VN Ren'Py My Dorm [v0.23.1 S3 Ch.3] [Tropecita Games]

[Trope95]

I've used up all of my brain power today, and I don't recall if I've ever played this or not. Am I correct in my thinking that I need to download Season 1, Season 2, and the in progress Season 3 all separately as of right now? If I haven't played before should I just wait for the Steam release?

As other players said, if you are new to My Dorm, the recommended way to play it is:
Download and play Season 1 until the end. The game will do an autoexport (it can fail depending on your Android device)
Download Season 2 and IMPORT your Season 1 savegame. If it failed, start a New Game and answer a quick questionnaire. Play until the end. Save your game.
Download Season 3 and LOAD your Season 2 savegame. There isn't a questionnaire.

I don't think waiting for the Steam release is needed. It's only a change in the interface, some re-rendered images/animations, and re-proofread script. The story will be the same.

It does makes me wonder what Trope intends to do with the Steam release though; will season 2 and up be DLC or seperate games?

Each season will be sold as an independent game (that will force me to add a questionnaire to Season 3 ).
Why? Because devs who know about this better than me say it's the way to do it. DLCs for adult games have a selling ratio of 10-35% with respect to the original game. Seasons as "Independent games" have a ratio of 60-90% and even push the sales of previous seasons a bit. That's because (among other reasons) Steam doesn't advertise DLCs. I don't know if I will sell zero, 1, 100, or 100,000 copies of Season 1, but giving up 25-80% of those sales for Season 2 (I think Season 2 is better than Season 1) isn't a good perspective. And it would be even worse for Seasons 3, 4, etc.

Let's go nerdy (and optimistic) and think Season 1 will sell 1,000 games, and use the average retention is 22.5% for DLCs and 75% for independent games for the math.

As you can see, Seasons 4 and 5 would only report losses after Steam cuts and fees. The totals would be 1,290 sales with DLCs and 3,051 with independent games. In neither case will I become rich, it isn't the goal, but doing it as DLC doesn't make any sense.

 

[johnny0183]

Each season will be sold as an independent game (that will force me to add a questionnaire to Season 3 ).
Why? Because devs who know about this better than me say it's the way to do it. DLCs for adult games have a selling ratio of 10-35% with respect to the original game. Seasons as "Independent games" have a ratio of 60-90% and even push the sales of previous seasons a bit. That's because (among other reasons) Steam doesn't advertise DLCs. I don't know if I will sell zero, 1, 100, or 100,000 copies of Season 1, but giving up 25-80% of those sales for Season 2 (I think Season 2 is better than Season 1) isn't a good perspective. And it would be even worse for Seasons 3, 4, etc.

Let's go nerdy (and optimistic) and think Season 1 will sell 1,000 games, and use the average retention is 22.5% for DLCs and 75% for independent games for the math.

As you can see, Seasons 4 and 5 would only report losses after Steam cuts and fees. The totals would be 1,290 sales with DLCs and 3,051 with independent games. In neither case will I become rich, it isn't the goal, but doing it as DLC doesn't make any sense.

That completely makes sense. I didn't realize there was such a big gap between DLC & seperate game sales, I was more thinking from a technical point of view and what would be most beneficial for you (curse of being a programmer, marketing side gets automatically ignored by my brain ).

 

[Trope95]

That completely makes sense. I didn't realize there was such a big gap between DLC & seperate game sales, I was more thinking from a technical point of view and what would be most beneficial for you (curse of being a programmer, marketing side gets automatically ignored by my brain ).

As an IT guy, I was thinking about DLCs, too. Easier and cleaner. But then I read an article by a dev studio who is selling A LOT on Steam and even opened their own store where other devs can sell their games. I can't say the name of the studio or the store because F95 seems to hate that page. I can only say that their most famous game has Fresh Women in it.

Back to the article. They talked about those numbers (I have refined them with information I have gleaned from other articles) and why they discarded their original idea of selling the second season as a DLC of the first one.
I'm talking about a dev who was bragging some months ago (showing proof) about having sold more than $320,000 on Steam. So they are people who know what they are talking about.

Back to topic, I love Betty and Kiara's scenes in the last update.

 

[HornyyPussy]

Back to topic, I love Betty and Kiara's scenes in the last update.

Does it hurt your back, kissing your own ass like that?

 

[Trope95]

Does it hurt your back, kissing your own ass like that?

Only when my beard entangles with the hair in my ass .

 

[HornyyPussy]

Only when my beard entangles with the hair in my ass .

 

[blkcrow20]

As an IT guy, I was thinking about DLCs, too. Easier and cleaner. But then I read an article by a dev studio who is selling A LOT on Steam and even opened their own store where other devs can sell their games. I can't say the name of the studio or the store because F95 seems to hate that page. I can only say that their most famous game has Fresh Women in it.

Back to the article. They talked about those numbers (I have refined them with information I have gleaned from other articles) and why they discarded their original idea of selling the second season as a DLC of the first one.
I'm talking about a dev who was bragging some months ago (showing proof) about having sold more than $320,000 on Steam. So they are people who know what they are talking about.

Back to topic, I love Betty and Kiara's scenes in the last update.

I second that opinion - Betty and Kiara's scenes are very hot. Kiara being my fave of the two. She has also risen on my list to the #2 spot behind Martha. But Martha will always be #1.

 

[HornyyPussy]

But Martha will always be #1.

I knew there was something I liked about you.........

 

[johnny0183]

As an IT guy, I was thinking about DLCs, too. Easier and cleaner. But then I read an article by a dev studio who is selling A LOT on Steam and even opened their own store where other devs can sell their games. I can't say the name of the studio or the store because F95 seems to hate that page. I can only say that their most famous game has Fresh Women in it.

Back to the article. They talked about those numbers (I have refined them with information I have gleaned from other articles) and why they discarded their original idea of selling the second season as a DLC of the first one.
I'm talking about a dev who was bragging some months ago (showing proof) about having sold more than $320,000 on Steam. So they are people who know what they are talking about.

Back to topic, I love Betty and Kiara's scenes in the last update.

 

[snakeplisskin]

I second that opinion - Betty and Kiara's scenes are very hot. Kiara being my fave of the two. She has also risen on my list to the #2 spot behind Martha. But Martha will always be #1.

 

[whatone]

Thank fuck this is a pirate site, where games are free.

 

[Trope95]

I will start with "The DLC could potentially be priced a bit lower". Why should I sell Season 2 cheaper than Season 1? It has more and better content than the first season (36k renders vs 19K)! It has fewer words but approximately the same playtime due to the writing being optimized.

I understand that some devs "abuse the system", splitting the game into Seasons when it's not needed. But this isn't the case with My Dorm. I squeeze the most content the technical limitations allow me to do into every season.

Yes, I also understand most players on Steam haven't heard about My Dorm or Tropecita Games, so they don't care. But the players who know me know I'm all for fairness. If people on O**aiman pay 10€ for a Season, people on Steam will pay 10€ for a Season. If they buy the games separately on itch, they will buy the games separately on Steam. Doing it differently on Steam would mean it wouldn't be fair for O**aiman or itch players.

Since Steam doesn't support Android, the size limitation isn't there, but doing it differently would also mean it would be unfair for Android players.

There's also a comparison thing. Imagine Ferrari could sell their cars at $50,000 and still earn money. Would they do it instead of selling them at the same price as Lamborghini sells theirs? No. Why? Because the audience would think it's a worse car. The same happens with games. Why do almost all the AAA games sell for 60€? Because if you saw Witcher 4 for 20€, you would think it's worse than other titles, or the studio isn't confident in their own product.

Now imagine you see an AVN for 12.99€ on Steam that says:

And another for 10€ that says:

Any player will think that the second one is worse (if they haven't heard of any of them) because it gives 3x the playtime and more renders, and it's cheaper. That can mean the developer doesn't think highly of his game. The second game is My Dorm Season 1, btw. Imagine now that this description, or similar, is in a DLC that sells even cheaper! Any player will think it's crap.

Let's talk about visibility and exposure. Steam doesn't give the same visibility to DLCs as it does to "independent" games. My Dorm always had an issue with exposure. I'm bad at marketing. Losing a possible boost in visibility would be like shooting myself in the foot.

As I said, my goal isn't to become rich. I did a job, and I would like a fair return from it. I can lose buyers because of that choice, but it's a meditated choice. I can also win buyers for future seasons. We will never know.

The numbers are there. Take the best-case scenario with DLCs, 35% player retention, and the worst-case scenario for an independent game, 60% player retention. If I sell 1,000 Season 1 games for 10€, that would mean 350 Season 2 DLCs for 9€ (taking your advice of selling the DLC cheaper) or 600 Season 2 independent games for 10€. Total sales: 13,150€ with DLCs and 16,000€ with independent games (before Steam fees, taxes, discounts, etc. Devs don't get half of those theoretic sales).
Once again, why would anyone sane sell the rest of the seasons as DLC?

No offense intended, but you aren't a good example of the target audience on Steam. You, with over 2,500 games, only have an AVN because it was sold as a complete package. You didn't buy AVNs that were sold with Seasons as DLCs. You didn't buy AVNs that were sold with Seasons as independent games. You only bought ONE AVN that was sold as a complete package.

You also talk about an AVN getting to the price of an AAA game if it has several seasons. I think the comparison is unfair. What makes a game an AAA game? Size of the team? Budget? Length of gameplay? Marketing? Note that I don't talk about quality. There are crappy games among the considered AAA games. I made a fast google search:

So, let's talk about The Witcher 3, the only one I played in the examples.

When it went on Steam, it was 60€ IIRC (Euros of 2015, that would mean 87,86 in 2025, taking into account the inflation shown

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). For My Dorm to get to that price, it would take ~9 seasons. OK, Main Story and side content in My Dorm: 20-30h per season makes 180-270h of gameplay (vs. 105). Competionist: Seeing every combination of choices, some millions of hours (vs. 180).
Are they the same kind of game? No, obviously. Have they the same quality? No, obviously (My Dorm doesn't have as much clipping). Are they comparable? No, obviously.
Why do we pay for games (or anything else)? To enjoy them for a reasonable hour per € invested. Would we pay 60€ for an AAA game that lasted for 10 minutes? I doubt it, even if it was the best game in the world. Would we pay for a full ticket in the cinema to see the best movie in the world if it lasted 10 minutes? I wouldn't.
My Dorm gives more hours per € than The Witcher 3. I'm not comparing both games. You did.

 

[johnny0183]

Why do we pay for games (or anything else)? To enjoy them for a reasonable hour per € invested.

True but also to reward someone (you) for providing us with quality entertainment. I could just play My Dorm for free since you provide downloads here but I fully intend to buy the seasons on Steam once they are released there. Why? Because I think your game deserves it.

 

[txe320]

True but also to reward someone (you) for providing us with quality entertainment. I could just play My Dorm for free since you provide downloads here but I fully intend to buy the seasons on Steam once they are released there. Why? Because I think your game deserves it.

Same.

I download it for free here and I enjoy it because the game and the dev are awesome, but it also the kind of game I totally don't mind buying.


If I ended up buying GTA V because I loved that game (first time on PS3, then PS4 and again on PC), I totally don't mind buying all of My Dorm seasons even if I can download it free here.

I said it and say it again; it's totally one of the best AVN, period. So it's consider a AAA game in his genre.

 

[Jaga Telesin]

Edit: Encapsulating this in a Spoiler since it gets a bit business-heavy and long winded.

Spoiler

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tldr; Blah-blah business, blah-blah marketing, blah-blah-blah!

 

[jI11jaCksjAkk]

The part of the record player that touches the vinyl is called the needle. The automatic arm puts the needle down on the track to play the record. The needle senses the variations in the track which cause it to vibrate at the right frequencies to reproduce the music that was recorded in the groove.

They are obviously talking about analog music players, playing vinyl LPs. It's about a shared experience through music.

Yeah but...all over the world you know there are players under the age of ~40 who have absolutely no idea what a vinyl record is. "What do you mean streaming music services haven't been around, like, forever, Boomer??" Hilariously pathetic...and terribly sad at the same time.

I'm looking for the German translation. It's displayed, but it's grayed out.

Mein Gott!!

There is a saying: "When you hear hooves, you don't think of Zebras", unless you are a Zebra farmer...

Stop trying to make When-you-hear-hooves-you-don't-think-of-Zebras happen, Gretchen! We all know you made that up yourself.

Does it hurt your back, kissing your own ass like that?

To paraphrase the old expression: if I could kiss my own ass I'd never leave the house.

Thank fuck this is a pirate site, where games are free.

Yo. Fucking. Ho.

 

[whatone]

Now imagine you see an AVN for 12.99€ on Steam that says:

And another for 10€ that says:

Any player will think that the second one is worse (if they haven't heard of any of them) because it gives 3x the playtime and more renders, and it's cheaper. That can mean the developer doesn't think highly of his game. The second game is My Dorm Season 1, btw.

Personally, I would not think that.
I would try both first, before jumping to a conclusion about which is better & I most certainly would not base my decision beforehand solely on the cost. I would only form my opinion on which is worse, based on the quality of each.
Quality obviously being subjective. What one person thinks is excellent, does not mean that other people will necessarily share that opinion.

If anything, I would probably think that the 2nd game is a better value option & that the dev is being much more fair, giving us more content, more hours of gameplay, for less cost.
That does not mean it's a lesser game, to me. It just means that the dev is more likely to give a damn about his customers, which you obviously do.

Regardless, that's just my take. I think your pricing is fair & your game is excellent. So I think you should do what you feel is fair & correct.
Thank you for the game & for caring what people think about your creation.

 

[jadepaladin]

So, let's talk about The Witcher 3, the only one I played in the examples.

Have they the same quality? No, obviously (My Dorm doesn't have as much clipping).

I belly laughed so hard at this I embarrassed myself.

 

[danlan58]

The season 1 android download links are not working. The Pixeldrain link connects to the season 3 file not season 1. The Mega link file causes an error and will not install. I wanted to start the game at the beginning but forced to start with season 2.

 

[Trope95]

Small sidenote to Trope95 's comment about sales numbers: I think 1000 Season 1 units sold is vastly understating what you'll realistically see. The game is good, very good, and will sell itself with the content it has (and some shiny screens on the store page). Think more like 5,000 or 10,000 units in the first year alone. And if subsequent Seasons (as DLC) are priced lower, they'll be easy purchase decisions.

It's my first time on Steam, so I don't know how much sales I can expect with a game (season) that has been out for more than a year on "pirate" sites, Patreon/SS, or for free on my Discord. I think 1,000 units is a realistic baseline/goal.
In this case, I think the game being good or not isn't as important. People won't know if it's good or not until they purchase it. It's not an AAA game with a big marketing campaign before the release, so for most potential players on Steam it is just another AVN they haven't heard of. You, here on F95, have seen the game grow step by step and decided, or not, that it was worth supporting me on Patreon/SS. People on Steam won't have that previous experience, so it's "buy it or not".

This is an easy one to answer. DLC are 'locked' behind the main game - you can't play them unless you own the game to begin with. The clever strategy is to price the main game a bit higher, then the DLC a bit lower - you get the same amount for the complete package in the end. People that buy the main game and like it have a very easy time justifying the DLC purchase(s) as they cost less, and you end up with a complete game sale (all Seasons).

People that didn't like the game (and who wouldn't buy the other Seasons anyway), still paid slightly more for the main game (Season 1) and trying it out, so you make out better in the end with non-players.

The line of thinking is to price the complete game at $X, then chop that up between Seasons. Shift a portion of that cost from Seasons 2+ back onto Season 1 to raise the introductory price a bit, and lower the Season DLCs so they appear more attractive. Total game cost remains the same, and people that like it will have a very easy time buying into the DLC. Small example for ~6 seasons: total game cost at say.. $60. Instead of a flat $10/Season, Season 1 (the main game) becomes $15 ($10 plus $1 from each of the DLC shifted to it). DLC then are priced at $9 each, making them seem *very* affordable, and easy purchases.

I bought a lot of DLCs in my gamer life. Some of them promised a lot of content and ended up disappointing in the size or quality. Big studios have converted DLCs in a way of milking a game beyond the development cycle. And players have become weary of them.

Pricing My Dorm Season 1 higher would feed my imposter syndrome. And, as you say below, it will make more people think twice about buying a game they haven't heard of in a market (AVNs) where a lot of games are abandoned for a higher price. If they don't do a bit of research, they won't know the game already has a finished second season and a "half" third season.

And yet, some of us are good at marketing, and very willing to see one of our favorite games do well. If you'd rather start up a group/pm discussion instead of cluttering the topic, I'm all for it!

I may be, and I may not be. When I see an AVN 'chopped up' into separate Seasons, it's typically separate purchases of equal amounts, leading to what feels like an overall expensive experience. But when I see a game that has DLC with *good* quantities of content in it's DLC, where I can buy the main game, evaluate it, and then add-on the other parts for slightly less.. I tend to look more seriously at it.

Ultimately for you (the dev/pub) it's not about the total price of the game since it'd be the same either way presented. It's about how best to 'hook' a buyer, much like hooking a fish. If you have a great looking lure with an attractive smell and flashy bits that pulls the fish in to look harder, you've got them. That's where lower priced DLC that have as much or more content for (relatively speaking) 'less money' comes in. You still get the same big fish in the end, but the lure was better due to DLC pricing and how it was divided between the parts.

That same effect can be achieved, I think, with cheaper "independent games" (be it listed price, launch discounts, or bundles including the "original season). And it gets more exposure on Steam. A DLC will only be seen by players who own the original season. An independent game can be seen by everyone and, perhaps, some players may think, "Hey, this game I didn't try have a second season released, perhaps it's the time to buy both games!". That won't happen with DLCs since they won't see them.

Generally true, yep. Gamers tend to associate dollar/euro per hour of gameplay with value. Hard to get around that basic fact. But different games offer different experiences per hour. Someone might play both the Witcher 3 and My Dorm for the same ~70 hours, it's just the experience is different, which denotes a different type of buyer for each. One's rich in gameplay systems, flashy visuals, amazing sound effects and musical score, and might have hundreds of different locations to visit. The other might have little of that, but offer a unique experience in another way. The AAA might charge $70 because of the capital investment, whereas the AVN might not be able to and still reach the same audience.

It's all about price point, and available numbers per demographic. Your set product price determines the % of that demographic you can get seriously interested in buying: higher price and you reach less, but per-copy profit is higher. Lower price and you reach more, but per-copy profit is lower. The question becomes - does the increased copy count of the lower priced product multiplied by it's profit, outstrip the higher price model? Often that becomes the case - look at a game like Cookie Clicker on Steam.

....

Anyway, feels like clogging up the topic with business and marketing chit-chat. I'd love to take it to private or group chat if that appeals to you Trope. Just want to see the game do as well as humanly possible! Of course, in the end it's your choice since it's your baby.

Sidenote: seems like we may have informally (?) moved business follow-up to the off-topic My Dorm thread.

Obviously, the comparison with The Witcher 3 was made as a joke. They can't compare. My Dorm is better.
Even if I love Triss and Yen, The Witcher doesn't have a Martha, a Norah, or an Erika.
Talking seriously, I wouldn't pay the same price for My Dorm that I paid for The Witcher if I were the average Steam player. Not because of the quality or quantity of the content each provides in their genre, but because I knew The Witcher was developed by a serious studio and not a guy in his parent's basement who I never heard anything about. I would be more inclined to trust the big studio than the small developer. And I heard about The Witcher years before its release, while my reaction to My Dorm would be, "What's this Steam is recommending me?".

Let's continue the conversation in the Off-topic channel. I wanted to answer here because of the related posts from other players below.

Personally, I would not think that.
I would try both first, before jumping to a conclusion about which is better & I most certainly would not base my decision beforehand solely on the cost. I would only form my opinion on which is worse, based on the quality of each.
Quality obviously being subjective. What one person thinks is excellent, does not mean that other people will necessarily share that opinion.

If anything, I would probably think that the 2nd game is a better value option & that the dev is being much more fair, giving us more content, more hours of gameplay, for less cost.
That does not mean it's a lesser game, to me. It just means that the dev is more likely to give a damn about his customers, which you obviously do.

Regardless, that's just my take. I think your pricing is fair & your game is excellent. So I think you should do what you feel is fair & correct.
Thank you for the game & for caring what people think about your creation.

I will talk from a Spanish perspective (we are a bunch of thieves). If a Spaniard could try both games for free (through pirate sites, for example) before purchasing them, they would need some BIG incentive to buy any of them.

You should add to the equation that the cheapest game hasn't any reviews and the more expensive one...

The average player will think the more expensive one, although shorter, is a sure bet if he didn't try both beforehand. If a player has 12.99€ to spare (so he could buy any of them), I would bet he would go for the better-known one with great reviews, which is in the average market price, than for the one he hadn't heard of before even if it's cheaper and "promises" more hours of fun.

I thought about giving a demo for free (let's say v.0.1), but when I revisited the first release during the process of moving Season 1 to Season 2's interface, I discarded the idea. I'm not convinced that would show the game as it is right now or how it evolved. The renders, the posing, the lighting, and the writing were "relatively bad" if I compare them to what I'm doing now.

As I said above, I still have imposter syndrome. I can't believe how big "my little story" is becoming and the support I receive. I never thought of going into Steam when I started doing it, and now I'm scared. I still think I'm doing the game for friends (or friends-to-be) I met on the internet. So I care about what every player has to say. I could agree or not, but I read every opinion and care for them.

I wrote long ago that My Dorm is not MY game. It's OUR game. Mine and the players'. A game without players isn't a game anymore, right?

I belly laughed so hard at this I embarrassed myself.

I was obviously joking (although it's true that My Dorm has less clipping or poking through, I always thought Geralt's hair was made of steel to penetrate his armor and wondered why he didn't style his hear in a punk crest to use it as a weapon.)