VN Ren'Py Monster College [v0.8.16] [Monster Eye Games]

[Brannon]

First Mc does not have a harem yet and by your logic it is solo only because ( not like there good relationship between Nina with Rachel and Sofia. At best they're total strangers, and at worst, they're antagonistic towards each other with each vying to snatch MC for themselves.) forgetting the fact Sofia and lisa have a path together from early on and they hate each other.

NO ONE SAID THE AMBUSH WAS GOOD

But you clearly can look at it from the other paths it is not kinetic different choices have different outcomes. Have you never played a game with different paths some times characters act different on different paths.

If the mc can get Sofia and lisa to have a throuple path (variable set early in game) why is it so hard for you to see a path that mc gets them to get along.

#1 Lily not Lisa
#2 The different paths for solo are ... present but that's about it. Whether you choose Sofia or Rachel apart from flavor text it is basically the very same.
#3 The damage is done at that point. The girls showed their "New and Improved!" characters. In some sense what the player gets now is not what he was promised/worked for.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

#1 Lily not Lisa
#2 The different paths for solo are ... present but that's about it. Whether you choose Sofia or Rachel apart from flavor text it is basically the very same.
#3 The damage is done at that point. The girls showed their "New and Improved!" characters. In some sense what the player gets now is not what he was promised/worked for.

It's been a minute since I logged in, what did I miss or is it still part of the same bs as before?

 

[Ayhsel]

But you clearly can look at it from the other paths it is not kinetic different choices have different outcomes. Have you never played a game with different paths some times characters act different on different paths.

I think you are absolutely missing the point on what people are telling you.

Consistency of people's character has to be done FOR ALL ROUTES AND CHOICES. This is basic in any game and writing.

It does NOT matter how different the solo vs the harem path are. Just pick the harem route on its own, abstract yourself from the other paths. Seriously, just focus on that. Then it becomes obvious that character's personality is pretty much broken in that path. This is a problem for the novel regardless of what is happening on the other paths.

EDIT: sorry, explanation got a bit technical. It is hard to let the academic training out sometimes.

IDEALLY, following a causality argument, you would like that different paths in each novel are consequences of choices that make sense. Say that before making a decision, choosing between A1 and B1, you reach a state of the story called X0. In one path Lisa character dies because MC did something that: MC did A1 over B1, which generated A2, then A3... up to A10 in which Lisa dies. All events are essentially a consequence of picking A1 over B1.

X0 -> A1 -> A2 ... A10: Lisa Dies

If MC had picked B1 over A1, then the sequence of event do not happen and Lisa stays alive.

X0 -> B1 -> B2 ... B10: Lisa survives.

That is, X0 can lead to A10 or B10 depending on whether you picked A1 or B1 by causality. That is, if you want you can think X0 has two arrows, one that leads to A10 and another that leads to B10. A single graph.

Some novels fail to successfully write the causality. Fate Stay Night, for example, has paths that feel almost like totally different scenarios. Where even some characters exist or do not exist but that are NOT a consequence of the character's action in a causality kind of way. It's more like you are choosing parallel realities when you make choices, instead of being lead by CAUSALITY what separates the novel. HOWEVER, inside each path, there is continuity going on. That is, if you take everything from X0 to A10 or X0 to B10, the story does not feel broken.

Instead of X0 having 2 arrows leading to either A10 or B10, it feels more like you have 2 different graphs, one from X0 to A10, and another from X0 to B10.

NOW, the problem with the harem path is that even forgetting the other paths exists, the behavior of the character is broken. Continuity on a single line of the choice tree is by itself broken. You pick A1, then you generate A2, A3... up to A10 but instead of reaching A10, somehow you are reaching C10. Now, C10 contradicts all that X0.

So your path from X0 to C10 is broken down. A10 should follow from X0, but something feels absolutely disconnected, and you reach C10. Notice that picking B1 here has nothing to do with the problem mentioned. X0 to A10 by itself is broken. So forget about that B elements.

THIS is the problem with the harem route. X0 here is the personality of the characters. When you get to C10, nothing happened from A1 to A9 that can justify the personality of the characters in X0 to jump to C10. They were written for solo path (A paths) and now are all happy-go-harem (C).

This disconnection between established elements is hard to tolerate for anyone that cares slightly about writing being consistent and is not just wanting a single outcome.

DEUS EX MACHINAS, if you will, generate the same ugly feeling, where everything is written leading you to to A10 but they invent some random crap that makes you jump to C10. While causality there is not broken BECAUSE of the Deus Ex Machina, it feels like writer fucked on everything they had written before. In fact, you could even set up the harem route like a deus ex machina. "And suddently, a god that was watching the confrontation between the Love Interests and MC felt pity on MC and used his godly powers to make the Love Interests happily accept harems." ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.

 

[JJJ84]

I think you are absolutely missing the point on what people are telling you.

Consistency of people's character has to be done FOR ALL ROUTES AND CHOICES. This is basic in any game and writing.

It does NOT matter how different the solo vs the harem path are. Just pick the harem route on its own, abstract yourself from the other paths. Seriously, just focus on that. Then it becomes obvious that character's personality is pretty much broken in that path. This is a problem for the novel regardless of what is happening on the other paths.

EDIT: sorry, explanation got a bit technical. It is hard to let the academic training out sometimes.

IDEALLY, following a causality argument, you would like that different paths in each novel are consequences of choices that make sense. Say that before making a decision, choosing between A1 and B1, you reach a state of the story called X0. In one path Lisa character dies because MC did something that: MC did A1 over B1, which generated A2, then A3... up to A10 in which Lisa dies. All events are essentially a consequence of picking A1 over B1.

X0 -> A1 -> A2 ... A10: Lisa Dies

If MC had picked B1 over A1, then the sequence of event do not happen and Lisa stays alive.

X0 -> B1 -> B2 ... B10: Lisa survives.

That is, X0 can lead to A10 or B10 depending on whether you picked A1 or B1 by causality. That is, if you want you can think X0 has two arrows, one that leads to A10 and another that leads to B10. A single graph.

Some novels fail to successfully write the causality. Fate Stay Night, for example, has paths that feel almost like totally different scenarios. Where even some characters exist or do not exist but that are NOT a consequence of the character's action in a causality kind of way. It's more like you are choosing parallel realities when you make choices, instead of being lead by CAUSALITY what separates the novel. HOWEVER, inside each path, there is continuity going on. That is, if you take everything from X0 to A10 or X0 to B10, the story does not feel broken.

Instead of X0 having 2 arrows leading to either A10 or B10, it feels more like you have 2 different graphs, one from X0 to A10, and another from X0 to B10.

NOW, the problem with the harem path is that even forgetting the other paths exists, the behavior of the character is broken. Continuity on a single line of the choice tree is by itself broken. You pick A1, then you generate A2, A3... up to A10 but instead of reaching A10, somehow you are reaching C10. Now, C10 contradicts all that X0.

So your path from X0 to C10 is broken down. A10 should follow from X0, but something feels absolutely disconnected, and you reach C10. Notice that picking B1 here has nothing to do with the problem mentioned. X0 to A10 by itself is broken. So forget about that B elements.

THIS is the problem with the harem route. X0 here is the personality of the characters. When you get to C10, nothing happened from A1 to A9 that can justify the personality of the characters in X0 to jump to C10. They were written for solo path (A paths) and now are all happy-go-harem (C).

This disconnection between established elements is hard to tolerate for anyone that cares slightly about writing being consistent and is not just wanting a single outcome.

DEUS EX MACHINAS, if you will, generate the same ugly feeling, where everything is written leading you to to A10 but they invent some random crap that makes you jump to C10. While causality there is not broken BECAUSE of the Deus Ex Machina, it feels like writer fucked on everything they had written before. In fact, you could even set up the harem route like a deus ex machina. "And suddently, a god that was watching the confrontation between the Love Interests and MC felt pity on MC and used his godly powers to make the Love Interests happily accept harems." ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.

And as I said before, Once in a Lifetime (I'll use that one cause that's finished, instead of Eternum, which is still ongoing), is a perfect example of that.

X0 = Lauren, the older sister's personality.
A1 to A9 = all the adventures that Lauren goes though not just with MC, but with her younger sister, her mom and her sister and other LIs of MC, all the perils and thrills and the fun; i.e. the female friendships and hardships, the bond and camaraderie!

C10 = eventual destination by the game's end where Lauren accepts MC has a harem

Which makes OIAL fit full-harem like a glove, cause everything is in place.

In contrast to that game, this game, the whole A1 to A9, bonding process is missing (or just very little of it if not nonexistent) and the story just skipped right over to girls saying "Oh I'm willing to consider if she's doing it."

That, is just not a good direction to take in terms of LIs' characterization - I mean it may work if these LIs are robots where their emotions/beliefs/thought process are programs to be flipped on or off or as you said, MC being granted godly powers , but otherwise it just opens itself up to criticisms (which several people have made already).

 

[Jack Townsend]

I was playing the game with the walkthrough mod and stumbled on something that piqued my interest. During the confrontation scene, if you pick "I love Nina" the follow-up dialogue choices are 1."I only want you, 2." I'll think about it," and 3."What do you think of it?" The third option was labeled "Harem" by the mod. The second option was labeled "Nina Harem" by the mod. That got me thinking that maybe there was already a variation of a harem route planned by the developer on Nina's route. So essentially, now we might be getting two different harem routes: a vanilla harem and a Nina harem.

 

[Brannon]

I was playing the game with the walkthrough mod and stumbled on something that piqued my interest. During the confrontation scene, if you pick "I love Nina" the follow-up dialogue choices are 1."I only want you, 2." I'll think about it," and 3."What do you think of it?" The third option was labeled "Harem" by the mod. The second option was labeled "Nina Harem" by the mod. That got me thinking that maybe there was already a variation of a harem route planned by the developer on Nina's route. So essentially, now we might be getting two different harem routes: a vanilla harem and a Nina harem.

More likely is that Nina in the "Nina harem" is sort of the ringleader while in the "normal" harem she is present i.e. it is the "base version" before a different girl takes charge.
Maybe since MC "thinks about it" Nina takes it upon herself to build the harem without MC's knowledge.

Keep in mind two things:
#1 The mod goes on variables found in the code
#2 The developer is italian, meaning your thoughts and his don't necessarily line up.

 

[Jack Townsend]

More likely is that Nina in the "Nina harem" is sort of the ringleader while in the "normal" harem she is present i.e. it is the "base version" before a different girl takes charge.
Maybe since MC "thinks about it" Nina takes it upon herself to build the harem without MC's knowledge.

Keep in mind two things:
#1 The mod goes on variables found in the code
#2 The developer is italian, meaning your thoughts and his don't necessarily line up.

Makes me wonder what a Nina lead harem would look like. Anne would definitely be a part of it. I guess I could see Rachel being in it as well. A maledomed Dragomira might fit in it too. The MC can have all the vampires and werewolves for himself.

 

[Brannon]

Makes me wonder what a Nina lead harem would look like. Anne would definitely be a part of it. I guess I could see Rachel being in it as well. A maledomed Dragomira might fit in it too. The MC can have all the vampires and werewolves for himself.

Anne left pissed off, it is unlikely MC will see her again. Apparently she was only brought back to trigger this "comedic scene".
Plus keep in mind Anne and Nina were very close to perform a nude wrestling match (because of the transformation) in the halls ...

 

[Jack Townsend]

Anne left pissed off, it is unlikely MC will see her again. Apparently she was only brought back to trigger this "comedic scene".
Plus keep in mind Anne and Nina were very close to perform a nude wrestling match (because of the transformation) in the halls ...

I'm pretty sure they'll bring Anne back eventually. I don't think she'd be on the relationship points list if she was just a temporary character. Besides, you have the option of telling her that you want her. And even though she left angry, she did say that she would think about it.

 

[Jack Townsend]

I'm pretty sure they'll bring Anne back eventually. I don't think she'd be on the relationship points list if she was just a temporary character. Besides, you have the option of telling her that you want her. And even though she left angry, she did say that she would think about it.

Oh, and thank you for that very pleasant mental image of Nina and Anne nude wrestling.

 

[Brannon]

I'm pretty sure they'll bring Anne back eventually. I don't think she'd be on the relationship points list if she was just a temporary character. Besides, you have the option of telling her that you want her. And even though she left angry, she did say that she would think about it.

Anne having relationship points does not say squat for two reasons.

#1 It was introduced back when the game was "Mono relationship with occasional chance for a throuple"
#2 That someone has relationship points does not mean his/her story isn't over. The intended maximum for relationship points could have been 1 ...

 

[Jack Townsend]

Anne having relationship points does not say squat for two reasons.

#1 It was introduced back when the game was "Mono relationship with occasional chance for a throuple"
#2 That someone has relationship points does not mean his/her story isn't over. The intended maximum for relationship points could have been 1 ...

Technically the points system can still be relevant in the game, even in its tarnished and watered down form. And the number of points you can get with Anne is more than one. Also, at the end of chapter six, when the game asks you if you want your romance options restricted, just say yes. From that point on I think the game still technically functions by the old monogamous/throuple rules, even if the story has tarnished and watered them down.

 

[BlasKyau]

I'm pretty sure they'll bring Anne back eventually. I don't think she'd be on the relationship points list if she was just a temporary character. Besides, you have the option of telling her that you want her. And even though she left angry, she did say that she would think about it.

Actually when you see how the Dev has set the variables to determine if the LIs are in the harem or not:



And you see that with Anne she has used the same system when you ask her to be part of it, it makes it seem like the intention is for her to really be part of it.



If the intention is that she doesn't to appear again, creating a variable about the status of her relationship with the MC is impractical.

EDIT:

Additionally, we have this comment from Dev on discord:

 

[Brannon]

If the intention is that she doesn't to appear again, creating a variable about the status of her relationship with the MC is impractical.

So was shoehorning in the ambush scene.
And so was turning a monogamy game with established characters who pretty much oppose the notion of a harem into a full harem game.

Your point being?



If a story is changed there almost always (unless the developer in question is really on top of it) are remnants of old code left behind.
That variable might indicate that at one point she was meant to be in the harem that is set up.
Keep in mind Anne angrily leaves the college and she somewhat wearily agrees to think about a harem if MC brought it up. Meaning she may or may not return for it.
More to the point it might have been considered by the dev at one point that she may or may not return for it.

Or that the variable naming convention was just a copy&paste incident while programming and has no further meaning.

 

[Jack Townsend]

Looking forward to the game answering some questions. If the MC refused the sex ritual with Sofia, who does she do it with instead? Will Anna return to enroll at the college? After the femdom scene with Dragomira, the screen flashes red and she looks dizzy and woozy. What caused this? Finally, if you allow Dragomira to suck your... blood, can MC now become part vampire himself?

 

[Juv3]

Is the femdom scene with Dragomira
Aviodeble

 

[Jack Townsend]

Is the femdom scene with Dragomira
Aviodeble

Yes. You can do a maledom scene with her. Or you can simply watch her pleasure herself with a metal toy.

 

[DarkMage73]

The Maledom version is the best out them 2 options.

 

[Jack Townsend]

The Maledom version is the best out them 2 options.

If it were up to me, I would have done both the femdom and maledom scenes back to back. Start with the femdom scene. Then when Dragomira gets bitchy afterwards, have the MC turn into the beast and go into the maledom scene. That would have been great.

 

[Brannon]

Looking forward to the game answering some questions. If the MC refused the sex ritual with Sofia, who does she do it with instead? Will Anna return to enroll at the college? After the femdom scene with Dragomira, the screen flashes red and she looks dizzy and woozy. What caused this? Finally, if you allow Dragomira to suck your... blood, can MC now become part vampire himself?

My speculations on that:

Sofia needs serious encouragement by MC to have sex, it is likely she would get anxious with other participants as well. Meaning she likely won't unlock her full witch potential if MC did not do it.
Maybe she overcomes that restraint/guilt/fear with John Doe, but it is unlikely since MC is the first person in a year that was willing to help her. She was all but ignored by everyone else.
With Silverleaf on lockdown she can't go to a bar in the next town to find a one-night-weirdo even if she wanted to.

Whether Anna returns to the college apparently depends on how the MC treated her at the farewell. If he asked her to be in the harem apparently she is in the story going further, and that means she likely enrolls. If MC did not ask her to join the harem she is gone for good.

The screen flashing red likely meant that Dragomira got thirsty and the MC sensed that as a sort of warning.
Not a spidey sense but a wolfey sense so to speak.

Usually neither werewolves nor vampires can get sick. Vampires can't get sick because they are dead and werewolves usually have an immune system "on overdrive". Meaning his werewolf blood would combat the vampire infection similarly to MC being unable to "pass on the gift" to Rachel or Dragomira.
Plus usually it is not enough to have the vampire drink the victims blood, the transformation is triggered with the victim drinking the vampires blood after.
So no. The MC won't become a hybrid werepire through this.