Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-10-29] [Melissa N.]

[MyraTSF]

I think the whole "Seferi & Joel dont know Andrew is Elena" gets put into question due to Joel never having needed any glasses and saw "Elena" when she clearly looked very much masculine and much like Andrew still, same for Seferi. IMO they are clearly aware of the whole feminization and showing Elena pics of Gyorka and Andrew himself was probably a way to build up a narrative to reinforce the gaslightning and entrappment.

Perhaps the easiest answer to fish to the whole mystery is "who benefits the most of a feminized Andrew".

 

[Thalantyr]

HAHA! You beat me by a second! We're totally on the same wavelength here. I really think the method acting is just a replacement for hypnosis. It's the method the feminization occurs, but not the lynchpin for the plot.

Haha, indeed. Yours is a lot more fleshed out than mine, but yeah, this is the first time in quite a while that I think we have a theory that makes sense for (almost) every character. Also:

- Joel realizes Elena isn't a woman and wants a payday from Nikos. Or, Joel realizes Elena undergoes a lot of changes very quickly and thus there's something off. Nikos indicates that the only way he'll get that money is if the deal with Toska goes through. Thus, motivating Joel to help Nikos with his new project.

I love this. This also explains why Seferi feels guilty about what's happening to Elena. Yes he wants the money, but what he's helping Nikos do to her is really fucked up.

Now, can you think of any good explanations for how Eva, Sofia, Dimitra, and Stefanos fit into this? Are the girls just as sick as their dad and are happy to help him create a love slave? How does Dimitra's friendship with Joanna/Theodora fit into this, as well as Eva's engagement to Stefanos?

 

[LadyBoyJay]

Roofie Andrew to make him disoriented, forgetful, and compliant. This is a drug that exists in real life so it's totally feasible.

That's why I really think the drugging was just done by Nikos to loosen Andrew up. Basically, roofie Andrew and see what falls out. Maybe Nikos gets laid that night. Frankly, I think Nikos was going to manipulate whatever drunk Elena said into prolonging "Elena time" no matter what she said.

If Joanna roofied Andrew as per instructions from Nikos, that kind of shows that this was really preplanned. So that is back to Nikos being the mastermind. If he was the evil mastermind, it is reasonable to question whether the business deal with Mr. Toska and his associates was even legit. Especially if one of them (Joanna) is doing what Nikos tells her to do. So that points more towards everyone being part of the conspiracy. I also believe that this scenario would really point back to Marina being involved. I don't think Nikos would have planned to do this if Marina hadn't have given him a reason to do so. He should have needed to have felt confident that Marina wouldn't have interfered.

 

[Thalantyr]

If Joanna roofied Andrew as per instructions from Nikos, that kind of shows that this was really preplanned. So that is back to Nikos being the mastermind. If he was the evil mastermind, it is reasonable to question whether the business deal with Mr. Toska and his associates was even legit. Especially if one of them (Joanna) is doing what Nikos tells her to do. So that points more towards everyone being part of the conspiracy. I also believe that this scenario would really point back to Marina being involved. I don't think Nikos would have planned to do this if Marina hadn't have given him a reason to do so. He should have needed to have felt confident that Marina wouldn't have interfered.

It only needs to be pre-planned from the night of Andrew and Marina's first dinner with Nikos and the girls. After discussing Giuseppe and Andrew's acting career, Nikos suddenly realizes an opportunity to indulge a fetish and screw with someone he doesn't respect at the same time. So he calls up Joanna and tells her the plan, which takes place a few days later at the Toska dinner. Now, as for whether or not the Toska deal is real, Nikos does discuss it before the "Umm... interesting!" thought bubble, which seems to be the moment he formulated the feminization plan. So I'd say the Toska deal is real.

 

[LadyBoyJay]

Just a reminder, I'm kind of playing devil's advocate, so I'm in debate mode right now. I'm smiling and not angry, just in case I sound like it.

It only needs to be pre-planned from the night of Andrew and Marina's first dinner with Nikos and the girls.

So, Nikos had the idea in his head before ever meeting Andrew for the first time. So, he either had a crush on his nephew-in-law but not for Andrew's physical appearance, just his personality? Or Marina had painted such a bad picture of Andrew, that Nikos was filled with hate and revenge to do this but not tell Marina about his plans?

Nikos suddenly realizes an opportunity to indulge a fetish and screw with someone he doesn't respect at the same time.

Why turn a person like that into your wife? Especially if you legitimately needed their help to land a real business deal?

So he calls up Joanna and tells her the plan, which takes place a few days later at the Toska dinner.

Why Joanna? If she is connected to Toska and Toska is an unaware legit businessman, why would she be involved? Couldn't Nikos have had one of his loyal people, like Angeliki, roofie Andrew?

 

[Stevedore100]

I think the whole "Seferi & Joel dont know Andrew is Elena" gets put into question due to Joel never having needed any glasses and saw "Elena" when she clearly looked very much masculine and much like Andrew still, same for Seferi. IMO they are clearly aware of the whole feminization and showing Elena pics of Gyorka and Andrew himself was probably a way to build up a narrative to reinforce the gaslightning and entrappment.

Perhaps the easiest answer to fish to the whole mystery is "who benefits the most of a feminized Andrew".

I think the idea that Joel saw through the disguise because he doesn't actually need glasses is very likely.
But why would he know that it's Andrew, who he has never seen or even heard of? Why not just assume it's a random guy pretending to be Niko's wife? I'm not sure what thought process would lead Joel to think "that must be Nikos' nieces new husband!" Somehow, if Seferi and Joel are behind this, they have to have a reason to know Andrew Woods. I don't know what that is, but the Andrews past indiscretion seems key

 

[Thalantyr]

Just a reminder, I'm kind of playing devil's advocate, so I'm in debate mode right now. I'm smiling and not angry, just in case I sound like it.

Ditto!

So, Nikos had the idea in his head before ever meeting Andrew for the first time. So, he either had a crush on his nephew-in-law but not for Andrew's physical appearance, just his personality? Or had Marina painted such a bad picture of Andrew, that Nikos was filled with hate and revenge to do this but not tell Marina about his plans?

Huh? No, that's the opposite of what I said.
According to the theory that rebirth095 and I are noodling with now, this is the moment that Nikos came up with the plan:


That's the first night he met Andrew, and he had plenty of time to strategize with Joanna about how to pull it off at the Toska dinner a few days later.

Why turn a person like that into your wife? Especially if you legitimately needed their help to land a real business deal?

For the lulz, I guess? I mean as far as the business deal is concerned, all he needed for Andrew to do is show up and not give away that he's a man. Without Andrew posing as Elena, the deal was pretty much dead anyway because according to Nikos, Toska only deals with family men. So he didn't really have much to lose.

Why Joanna? If she is connected to Toska and Toska is an unaware legit businessman, why would she be involved? Couldn't Nikos have had one of his loyal people, like Angeliki, roofie Andrew?

The only evidence of Joanna/Theodora being connected to Toska came from Joel and Seferi. Joel told Andrew that Joanna is Gjoka's wife, and Seferi told him that Gjoka works for Toska. Seferi is also the one who told Andrew that Toska is violent and vindictive. But if Seferi and Joel are working with Nikos, these are almost certainly all lies intended to scare Andrew into compliance. Yes, Toska only wants to deal with family men, but he's not going to harm Andrew or Nikos if he finds out that Andrew is a man. In this theory, Toska could just be a minor side character. All he wants to do is build some hotels.

 

[rebirth095]

Man, you guys respond so quick! Hopefully this all isn't too out of date

Now, can you think of any good explanations for how Eva, Sofia, Dimitra, and Stefanos fit into this? Are the girls just as sick as their dad and are happy to help him create a love slave? How does Dimitra's friendship with Joanna/Theodora fit into this, as well as Eva's engagement to Stefanos?

Oof... Those are some tough ones. I think this would require a bit more speculation because while the earlier bullet points work based on what we already know about Nikos, we don't really know much about his relationships with his daughters, or Dimitra.

My gut instinct is the speculation that Nikos is involved in shady businesses as well. Maybe to the level of being a crime family? Maybe not. But regardless, I think he's involved with enough shady shit and his daughters know this.

Dimitra already knows Joanna, which tells me that she/her husband is connected to this shady business as well. Generally speaking, I think Eva and Stefanos are genuinely into each other. I'm gonna guess that them marrying is helpful to the families as part of establishing loyalties. But if not: I'm thinking Eva wants out of the more shady stuff, so maybe marrying out is her way out. She doesn't seem to relish in the feminization the way Sofia does. She might just be the more compliant one, where she does what daddy tells her, and thus, is eager to get out of the family. She might hate Marina (and thus feels no guilt doing this to Andrew), as she's jealous that Marina and her side of the family are "out" of the family business.

Sofia is clearly more into the feminization. I think she's also seeking daddy's approval, but I think she's trying to show that she can take over. She might hate Marina due to viewing Marina as "abandoning" the family business by living in America.

If Joanna roofied Andrew as per instructions from Nikos, that kind of shows that this was really preplanned.

Maybe I wasn't explicit enough: I think Joanna was hired to roofie Andrew literally that morning, or maybe even during the dinner. It could be as easy as:

- Joanna is staying at the hotel. If Joanna and Gjoka aren't just strictly Toska's people, but rather freelancers that often take work from Toska, that's even easier.
- Elena isn't doing too well at the dinner, so Nikos texts Joanna to go to the private restroom and roofie Elena.

I do think Nikos is the "mastermind" but I'm really leaning towards this being an opportunistic thing, rather than something planned months in advance.

So, Nikos had the idea in his head before ever meeting Andrew for the first time.

No, I wouldn't say so. I think he had the idea after pg21:

I really think we've got an opportunist story. Nikos got inspired to see if he could feminize Andrew. This isn't a silver bullet piece of proof, but the inner thought strikes me as Nikos genuinely coming up with this plan at that moment.

Again, no revenge required.

Why turn a person like that into your wife?

For appearances. Having a fucktoy around is great, but people gossip. If wife is a conveniently open slot in your life, and you're reclusive enough that it's believable, having your new feminized sextoy seemlessly fill that role invites fewer questions. Hell, the worst case scenario is people wondering how you convince your wife to "put out".

Why Joanna? If she is connected to Toska and Toska is an unaware legit businessman, why would she be involved? Couldn't Nikos have had one of his loyal people, like Angeliki, roofie Andrew?

That's not really a plot hole though. A person can be really loyal, but if they are moral, you can't trust them to do something immoral. Whereas it's easier to payoff an immoral person to do something immoral. And since Joanna and Gjoka are married... wouldn't be a stretch to assume that they're willing to do some shady stuff.

 

[LadyBoyJay]

I'm just having problems with the concept of this being a series of unlucky coincidences for Andrew.

This new theory is that Nikos only decided to feminize Andrew after the moment that he randomly pitched the idea to Andrew. Pitching the idea wasn't preplanned, correct? He hadn't previously thought about feminizing his niece's husband before, correct? Nikos only started making plans because Andrew said that he would be willing to spend one night crossdressing for him at a business meeting. For some reason Nikos fell in love with Andrew's appearance yet not that exact appearance since Andrew was drastically changed later on. By the time Andrew dressed up for the first time, Nikos had already started making elaborate plans to prolong Andrew's time spent crossdressing as his wife despite how illogical those plans would have seemed without any prior knowledge that Andrew would be uniquely susceptible to being feminized. It also should have seemed illogical that Marina wouldn't cause any problems nor that Andrew disappearing wouldn't cause any concerns with any of his family/friends/co-workers/Consulate/etc. Somehow, it was known that there wouldn't be any issues.

So with this theory, Nikos wouldn't necessarily have cared if Andrew had ever done anything wrong or not. So he really is just a sexual predator/monster? Andrew's problems with Marina are not related to why he got turned into Elena, correct? Nikos did this because it was his fetish and he had the money/people to make it happen. Yet for some reason, he had chosen to never to do this before despite having the money/people to have done it years ago if he so drastically desired having a dude be feminized into being his wife. Nikos could have even found someone willing since Nikos never seemed to get off on the "forced" part (not that we've seen). So Nikos doesn't care about Marina aka the daughter of his sister, nor how this would look for his daughters if it worked out as planned or if it backfired. The daughters were fine with the plan for some unknown reasons. Nikos was really willing to go forward with an illogical plan that should not have worked if not for the sheer luck of Andrew being uniquely suited to embrace forced feminization and eagerly become the wife of his uncle-in-law. So is Nikos not expecting any repercussions from his actions or is he just willing to risk everything he has to get what he desires? Even though he could have found simpler, less risky ways to have gotten what he desired.

 

[MyraTSF]

So with this theory, Nikos wouldn't necessarily have cared if Andrew had ever done anything wrong or not. So he really is just a sexual predator/monster?

Well, technically Nikos is evil no matter which angle you see the whole story. We could take a shot everytime one of the manipulation techniques fits Nikos whole character and behavior

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[Thalantyr]

Well, technically Nikos is evil no matter which angle you see the whole story. We could take a shot everytime one of the manipulation techniques fits Nikos whole character and behavior

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Just playing devil's advocate again, but does anyone remember why we collectively discounted supernatural influence back in the old 8muses thread? Did Melissa specifically says there's nothing supernatural in this comic, or was it just no "magic"? Because if she just said there's no magic, I wonder if she considers that to be different from "supernatural".

But back to Myra's point, the only way I could see Nikos being innocent is if Andrew has been seducing him offscreen, and Nikos truly believes that Andrew wants to be Elena, and Andrew has instructed Nikos to treat him like he's always been Elena. And the only way I see for that to happen is if the Elena personality is completely taking over and suppressing Andrew at various unseen points in the story, or if Aphrodite herself is possessing him and taking over for short stints. Joanna would either be an agent of Aphrodite or Aphrodite herself, pushing Andrew to become a woman because she's the Goddess of Love and she wants to create more love in the world. She knows Andrew and Marina are unhappy together and Nikos is unhappy being alone, so she pushes Andrew and Nikos together, and provides James for Marina.

 

[Thalantyr]

FYI, I have now updated my Aphrodite's Mirror Timeline of Events up to the present, which is chapter 23, part 6. If any detail-oriented people care to check my work, please do so and let me know if I missed anything, if I got anything wrong, or even just typos or if my wording is too confusing to understand.

Oh, and if anyone was wondering, we're now on D+65, roughly 2 months after Andrew and Marina arrived in Greece.

Edit: Also, after finishing updating the timeline, I now realize that these last few pages of Andrew waking up in an apartment right before receiving the call from Marina are the exact same shots that Andrew previously recalled after waking up for the first time post-memory loss on page 486:


He recalls feeling really hungover that day he woke up months ago when Marina got mad at him, and then it shows the exact same shots of him waking up in the same apartment wearing the same boxers as in the last couple pages right before the phone call. So that 100% confirms that we are about to witness the "issue" that occurred "a few months ago".

 

[misseva88]

This new theory is that Nikos only decided to feminize Andrew after the moment that he randomly pitched the idea to Andrew. Pitching the idea wasn't preplanned, correct? He hadn't previously thought about feminizing his niece's husband before, correct? Nikos only started making plans because Andrew said that he would be willing to spend one night crossdressing for him at a business meeting.

See, that's what I'm having trouble with. Giuseppe crossdressing being one of Nikos' most cherished memories to a point his daughters know it inside-out is too much of a Chekhov's gun. Nikos has dated a lot of women since that day and they all led to failed relationships. Now that he's somehow found a person he can mold into a happier ending of that cherished memory I'm not sure that this wasn't planned more. It's all a bit too convenient.

 

[MyraTSF]

Just playing devil's advocate again, but does anyone remember why we collectively discounted supernatural influence back in the old 8muses thread? Did Melissa specifically says there's nothing supernatural in this comic, or was it just no "magic"? Because if she just said there's no magic, I wonder if she considers that to be different from "supernatural".

I'm not sure where it was, but Melissa once answered to the rumors of brainwashing and supernatural stuff and technically discounted them. Trying to find it but its like a needle in a haystack. On another note its fun to read through all the old comments AND ANSWERS from Melissa herself.
Like:


So it seems Dimitra and Stefanos are the only innocent people here.

 

[LadyBoyJay]

Just playing devil's advocate again, but does anyone remember why we collectively discounted supernatural influence back in the old 8muses thread? Did Melissa specifically says there's nothing supernatural in this comic, or was it just no "magic"? Because if she just said there's no magic, I wonder if she considers that to be different from "supernatural".

Back in April of 2023, Melissa left a Patreon reply to a comment left by a user named Steven that said, "No magical transformation! ".




I'll interpret that as the physical transformation was surgical and not magical. I'll argue that the surgeries were magic-like in their unrealistic effectiveness, perfection, and recovery times, but if Melissa is to be trusted, no magic was involved in that part of the story. Now, that doesn't rule out supernatural or magical stuff for the rest of the story, just not the physical transformation that was surgery based. Hypothetically, Nikos could have prayed to the Goddess Aphrodite (via a magical mirror ) to make his kinky fantasies come true and create a lover for him. The Goddess used surgeons instead of her magic, so no "magical transformation", but the rest of the story would have divine/supernatural influence. That doesn't fit well with Andrew's discussion with his "Aphrodite" that he created her. So maybe a scenario where Andrew prayed to become a woman and inadvertently started this chain of feminizing events. That would actually clear Nikos of being the villain. The story would fall into the category of "careful what you wish for".

See, that's what I'm having trouble with. Giuseppe crossdressing being one of Nikos' most cherished memories to a point his daughters know it inside-out is too much of a Chekhov's gun. Nikos has dated a lot of women since that day and they all led to failed relationships. Now that he's somehow found a person he can mold into a happier ending of that cherished memory I'm not sure that this wasn't planned more. It's all a bit too convenient.

Yes! I'm trying to look at the logistics of the story. One scenario is that everything had to have been methodically planned out with full confidence that everything would succeed despite how illogical most of it was. For example, what if "roofied" Andrew had ruined the business meeting (assuming it was legit)? What if "roofied" Andrew didn't agree to everything that the doctor said (assuming he was legit)? Or if the doctor had noticed that Andrew was "roofied"? The call from James to remove Marina and let Joanna interfere, was that just perfect timing and more bad luck for Andrew? If Joanna and James are working together, that points more towards this being a massive conspiracy against Andrew. Every action has worked in favor of feminizing Andrew despite how low the odds should have been if this story is free of any outside influence and if most of the characters outside of the Samaras family were unaware of the truth about what was happening to Andrew/Elena.

Could Aphrodite's Mirror simply be a tale of, "Andrew got turned into Elena because Nikos is kinky and had luck on his side"? Yes, that could be the simple answer but I'm just hoping for something... different.

On another note its fun to read through all the old comments AND ANSWERS from Melissa herself.

It is fun and some of Melissa's answers or non-answers have been very intriguing!

 

[rebirth095]

Giuseppe crossdressing being one of Nikos' most cherished memories to a point his daughters know it inside-out is too much of a Chekhov's gun. Nikos has dated a lot of women since that day and they all led to failed relationships. Now that he's somehow found a person he can mold into a happier ending of that cherished memory I'm not sure that this wasn't planned more. It's all a bit too convenient.

I don't understand why the plan couldn't have been planned and fleshed out after that first dinner. I mean, you have real life examples of serial killers, like John Wayne Glover, who didn't start serial killing until 56 years old with wife and kids. I'll even say you kind of answered your own question here: Nikos has spent years of his life trying to live a hetero-normative life and it's not worked out. He's telling his favorite story again and Andrew acts receptive to the story and when Nikos pushes the boundary by suggesting it to Andrew, Andrew is again receptive. Nikos then starts orchestrating things to push things in the direction he wants.

I dunno. To me, that background doesn't seem too far fetched. It honestly just reminds me of anytime someone is trying to come out or reveal something private about themselves to a friend/family/partner. You test the waters to see how they respond to a similar story (Andrew finds the crossdressing story hilarious), you make a suggestion and see if they'd be receptive to trying it as well. The part that gets extremely immoral is escalating it unprompted (Nikos immediately starts kissing and does a fake proposal to Elena), and then continuing to escalate without permission (all the surgeries and such).

I mean, plenty of planning is still involved. I would just argue, some of the theories regarding when the planning started would require borderline psychic levels of knowledge, where as if we narrow down and reduce how much was preplanned, I think the sequence of events can still work.

I'll interpret that as the physical transformation was surgical and not magical. I'll argue that the surgeries were magic-like in their unrealistic effectiveness, perfection, and recovery times, but if Melissa is to be trusted, no magic was involved in that part of the story. Now, that doesn't rule out supernatural or magical stuff for the rest of the story, just not the physical transformation that was surgery based.

To be honest, I think that's an overly generous interpretation. That would be like having a murder mystery and the readers are theorizing that the person was killed by being pushed out an airplane, and the author was like "no deaths by falling". But then it turns out they were pushed out an airplane and the author says "it wasn't the fall that killed them, it was hitting the ground".

I recall Melissa previous saying she was inspired by Sherlock Holmes, and a common theme in those stories is that stuff seems supernatural and could have only happened via something not of this world, but the reveal is that those things were in fact "real."

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

That said, Melissa has her own interpretations on what these categories mean. She insisted that there's no mind alteration. I'm not sure I consider the "method acting lock" to not be mind alteration (or being drugged/memory loss). But I suppose I can see the distinction, even if I do think that's being slightly manipulative/selective in the definition of mind alteration.

Every action has worked in favor of feminizing Andrew despite how low the odds should have been if this story is free of any outside influence

Look, I'll be (and have been) the first person to be critical of this story when it fails to stand up to scrutiny. As I think I've said before, this story has repeatedly invited speculation, and as such, it requires the details to line up so that the revealed answer is able to satisfy that speculation.

But I have to say, I do find some of these questions to be more of a nitpick. The business meeting already didn't go to plan. That's why Nikos broke Joel's glasses and then later Elena got drugged. If Elena wasn't charming enough or whatever, then we would have just scene an alternate way the events played out. It's not unreasonable to think Nikos was confident enough in his own charisma that he could come up with something to excuse his wife. Which is again, why I think he's clearly the bad guy. He's confident enough that he thinks he can pull off showing off his nephew-in-law as his wife, but when it comes to coming up with an excuse so that Elena isn't expected to be around for the next few weeks, he has nothing?

What if "roofied" Andrew didn't agree to everything that the doctor said (assuming he was legit)? Or if the doctor had noticed that Andrew was "roofied"?

Again, that's why he was roofied. If Andrew didn't agree, or if the doctor noticed something was wrong with Andrew, then you can just roll the dice again with a different doctor. Or pay off the doctor. The plan not working as originally intended wouldn't have caused everything to fail. At worst, it would have been an inconvenience.

The call from James to remove Marina and let Joanna interfere, was that just perfect timing and more bad luck for Andrew?

If Joanna was waiting for an opportunity, then it's not really "luck". An opportunity opened and Joanna took it. It's not like if Marina didn't receive a call, there would have been absolutely no way for Joanna to intervene. Marina could have at any time needed to use the restroom, or worst case scenario, Joanna just waltzes in, strikes up a conversation, and drugs Elena discretely.

Alternatively, we already established that Joanna is married to Gjoka, who was the one tailing and encountered James. James doesn't need to be in on the conspiracy to be manipulated to be useful to it. If Joanna arranged James to arrive that day, and since Nikos owns the hotel, it wouldn't take much to make sure the hotel calls Marina sometime during the visit to the doctor.

I have to admit, I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. I'm not saying I think this theory would make it into a good story, or that I like that direction. I have complaints about the quality and pacing of the writing. I've said before that I think there's some sloppy characterization. At this point, I'm just mainly here to hopefully get some hot renders of Marina and I'm curious about what Melissa has in mind. But outside of my preferences, I've tried to make a good faith argument for what could be happening in the story.

 

[Thalantyr]

Again, that's why he was roofied. If Andrew didn't agree, or if the doctor noticed something was wrong with Andrew, then you can just roll the dice again with a different doctor. Or pay off the doctor. The plan not working as originally intended wouldn't have caused everything to fail. At worst, it would have been an inconvenience.

We also know that what the doctor told Andrew about a reversible vaginal implant was not true. Assuming there was not a second surgery (which doesn't seem to fit into the timeline), that likely means that the doctor is in on the scheme at least to some extent.

If Joanna was waiting for an opportunity, then it's not really "luck". An opportunity opened and Joanna took it. It's not like if Marina didn't receive a call, there would have been absolutely no way for Joanna to intervene. Marina could have at any time needed to use the restroom, or worst case scenario, Joanna just waltzes in, strikes up a conversation, and drugs Elena discretely.

If you recall, both Andrew and Marina were served tea at the doctor's office. Marina leaves before drinking hers, but perhaps the original plan was to roofie both of them, send Andrew in to see the doctor, and keep Marina otherwise occupied until it was too late to stop the surgeries.

 

[rebirth095]

We also know that what the doctor told Andrew about a reversible vaginal implant was not true. Assuming there was not a second surgery (which doesn't seem to fit into the timeline), that likely means that the doctor is in on the scheme at least to some extent.

Right, I didn't really dwell on this before, but with no second surgery, then the doctor was just straight up lying about what was done. That actually helps out Marina's case a bit as when she said she didn't understand the charts and what surgery was done on Andrew, the doctor lying adds credibility to that statement. The charts could just be flat out medical sounding gibberish. Or, the procedure was so new that it would be something Marina couldn't recognize and maybe not even show up in an internet search.

 

[LadyBoyJay]

Nikos then starts orchestrating things to push things in the direction he wants.

I get the opportunism theory. It's plausible from a writing perspective but unsatisfying from a reader perceptive (in my opinion). I just don't like the idea that Nikos

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most of this as things fell perfectly into place for him. He should have not have logically believed his unrealistic desires could come true in this scenario with his niece's husband. The odds were against him and he should have known that, no matter how desperate he was. Even if he was willing to be completely reckless and risk prison or financial ruin, is it really believable that his daughters would have been okay with the risks to both him and themselves? How could he have thought that making Andrew, an American citizen (presumably with family/friends/co-workers), just disappear and get away with it without a single issue. Which as far as we've seen, Andrew's disappearance or death (so to speak), hasn't caused any issues. There should have been more chaos and Nikos should have been doing a lot of juggling to keep what became a very complex/complicated looking scheme from easily falling apart.

The only things that might not be going to plan is that Seferi showed Andrew a photo of himself to possibly save him from "identity death". So Joel and Seferi seem to plotting something to use Andrew/Elena against Nikos for possibly blackmail or extortion. Marina is angry right now but if she goes over to see Andrew/Elena and dumps him, that's just another perfectly executed plan or stroke of good luck for Nikos and that shouldn't have realistically been foreseeable. Nikos seems to have unnatural luck and Andrew seems to unnatural misfortune. The statistical probability of the opportunities presenting themselves at just the right times with just the right unique circumstances to guarantee success is unrealistic. Yes, I understand that this is a fictional story, but if it is set in the real world without any magic/divinity/futuristic technology, then it needs to follow "real world" logic.

I guess for me, it just comes down to

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. I'm more willing to believe in something else other than in sheer luck that defies all odds and logic. I'm not betting against the theory, it's commonly used and easy to write. I'm just not finding it very satisfying for what Aphrodite's Mirror could be. I feel like Aphrodite's Mirror can really be something special. Maybe that is my fault for having too high expectations but if so, I'll take half the blame and put the other half of the blame on Melissa for giving me false hope.

 

[rebirth095]

How could he have thought that making Andrew, an American citizen (presumably with family/friends/co-workers), just disappear and get away with it without a single issue.

I mean, that literally happened in High Heeled Journey with even less plausibility and setup. At least in this one, Andrew is a wannabe actor and thus has much less visibility compared to a doctoral student that would be noticed by a university. By comparison, Andrew going missing would raise way fewer red flags. That's not to say that it excuses sloppy writing, but in my opinion, Mirror was trying to lay out ground work to make it more believable. Andrew is much less noteworthy compared to a doctoral student, and by having the feminization happen out of the country, it lessens the risks compared to something like (not) so Temporary Roommate, where there should be questions as to what happens to the friends that are literally brought up early on.

There should have been more chaos and Nikos should have been doing a lot of juggling to keep what became a very complex/complicated looking scheme from easily falling apart.

I mean, we already know the daughters are on board with this. Eva helps with the initial feminiztion, and Sofia is clearly reveling in it. Seferi and Joel are clearly motivated in gaslighting Elena, and Joanna is certainly involved. Simply put, Andrew (and Marina) are out numbered. It's not as if Nikos is doing everything by himself.

Suspension of disbelief takes different forms and the breaking point is different for different people. I have coworkers that smugly say they refuse to watch any sci-fi because it's "unrealistic". I've got others that will watch something like Expanse for being "realistic", but not other sci-fi for being "unrealistic". Sometimes we're asked to suspend disbelief all at front, while others it's repeatedly asking the audience to suspend disbelief. For example, most fantasy sreies require you to upfront suspend your disbelief that magic exists. But a different story might have you suspend your disbelief in smaller ways throughout the story.

All that is to say, my impression of your criticisms feels more like "Andrew doesn't make sense as a character", which I would generally agree with. Almost everything you've brought up really goes back to that fundamental problem. He doesn't resist and does whatever the plot needs him to do. As a result, it gives the appearance that whoever is the "villain" of the story seems to have omniscience since everything goes according to plan far too easily.

I 100% agree that this does mean that the story is less interesting. This is the inverse problem of a "boring overpowered protagonist", where there's no tension because there's no believable threat to the main character. In this case, there's the impression that no matter what happens, there's no way out for Andrew (and to a lesser extent Marina), so what's the point?

And maybe I'm interpreting your thoughts wrong. But that's the common thread to me. And at least to me, that's why I don't really see the potential that you're alluding to. I jokingly mentioned that maybe the story is just two warring goddesses. It would certainly answer some of the weirdness that happens in the story. But would that really be any more satisfying? There's basically no foreshadowing on that being the case. Andrew would still be a boring character, and would generally remove the (already little) agency of the characters involved.

I mean, one of the biggest arguments both here and on the previous forum was insisting that Andrew must have had gay sex before. That was brought up as the "past issue" and that there must be an explaination why he's finding sex with Nikos so enjoyable. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe we've basically have had it confirmed that Andrew finds it arousing because he believes Elena would find it arousing.



Maybe this is Andrew's "copium", but given how unsubtle: "This isn't something new, I guess. I've read aobut actors who, after certain roles, had trouble knowing who they really were for quite some time." That's practically screaming to the reader "this isn't an unrealistic thing to happen. It's totally possible for someone without hypnosis to get stuck in-character".

Honestly, I feel like this was supposed to be the "big reveal" where the readers found it really clever. Like, for 1000 pages, there's all this speculation about the drugs, seemingly supernatural elements, mysterious mob types in the background, etc. People wondering whether it was mind control, or brainwashing, etc. But the big reveal that it was "method acting" was (I'm guessing) supposed to elicit a "whoa, that's a clever feminization gimmick".

Out of curiosity, I know I've expressed frustrations with this story before. At least for me, I think I would have really liked a more focused story where the method acting was introduced as the premise, rather than the reveal. Would people have been interested in/preferred that story? An actor takes on a female role in a film, and gets lost in it and it starts affecting their normal life?