine some interesting possibilities. Without any divine magic from Aphrodite, I don't really see anything deeper going on, other than Melissa maybe wanting to highlight the downfall of Andrew and Marina as a married couple. If Marina was currently having sex with James, that could have been a parallel arc of two relationships progressing and moving towards marriage. It could have added some interesting parallels between a middle-aged couple (Elena + Nikos) and a younger version of themselves (Marina + James). That didn't happen for some unknown reason. Marina being with this old Inspector has me quite puzzled. I was really hoping that both sex scenes were just a bad dream that Andrew/Elena was having, but they have dragged on past the "wake up" point. :ROFLMAO:
Surely, narratively the stylistic choice would normally highlight a contrast between the two. On one side it would show the happy Elena in her new situation and on the other it would show Marina having fallen off the deep end after her marriage ended.

Like the Hobbs and Shaw example rebirth095 shares, the split screen shows the way both characters are opposites in many ways until they meet. Elena and Marina are both just... doing the same thing. Having sex with and going down on older men. Visually they scenes aren't too dissimilar either.

If Marina was unhappy, dishevelled looking and in a bad spot and having sex with that man to survive, the intercutting between both sex scenes would show how much better off Elena is versus a struggling Marina. She'd potentially struggle financially and emotionally and in such a state lower herself to blow some old man versus Elena living the high life with a man who's captivated with her.

Really, we already had a more coherent contrast between the two much earlier on. If we look at arcs: When Andrew was propositioned by Nikos, he (repeatedly) let their encounters become increasingly sexual. We can contrast that to Marina's responses when being propositioned by James. She rejected him. And when he showed up unexpectedly again, she's consistently been trying to keep the relationship from becoming intimate, and only giving ground when absolutely necessary. That's very different from Andrew's arc, where his protests are internal or non-existent.
I think the scenes would work better if they were separated for a long time and we'd learn their paths would move to a similar direction just before the two would meet again. But then again, their relationship would have to be better established for that to work too. Right now it doesn't work as a starting point to see where their paths will move to next because of all the previous bagage, nor does it work as a midway point. And I don't think it works as a third act scene as they're in too similar a position.
 

Alicia Mae

Newbie
Dec 13, 2023
55
160
The parallel scenes up to this point haven’t highlighted much apart from “Elena is a better cocksucker.” And while thats not very substantive regarding their relationship, it is fun to know lol. Maybe they’ll diverge a bit later on.

Just to clarify my crackpot “straight Andrew is a character” theory lol- I’m not suggesting that Andrew never existed or had a previous identity we haven’t seen. I just think he may have used the tools of a method actor to repress a queer part of himself. To convince himself that he was happy in a marriage he was forced into, and didn’t need whatever deep longing he had. Sort of the actor’s approach to “pray the gay away”.
 
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