VN Ren'Py Nephilim [v0.5.3] [BuuPlays]

[Krytax123]

There's literally no indication that he didn't go all out and he hasn't used the laser eyes since the beginning of the game and rellies way more on wind magic. Imo this is a bunch of cope, he get knocked flying early on in the start and onyx gets disable then literally gets a fatal wound that he only managed to survived because he absored the heal crystals then after getting back up he gets frozen into a solid block of ice.

The dude lost and there was no real indication that he was ever holding back. Mc literally says in his own words that Diana is stronger than he is. The whole point of the character is that she's supposed to be around his level so after this arc is done he gets a powerful ally/sparing partner since he outclasses everyone else in his circle.




She only left her village and joined the assasain group because it gave her a chance to travel and look for the mc again. Idk imo I'm not really interested in Rin at all. She's the same as the other LI if not worse.



Because he did lost. Like I said above she delivers a fatal blow to him twice and he only gets back up because of his regen abilities and even then he was out for a good 30 seconds each time. Then in the final bout they knock each other out.

Essentially he lost twice and then had a managed to get a draw in the last round.

It makes no sense for the mc to say "she's stronger than me" only for that statement to not be true and argue he's holding back. Mc hasn't used laser eyes because the dev forgot about them and hasn't used them since like chapter 2.

I dont get why youre so hellbent to make this point when its obviously wrong. Not even talking about that him losing would actually prove my original point even more.

Here a few examples for you from the fight:

Spoiler: MC Admiral fight

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And this one is before their very last clash before you trying to argue that he only said anything like that in the beginning.



So nah, youre interpretation/memorys of the event are simply wrong. Youre quotation of him saying that shes stronger is wrong too, he never said that.

The only thing he said is that she bested him in quite a few of their clashes (while he was holding back very obviously).

His eyes never switched to the blight blue or red eye colour either which is usually his serious-mode

 

[Dessolos]

so he only went all out for 1 attack thanks for this render proof he was holding back kind of what I thought just didn't realize it was said in the dialogue

 

[storm1051787]

So nah, youre interpretation/memorys of the event are simply wrong. Youre quotation of him saying that shes stronger is wrong too, he never said that.

He literally says she's stronger than him

Here a few examples for you from the fight:

I don't really think any of these statements imply he's holding back. Just that he was never going for the kill. Saying "I can't hold back with this attack" doesn't suggest that he was holding back and pulling his punches the entire fighting. Just that he wasn't trying to do anything like stab her in the gut

 

[Krytax123]

He literally says she's stronger than him View attachment 4714638

Okay seems like i didnt replayed it long enough just now. Its kinda a flawed premise to not count his regenerative ability tho and even more when he falls back on it and never really gives his all because he will just be able to stand up again lol

Im not really sure what to make out of that, shes for sure the more skilled combatant tho lol

Doubtfull the mc himself even knows how strong he is at the moment if he would be fully unleashed

My initial initial statement (him being overconfident) was incorrect tho, as he was holding back because he couldnt afford to kill her (officially because shes royal marine, inoffical because we have to bang) but he still was holding back.

 

[justin.case]

Because he did lost. Like I said above she delivers a fatal blow to him twice and he only gets back up because of his regen abilities and even then he was out for a good 30 seconds each time. Then in the final bout they knock each other out.

Essentially he lost twice and then had a managed to get a draw in the last round.

Dude, that's like saying he lost because he should be drown but he did not because he used his ability to walk on water. Regeneration is an ability of his, so just because he used it does not mean he lost.

Also, she was fighting to kill at least incapacitate while he was holding back because she is an admiral of the king he has loyalty of.

I need to recheck how it ended because as far as I remember, he kinda pulled a trick and won but because he overextended himself and passed out of exhaustion. Even if I misremembered and you are right, that's a draw not lost. So, either case he did not lose.

 

[storm1051787]

Okay seems like i didnt replayed it long enough just now. Its kinda a flawed premise to not count his regenerative ability tho and even more when he falls back on it and never really gives his all because he will just be able to stand up again lol

Im not really sure what to make out of that, shes for sure the more skilled combatant tho lol

Doubtfull the mc himself even knows how strong he is at the moment if he would be fully unleashed

My initial initial statement (him being overconfident) was incorrect tho, as he was holding back because he couldnt afford to kill her (officially because shes royal marine, inoffical because we have to bang) but he still was holding back.

Because like I said earlier he might not have been trying to kill her but I don't really think that's the same as holding back. Mc is not a trained assassins that relies on lethal attacks and I feel like wind magic makes it pretty easy to incomasitate people. Basically the way he was fighting against her is the same way he fights everyone.

I think he was caught off guard maybe during the first round by how strong she was but I think he was at least going all out by the second round. All "I can't kill her" means to me is no stabbing in vitals, but Diana is clearly a better fighter in the first place and Mc only really got as far as he did in that fight because of his powers.



And I think not counting regen also matters because he's essentially admitting that Diana has more raw combat ability than he does. The regen essentially just allows him to fight longer.

Dude, that's like saying he lost because he should be drown but he did not because he used his ability to walk on water. Regeneration is an ability of his, so just because he used it does not mean he lost.

No, it's saying he lost because she knocked him out twice. He was down and the only reason why he wasn't completely dead then is because she thought she had finished the job and walked away.

I need to recheck how it ended because as far as I remember, he kinda pulled a trick and won but because he overextended himself

Nope, it was a double knock out. They both attacked each other at the same time and both got knocked out by the attack. Like I posted earlier mc literally admits that Diana is stronger than him.

 

[justin.case]

No, it's saying he lost because she knocked him out twice. He was down and the only reason why he wasn't completely dead then is because she thought she had finished the job and walked away.

I am not sure why you are so hellbent on this. It is his ability, if she wanted best him she should cross that ability too. It really is a nonsense you are trying to push and if you don't see what's wrong with what you are saying, then I am not sure there is a way to convince you.

Nope, it was a double knock out. They both attacked each other at the same time and both got knocked out by the attack.

Okay, then it's a draw. He still did not lose the fight.

 

[storm1051787]

I am not sure why you are so hellbent on this. It is his ability, if she wanted best him she should cross that ability too. It really is a nonsense you are trying to push and if you don't see what's wrong with what you are saying, then I am not sure there is a way to convince you.

I don't really think you understand what I'm saying here.

I'm not saying you can't count the mc's regen ability. I'm saying that the only reason why the mc survived is because of his regen ability. It's not why I'm saying he lost. I'm saying he lost because twice in the fight he was essentially knocked out. I'm basically counting the whole thing as 3 rounds.


Round 1 he lost.

Round 2 he lost.

Round 3 was a double knock out.

 

[xapican]

justin.case ;
MC: "We bang !"
Edit: OH, "And what Hornyy Pussy said!"

 

[justin.case]

I don't really think you understand what I'm saying here.

I'm not saying you can't count the mc's regen ability. I'm saying that the only reason why the mc survived is because of his regen ability. It's not why I'm saying he lost. I'm saying he lost because twice in the fight he was essentially knocked out. I'm basically counting the whole thing as 3 rounds.


Round 1 he lost.

Round 2 he lost.

Round 3 was a double knock out.

There was no rounds though. They fought and he did not lose. That's the entirety of my claim.

I really don't know where this discussion came from, I haven't read the entire thread. I saw people saying MC lost that fight, so I said he did not. I remember he won at the end with some trickery, though you say double knock-out and I don't remember entirely so I trust what you say. Still, he did not lose the fight. As MC said he has some raw magic in him, different than all other magicians. He has to refine it to be become better user. She has a rare magic honed to almost perfection to fight. MC was holding back, having any sort of limitation is holding back btw. If you can't kill, you can't use certain attacks and/or abilities. So he held his ground fairly good and not losing that fight is more than enough for him in that situation.

If you are saying MC should have godlike power from the get-go then there won't be any story because the main story is, MC gaining power through kindness(light path) or vengeance (dark path) and take his revenge.

Anyways, I am gonna do a rerun so and probably read your discussion. Maybe I'll join the discussion then.

 

[justin.case]

justin.case ;
MC: "We bang !"
Edit: OH, "And what Hornyy Pussy said!"

P.S. I don't even when I put that there. But it's the ultimate truth, ain't it?

 

[Dessolos]

There was no rounds though. They fought and he did not lose. That's the entirety of my claim.

I really don't know where this discussion came from, I haven't read the entire thread. I saw people saying MC lost that fight, so I said he did not. I remember he won at the end with some trickery, though you say double knock-out and I don't remember entirely so I trust what you say. Still, he did not lose the fight. As MC said he has some raw magic in him, different than all other magicians. He has to refine it to be become better user. She has a rare magic honed to almost perfection to fight. MC was holding back, having any sort of limitation is holding back btw. If you can't kill, you can't use certain attacks and/or abilities. So he held his ground fairly good and not losing that fight is more than enough for him in that situation.

If you are saying MC should have godlike power from the get-go then there won't be any story because the main story is, MC gaining power through kindness(light path) or vengeance (dark path) and take his revenge.

Anyways, I am gonna do a rerun so and probably read your discussion. Maybe I'll join the discussion then.

I think he was using rounds because there was a few times where it looked like he was out of the fight / done for and got back up. So I can see how that can be considered round 1 etc

 

[justin.case]

I think he was using rounds because there was a few times where it looked like he was out of the fight / done for and got back up. So I can see how that can be considered round 1 etc

Meh. It's a fight, you go down then get up again. If you can't get up, you lost. He took the initiative a few times too iirc, so why don't we put some rounds there to give him some points?

 

[storm1051787]

There was no rounds though. They fought and he did not lose. That's the entirety of my claim.

Any time there is a significant pause in a fight that's essentially a new round. If you count this as boxing rules the mc lost the fight. He got knocked out then managed to recover after a while and caught Diana off guard both times because she didn't know about his regen powers being able to heal his otherwise fatal injuries.

Imo that's a pretty clear lost. I'm not taking their powers into consideration at all here. Even if you don't count those as rounds as I did a draw is still a lost imo it's just means both parties lost. Holding back doesn't really matter here since nobody can agree with how much he was holding back or for how long, just that he was trying not to kill her initially. But even if we knew mc was holding back considerably I'd still say he lost those rounds I'd just say he only lost because he was holding back. While here I'm saying he lost those rounds because she's a more skilled fighter, and probably better at using her magic.

I think he was using rounds because there was a few times where it looked like he was out of the fight / done for and got back up. So I can see how that can be considered round 1 etc

That's exactly what I'm doing.

 

[justin.case]

Any time there is a significant pause in a fight that's essentially a new round. If you count this as boxing rules the mc lost the fight. He got knocked out then managed to recover after a while and caught Diana off guard both times because she didn't know about his regen powers being able to heal his otherwise fatal injuries.

That is not boxing though. Also, the abilities of Diana caught MC off guard too. For those to be counted as rounds, like any sports that do that, there should be rules for it. Let's go with your analogy, in boxing it's not a round when someone goes down, it's when the bell rings. If an opponent gets up and good to fight, then the fight goes on. So even in your analogy, that does not work.

Imo that's a pretty clear lost. I'm not taking their powers into consideration at all here. Even if you don't count those as rounds as I did a draw is still a lost imo it's just means both parties lost. Holding back doesn't really matter here since nobody can agree with how much he was holding back or for how long, just that he was trying not to kill her initially. But even if we knew mc was holding back considerably I'd still say he lost those rounds I'd just say he only lost because he was holding back. While here I'm saying he lost those rounds because she's a more skilled fighter, and probably better at using her magic.

That is exactly right. It is in your opinion. You set some arbitrary rules that would support your claim, then want people accept these. There is only one truth in here. They fought, they knocked each other out, they drew. Anything else you say is just your interpretation, nothing more.

Holding back doesn't really matter here since nobody can agree with how much he was holding back or for how long, just that he was trying not to kill her initially. But even if we knew mc was holding back considerably I'd still say he lost those rounds I'd just say he only lost because he was holding back. While here I'm saying he lost those rounds because she's a more skilled fighter, and probably better at using her magic.

Of course holding back does matter. It really is not important how much he is holding back, he is holding back, which means he is not using his full potential while opponent using hers. Just because you say he lost, does not make him lose. Like I said, you put your own rules in a fight that does not follow your rules, then you claim one side lost because your rules says so. That's not how it works, sorry. I can do what you can do too. In a fight whoever has more blonde hair will lose the fight. According to those rules, Diana lost, terribly.

In the end, if you really really wanna go who won path. Then, Diana's goal was killing the twins. MC's goal was saving them. Since the twins are alive, then MC is the only winner of that fight because he is the one who reached their goal. So simple as you can see.

 

[Krytax123]

Because like I said earlier he might not have been trying to kill her but I don't really think that's the same as holding back. Mc is not a trained assassins that relies on lethal attacks and I feel like wind magic makes it pretty easy to incomasitate people. Basically the way he was fighting against her is the same way he fights everyone.

I think he was caught off guard maybe during the first round by how strong she was but I think he was at least going all out by the second round. All "I can't kill her" means to me is no stabbing in vitals, but Diana is clearly a better fighter in the first place and Mc only really got as far as he did in that fight because of his powers.

And I think not counting regen also matters because he's essentially admitting that Diana has more raw combat ability than he does. The regen essentially just allows him to fight longer.

Being allowed to fight longer is a very vital thing if we consider they are both depleting their reserves (and he regens faster).

But anyway i never got the feeling that were talking about who's more skilled or a better fighter. Thats CLEARY Diana which is very obvious during the whole fight. MC is HARD CARRIED by his nephilim powers the whole time, plenty of people are more skilled fighters.

Taron and Dalen are easy more skilled and better fighters too for example, probably even Kira and Pearl.

Its honestly kinda strange how bad of a fighter the mc is (occasionally) considering his background (kinda fighting since he's 10 years old), always caught off guard and stuff like that. This was already shown in the very beginning in the fight with the bandits

Hes a bit like goku in that regard too, oftentimes not serious (enough) and a bit dumb lol

But he's still more powerful than all of these and im pretty sure if you would put mc and diana in a arena and only one is able to get out alive, it would still be the mc in the end even tho he may would have needed to regenerate a few times lol

We dont even know if the MC even can be killed lol, Balthazar needed to get banished or sealed or something and is likely immortal

 

[storm1051787]

That is not boxing though. Also, the abilities of Diana caught MC off guard too. For those to be counted as rounds, like any sports that do that, there should be rules for it. Let's go with your analogy, in boxing it's not a round when someone goes down, it's when the bell rings. If an opponent gets up and good to fight, then the fight goes on. So even in your analogy, that does not work.

I'm sorry but being knocked/incapacitated counts as losing a fight. It doesn't matter if he can get back up later and go again. That's essentially just a rematch. If you got knocked out in a fight wouldn't you count that as a loss? Even if you were only knocked out for say 15 seconds or so.

That is exactly right. It is in your opinion.

It might be my opinion but it's a pretty sensible one. You not counting getting knocked out as having lost is just silly.

Of course holding back does matter. It really is not important how much he is holding back, he is holding back, which means he is not using his full potential while opponent using hers.

It doesn't matter because Mc was never fights to kill in the first place. Whether or not he was going for the kill really doesn't matter because mc isn't skilled in killing people in the first place.

Like I said, you put your own rules in a fight that does not follow your rules, then you claim one side lost because your rules says so. That's not how it works, sorry. I can do what you can do too. In a fight whoever has more blonde hair will lose the fight. According to those rules, Diana lost, terribly.

Dude this is a ton of cope. Mc got knocked out, mc lost. I'm not even the only person who saying he lost. I don't really care if you count the other fights as rounds.


Mc either lost or he tied. The only reason why we are this conversation is because YOU asked me why I kept saying Mc lost and I explained to you. I never claimed you had to take my logic for why I am counting it as a lost. The only thing I insisted on was that either way it clearly wasn't a win.

 

[storm1051787]

But anyway i never got the feeling that were talking about who's more skilled or a better fighter. Thats CLEARY Diana which is very obvious during the whole fight. MC is HARD CARRIED by his nephilim powers the whole time, plenty of people are more skilled fighters.

I was always talking about who was stronger.

Diana is clearly stronger and the mc was mostly just relying on his regen powers to be able to stay in the fight at all.

I just don't consider regen the same as being more powerful. I'm basically thinking in terms of dps.

 

[justin.case]

It's not going anywhere and I am against animal abuse, so I think it's best to leave the dead horse, with some dignity.

I'm sorry but being knocked/incapacitated counts as losing a fight. It doesn't matter if he can get back up later and go again. That's essentially just a rematch. If you got knocked out in a fight wouldn't you count that as a loss? Even if you were only knocked out for say 15 seconds or so.

Just wanted clear this part so I quoted. If you get up, the round is not finished. If you can't get up, there are no more rounds. So your analogy nor the rule you put make any sense in that regard.

Dude this is a ton of cope. Mc got knocked out, mc lost. I'm not even the only person who saying he lost. I don't really care if you count the other fights as rounds.

First of all it's not common consensus here. Also, here's a reading topic for you. Argumentum ad populum, it's an interesting one.

In the end, if you really really wanna go who won path. Then, Diana's goal was killing the twins. MC's goal was saving them. Since the twins are alive, then MC is the only winner of that fight because he is the one who reached their goal. So simple as you can see.

You say he clearly lost but you forgot to quote last part, here you go, cope with this.

 

[storm1051787]

If you get up, the round is not finished

If you get up right away the rounds not finished. Mc didn't

First of all it's not common consensus here. Also, here's a reading topic for you. Argumentum ad populum, it's an interesting one.

I don't care what the common consensus is. Me and several other people were saying he lost. You replied to me asking why I think he lost then started this weird argument where you seemed to have forgotten what you actually asked me and thought that I was telling you want to think.

I actually think it's kind of funny how you went on a rant about me making up my own rules supposedly when you literally asked me what my opinion was.

You say he clearly lost but you forgot to quote last part, here you go, cope with this.

I didn't forget. I ignored it because it's not really relevant. Like I said last reply and this one. You misunderstood what the conversation was about somehow. I'm kind of confused how the mix up started but I was never telling you what your opinion should be or that you should agree with mine. I was telling you why I have my opinion.


The only thing I'm actually adamant on is the mc didn't Win because Diana's last attack knocked him out. I don't really care if you consider it rounds like I do or consider the whole thing a draw.

The reason why I am saying it's cope and this reply of yours is cope because it's just such an incredibly silly argument. And it's like you're essentially blabbering nonsense just to try to tell me I'm wrong.


I'm not really sure what the lesson here is. Maybe read carefully? I've never seen someone forget what the actual conversation was about like you have.