RPGM Mistress vs Slave [v3.0] [Noxurtica]

3.80 star(s) 12 Votes

Noxurtica

Member
Game Developer
Mar 3, 2019
361
1,320
I'll be keeping an eye on this going forward, there definitely is a lot of potential.

Btw I'm a professional writer and game designer IRL (if not a particularly good one), so IF YOU GUYS WANT I'd be more than willing to provide a few pointers. I know most people don't take well to random internet strangers showing up to lecture them out of nowhere (and rightfully so), so I figured I'd ASK if Noxurtica and his colleagues are interested in such help before, you know, just throwing wall of texts at them and expecting them to do what I say.

I find that keeping things professional and providing constructive criticism is kinda hard on the internet :(
Thanks a lot for your interest! We welcome all criticisms, advice, and feedback. So if you have any pointers, we'd love to read them.
 

dark_dragon7

Member
Dec 12, 2018
393
220
so like pussy licking ass kissing/licking what about pee fetish (optinal for ppl that dont like it) any of dose stuff thats is in the game or planned? and is it possibel to play as the sub? would be fun since am a sub my self so makeing others do what i want just isent me but since its femdom i keep an open mind sorry for asking about this the game seems intresting but just have to ask about it since feet aint really my thing sorry agein for takeing up your time hope you have a good day :)
 
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Dooder

Member
Aug 21, 2017
260
654
Give exhibionism and petplay where they do lewd stuff outdoors while avoiding getting seen by other people.
 

DawnCry

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,239
1,991
Let's see... overall I find the game good as it is, perhaps I would have liked that the game didn't give us such a big advantage over the elf princess.

Overall the current situation only gives us an option to be dominant towards the elf princess, there are no feelings there except a sadistic pleasure.

However... there are many ways to do the training that can have a really big influence on the princess and that can change the relationship:

1º Use the elf captives to destroy her trust of her people: What would happen if the elf princess sees the ugly face of the elves in the hope of survival?, overall it could be an interesting development that could be used to push her towards certain thinkings, for example agreeing with the view of the human princess about the relationship between the people and the ones in power.

2º Showing the human princess concern over the elf princess bit by bit, not only being a toy but something more, like a confident or even someone that she even loves.

3º Making the elf princess to punish human rebels and enjoying doing it in the end, basically making her more sadistic.

The only reason I could find in which the human princess would let the elf princess be in control would be if she is bored of being in control and wants to try something new, but that wouldn't happen unless she trusts the elf princess and there is quite a bit of development in game. This one could be interesting in the sense of the elf princess trying to make the human princess to defend her current thinking (which could be modified in certain circunstances if you use the chance).
 

tenaka88

Member
Jul 23, 2018
122
82
what could be fun is the sub becoming the dom one more than just a dom or sub path, but hey nice game for now keep going
 

Kat123456

Newbie
Apr 25, 2020
23
17
Noxurtica ok sorry for the late reply, I had IRL problems and I only now saw your message.

So, I will start with the golden rule of game design: your goal as a game designer is to create one of those gags you'll see in old cartoons. Remember? The thing with the donkey that has a harness on its back, the harness is attached to a fishing rod, and the fishing rod is dangling a carrot in front of the eyes of the donkey, so the donkey moves forward because it's trying to get the carrot. Yeah, your game is the harness, the reward obtained from mastering the gameplay is the carrot, and the player is the donkey: this is a very crude image, but I think it conveys very well what I'm trying to explain.

Now, in a porn game this is doubly true, because the concept of "reward" in such a game is twofold: of course, a good game needs to be designed well so that mastering its mechanics will be its own reward, like in all games (people usually play games for the sense of accomplishment that comes from mastering their mechanics, it is a general truth of life), but then you also have the added reward of porn. So what you want to do is combine these two types of "reward": you want to teach the player a skill, you want to test them to see if they properly mastered that skill, and if they did they unlock stuff and feel accomplished... And if they did particularly well, and/or they achieved a particular milestone in terms of either gameplay ("collect 500 items") or narrative ("learn the truth about this character"), they also get the porn. This, by the way, is the reason why all those "dungeon rape" games are a quintessential example of BAD game design: because in those you get the porn if you lose. Meaning, you have to learn a skill, and then you get the extra reward for NOT using that skill properly. That's counterintuitive and does not lead to a meaningful experience.

With the above in mind, let's look at your game: the premise of there being a princess who is cruel to another princess is potentially awesome, both in terms of the million directions you could take the storytelling (maybe the cruel princess has issues that made her cruel, but over time the sub princess will help her resolve them and the two will become genuine friends while still doing BDSM because why not. Or maybe the cruel princess is just a huge bitch and so eventually the sub princess will turn on her. Or maybe it will be the player to determine with their choices which personality trait is played up the most) and in terms of, let's face it, the really hot porn scenes that could come from it. So if this was a porn comic or other such non-interactive medium I'd have nothing to say: there do seem to be some art-related issues, but I am not qualified to discuss those, so I'd just sit back and see where this goes.

But since this is a game, then the reward-oriented mentality MUST be present, because that is a fundamental component of a game. And when I look at what you have right now, I'm sorry to say but that mentality just isn't there: right now, all your porn is rewarding is the patience the player demonstrated in quietly sitting through the infodump of lore-related stuff. That, no matter how you look at it, is not a meaningful experience: even if you do add more significant gameplay later on, as long as the beginning of the game is like this then you'll always have a problem, because the average player will get bored, will feel unchallenged and uninterested, before they even get there. And so the risk is that many people might dismiss your game without giving the actually interesting part a chance. And that would be a shame, so we must avoid it at all costs.

Because see, the fact of the matter is that the lore is actually very interesting, I like how you framed it and how you set it up to play into the actual mechanics of the game: it's just the way it is introduced to the player that is problematic. So let's improve that, shall we?
The most optimal thing you could do is to sit down with your colleagues in this endeavor, and set in stone a number of things you want the player to learn. Like, take Mario games: the two fundamental things those games want players to learn is the timing of jumps, and the optimal ways of using power ups. So what are the things you want your players to learn? Maybe you want them to learn a choice-driven political gameplay, akin to Long Live The Queen (awesome game by the way, play it if you haven't, you could stand to learn a lot from it). Maybe you want them to learn a skill-based "how to train your slave" kind of gameplay, or maybe you want them to go through a number of simple minigames based on either observation or reflexes. Regardless, your goal for now is to define a number of simple things you want the player to learn to start the game: these will be your "mission statement", your "good day and thanks for playing, this is what the game is going to be about", so make sure you go for captivating, addicting things. After all, we need this part to make a good impression, we need the player to be hooked!

Once you've done this, you need to set up the initial portion of your game in such a way, that the player will need to complete a small set of tasks in order to get started. Each of these initial tasks will be set up so as to make them learn the things you decided you want them to learn: back to the Mario example, early levels in those are always about simple jumps of varying length, so that the player will learn to judge and time a jump properly.
For each task the player completes, you reward them by letting them learn a bit about the lore, giving them one by one the important points which, in your current set-up, you're simply listing. And when they complete all the task, thus finishing the "tutorial" portion of the game, you reward them with the first big porn scene. What you accomplish by doing this:

1) The player learns what the game is about: hopefully "what the game is about" will be something they'll like, thus persuading them to stick around

2) The player figures out the basics of the gameplay, thus being taught about what they need to play without being made to feel like a moron through excessive hand-holding (I.E. fucking Navi in Ocarina of Time)

3) The player discovers the important lore little by little, in an engaging manner that helps their immersion in the game, as opposed to being lectured about it in a manner that feels like homework

4) The player forms an expectation: that accomplishing important milestones in the game (in this case, completing the tutorial) will get them the porn they came for. If the porn is good (and making good porn relies on writing tricks as well as quality art, aspects which, again, I am unfortunately not qualified to discuss, so I cannot be of help here) this expectation will fuel their desire to keep on playing the game, but of course you will also have the responsibility to deliver on that expectation as the game progresses, by consistently giving the player quality porn as reward at regular intervals

This is all. I ended up going longer than I was originally planning to, but hopefully all this rambling of mine will be helpful to you. Again, this kind of stuff is literally my IRL job, so I can get a bit preachy about it: hopefully you'll be able to see past that and learn something :(
 

Noxurtica

Member
Game Developer
Mar 3, 2019
361
1,320
so like pussy licking ass kissing/licking what about pee fetish (optinal for ppl that dont like it) any of dose stuff thats is in the game or planned? and is it possibel to play as the sub? would be fun since am a sub my self so makeing others do what i want just isent me but since its femdom i keep an open mind sorry for asking about this the game seems intresting but just have to ask about it since feet aint really my thing sorry agein for takeing up your time hope you have a good day :)
Yes, we're going to explore a lot of fetishes, including the ones you listed.
 
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Noxurtica

Member
Game Developer
Mar 3, 2019
361
1,320
Give exhibionism and petplay where they do lewd stuff outdoors while avoiding getting seen by other people.
Exhibitionism and petplay are planned.

Found a bug. Had the "kiss hand become slave" scene repeat on two separate days.
Thanks for letting us know! We'll get to fixing it right away.

Let's see... overall I find the game good as it is, perhaps I would have liked that the game didn't give us such a big advantage over the elf princess.

Overall the current situation only gives us an option to be dominant towards the elf princess, there are no feelings there except a sadistic pleasure.

However... there are many ways to do the training that can have a really big influence on the princess and that can change the relationship:

1º Use the elf captives to destroy her trust of her people: What would happen if the elf princess sees the ugly face of the elves in the hope of survival?, overall it could be an interesting development that could be used to push her towards certain thinkings, for example agreeing with the view of the human princess about the relationship between the people and the ones in power.

2º Showing the human princess concern over the elf princess bit by bit, not only being a toy but something more, like a confident or even someone that she even loves.

3º Making the elf princess to punish human rebels and enjoying doing it in the end, basically making her more sadistic.

The only reason I could find in which the human princess would let the elf princess be in control would be if she is bored of being in control and wants to try something new, but that wouldn't happen unless she trusts the elf princess and there is quite a bit of development in game. This one could be interesting in the sense of the elf princess trying to make the human princess to defend her current thinking (which could be modified in certain circunstances if you use the chance).
We'll be adding some twists and turns to make the dynamic more interesting. We are planning at the very least a sadistic route and a love route. I love the three suggestions you gave! I will talk to our writer about them.

what could be fun is the sub becoming the dom one more than just a dom or sub path, but hey nice game for now keep going
We're planning role reversals, but it will probably be for when the player gets to start as the elf princess. Thanks for the encouragement!
 

Noxurtica

Member
Game Developer
Mar 3, 2019
361
1,320
Noxurtica ok sorry for the late reply, I had IRL problems and I only now saw your message.

So, I will start with the golden rule of game design: your goal as a game designer is to create one of those gags you'll see in old cartoons. Remember? The thing with the donkey that has a harness on its back, the harness is attached to a fishing rod, and the fishing rod is dangling a carrot in front of the eyes of the donkey, so the donkey moves forward because it's trying to get the carrot. Yeah, your game is the harness, the reward obtained from mastering the gameplay is the carrot, and the player is the donkey: this is a very crude image, but I think it conveys very well what I'm trying to explain.

Now, in a porn game this is doubly true, because the concept of "reward" in such a game is twofold: of course, a good game needs to be designed well so that mastering its mechanics will be its own reward, like in all games (people usually play games for the sense of accomplishment that comes from mastering their mechanics, it is a general truth of life), but then you also have the added reward of porn. So what you want to do is combine these two types of "reward": you want to teach the player a skill, you want to test them to see if they properly mastered that skill, and if they did they unlock stuff and feel accomplished... And if they did particularly well, and/or they achieved a particular milestone in terms of either gameplay ("collect 500 items") or narrative ("learn the truth about this character"), they also get the porn. This, by the way, is the reason why all those "dungeon rape" games are a quintessential example of BAD game design: because in those you get the porn if you lose. Meaning, you have to learn a skill, and then you get the extra reward for NOT using that skill properly. That's counterintuitive and does not lead to a meaningful experience.

With the above in mind, let's look at your game: the premise of there being a princess who is cruel to another princess is potentially awesome, both in terms of the million directions you could take the storytelling (maybe the cruel princess has issues that made her cruel, but over time the sub princess will help her resolve them and the two will become genuine friends while still doing BDSM because why not. Or maybe the cruel princess is just a huge bitch and so eventually the sub princess will turn on her. Or maybe it will be the player to determine with their choices which personality trait is played up the most) and in terms of, let's face it, the really hot porn scenes that could come from it. So if this was a porn comic or other such non-interactive medium I'd have nothing to say: there do seem to be some art-related issues, but I am not qualified to discuss those, so I'd just sit back and see where this goes.

But since this is a game, then the reward-oriented mentality MUST be present, because that is a fundamental component of a game. And when I look at what you have right now, I'm sorry to say but that mentality just isn't there: right now, all your porn is rewarding is the patience the player demonstrated in quietly sitting through the infodump of lore-related stuff. That, no matter how you look at it, is not a meaningful experience: even if you do add more significant gameplay later on, as long as the beginning of the game is like this then you'll always have a problem, because the average player will get bored, will feel unchallenged and uninterested, before they even get there. And so the risk is that many people might dismiss your game without giving the actually interesting part a chance. And that would be a shame, so we must avoid it at all costs.

Because see, the fact of the matter is that the lore is actually very interesting, I like how you framed it and how you set it up to play into the actual mechanics of the game: it's just the way it is introduced to the player that is problematic. So let's improve that, shall we?
The most optimal thing you could do is to sit down with your colleagues in this endeavor, and set in stone a number of things you want the player to learn. Like, take Mario games: the two fundamental things those games want players to learn is the timing of jumps, and the optimal ways of using power ups. So what are the things you want your players to learn? Maybe you want them to learn a choice-driven political gameplay, akin to Long Live The Queen (awesome game by the way, play it if you haven't, you could stand to learn a lot from it). Maybe you want them to learn a skill-based "how to train your slave" kind of gameplay, or maybe you want them to go through a number of simple minigames based on either observation or reflexes. Regardless, your goal for now is to define a number of simple things you want the player to learn to start the game: these will be your "mission statement", your "good day and thanks for playing, this is what the game is going to be about", so make sure you go for captivating, addicting things. After all, we need this part to make a good impression, we need the player to be hooked!

Once you've done this, you need to set up the initial portion of your game in such a way, that the player will need to complete a small set of tasks in order to get started. Each of these initial tasks will be set up so as to make them learn the things you decided you want them to learn: back to the Mario example, early levels in those are always about simple jumps of varying length, so that the player will learn to judge and time a jump properly.
For each task the player completes, you reward them by letting them learn a bit about the lore, giving them one by one the important points which, in your current set-up, you're simply listing. And when they complete all the task, thus finishing the "tutorial" portion of the game, you reward them with the first big porn scene. What you accomplish by doing this:

1) The player learns what the game is about: hopefully "what the game is about" will be something they'll like, thus persuading them to stick around

2) The player figures out the basics of the gameplay, thus being taught about what they need to play without being made to feel like a moron through excessive hand-holding (I.E. fucking Navi in Ocarina of Time)

3) The player discovers the important lore little by little, in an engaging manner that helps their immersion in the game, as opposed to being lectured about it in a manner that feels like homework

4) The player forms an expectation: that accomplishing important milestones in the game (in this case, completing the tutorial) will get them the porn they came for. If the porn is good (and making good porn relies on writing tricks as well as quality art, aspects which, again, I am unfortunately not qualified to discuss, so I cannot be of help here) this expectation will fuel their desire to keep on playing the game, but of course you will also have the responsibility to deliver on that expectation as the game progresses, by consistently giving the player quality porn as reward at regular intervals

This is all. I ended up going longer than I was originally planning to, but hopefully all this rambling of mine will be helpful to you. Again, this kind of stuff is literally my IRL job, so I can get a bit preachy about it: hopefully you'll be able to see past that and learn something :(
This is excellent advice. I'm grateful to get professional feedback for free. I'll definitely give "Long Live the Queen" a shot and see if I can learn some game development tips I can implement. Right now, there is this separation of opinions, where some people enjoy the game as is while others view it as unacceptable. I think that's because they expected an action-packed porn RPG and instead got a visual novel with bits of sim management with gradual addition of porn woven into the plot. It would be easy to change if everyone agreed it was bad, but seeing differing opinions, I don't know what to really think.

Regarding the tutorial, what tutorial mini game could we add, when the game isn't designed to have mini games at all? It is basically a choose your own adventure with bits of sim management. I suppose we could add some dialogue options in the intro? Maybe the player can choose between comments during the court, which will affect the starting stats/circumstances. Do you think this would work?

Btw, you don't come across as preachy at all! Really appreciate the constructive feedback and the time you took to help us out.
 

Ninjaman2

Member
Dec 4, 2018
405
695
TBH the appeal of the role-reversal is being in the position of the queen acted submissively. Totally understand if that isn't the vibe you want for the game but the reason people want it is due to wanting to play as the queen being submissive.

Hopefully the bug fix for the repeat of the hand kiss scene happens soon, will give this game another chance because I love the political aspect of the game.

I second recommending Long Live the Queen. It isn't an erotic game at all but it is one of the best indie games I've played. There's a pretty interesting story under the hood and I've sunk 20 hours into it according to Steam.
 

Dooder

Member
Aug 21, 2017
260
654
TBH the appeal of the role-reversal is being in the position of the queen acted submissively. Totally understand if that isn't the vibe you want for the game but the reason people want it is due to wanting to play as the queen being submissive.

Hopefully the bug fix for the repeat of the hand kiss scene happens soon, will give this game another chance because I love the political aspect of the game.

I second recommending Long Live the Queen. It isn't an erotic game at all but it is one of the best indie games I've played. There's a pretty interesting story under the hood and I've sunk 20 hours into it according to Steam.
While its a fine idea to have the queen as sub, that should be added later.
Rather have 1 well made route that gets developed at reasonable speed, than 2 routes that take forever to develop.
Nothing is worse than games that got lots of routes but all just ends in under development.
 
3.80 star(s) 12 Votes