88stanford88

Engaged Member
Aug 12, 2022
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Vivian's character is a classic illustrated commentry of modern-day 304 feminist women and their soulless, narcissist, self-interested, self-serving, entitled attitudes towards life, men, their boyfriends, their fiancees, husband's and their families.
Is this Vivian personality for you? Is this what you understand? Or are you talking in general about the feminism you mention here?
In my opinion, you have misunderstood the romantic relationship between Vivian and Hutch , who is also Sawyer's mother and therefore cannot be defined as a feminist.
What Vivian is doing to hutch is not out of love, she isn't trying to save or protect her husband, his job and their future, she is solely looking after herself. Within their realionship, their marriage vivian is the hypocritic that is living a lifestyle of double standards, "Dont do as I do Hutch, do as I say" and don't question me
Look, dude, the opinions are all respectable, but forgetting the context in which the story actually takes place reveals that you're talking about something rooted in certain cultures that justify wife-murder.

And you forget her Husband... She does what her husband tells her to do because he's the one who wants to save his job.
And it's Vivian herself who tries to convince her husband that it's a bad idea and something inappropriate could happen again.
This is the true Vivian.:
So, according to the script. NO! And this is not an opinion, because it is clearly written in the scene i posted.
Vivian is not a feminist... feminists don't get married and don't have children, they go to gay pride parades, get high taking pills, and they don't work as teachers...

Do you at least remember that Vivian has her own job?

Vivian is an example of a perfect human female who works and is married, just like my wife and my next-door neighbor.

The problem for many of you here is that you skip all the best scenes to get to the sex scenes and start masturbating imagining things that have nothing to do with reality in this very interesting story skillfully described by an excellent screenwriter.
----------------------------------
Only this following phrase is my opinion;
All of you who make these free allegations are only capable of following only the porn logic that lives in your cracked brains

Just my 2 cents
 
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noahsombrero

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2023
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Vivian's character is a classic illustrated commentry of modern-day 304 feminist women and their soulless, narcissist, self-interested, self-serving, entitled attitudes towards life, men, their boyfriends, their fiancees, husband's and their families.
What you mean is that this is what you think about feminism and you see Wife in that light.
Vivian only cares about Vivian and what benefits her long-term,
Sorry to hear you have had bad experiences with women. But you really have no grounds to say this about Wife, unless you disregard places in the game where SC shows what he actually thinks of her, her being human, her questioning herself, etc.
You saw none of that right?

You might grant that and say, but her human moments seem to have had no effect on her. Sure, welcome to humanity, my friend, where we all each and every one do exactly that. Regardless of such moments or life circumstances, wisdom is guaranteed to none of us. It is granted rarely though. The main purpose of such granting seems to be to show how fully, broadly, contemptuously the rest of us refuse to acknowledge it.
 
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noahsombrero

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You could for instance notice as I have that pic, where we see Wife with huge cleavage blazing, looking anxiously into a car window. One must wonder, has she become a street prostitute?

If that were at the end of chpt 5, I would be disturbed by this game. Hey SC, did you have something in mind here? But no, since we see (and we really don't know what it means at this point) that somewhere in chpt 3, I think we can be sure, even if my fear is correct, that is not the end of it. SC does have more in mind.

It could be that Wife's trick (prostitute customer) turns out to be Husband, who has turned to prostitutes because he wasn't getting sex anywhere else. So, they look at each other, sit down and *Have The Long Talk*. Maybe, you never know with SC.

Remember if you know a little US history, that President Jackson's wife was a former bar girl, which meant prostitute in his time. What that means is that prostitutes are not irredeemable, can still be decent people inside if you can put up for a time with their necessary defenses in their line of work. Defenses against the assholes they must deal with constantly.

I do understand that none of this would be possible in an Islamic culture. The entire story would not be possible.
 
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xert13

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Sep 24, 2023
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Vivian's character is a classic illustrated commentry of modern-day 304 feminist women and their soulless, narcissist, self-interested, self-serving, entitled attitudes towards life, men, their boyfriends, their fiancees, husband's and their families.

Vivian only cares about Vivian and what benefits her long-term, Vivian ( as she is currently doing) is quite prepared to burn her career, her marriage, and her family to the ground as long as she comes out on top, shinning like the polished turd that she is. The only thing that matter's to Vivian is her wants, her needs, her feeling's, her long-term goals and as her character has shown, she'll play the victim when called out but acts empowered when supposedly sexually objectified and or r%ped against her will

What Vivian is doing to hutch is not out of love, she isn't trying to save or protect her husband, his job and their future, she is solely looking after herself. Within their realionship, their marriage vivian is the hypocritic that is living a lifestyle of double standards, "Dont do as I do Hutch, do as I say" and don't question me

She lives by her own entitled delusional rules, she's thinks that she is so sexually liberated in everyway possibil, that she is free to do what she wants to do without any long term consequences, all while expecting Hutch to remain conservative and loyal to her as she f%&as all around her. Vivian ( not Christian) is the true manipulative sake/villian in the story, she is preparing to monkey branch to what ever wealthy option presents itself that helps her secure her luxury lifestyle.

When Vivian thought Hutch was going to loose his job, she hatches a plan, she lets on to work with her husband to help him, but double-backs and disrespects her husband and behind his back, she dresses like a school-girl slut ( not a professional lady) and approachs Christian on his own in the office ( this was deliberate). what Vivian was doing was very calculated, she was sending a non-verbally que to Christian stating,

"I'm here, it's just us in this large empty office, take me sexually Christian if you want, Im yours if you make a move",

But Christian dosent bite right away, he plays the non- clanent role. At the end of the meeting when vivian leant in for the kiss, Christian in his arrogance thought by sidestepping the attempt, that he was playing Vivian, what he dosent realise, is that the spider is weaving her web to trap him. Vivian is playing Christian as we later see with Christian who clearly couldn't get her out of his mind, sent her that dress, that she pushed under her bed. Christian took the bait but then Christian tells Hutch not to bring her to the first meeting, this is exactly what Vivian wanted, it now gave her the excuses to put that dress on and go anyway. If gives Christian the illusion that Vivian wants him for him and that he's the one in power but Vivian is about to spring her trap. In the back garden it's she's that intitates the sex as she later admits at the end of pt2. She's has Christian hooked, as women do by using their body's, their sexuality and sex to get their hooks in weak or arrogant men and sexually she is taking slow bites out of Christian one f&£k at a time, while simultaneously destroying Hutch.

In one teaser of chp3 we see the garden party, the new client that supposedly r#ped her, is there, he will be her new target, as he is a wealthy man that could do a lot of damage to Christian and his firm. Vivian will sexually manipulated him and possibly use him to destroy Christian
Certainly entitled to your opinion. Others have posted similar thoughts on this forum. After the first paragraph though, I thought you might be channeling some inner demons regarding women. Came across super misogynistic. Really do not think the Dev was trying to make a broader social commentary on Feminism. Besides, actual Feminists, in the traditional sense, would never let Christian manipulate and use them. Today, feminism to a large degree, is very anti-men. Think you were applying the wrong term to an inner hurt.
 

noahsombrero

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Aug 9, 2023
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Certainly entitled to your opinion. Others have posted similar thoughts on this forum. After the first paragraph though, I thought you might be channeling some inner demons regarding women. Came across super misogynistic. Really do not think the Dev was trying to make a broader social commentary on Feminism. Besides, actual Feminists, in the traditional sense, would never let Christian manipulate and use them. Today, feminism to a large degree, is very anti-men. Think you were applying the wrong term to an inner hurt.
Amen and amen.
 

noahsombrero

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Aug 9, 2023
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all she wants is the D from anyone she can get it from
I'm sorry to hear that you have had exposure only to women like you describe in your life. There being an equal amount of that type among men as among women. I'm not sure how you found such a concentration of women like that.

Boss, for instance, is one of those.
 

WhiteSwan1916

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Aug 18, 2023
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I played Chapter 2 after some initial hesitation, not because of any concerns over quality, I knew it was going to be good, but because the first time was a bit too hardcore for my taste. Gripping, extremely well produced, but just really harsh NTR content, probably the heaviest stuff in Western style AVN of this genre I have ever read.

In terms of quality the 2nd chapter did not disappoint. This is absolutely first-rate stuff (I will update my rating to 5/5). Both visually and more importantly the writing and storytelling. The emotional impact of Vivian hoping for and not getting the reassurance she needs from Hutch is keenly felt. Her fear of what she is doing to her marriage is palpable, and at the same time, her giving in is plausible. This is a story that I could not fast click, I had to read it all.

The 2nd chapter is not quite as brutal as the first one. It is still gripping and exciting, but there are a few mitigating factors: (1) this time the story closely follows Vivian's perspective which humanizes her a lot. (2) The conversation at the bar and night with Rebecca (Sunshine) and Brian (Rain) brought forward a lot of reflection that humanized Vivian. (3) The guilt and shame of letting herself be tricked (or allowing to be tricked) and the snide comments Vivian has to endure, from the hotel concierge, for example, made me sympathize with her. (4) The nightmare after the 'meeting' with Christian the first night, with my #1 favorite character in this AVN, Addison, in a role that I would have considered my dream ending of this story, at least before the heart-to-heart between Rebecca and Vivian which game me more hope for a happy ending through reconciliation.

I want to give the creator top marks for the character design. Especially Vivan has some bold choices. The short hair (I kind of agreed with the hotel concierge description to Mr. Reese, even though he was kind of a dick about it), and age-appropriate small wrinkles. She is not perfect, and really feels like a 45-year-old woman, very realistic. She is still sexy and beautiful in her own way, but she is also clearly not a hot young 9 or 10 in her prime like Addison, which Vivian acknowledges in her conversation to Hutch and is insecure about enough to become territorial! Vivian is aware of her age and to Christian feels compelled to counter that insecurity by praising her intellect. All of this this gives a great degree of realism and immersion.

The conversation with Rebecca was a particular strong point in writing. The way how both women discuss dynamics of dating from a woman's point of view, it felt real and reminded me of 'dual mating hypothesis' from the field of Evolutionary Psychology (even though the conversation is much more down to earth and real, not academic).

I can say this remains a top AVN on this site with the highest production values. The fact the author has made it free for all to enjoy is an added plus. It is a must read for fans of the genre.
 
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noahsombrero

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2023
1,137
465
191
I played Chapter 2 after some initial hesitation, not because of any concerns over quality, I knew it was going to be good, but because the first time was a bit too hardcore for my taste. Gripping, extremely well produced, but just really harsh NTR content, probably the heaviest stuff in Western style AVN of this genre I have ever read.

In terms of quality the 2nd chapter did not disappoint. This is absolutely first-rate stuff (I will update my rating to 5/5). Both visually and more importantly the writing and storytelling. The emotional impact of Vivian hoping for and not getting the reassurance she needs from Hutch is keenly felt. Her fear of what she is doing to her marriage is palpable, and at the same time, her giving in is plausible. This is a story that I could not fast click, I had to read it all.

The 2nd chapter is not quite as brutal as the first one. It is still gripping and exciting, but there are a few mitigating factors: (1) this time the story closely follows Vivian's perspective which humanizes her a lot. (2) The conversation at the bar and night with Rebecca (Sunshine) and Brian (Rain) brought forward a lot of reflection that humanized Vivian. (3) The guilt and shame of letting herself be tricked (or allowing to be tricked) and the snide comments Vivian has to endure, from the hotel concierge, for example, made me sympathize with her. (4) The nightmare after the 'meeting' with Christian the first night, with my #1 favorite character in this AVN, Addison, in a role that I would have considered my dream ending of this story, at least before the heart-to-heart between Rebecca and Vivian which game me more hope for a happy ending through reconciliation.

I want to give the creator top marks for the character design. Especially Vivan has some bold choices. The short hair (I kind of agreed with the hotel concierge description to Mr. Reese, even though he was kind of a dick about it), and age-appropriate small wrinkles. She is not perfect, and really feels like a 45-year-old woman, very realistic. She is still sexy and beautiful in her own way, but she is also clearly not a hot young 9 or 10 in her prime like Addison, which Vivian acknowledges in her conversation to Hutch and is insecure about enough to become territorial! Vivian is aware of her age and to Christian feels compelled to counter that insecurity by praising her intellect. All of this this gives a great degree of realism and immersion.

The conversation with Rebecca was a particular strong point in writing. The way how both women discuss dynamics of dating from a woman's point of view, it felt real and reminded me of 'dual mating hypothesis' from the field of Evolutionary Psychology (even though the conversation is much more down to earth and real, not academic).

I can say this remains a top AVN on this site with the highest production values. The fact the author has made it free for all to enjoy is an added plus. It is a must read for fans of the genre.
I love it when somebody gives a thoughtful analysis. Good job. I fully agree the ending of chpt 1 was too ugly for me too.
 
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DarkArchon

Member
May 9, 2017
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I played Chapter 2 after some initial hesitation, not because of any concerns over quality, I knew it was going to be good, but because the first time was a bit too hardcore for my taste. Gripping, extremely well produced, but just really harsh NTR content, probably the heaviest stuff in Western style AVN of this genre I have ever read.

In terms of quality the 2nd chapter did not disappoint. This is absolutely first-rate stuff (I will update my rating to 5/5). Both visually and more importantly the writing and storytelling. The emotional impact of Vivian hoping for and not getting the reassurance she needs from Hutch is keenly felt. Her fear of what she is doing to her marriage is palpable, and at the same time, her giving in is plausible. This is a story that I could not fast click, I had to read it all.

The 2nd chapter is not quite as brutal as the first one. It is still gripping and exciting, but there are a few mitigating factors: (1) this time the story closely follows Vivian's perspective which humanizes her a lot. (2) The conversation at the bar and night with Rebecca (Sunshine) and Brian (Rain) brought forward a lot of reflection that humanized Vivian. (3) The guilt and shame of letting herself be tricked (or allowing to be tricked) and the snide comments Vivian has to endure, from the hotel concierge, for example, made me sympathize with her. (4) The nightmare after the 'meeting' with Christian the first night, with my #1 favorite character in this AVN, Addison, in a role that I would have considered my dream ending of this story, at least before the heart-to-heart between Rebecca and Vivian which game me more hope for a happy ending through reconciliation.

I want to give the creator top marks for the character design. Especially Vivan has some bold choices. The short hair (I kind of agreed with the hotel concierge description to Mr. Reese, even though he was kind of a dick about it), and age-appropriate small wrinkles. She is not perfect, and really feels like a 45-year-old woman, very realistic. She is still sexy and beautiful in her own way, but she is also clearly not a hot young 9 or 10 in her prime like Addison, which Vivian acknowledges in her conversation to Hutch and is insecure about enough to become territorial! Vivian is aware of her age and to Christian feels compelled to counter that insecurity by praising her intellect. All of this this gives a great degree of realism and immersion.

The conversation with Rebecca was a particular strong point in writing. The way how both women discuss dynamics of dating from a woman's point of view, it felt real and reminded me of 'dual mating hypothesis' from the field of Evolutionary Psychology (even though the conversation is much more down to earth and real, not academic).

I can say this remains a top AVN on this site with the highest production values. The fact the author has made it free for all to enjoy is an added plus. It is a must read for fans of the genre.
I agree with much of what you say here, but I think I still have a dimmer view of Vivian than you. I believe she is tormented by what she is doing, but I still think she is a terrible wife, and she seems to be getting more comfortable with what she is doing. I think Christian's reassurance about her being able to compete with younger women was a manipulation on his part, even though he thinks she is attractive. I think the situation with Sunshine and Rain was the author's way of giving us more insight into what is going on with Vivian internally, which based on what you wrote here, I think you agree. I suspect any praise Christian gives her is a manipulation, even when there may be some merit in it.
 

noahsombrero

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Aug 9, 2023
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I agree with much of what you say here, but I think I still have a dimmer view of Vivian than you. I believe she is tormented by what she is doing, but I still think she is a terrible wife, and she seems to be getting more comfortable with what she is doing. I think Christian's reassurance about her being able to compete with younger women was a manipulation on his part
I agree that Boss is a purebread manipulator. But in this case, he says what any guy would say to any girl with whom he is in a sexual relationship. If he is smart.
, even though he thinks she is attractive. I think the situation with Sunshine and Rain was the author's way of giving us more insight into what is going on with Vivian internally, which based on what you wrote here, I think you agree. I suspect any praise Christian gives her is a manipulation, even when there may be some merit in it.
Much I agree with.

Terrible wife. I don't see you giving her credit for the 22 years she had with Husband before Boss came along and threw a nuclear bomb into the situation.

She is getting more comfortable with what she is doing. 1) the experience has changed her. 2) I know you would not give her credit for it, but I hear her when she says she hates herself. 3) the experience is in the process of changing her further. She very well might find herself not Husband's Wife in the next chapter. The situation is fluid. It is not fair to judge her now based on who she was when she first sat down with Husband to figure out what to do about his job. It could be that what she is doing might become acceptable if Husband abandons her. Even though Boss is a terrible candidate for a long term relationship for any woman.

It is true that what she is doing is beyond unfaithful. I also think that she has no idea how to resolve the conflicts in herself, in spite of how many here have no sympathy for her. But resolution must come one way or the other. How unwilling many are to be patient with her. What, be patient? She is a dirty rotten cheating whore. I guess my advice is, if that is what you think, be sure not to marry her.
 
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4.50 star(s) 193 Votes