VN Ren'Py Natsumi Love Story [v0.4.6] [Steradianfauns]

[JoeTheMC84]

I just replayed the game and was reminded of much of what I liked about it. It did remind me of one thing about Risa though; I had somehow missed her masturbation scene and then her boyfriend showing up. It adds to my thoughts about her status as a virgin and reminded me of how she is one thin ice. She broke up with the MC and that already got her on a short list of free tickets to "back-the-fuck-off" territory,

I think anyone who can't accept a girl they wanna fuck to potentially have been penis'd by someone else, abusive or not, is obnoxiously short sighted and very immature. For all you know, you could marry a woman who's been fucked by five other guys and you'd have no idea unless she brought it up.

You guys make me sick.

So, my preference in my *fantasy* makes me immature? Now do EVERY OTHER FUCKING FETISH. Don't want to see a love interest eat shit because you don't like Scat, "Grow up, you make me sick." Don't want a love interest murdered and her corpse raped, "grow up, its *just* necrophilia." Rather not see a dog fuck a girl, "come on, it's just bestiality... don't be immature..."

I get sick of you people who like their girls getting dicked down by others treating people who don't the way you do. Disliking any other type of content is fine, but god forbid a man like his FATANSY to be with a virgin, how "immature." Especially one where part of the whole point of the game is fighting NTR, having a girl love the MC, break up with him, fuck another guy, feel bad about it, realize she still love the MC, and come back to him, without the player having any say, isn't a good plan.

It's not even about *a* girl already having had sex, the mom clearly isn't a virgin, and no one gives two shits. But Risa should be. With everything the game has been so far and the way the story is going, yes Risa should be a virgin.

This isn't real life so my ability to be with a girl who isn't a virgin IRL has nothing to do with my fantasies in the games I play. Guess what, IRL you aren't going to bang your sister or mom, but you want that in games right? Fucking give me a break guy. And even in real life, no, I don't want my girl telling me about her sexual history so why would I want that in a fantasy, a game? A game where we have seen things happen from other points of view. We know the MC ends up with her and being forced to be with a girl who left us, which already puts my guard up about her and her quality as a person, isn't a good idea to me.

 

[MagnaSonic3000]

You know there's a simple solution if you don't like these types of games. Kindly go somewhere else. The dev has no obligation to anyone, last I checked these games are a creative process that the dev themselves has to enjoy. Otherwise you get half baked garbage with no inspiration. There's plenty of wholesome hand holding Christian games for you to enjoy, and if it turns out this isn't one of them, well I don't see why you're even here. You're lack of foresight also shows me you actually don't have any clue what I like, as no, I'm not a fan of NTR (except if it's Asuna, fuck SAO). However, I also play things like Rance, and other more gritty games where sometimes that happens, be it because the player fucked up, or the world is a complete shithole. Hell, sometimes the player gets to do the stealing.

So I don't know what crawled in your ass and made you somehow more important than the rest of us, but there's the door if you don't like it.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

You know there's a simple solution if you don't like these types of games. Kindly go somewhere else. The dev has no obligation to anyone, last I checked these games are a creative process that the dev themselves has to enjoy. Otherwise you get half baked garbage with no inspiration. There's plenty of wholesome hand holding Christian games for you to enjoy, and if it turns out this isn't one of them, well I don't see why you're even here. You're lack of foresight also shows me you actually don't have any clue what I like, as no, I'm not a fan of NTR (except if it's Asuna, fuck SAO). However, I also play things like Rance, and other more gritty games where sometimes that happens, be it because the player fucked up, or the world is a complete shithole. Hell, sometimes the player gets to do the stealing.

So I don't know what crawled in your ass and made you somehow more important than the rest of us, but there's the door if you don't like it.

I never said you liked NTR, but your answer seems to indicate that maybe you do. And what "crawled up my ass" was your sanctimonious post calling anyone who wants the game to uphold the promise made to the fans, immature. I'm tired of getting insulted for not liking a fetish. I dislike Necrophilia, scat, and bestiality and no one ever insults me for it. But I'd prefer a girl be a virgin and not want a love interest to get fucked by someone else and I get insulted. Then I just make a post asking if a game has NTR and it gets deleted, and I get called more names. I'm sick of the double standard that people who dislike NTR and enjoy virgins face every day on this site. This will probably get deleted too but oh well.

This game is billing itself as an anti-NTR game. So, yeah, it's not "creative or realistic" to add NTR in the game by having Risa get fucked by some other guy while a love interest. *YOU* can go play games that have all the non-virgins you want, and all the girls be sluts and stuff. I started this game and Life of the Pan Hero because they are good games and promise no NTR so I'll hold the developer to that.

 

[ugz2]

Or she's not a virgin and they've simply not had sex during the course of the game. The Risa situation was always a BSS/NTR scenario, it just technically happens before the game and isn't fetishized. I assume the developer sees it as "anti-NTR" because the main character will """take""" her back.

 

[telefonomusica]

Or she's not a virgin and they've simply not had sex during the course of the game. The Risa situation was always a BSS/NTR scenario, it just technically happens before the game and isn't fetishized. I assume the developer sees it as "anti-NTR" because the main character will """take""" her back.

It does happen in the timeframe of the game because you get to see the relationship develop, she is shown before and after choosing, if it was not shown it would be different, but you see her clearly interessed before and then the other guy takes her from you, that is already borderline NTR if she also had sex it just is NTR, there is no situation where they have sex before the game because the game shows when they meet, anything after is in the timeframe of the game,

the problem is not virginity itself it is when she lost it because the game shows the meeting and the relationship, if they do have sex it will be between the meeting and the current point in time, since the meeting happens in the game anyting after also appens in the game, so she already has status as LI, also MC is in love with her, and someone else having sex with her would be NTR, even if unwilling, rape is still NTR,

I do not know what BSS means and I probably dont care but the timeframe is in game so it counts, time frame is more than the present, if the game shows the past it becomes part of the timeline, even if you dont see the sex it has to appen in the period the game shows because the did not meet before, unless she just had sex with random peaple before but then there would be bigger problems.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[telefonomusica]

I think anyone who can't accept a girl they wanna fuck to potentially have been penis'd by someone else, abusive or not, is obnoxiously short sighted and very immature. For all you know, you could marry a woman who's been fucked by five other guys and you'd have no idea unless she brought it up.

You guys make me sick.

This is not a question of maturity it is personal taste, I will personally never understand why peaple find sexual experience attractive, it just disgusts me, but that is personal taste, also the problem here is not virginity it is the timeframe, I can accept a non virgin LI but she needs to already not be a virgin before she appears in the game, if she appears as a virgin and then loses it not to MC then it is NTR, mental purity is more important, still your comment is a direct insult to peaple, I often say I am disgusted by things but it is always referred to the topic, the fetish, never the peaple, so if you feel the need to offend someone just because they do not aggree with you or share your fetishes then maybe you are the immature one.

I ask for clarity, once enough information has been gathered if the game is not to my tastes I simply disapper, I just state my opinion and give general advice.

 

[SteradianFauns]

Alright guys, calm down.

TLDR: I'll make Risa's virginity an option.

I've been thinking about it, in the original storyline it was decided she wasn't a virgin, cause mc has sex with natsumi, why can't she has sex with her boyfriend. But then again some people made good points. I just never expected that some would be attached more attached to Risa than I expected to when she's still barely in the game.

Also, originally her being not a virgin was one of the thing that would be discussed between her, mc, and natsumi in Risa's chapter. And after you guys made good points about her virginity, I've been thinking how to write another discussion between the three characters that would still makes sense on her arc. And I just came up with one yesterday, it wasn't as fleshed out as the other one, but it's a start, so I think both option can be implemented.

The discussion between them obviously will be different, but it's still up to each players which one will be canon.

Also, just to make it clear, Risa and MC was never in a relationship, so there was no breakup. They were good friends, went on some dates, but Risa turn down MC's confession in the end. So Risa wasn't in love with MC, not yet anyway. And MC has totally move on from Risa to Natsumi, even before Natsumi jumped MC at the entrance.

If you want to know more about her storyline that you can kind of deduce from the subtext of the released version, here it is, spoiler alert.

She's basically conflicted, tired, and confused, she had a lot on her plates with school, housework, work, and her boyfriend. It's why she fantasize about MC on the extra chapter. It wasn't that she's in love with MC, she's fantasizing about a healthy relationship where she feels loved, and that's what she actually saw when she's looking at MC and Natsumi having sex, but since her mind is all over the place, she became confused. Especially during masturbation, I think it's harder for some people to think straight when they're horny.

Her boyfriend is one of those kind that seemed good when they're only dating but turn out to be controlling, and mentally abusive after they're in a relationship. And Risa is one of those kind that makes you wonder why the hell do they choose to stay in an abusive relationship.

And her storyline will basically talks about those stuff, how her bf changes (or showing his trueself), why she stays in the relationship, how mc and natsumi helps her get out of the relationship, and how eventually she joins the harem. Also delves into their past a little bit more, like why she choose her bf and not mc. But it won't be like Risa realize she's been in love with MC all along, or Risa falls in love with MC's dick cause it's better or bigger (if you choose the non virgin), or Risa falls in love with MC cause of the sex (if she's a virgin).


Also, regarding the realism in the game. It's true, that players want to play games to escape reality that's sucks. But I guess I just like adding realism to my writing so it feels more immersive(?) I don't know what's the word for it, but basically I still want the player to escape from reality, but into a better reality, so it's not like the player goes into a game where logic can be freely ignored.

 

[SteradianFauns]

Eh, but if you still got any complaints or feedback, give a shout, but be civil please. If you're not civil you're just gonna get an emotion out of me without getting your message across.

And I guess everyone NTR definition are a bit different, for me, it was getting cheated on, or seeing the love interest get fucked (or do any sexual stuff with other people) explicitly. Which will never be in any of my story or games. I think it also follows the definition of F95zone NTR? Which is Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.

But to me, this does not include between girl members of the harem. As I can't feel any jealousy when the girls of the harem do sexual stuff with each other, even when mc is not present. Though it still won't be written as cheating or stealing.

And maybe because I'm monogamous irl, so I kinda feel it's a bit unfair if the girls can only do stuff with mc but not with each other, and I can't imagine how tiring it is for MC to please so many girls, unless he has unlimited stamina and cum, which is already the case in my writing, but still, hard to wrap my head around it.
But any kind of yuri or girl-on-girl action like this will be skippable, and there won't be a lot of it, also most will just be kinda like an appetizer to a threesome between mc and both girls.

Edit : Also note that it's between harem members, meaning both girls are already fucked by mc before hand. Not any random girls that MC is not involved with.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

Alright guys, calm down.

TLDR: I'll make Risa's virginity an option.

I've been thinking about it, in the original storyline it was decided she wasn't a virgin, cause mc has sex with natsumi, why can't she has sex with her boyfriend. But then again some people made good points. I just never expected that some would be attached more attached to Risa than I expected to when she's still barely in the game.

Also, originally her being not a virgin was one of the thing that would be discussed between her, mc, and natsumi in Risa's chapter. And after you guys made good points about her virginity, I've been thinking how to write another discussion between the three characters that would still makes sense on her arc. And I just came up with one yesterday, it wasn't as fleshed out as the other one, but it's a start, so I think both option can be implemented.

The discussion between them obviously will be different, but it's still up to each players which one will be canon.

Also, just to make it clear, Risa and MC was never in a relationship, so there was no breakup. They were good friends, went on some dates, but Risa turn down MC's confession in the end. So Risa wasn't in love with MC, not yet anyway. And MC has totally move on from Risa to Natsumi, even before Natsumi jumped MC at the entrance.

If you want to know more about her storyline that you can kind of deduce from the subtext of the released version, here it is, spoiler alert.

She's basically conflicted, tired, and confused, she had a lot on her plates with school, housework, work, and her boyfriend. It's why she fantasize about MC on the extra chapter. It wasn't that she's in love with MC, she's fantasizing about a healthy relationship where she feels loved, and that's what she actually saw when she's looking at MC and Natsumi having sex, but since her mind is all over the place, she became confused. Especially during masturbation, I think it's harder for some people to think straight when they're horny.

Her boyfriend is one of those kind that seemed good when they're only dating but turn out to be controlling, and mentally abusive after they're in a relationship. And Risa is one of those kind that makes you wonder why the hell do they choose to stay in an abusive relationship.

And her storyline will basically talks about those stuff, how her bf changes (or showing his trueself), why she stays in the relationship, how mc and natsumi helps her get out of the relationship, and how eventually she joins the harem. Also delves into their past a little bit more, like why she choose her bf and not mc. But it won't be like Risa realize she's been in love with MC all along, or Risa falls in love with MC's dick cause it's better or bigger (if you choose the non virgin), or Risa falls in love with MC cause of the sex (if she's a virgin).


Also, regarding the realism in the game. It's true, that players want to play games to escape reality that's sucks. But I guess I just like adding realism to my writing so it feels more immersive(?) I don't know what's the word for it, but basically I still want the player to escape from reality, but into a better reality, so it's not like the player goes into a game where logic can be freely ignored.

Eh, but if you still got any complaints or feedback, give a shout, but be civil please. If you're not civil you're just gonna get an emotion out of me without getting your message across.

And I guess everyone NTR definition are a bit different, for me, it was getting cheated on, or seeing the love interest get fucked (or do any sexual stuff with other people) explicitly. Which will never be in any of my story or games. I think it also follows the definition of F95zone NTR? Which is Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.

But to me, this does not include between girl members of the harem. As I can't feel any jealousy when the girls of the harem do sexual stuff with each other, even when mc is not present. Though it still won't be written as cheating or stealing.

And maybe because I'm monogamous irl, so I kinda feel it's a bit unfair if the girls can only do stuff with mc but not with each other, and I can't imagine how tiring it is for MC to please so many girls, unless he has unlimited stamina and cum, which is already the case in my writing, but still, hard to wrap my head around it.
But any kind of yuri or girl-on-girl action like this will be skippable, and there won't be a lot of it, also most will just be kinda like an appetizer to a threesome between mc and both girls.

Edit : Also note that it's between harem members, meaning both girls are already fucked by mc before hand. Not any random girls that MC is not involved with.

I know my last two posts weren't the most civil, sorry about that and I hope you know none of the... irritation I guess? was directed at you. You've always been kind and up front and I would never want you to feel attacked or anything like that. I like your work a lot and enjoy both of your games. I just let my frustration boil over a bit, and I am sorry about that. I think what you said here is perfectly reasonable and a decent way to handle things.

 

[SteradianFauns]

I know my last two posts weren't the most civil, sorry about that and I hope you know none of the... irritation I guess? was directed at you. You've always been kind and up front and I would never want you to feel attacked or anything like that. I like your work a lot and enjoy both of your games. I just let my frustration boil over a bit, and I am sorry about that. I think what you said here is perfectly reasonable and a decent way to handle things.

Don't worry, I know it isn't directed at me and I didn't take it personally. And I still remember your support from before, so I still think highly of your opinion and appreciate any feedback.

 

[telefonomusica]

Alright guys, calm down.

TLDR: I'll make Risa's virginity an option.

I've been thinking about it, in the original storyline it was decided she wasn't a virgin, cause mc has sex with natsumi, why can't she has sex with her boyfriend. But then again some people made good points. I just never expected that some would be attached more attached to Risa than I expected to when she's still barely in the game.

Also, originally her being not a virgin was one of the thing that would be discussed between her, mc, and natsumi in Risa's chapter. And after you guys made good points about her virginity, I've been thinking how to write another discussion between the three characters that would still makes sense on her arc. And I just came up with one yesterday, it wasn't as fleshed out as the other one, but it's a start, so I think both option can be implemented.

The discussion between them obviously will be different, but it's still up to each players which one will be canon.

Also, just to make it clear, Risa and MC was never in a relationship, so there was no breakup. They were good friends, went on some dates, but Risa turn down MC's confession in the end. So Risa wasn't in love with MC, not yet anyway. And MC has totally move on from Risa to Natsumi, even before Natsumi jumped MC at the entrance.

If you want to know more about her storyline that you can kind of deduce from the subtext of the released version, here it is, spoiler alert.

She's basically conflicted, tired, and confused, she had a lot on her plates with school, housework, work, and her boyfriend. It's why she fantasize about MC on the extra chapter. It wasn't that she's in love with MC, she's fantasizing about a healthy relationship where she feels loved, and that's what she actually saw when she's looking at MC and Natsumi having sex, but since her mind is all over the place, she became confused. Especially during masturbation, I think it's harder for some people to think straight when they're horny.

Her boyfriend is one of those kind that seemed good when they're only dating but turn out to be controlling, and mentally abusive after they're in a relationship. And Risa is one of those kind that makes you wonder why the hell do they choose to stay in an abusive relationship.

And her storyline will basically talks about those stuff, how her bf changes (or showing his trueself), why she stays in the relationship, how mc and natsumi helps her get out of the relationship, and how eventually she joins the harem. Also delves into their past a little bit more, like why she choose her bf and not mc. But it won't be like Risa realize she's been in love with MC all along, or Risa falls in love with MC's dick cause it's better or bigger (if you choose the non virgin), or Risa falls in love with MC cause of the sex (if she's a virgin).


Also, regarding the realism in the game. It's true, that players want to play games to escape reality that's sucks. But I guess I just like adding realism to my writing so it feels more immersive(?) I don't know what's the word for it, but basically I still want the player to escape from reality, but into a better reality, so it's not like the player goes into a game where logic can be freely ignored.

I am happy to hear you have found an acceptable solution, the main problem was not the virginity itself but the way she lost it, also it really is not a question of attachement either, the point is that the story is already set, in other games you would be able to avoid a LI if you do not like her, Risa is not avoidable, she joins the harem it is scripted to appen so the choice is just to play the game or not, regarding her introduction maybe it was just inexperience in writing but it felt like she really liked MC and he also was not over her, also many scenes do not make sense if you say she does not actually love him.

Regarding the war against NTR, if you want to pursue that you need to be carefull not to cross the line, and Risa would have been crossing the line, the problem is that many peaple have different definitions of it, and this site really does not have a good way to recognize the version in a game, to me if Risa has sex with her boyfriend it absolutely is NTR, very bad too since it would be unavoidable, others could argue that is not the case but that would not change my opinion.

Realism is also a delicate point, of course completely disregarding it would make for a fever dream where anything can happen but too much can only hurt, a more important thing would be consistence, a very good exeample of this is monster hunter, realism is not really the point but it is consistent they have an ecosistem and sience consistent with itself, it makes the world feel alive but still fantasical, for porn games usually the story is secondary but honestly if the story is not good enough I personally cannot play them, I search more for romance than porn so it is especially important that the interactions and the characters are not tainted by NTR or too much promisquity, it could be unrealistic for everyone to be a virgin but despite what many peaple insinuate there are not many games that actually fit with my tastes because of this realism, so it is good to see someone at least aknowledge that not everyone wants realism, sluts are everiwhere in porn games, it is the truly romantic ones that are rare.

In the end I whish you luck in your endeavors, I will be waiting for the next chapters.

 

[telefonomusica]

Eh, but if you still got any complaints or feedback, give a shout, but be civil please. If you're not civil you're just gonna get an emotion out of me without getting your message across.

And I guess everyone NTR definition are a bit different, for me, it was getting cheated on, or seeing the love interest get fucked (or do any sexual stuff with other people) explicitly. Which will never be in any of my story or games. I think it also follows the definition of F95zone NTR? Which is Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.

But to me, this does not include between girl members of the harem. As I can't feel any jealousy when the girls of the harem do sexual stuff with each other, even when mc is not present. Though it still won't be written as cheating or stealing.

And maybe because I'm monogamous irl, so I kinda feel it's a bit unfair if the girls can only do stuff with mc but not with each other, and I can't imagine how tiring it is for MC to please so many girls, unless he has unlimited stamina and cum, which is already the case in my writing, but still, hard to wrap my head around it.
But any kind of yuri or girl-on-girl action like this will be skippable, and there won't be a lot of it, also most will just be kinda like an appetizer to a threesome between mc and both girls.

Edit : Also note that it's between harem members, meaning both girls are already fucked by mc before hand. Not any random girls that MC is not involved with.

I never offend peaple only fetshes, my comments are meant to bring clarity,

on that topic the definition of NTR on the site is often misused, to me personally any kind of sexual interaction between the LI and not MC in the timeframe of the game is NTR, that does not include harem members, I have no problem with the girls interacting with each other, it is part of the harem dinamics, but anything else, even only implied, will forever taint the game, and many peaple would aggree with me.

I apologise if my comments where offensive, I did not mean to but tone does not carry in text form, I only hope this to be a learning experience and that you will be more carefull in the future, I aggree with others about your honesty, you at least dont try to hide NTR behind exuses, you cannot be allknowing, as long as you are clear in your intent I will not have problems with you, if I disaggree I will simply disapper, I only want clarity not change, but am happy when it appens.

Good luck.

 

[SteradianFauns]

I am happy to hear you have found an acceptable solution, the main problem was not the virginity itself but the way she lost it, also it really is not a question of attachement either, the point is that the story is already set, in other games you would be able to avoid a LI if you do not like her, Risa is not avoidable, she joins the harem it is scripted to appen so the choice is just to play the game or not, regarding her introduction maybe it was just inexperience in writing but it felt like she really liked MC and he also was not over her, also many scenes do not make sense if you say she does not actually love him.

Regarding the war against NTR, if you want to pursue that you need to be carefull not to cross the line, and Risa would have been crossing the line, the problem is that many peaple have different definitions of it, and this site really does not have a good way to recognize the version in a game, to me if Risa has sex with her boyfriend it absolutely is NTR, very bad too since it would be unavoidable, others could argue that is not the case but that would not change my opinion.

Realism is also a delicate point, of course completely disregarding it would make for a fever dream where anything can happen but too much can only hurt, a more important thing would be consistence, a very good exeample of this is monster hunter, realism is not really the point but it is consistent they have an ecosistem and sience consistent with itself, it makes the world feel alive but still fantasical, for porn games usually the story is secondary but honestly if the story is not good enough I personally cannot play them, I search more for romance than porn so it is especially important that the interactions and the characters are not tainted by NTR or too much promisquity, it could be unrealistic for everyone to be a virgin but despite what many peaple insinuate there are not many games that actually fit with my tastes because of this realism, so it is good to see someone at least aknowledge that not everyone wants realism, sluts are everiwhere in porn games, it is the truly romantic ones that are rare.

In the end I whish you luck in your endeavors, I will be waiting for the next chapters.

Thanks for the feedback!
But can you elaborate which scenes that does not make sense if Risa didn't love MC? I think I always written it in a way that Risa only consider MC as a good friend that she's comfortable with.

And the way MC thinks about her during her introduction, it's not that MC is not over her, but he's not over the fact that she choose someone that he feels is worse than him. It gave MC a bit of insecurity about himself, he's thinking, "If she's choosing the other guy, does that mean I'm worse than the other guy?". His resentment is more to the guy rather than Risa.

He never talked about this to Risa, so he never find closure in that, which makes it seems like he's not over her, but he's just not over that fact. He was already in love with Natsumi before Natsumi jumped him, but he never admitted it to himself and denying it cause he's afraid to lose Natsumi if she didn't feel the same way. Because he lost Risa when he confessed to Risa, so he's afraid it will happen to Natsumi as well.

Though a lot of this are written as subtext, I was learning how to write subtext and foreshadowing when I start writing Natsumi Love Story, so lots of subtext in the first few chapters, even the reason Natsumi became a Yandere is already in the subtext.
But a lot of those will be talked about in the future chapters as well, so it'll be come clear.

 

[telefonomusica]

Thanks for the feedback!
But can you elaborate which scenes that does not make sense if Risa didn't love MC? I think I always written it in a way that Risa only consider MC as a good friend that she's comfortable with.

And the way MC thinks about her during her introduction, it's not that MC is not over her, but he's not over the fact that she choose someone that he feels is worse than him. It gave MC a bit of insecurity about himself, he's thinking, "If she's choosing the other guy, does that mean I'm worse than the other guy?". His resentment is more to the guy rather than Risa.

He never talked about this to Risa, so he never find closure in that, which makes it seems like he's not over her, but he's just not over that fact. He was already in love with Natsumi before Natsumi jumped him, but he never admitted it to himself and denying it cause he's afraid to lose Natsumi if she didn't feel the same way. Because he lost Risa when he confessed to Risa, so he's afraid it will happen to Natsumi as well.

Though a lot of this are written as subtext, I was learning how to write subtext and foreshadowing when I start writing Natsumi Love Story, so lots of subtext in the first few chapters, even the reason Natsumi became a Yandere is already in the subtext.
But a lot of those will be talked about in the future chapters as well, so it'll be come clear.

I am sorry but I have not played the start in a long time so I do not remember the specific scenes, subtext is hard so I dont blame you, also I apologise in advance for the following but the way you describe the relationship with Risa sounds like the definition of NTR, the jeaolousy and the feelings of inferiority are exactly what NTR is about so maybe the story was flawed from the start, still some clarification could help, maybe an internal monologue, still it can be saved by making her still a virgin, to me at least, the alternative is by no means a bad story, it has its merits and a different message, it just is not for me, I do remember that Risa is trying to give MC something on valentines day and that is how she finds him with Natsumi, that is not something a friend does, it usually shows clear interest, also maybe guilt but that is the main factor.

I already said what I feel about NTR and honestly this was too close from the start, experience is a good teacher and I am sure you will get better at subtext, for now I just had this felling but maybe after the next update it will be clearer, I do not mind spoilers if it means avoiding similar situations, so if there are more ambiguos LIs I would also like to know, maybe my opinion will help in getting the right message across.

With this I have to go, I will have to gve a better answer in the future.

P.S. sorry for the wall of text.

 

[SteradianFauns]

I am sorry but I have not played the start in a long time so I do not remember the specific scenes, subtext is hard so I dont blame you, also I apologise in advance for the following but the way you describe the relationship with Risa sounds like the definition of NTR, the jeaolousy and the feelings of inferiority are exactly what NTR is about so maybe the story was flawed from the start, still some clarification could help, maybe an internal monologue, still it can be saved by making her still a virgin, to me at least, the alternative is by no means a bad story, it has its merits and a different message, it just is not for me, I do remember that Risa is trying to give MC something on valentines day and that is how she finds him with Natsumi, that is not something a friend does, it usually shows clear interest, also maybe guilt but that is the main factor.

I already said what I feel about NTR and honestly this was too close from the start, experience is a good teacher and I am sure you will get better at subtext, for now I just had this felling but maybe after the next update it will be clearer, I do not mind spoilers if it means avoiding similar situations, so if there are more ambiguos LIs I would also like to know, maybe my opinion will help in getting the right message across.

With this I have to go, I will have to gve a better answer in the future.

P.S. sorry for the wall of text.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. But it's not jealousy, not inferiority either. MC actually thought he's a better person than Risa's bf, which is why he can't grasp why Risa chose the other guy and can't get over that fact. He became a bit insecure afterwards and second doubt himself, but not in a way that's turning him into a cuckold.

He wasn't thinking, "Okay, so Risa's bf is better than me, I'll just accept that.", but he was thinking "What the hell, why is she choosing him? Does that mean I'm worse than him? But I've seen how he is, I know he is not better than me, I won't accept that." But he never actually got the answer cause he never confront Risa about it, and that's what making him second doubt himself, but also not in a way that "Okay, so I'm worthless and not worthy of love, so be it.", but in a way of "If I'm not worthy, then I make myself worthy.", which is what he said to Natsumi when they confessed to each other.

As for the valentine, Risa actually said it's just a obligatory chocolate (or friendship chocolate, which is a thing in Japan, and does not mean romantic interest), it's partly because of guilt, partly because she's missing her good friend.

 

[telefonomusica]

Okay, thanks for the explanation. But it's not jealousy, not inferiority either. MC actually thought he's a better person than Risa's bf, which is why he can't grasp why Risa chose the other guy and can't get over that fact. He became a bit insecure afterwards and second doubt himself, but not in a way that's turning him into a cuckold.

He wasn't thinking, "Okay, so Risa's bf is better than me, I'll just accept that.", but he was thinking "What the hell, why is she choosing him? Does that mean I'm worse than him? But I've seen how he is, I know he is not better than me, I won't accept that." But he never actually got the answer cause he never confront Risa about it, and that's what making him second doubt himself, but also not in a way that "Okay, so I'm worthless and not worthy of love, so be it.", but in a way of "If I'm not worthy, then I make myself worthy.", which is what he said to Natsumi when they confessed to each other.

As for the valentine, Risa actually said it's just a obligatory chocolate (or friendship chocolate, which is a thing in Japan, and does not mean romantic interest), it's partly because of guilt, partly because she's missing her good friend.

Sadly jealousy is still jealousy, it still feels strange to put that entire situation in a game against NTR, it is still too similar, at least if she is still a virgin I can consider it just a mistake on her part, also I remembered that in the way it was presented they confessed at the same time and she felt pressured to make a choice, also it felt like the other guy did it specifically because he wanted to take her away from MC, the frienship chocolate I am fairly sure are from male friends, or at least I have never seen a girl give them to a guy, also if that is the case she sould not be ashamed of it in front of the boyfriend.

In my opinion the sooner this situation resolves the better, it is your game so mine is just advice but the whole thing just sends a bad message, which could not be your intention, it does not make the story more interesting, in fact if she is a virgin she is a much more interesting character because she did not make the same mistake a lot of other peaple made, the fact that you can see where the story goes only makes it feel bad because unlike the other girls she is effectively out of reach untill the boyfriend is there, so you cannot avoid it, of course this is just personal opinion.

I think options should be put in every game, so I am happy you are willing to compromise, this genre of games, harem games specifically tends to attract certain peaple, and those peaple do not like other guys in the game, or at least near LIs.

On a different note I am curios about her hair color but it will probably be explained later.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

(edited for clarity, I am tired and probably missed some things.)

 

[JoeTheMC84]

As for the valentine, Risa actually said it's just a obligatory chocolate (or friendship chocolate, which is a thing in Japan, and does not mean romantic interest), it's partly because of guilt, partly because she's missing her good friend.

That is for sure a thing people from other cultures could miss, . After a certain age, perhaps 12 at the oldest, a girl usually doesn't give a Valentine gift to a guy unless she likes him. Outside of giving gifts to family, most people don't give Valentine gifts to people they aren't romantically interested in, it can easily send mixed signals.

It seems that because of my culture, I took that scene to mean she liked the MC, and she was trying to justify to herself that she "didn't really like him." Meaning, she was lying to herself. Especially when she hides the chocolate and lies to her boyfriend, which made me think she knew that if she had given it to the MC, he would take it as romantic, and she still wanted to do it anyway before being interrupted. To me all of Risa's scenes felt like they were just her trying to lie to herself. Trying to convince herself that she didn't love the MC when she did. And maybe it is just me, but I have also never masturbated while thinking of a person I wasn't sexually interested in, so her thinking of the MC and then explaining it away, again, sounded like she was just in deep, long held, denial.

Also, Risa and the MC being friends in the flashback made me think she picked the other guy because she was worried that starting an official relationship with the MC would ruin their friendship, not because she didn't like him, more like she was scared. And now, seeing that not only did she end up with a jerk and not a great guy like the MC, but she also lost his friendship, well, it just makes it harder on her. Perhaps it is another cultural miscommunication, but where I am from if you go on a few dates, you are dating. I know that "confessing" is a thing in Japan, but in my mind, they had already been on dates, so his confession was just a formality. So, the MC officially "confessed," which is when she "broke up with him" in my mind because they were already unofficially dating, and he confessed to make it official but then she left him. But that may have been me miss reading the signs it seems.

Then, of course, seeing Risa with the MC in the future adds to the idea that she had feelings for him well before getting back with him. Knowing she would get back with him eventually no matter what made me try and look for things to redeem her, to better understand why she made the choices she did and hurt the MC the way she did, when in my mind, she had to love the MC back then because they end up together. Because, as it stands, it would be hard for me to forgive all she did. I defended her when others thought she might be the one who told the villain about Nat and the MC banging in the school, so you know I like Risa and want to see her redemption.

This is why I am very happy you will make it possible to have her be a virgin. This will 100% redeem her to me, that she kept herself for the one she always loved deep down (which was how I had seen all those scenes with her). So, all this is just me thinking out loud in a way. Talking about the ways in which it seems that some of what was show was misinterpreted by me and lead to such strong feelings regarding her and her status. Much of it seems to have come from cultural differences.

 

[telefonomusica]

That is for sure a thing people from other cultures could miss, . After a certain age, perhaps 12 at the oldest, a girl usually doesn't give a Valentine gift to a guy unless she likes him. Outside of giving gifts to family, most people don't give Valentine gifts to people they aren't romantically interested in, it can easily send mixed signals.

It seems that because of my culture, I took that scene to mean she liked the MC, and she was trying to justify to herself that she "didn't really like him." Meaning, she was lying to herself. Especially when she hides the chocolate and lies to her boyfriend, which made me think she knew that if she had given it to the MC, he would take it as romantic, and she still wanted to do it anyway before being interrupted. To me all of Risa's scenes felt like they were just her trying to lie to herself. Trying to convince herself that she didn't love the MC when she did. And maybe it is just me, but I have also never masturbated while thinking of a person I wasn't sexually interested in, so her thinking of the MC and then explaining it away, again, sounded like she was just in deep, long held, denial.

Also, Risa and the MC being friends in the flashback made me think she picked the other guy because she was worried that starting an official relationship with the MC would ruin their friendship, not because she didn't like him, more like she was scared. And now, seeing that not only did she end up with a jerk and not a great guy like the MC, but she also lost his friendship, well, it just makes it harder on her. Perhaps it is another cultural miscommunication, but where I am from if you go on a few dates, you are dating. I know that "confessing" is a thing in Japan, but in my mind, they had already been on dates, so his confession was just a formality. So, the MC officially "confessed," which is when she "broke up with him" in my mind because they were already unofficially dating, and he confessed to make it official but then she left him. But that may have been me miss reading the signs it seems.

Then, of course, seeing Risa with the MC in the future adds to the idea that she had feelings for him well before getting back with him. Knowing she would get back with him eventually no matter what made me try and look for things to redeem her, to better understand why she made the choices she did and hurt the MC the way she did, when in my mind, she had to love the MC back then because they end up together. Because, as it stands, it would be hard for me to forgive all she did. I defended her when others thought she might be the one who told the villain about Nat and the MC banging in the school, so you know I like Risa and want to see her redemption.

This is why I am very happy you will make it possible to have her be a virgin. This will 100% redeem her to me, that she kept herself for the one she always loved deep down (which was how I had seen all those scenes with her). So, all this is just me thinking out loud in a way. Talking about the ways in which it seems that some of what was show was misinterpreted by me and lead to such strong feelings regarding her and her status. Much of it seems to have come from cultural differences.

This is exacly what I felt too, you just wrote it better, all of this is exactly how reading the story made me feel, overall Risa does not seem like just a friend, she feels completely in denaial, there are too many instances of her being conflicted for her not having feelings for MC already, also if they had already been dating it means she cheated on him with the other guy or just left out of the blue.

Sorry to the dev but the way you wrote her Risa seems in denial, subtext is hard but the story clearly leans more to that now, also the dating issue is another problem, because if she was dating them at the same time that is absolutely NTR and needs to be fixed.

You dont go on dates with someone you dont like romantically, and this makes it seem even more that the other guy does not even like her, he just wanted to take her away from MC.

The frienship chocolate are a tradition I knew from other games, but they alwys came from male friends, they are like a pity gift if you did not get any from girls, or at least that is how the are prtrayed.

(Edited for clarity)

 

[GrogGuy]

I did bring up that MILFs and married women would obviously be exceptions as the story would demand. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. And in many ways you prove my point. As a non-virgin lover you are perfectly happy either way, as long as it isn’t done in a silly manner. A virgin lover would not feel that way. They don’t want what they consider “sloppy seconds,” regardless of her reasons (MILFs often excepted) and will abandon a character if she isn’t one, maybe even the whole game if there aren’t any virgins worth playing for.

I understand that, and I'm not dissing the fetish itself. I don't particularly mind whatever preferences people have, although I do eye roll a bit when people get too pushy about their fetishes and try to heavily sway how the game is developed when half or more of them probably don't even support the dev. That's not directed at you by the way, just a general pet-peeve of mine.

My original point, which I may have poorly articulated, is that I don't think devs should always shy away from having non-virgin characters if they think it fits the character or suits the backstory.

E.g. There could be a character who is in a happy relationship but their significant other dies during the course of the story. The MC could help them slowly get over their heartbreak and something could start budding between them.

I'm not a good writer, but I think that's a decent start for an interesting character where it makes sense that they've had experience, and it doesn't fit into either MILF or Married category. If a dev is too afraid to experiment with interesting characters because they're trying to please everyone, then there's the potential to end up with a boring story. I'm speaking generally, not just for this particular fetish.

I just don't like the thought of the dev thinking they can't ever experiment with different topics because they need to please everyone. Pleasing everyone is impossible anyway.

But to address the point about the story and things becoming boring. Boring writing and story can go both ways. I find myself getting bored of the cliché ”steal the girl” stereotype that is copy pasted from so many games. And of many girls in games constantly declaring “it’s been so long,” or “you’re so much bigger,” or “no one is as good as you.”

No arguments from me here. It can definitely be done in a boring way.

There is a quote from another game that always comes to mind when this topic comes up that I feel sums up the mindset I have. An insecure virgin girl asked the MC if guys preferred girls with experience. The MC says, “Some do. But not me. Experienced girls know what other guys like. I get to teach a virgin what I like.” An experienced girl comes preloaded with baggage, and for a drama game that’s fine. As well as carrying her own fetishes and what she likes and doesn’t. A virgin character can still have some baggage if needed (see below) but can learn what she likes as the game goes on, experiencing things for the first time and not commenting on how good or bad the MC is compared to her last guy.

Nothing really to say regarding this.

Many games fall prey to over sexualizing everything. For example, a girl has an abusive past, well it must be sexual, not just physical or emotional. A girl’s boyfriend is a dick, well it’s because he’s bored of her sexual or cheats on her, and not perhaps because she is refusing to have sex even after what he deemed “enough time.” A slut that must be “redeemed or rescued.”

Agreed, I see it often and it's usually poorly done. That said, I think the same is true for the whole virgin first time in love theme. Tons of games have a whole cast of characters who near instantly fall in love with the MC despite apparently never having had any interest in romance or sex before. Suddenly the MC swings in, and everyone drops their pants and starts talking about how special he is and that they've never felt this way before but he's the special one, etc, etc.

It's not just a problem of virginity, and I'm not trying to steer it that way. The issue is that devs see a few "archetypes" that people are particularly vocal about liking, and then you get a bunch of games with the same cardboard cutout characters. I just would prefer not to stifle a developer's creativity too much by leading them into thinking they have to force all their characters into little fetish check-boxes.

Those tropes can have a place, true, but they aren’t “more realistic,” or “less boring,” than a nineteen year old character being a virgin. In fact most girls under twenty globally are virgins. It is only in certain city centers of some cultures that this isn’t the case. The early twenty virgin is the majority. Even if they have been dating for months most girls will wait, and when they don’t it is usually because of outside pressure.

On an individual level, sure I guess. The unrealistic / boring part isn't having virgin characters, but it can be the absolute absence of any non-virgins. It's about having too many characters that are too similar overall. That doesn't mean a game HAS to have a character who's had sex previously, but too much character conformity in general leads to boring, and trying too hard to please a certain demographic will probably lead to that aforementioned character conformity.

I'm not well versed on the percentages of people who are virgins at any given age, or the psychological / sociological reasons for why those people stay virgins, and honestly I don't really care to look into it, so I'll take your word for it. I wasn't trying to say most young adults have lost their virginity anyway.

The worst of all to me is the trope of the girl who “always loved the MC and still does, and wished she could have been with him.” But she never made a move and then couldn’t stand to wait a few months or a year to lose her virginity to someone else. “I love you so much, but after graduating and summer break I just had to lose my virginity, oh, if only I had known that we would be in the same town a month later! It was so terrible, I thought of you and wished it had been you.” It’s tired and silly.

I don't particularly like the trope either. It's not the one that bothers me most, but we're generally in agreement.

I have known beautiful women who were virgins well into their twenties, and ugly girls who lost it at fourteen. And vice versa. Neither is more “compelling,” or “realistic,” it all comes down to the story and how well the writer can do it justice. And erring on the side of virginity when there isn’t already a stance will draw people in (which was why I posted my previous post, it seems that a girl’s virginity will be decided by poll, which I think is rather odd), while taking a stance the other way adds nothing inherently and can drive some people away.

I already said everything I wanted to say regarding this a bit above, and it seems the issue is settled by the dev regardless.

Anyway, interesting discussion and all.

 

[MagnaSonic3000]

I don't wanna get too heated seeing as how it's completely impossible for me to get through to some people, but I just wanna chime in before I just put this to bed. The idea of this game being fantastical at all and isn't realistic... is entirely false. Aside from the haha anime moments and the literal dive into Natsumi's own head, everything in the game is entirely possible in the real world.

>Risa being plowed before she realized maybe it was better being with the guy who wanted her first? A lot of women can go through this.
>MC "marrying off" his sister so he can keep fucking her? A little complex, and probably not worth it, but you can totally do a marriage by proxy so no one ever finds out you're fucking you're siblings. Should you? Probably not, but it's not impossible.
>A more realistic portrayal of a girl's love making her a little... weird? Yeah, especially with young girls, sometimes girls get intense jealousy, or act really loopy around someone if they've never been in love before. The more violent side of it is also possible, but probably not to the degree anime makes you believe.
>Some asshole trying to steal yo girl? Boy infidelity is probably the most likely thing that'll happen to you in this world. It's a sad fact, and far from impossible.

Anyway, that's it, I'm tired of playing ring around the rosey. Be happy, be angry, whatever. Just know I'm phasing myself out of this argument in favor of just waiting for the story to finish.