VN Ren'Py My Dorm [v0.25.2 S3 Ch.5] [Tropecita Games]

[HornyyPussy]

From an accountability point of view, it's actually silly that nobody counts renders, animations, dialogue lines especially the ones who are paying for that particular project.

What "accountability"? If you're a Patreon you pay to support the dev, not for a certain amount of content.

 

[Negan22]

Ok, after reading this, I ask myself does Trope want to compare himself, with other Developers ?
Or does he just give us a heads up, about how much work he put into each update ?

I am ok with either case lol but he did said others are putting that and I am putting this, which isn't anything bad, almost every developer I came across who has good communication with their fans like to say that they are the best and that others are putting less effort, but I think I have finally found a developer who is honest in saying so. Hopefully this doesn't effect trope badly and he starts slaking off lol.

 

[Trope95]

I wonder why people count renders instead of focusing on action. I never count words when I read them. It doesn't make sense.

I, as a dev, count renders because it's work I did, and I'm a number nerd. I count words because it's what moves the story forward (and I wrote and translated them, so I also worked on them).

Going to the book example, readers want to know if the book they are purchasing is 200 pages or 900 pages long. Because of money, because of the time they will need to finish it, or because any other reason.
AVNs don't have "pages" and the only way to tell someone how big is an update (not the quality of it) is to give them those numbers.

Just trying to make sense of this lol I just checked the changelogs and the amount of content trope pushes in such short update frequency is kinda insane, the best I've ever seen (if I didn't read the changelogs incorrectly), maybe moonbox is near or better than this but I am not sure, still it's better to not count animation renders with the normal renders makes things kinda confusing.

Edit: I am talking about the number of still images and animations and not the total number of renders (including animation renders) because I can't compare that with other developers because they don't share that number.

I mean it's good that a developer is putting everything in the change logs, everyone should appreciate that and I appreciate that too, but in debates when you are trying to give a comparison between your work and others it's better to give it in (still renders + animations) format instead of the (total renders) format because one cannot compare total number of renders with other developers because most of them don't share that data.

I never compared myself with any other dev. How they count their work is of no importance to me; I don't care if no one uses that comparison first, "disrespecting" my work. I provide total numbers and separated numbers in every changelog.

More than a year ago, someone sent me another dev's numbers for a year and a half and compared them to My Dorm's in the same period. I don't care (even if it shed a good light on My Dorm). As I said several times, every dev has different circumstances, possibilities, hardware, and time, so comparing two devs' production is unnecessary and unwanted. It doesn't tell anything about how good a game is compared to other devs' games.

I read players saying that they have made their calculations, and 100 renders approximately equal to 5 minutes of playtime. I read it so many times that I think that calculation was made by a player and the other players think it's a correct calculation. Words are more reliable to check playing time (if people read and don't use CTRL, Skip, or Tab). Games with one render and five 15-word sentences can't be compared with games with five renders and five 7-word sentences. The second one, if you look at renders, seem bigger, but the first one (with the same quality of writing) is moving the story more.

Returning to the previous paragraph, comparing games (in quantity) doesn't make sense. And that's why I don't want to compare to any other dev. I give My Dorm's information without caring about how other devs provide theirs. If players want to compare it with other games' information, they should find a way to do it.

 

[johnpouljones]

From an accountability point of view, it's actually silly that nobody counts renders, animations, dialogue lines especially the ones who are paying for that particular project.

I think that the only honest metering of the developer's work is the time spent on the game. As you rent a professional to make you a fence, you do not settle his work on the number of nails stuck.

 

[xapican]

I am ok with either case lol but he did said others are putting that that and I am putting this, which isn't anything bad, almost every developers I came across who have good communication with their fans like to say that they are the best and that others are putting less effort, but I think I have finally found a developer who is honest in saying so. Hopefully this doesn't effect trope badly and he starts slaking off lol.

Even that you'll notice he will start talking more in this thread
by the way as far as I understood, he quoted a question,/ complaint where the person posting compared the games.

 

[Trope95]

Counting renders is almost as silly as measuring coders' productivity by lines of code anyway TBH.

Continuing your example, it's not the number of lines of code, it's the meaningfulness of those lines. A coder who writes 10,000 "pass" lines in a day is less productive than one who writes a working routine with 100 lines in the same time.

Ok, after reading this, I ask myself does Trope want to compare himself, with other Developers ?
Or does he just give us a heads up, about how much work he put into each update ?
Edit: not that you don't have a point in setting a standard to compare the content, but this failed by something so elemental as the Temperature, the lenght units, and so on .

You know I will never compare to other devs. There are full-time devs, and people who do this in the free time their jobs allow (I'm in the second group). There are developer teams with 10 people and single developers (second group for me). There are people who work natively in English and others who should write AND translate their games (once again, second group).

A comparison makes sense (if any) under the same circumstances. Since every dev has different circumstances, the comparison loses any logic.

From an accountability point of view, it's actually silly that nobody counts renders, animations, dialogue lines especially the ones who are paying for that particular project.

The players paying for the project want (mainly) a quantity of playing time respecting (or improving) the quality the game had when they subscribed. They (mainly) don't care about the number of words or renders. It's usually free players who care about it.

I am ok with either case lol but he did said others are putting that and I am putting this, which isn't anything bad, almost every developer I came across who has good communication with their fans like to say that they are the best and that others are putting less effort, but I think I have finally found a developer who is honest in saying so. Hopefully this doesn't effect trope badly and he starts slaking off lol.

I would never say I'm the best dev or that My Dorm is the best game. It's something subjective. My Dorm can be the best game out there for a player and a pile of crap for another.
I don't (and can't) know how many hours/day (or man-hours/day for bigger teams) other devs put in their games, and I don't care. So I can't talk about effort.

I don't even know how many hours I put in My Dorm. Should the hours spent talking with players count as development time? The hours browsing the Daz store to find that outfit that I need for a scene? Or only the hours spent writing dialogue, code, posing/rendering, translating, and testing? No easy answer.

 

[Negan22]

What "accountability"? If you're a Patreon you pay to support the dev, not for a certain amount of content.

It's not Universal, one can support the dev for whatever he has to offer and other can call out the dev for slacking (if they are slacking) and eventually cancel support and both are right in their own way or at least that's my opinion.

I think that the only honest extractor of the developer's work is the time spent on the game. As you rent a professional to make you a fence, you do not settle his work on the number of nails stuck.

But the number of nails stuck per day gives you an idea of how good of a work he is doing especially if you're paying per day/hour to him and not for the whole thing, here in my country a house builder will try to slack if you are paying him per day instead of contracting with him for the whole project so mostly people try to get a contract instead of paying on a daily basis.

In AVNs...

Braindrop is an example of pay per day and you can see how he is exploiting it.

And Luxee is an example of pay per project and I believe nobody should call him out for slacking for whatever reason because he isn't getting anything as long as he doesn't deliver (he charges per update, not Monthly).

 

[johnny0183]

Here you have it
View attachment 4962111
In the sentence you quoted, I was talking about 70,000 words and 20,000 renders (animations included, though).
Counting an animation that lasts for 15 seconds and has 450 frames as a single image isn't the same as counting a 2-frame animation as a single image, but that isn't the point.

I read a lot of changelogs and most devs say 1,000 stills and 25 animations (and don't say how many frames there are, so players don't know if it's 15 seconds or half a second). I try to be transparent with the work I do (and that's why my changelogs are detailed). I can tell you that a single animation has to be adjusted frame by frame, and, especially, has to be rendered, so I WOULD NEVER count them as a single image.

As the numbers lover you are I should have expected you to be able to put forth a spreadsheet with all this info.

 

[Trope95]

As the numbers lover you are I should have expected you to be able to put forth a spreadsheet with all this info.

I even formatted that spreadsheet with English month names to be able to post it

 

[johnpouljones]

I don't even know how many hours I put in My Dorm. Should the hours spent talking with players count as development time? The hours browsing the Daz store to find that outfit that I need for a scene? Or only the hours spent writing dialogue, code, posing/rendering, translating, and testing? No easy answer.

Trope, every moment counts. You are not just a graphic designer, programmer or writer. Your game is a system and you create it. Providing him with facilities, execution, distribution and marketing. And you are still talking to us. Thanks for that.

 

[johnny0183]

Trope, every moment counts. You are not just a graphic designer, programmer or writer. Your game is a system and you create it. Providing him with facilities, execution, distribution and marketing. And you are still talking to us. Thanks for that.

How do you know it's truly Trope talking to us? Could be a very advanced AI he developed so he has more time for developing his game ..
What if he also developed an AI for that and what the real Trope is really doing is tending to his cows on the farm?

 

[Trope95]

How do you know it's truly Trope talking to us? Could be a very advanced AI he developed so he has more time for developing his game ..
What if he also developed an AI for that and what the real Trope is really doing is tending to his cows on the farm?

I developed the AI in my free time after finishing My Dorm (I'm retaining the updates to buy a bigger farm) and writing a working plan for peace in the Middle East, a project for clean and cheap energy for everyone, and after colonizing Ganymede.
Well, the Ganymede colonization is on its way. I'm having some issues with the cows' adaptation to low gravity, but hell, cheap real estate.

In case anyone thinks the above is true, my code forces me to say it's only a joke. Ganymede isn't fit for farming. Beep, Beep.

 

[JJ1960]

How do you know it's truly Trope talking to us? Could be a very advanced AI he developed so he has more time for developing his game ..
What if he also developed an AI for that and what the real Trope is really doing is tending to his cows on the farm?

He's been found out.

 

[FatGiant]

I want to be clear, there's no bashing on anyone here:

- The Dev work isn't the renders. That's Computer time, it is a cost, both in energy, disk space and parts.
- Looking for the right clothes, the hours spent on writing and thinking about the story, talking it over to make it make sense, posing, adjusting lights, enhancing shadows, finding the best camera angle, redoing it, and again, no, not good yet, choosing nail polish, make up, posing the head again, a bit more of this, this, this is the Dev's work.
- Creating animations, or using a preset set, is Dev's work.
- Coding is Dev's work.
- Testing.
- Translating.
- Promoting.
- Networking.
- Thinking.
- All that is Dev's work.

There's no way to turn this into a spreadsheet. There's no way to measure Creative work. What can be a 5 minutes job, can also be a 2 hours one. Just try to write a dialogue when you're too tired and can only think of how comfortable your mattress is. Or do posings when your head is completely absorbed in how to write that bloody dialogue that is killing your vibe.

Sure, there may exist a need to compare the incomparable, but, how about we instead measure readers satisfaction? I think that is the fairer thing to do. How? I dunno... but instead of forcing objectivity on who does Creative work, force it on who's trying to do the comparisons.

Before you even reply, try to create ONE render in DAZ. Something that you'd be proud to display, not a rush job.

Spoiler: I did

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The amount of time it took to make that is simply ridiculous. Over 40 hours.

So, before you reply, try it.

Peace

 

[xapican]

But the number of nails stuck per day gives you an idea of how good of a work he is doing especially if you're paying per day/hour to him and not for the whole thing, here in my country a house builder will try to slack if you are paying him per day instead of contracting with him for the whole project so mostly people try to get a contract instead of paying on a daily basis.

He: Hello my dear, how did the worker do ?
She: fine I helped him nailing the whole day!
He: Hmmm... but the fence seems not to have advanced much since last I saw it!
She: Ooops ! you were talking about the fence !

 

[shawnnation]

is there mom and son vag anal sex and which one is the mom?

 

[xapican]

is there mom and son vag anal sex and which one is the mom?

Yes, and if you use the patch you'll find out, .....
Or ask some friendly "Marthian"...

 

[johnny0183]

Yes, and if you use the patch you'll find out, .....
Or ask some friendly "Marthian"...

Oh no, you summoned them

 

[blkcrow20]

 

[johnny0183]

Speak of the devil ...