VN Ren'Py Nephilim [v0.6.0] [BuuPlays]

[Quetzzz]

And what happens if he's not a pussy and refuses to talk?

There's also another aspect. Kira might be thinking things that convey remorse, but that's outside of the MC's perspective.
He can't act on what she was thinking because he doesn't know.
All he knows is that Kira and Pearl have cost him valuable time, and effectively kidnapped him. They didn't uphold their end of the bargain by not bringing him straight to death-island.

I never said she knew about the ring. I was just talking about blackhearts violent behavior which Kira knew he was rather violent , more than your average pirate.

Exactly. One of the reasons for the rift between Blackheart and his daughters, is that the twins weren't doing pirate things in the traditional sense. Though the twins not being ruthless pirates is a whole other plothole.

i'm wondering why its been awhile since we've had a light and dark path choice. the last light and dark path i can remember is when the mc's girl becomes a vampire and you can encourage her to become a cold heartless blood draining monster, or try to have her try to resist, since im on a dark path i chose to encourage her darker side, but atlas that choice was doesn't matter because i've gotten to the tribal island now and she's a goody two shoes who drinks either my blood with permission or what i assume is artificial blood. now the drinking my blood with permission i get, but if i encourage the darkness within , then it should show.

You and me both, these choices were some of the most interesting things the game had going for it, I think.
But, then I noticed that they're largely cosmetic. Sure, the code assigns some points, but just like with all the trust points, they aren't ever used to guide the MC's reactions or personality.

When Eliza was purified, it was said that she'd start to "dessicate" (desiccate) the longer she went without the MC's blood. But when she contacts him while he's on the island, she's in perfect health and only drank a deus-ex vial of his blood after a week.
I'm inclined to see this as another plot hole, but I'll give some leeway because even the goddess didn't have a clue about what Eliza would become exactly.

That makes even less sense. Why would you automatically assume a pirate in a pirate bay is lying to you when trying to tell you how to stay safe? Infact I don't even see why it being a pirate ay would factor in at all.

It's very easy to see her warning as a low-key threat. "Be on your best behavior, or else."

and why wouldn't they? Pirates are liars , thief's , murders especially in a fantasy setting. I'd trust a pirate just as much as I trust Taron unless they proof to me otherwise. At that point she hasn't done anything to make me think she was trustworthy hell she lost some trust.

You're so wrong there! Kira and Pearl are obviously good pirates! /s
The daughters of the pirate king are flying a pirate flag, but only attack "bad guy"-ships... But also not other pirates? It would've been so much more interesting if they were actually ruthless and unapologetic about what they did. Then, after dealing with Blackbeard, the player could've had choices to encourage them to keep at it, or to transition to legal trading or a merchant fleet.

Don't know what to tell you it's just how I think of pirates and being in a Den of Pirates makes it seem a hell alot more dangerous where I need to keep my guard up and trust no one in my mind unless I actually trust that character.

Yeah, same. On the way to the shore, I didn't tell Kira anything because I didn't want to give her more knowledge to use against me. I also let her fall. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[storm1051787]

It's very easy to see her warning as a low-key threat. "Be on your best behavior, or else."

It's the same thing either way. You're saying mc is fine so long as he does what Mc says.

There's also another aspect. Kira might be thinking things that convey remorse, but that's outside of the MC's perspective.
He can't act on what she was thinking because he doesn't know.

He can't read her thoughts, but she has a very bad poker face it's pretty easy to tell she feels guilty just by her facial expressions. Plus the mc talks to her about and she says she doesn't want to do it.

The daughters of the pirate king are flying a pirate flag, but only attack "bad guy"-ships... But also not other pirates?

That's what I'm saying though. At least half of pirates in fantasy setting are exactly like this and we never see do anything evil. Instead they're allies to the protagonist or the protagonist is part of their crew

 

[Quetzzz]

He can't read her thoughts, but she has a very bad poker face it's pretty easy to tell she feels guilty just by her facial expressions. Plus the mc talks to her about and she says she doesn't want to do it.

Actions speak louder than words. Kira and Pearl have no issues going against Blackheart's wishes otherwise. Why is this situation different?

 

[storm1051787]

Actions speak louder than words.

I mean yeah and her body language is actions. It's pretty apparent to someone even half paying attention that she feels guilty about it even without being able to see her thought. I'm not saying you should forgive them if you don't. I was frankly never felt upset about it in the first place or the thing Pearl does later. I'm just saying she pretty obviously she remorse and tries to explain to the mc that she doesn't want to do it.

Kira and Pearl have no issues going against Blackheart's wishes otherwise. Why is this situation different?

Doesn't Kira literally say that their father doesn't like her because they go against their wishes and don't act like real pirates? Was their any information prior to this that suggested that the twins are 100% on board with everything their father does?

 

[Quetzzz]

Doesn't Kira literally say that their father doesn't like her because they go against their wishes and don't act like real pirates? Was their any information prior to this that suggested that the twins are 100% on board with everything their father does?

That's what I'm wondering. I think the dev's fascination with pure characters undermines the story. Why are Kira and Pearl allowed to be "good pirates" by their father? How does it make sense that they're so fearful of him, but not fearful enough to either run away entirely and live a different life, or act like the pirates their father wants them to be? They want to have their cake and eat it too.
Why do they constantly go against his wishes in everyday life, but delivering the MC to him was an easy choice?

And, regardless of Kira's expressions or feelings of worry/remorse, they did hand him over. An entire week passed during which they could've told him, even prepared him. It's not entirely where death-island is, but if it had taken a week from the port, and also a week from pirate island, then that makes an equilateral triangle. They'd have been sailing in the wrong direction by 60° right after leaving the mainland. This isn't a "he forced our hand"-situation, but premeditation.

 

[storm1051787]

That's what I'm wondering. I think the dev's fascination with pure characters undermines the story. Why are Kira and Pearl allowed to be "good pirates" by their father? How does it make sense that they're so fearful of him, but not fearful enough to either run away entirely and live a different life, or act like the pirates their father wants them to be? They want to have their cake and eat it too.

I mentioned this earlier but good pirates is a fairly standard fantasy trope that's pretty much in line with being chilverous thieves. They only pirate on people who deserve it so to speak and live by pirate code bla bla bla.

The whole we're not bad but are parents/parental figure in our life was and they're abusive and force us to do bad things is a pretty standard trope too. You guys mention pirates being evil and murders, but I almost never see that in fiction. And when I do their leader is typically the only named character and you never really converse with them.

Why do they constantly go against his wishes in everyday life, but delivering the MC to him was an easy choice?

Because like I've been say it's pretty obvious they didn't believe he was in actual danger.

And, regardless of Kira's expressions or feelings of worry/remorse, they did hand him over. An entire week passed during which they could've told him, even prepared him. It's not entirely where death-island is, but if it had taken a week from the port, and also a week from pirate island, then that makes an equilateral triangle. They'd have been sailing in the wrong direction by 60° right after leaving the mainland. This isn't a "he forced our hand"-situation, but premeditation.

Honestly this isn't really what I was talking about. Other person said Pearl's betrayal was ok because she felt remorseful, but Kira's wasn't even though she obviously felt remorseful as well. I'm not arguing whether or not what she did was right or wrong. I'm just saying it's a double standard that Pearls betrayal doesn't count because she said sorry, but Kira's does. Especially since Pearl's betrayal was way worse and more egregious.


It's just pretty obvious that Kira didn't believe Mc was actually going to get hurt and figured she was just robbing him of some valuable treasure same as pearl. For some reason this thread hates Kira, but loves Pearl even though the two characters really aren't that different, and they both have similar actions and motivations.

 

[Quetzzz]

I mentioned this earlier but good pirates is a fairly standard fantasy trope that's pretty much in line with being chilverous thieves. They only pirate on people who deserve it so to speak and live by pirate code bla bla bla.

That's the thing, the chivalrous pirates we see in movies and games are an exception. They only appear to be the majority because they're getting the most screen time. Meanwhile, in games, we're killing hordes of nameless bad pirates.
These chivalrous pirates are interesting because of the contradiction of them "stealing for the right reasons", like Robin Hood. This contradiction only works when 99.9% of pirates are ruthless killers.
And, just looking at it from a practical point of view... How would Kira and Pearl even know who to attack? They say they rarely visit pirate island or even go ashore, so where are they getting their information from? What kind of information network would they need to consistently pick out valid targets? For that matter, wouldn't most smuggling be done by merchant ships, with only a few of the crew in the know?

Because like I've been say it's pretty obvious they didn't believe he was in actual danger.

Their perspective does not matter. What matters to the MC is that this trip has taken a valuable week with Eliza stuck in bed. Their father isn't inviting the MC over for coffee, he clearly wants whatever the MC is looking for. He caught wind of their destination, and the adventurer's guild involvement, and wants to gauge if whatever the MC is looking for would be useful to him.

And, if they didn't believe the MC to be in danger, why did both Kira and Pearl beg their father to be lenient on him?

and figured she was just robbing him of some valuable treasure same as pearl

Oh yeah, so far for being chivalrous pirates, right? Stealing valuable treasure from someone who's going to an island nobody ever returned from. What was that about only stealing from people who deserved it?

 

[storm1051787]

That's the thing, the chivalrous pirates we see in movies and games are an exception. They only appear to be the majority because they're getting the most screen time. Meanwhile, in games, we're killing hordes of nameless bad pirates.
These chivalrous pirates are interesting because of the contradiction of them "stealing for the right reasons", like Robin Hood. This contradiction only works when 99.9% of pirates are ruthless killers.
And, just looking at it from a practical point of view... How would Kira and Pearl even know who to attack? They say they rarely visit pirate island or even go ashore, so where are they getting their information from? What kind of information network would they need to consistently pick out valid targets? For that matter, wouldn't most smuggling be done by merchant ships, with only a few of the crew in the know?

Even in video games there are tons and I mean tons of examples of good friendly pirates that ally with the mc. Pirates are only ever bad when we need a bunch of faceless enemies to fight. Also irl pirates during the golden age of piracy weren't killers either. Blackbeard literally never killed anyone until they tried to arrest him. Pirates mostly tried to blue unarmed merchants into handing over their stuff. Same tactics as the common mugger. Pirates rarely actually fought any battles because they didn't want to get killed. I've got a weapon and you don't so hand over your stuff and we'll leave. And where was it mentioned they never go to the bay or go to shore?

Their perspective does not matter. What matters to the MC is that this trip has taken a valuable week with Eliza stuck in bed. Their father isn't inviting the MC over for coffee, he clearly wants whatever the MC is looking for. He caught wind of their destination, and the adventurer's guild involvement, and wants to gauge if whatever the MC is looking for would be useful to him.

1000% disagree. Their perspective is the only thing that matters when we're judge their character. It's the entire reason why characters are given an out whenever they do stuff like this. Bad guy is bad by circumstances and not by choice thing or whatever. Standard trope. Kira clearly thought the mc was going to be fine so there is no sense in trying to act as if she was willingly going to let him be murdered. We're not talking about whether or not what you think did was right or wrong And we already know Kira and Pearl had no idea about Eliza or even what the MC was looking.


Kira's betrayal is only that she lied to the mc in her head. She clearly never thought he was in danger. So I want to know why Kira's "betrayal" is somehow worse or even on par with Pearl. One is way worse than the other.




And they didn't beg their father to be lenient. It says that Pearl kept praising the mc and saying that she shouldn't kill him. Kira was under the impression that as long as Mc doesn't try to make blackheart mad he'll be fine.

Oh yeah, so far for being chivalrous pirates, right? Stealing valuable treasure from someone who's going to an island nobody ever returned from. What was that about only stealing from people who deserved it?

Do you not think there is a difference between literally robbing a person and trying to make it to some fabled treasure first?

 

[Quetzzz]

Their perspective is the only thing that matters when we're judge their character.

I'm not judging their character, I'm judging the impact their actions have on the MC.
If someone wrongs me while acting with the best of intentions, I still have the right to be angry at them, and wanting nothing to do with them. This nuance is lost in this story.

Do you not think there is a difference between literally robbing a person and trying to make it to some fabled treasure first?

Pearl didn't make it to the treasure first, did she?

 

[Dessolos]

Looks like round 3 has started while I was playing BG3

 

[storm1051787]

I'm not judging their character, I'm judging the impact their actions have on the MC.

I'm not. I really don't care about that. End of the day everything worked out in both situations.

I didn't say you don't have the right to be angry with them(though I do think it's silly if you are). I just don't get why Pearl gets a free pass for her betrayal but Kira doesn't even though it A) wasn't nearly as bad, B) Kira believed the mc was safe, and C) Pearl was in on it the whole time. Shouldn't it count a both Kira and Pearl betraying the mc? It's a clear double standard.

 

[Deleted member 6503042]

Ever changing jungle with weird fog and the other tribe that's more violent, what could go wrong for the ambassador?

I am fairly certain it will depend on ambassador's gender. If the ambassador a woman, then she survived, probably captured by other tribe. MC will save her as a white knight in shining armor, then they'll make sweet looove. If he is a man, he might have died but Diana still let MC and twins go because MC did his duty by learning what happened to ambassador. Also, he'll make sweet looove to Diana when he came back.

Let's say you saved up to buy life-altering medication for a loved one, and someone you trust steals it from you... You'd immediately see their point of view, with no trace of anger or disappointment? Even after you had to go out of your way to get it back, you'd just let bygones be bygones?
Even if objectively their need for this medicine would be bigger than yours, wouldn't it sting to have been betrayed like this?

Not immediately no but if it's out of their usual behaviour then I'd think there must be a reason for that. Then when I learn the reason good enough, I'd forgive. If I forgive someone, then I forget too.

Yeah, I honestly agree with all of that. But, again, Pearl doesn't even get an angry look, or a stern talking to. If you play the dark paths, why wouldn't he say something like: "If you or your sister betray me ever again, I'll put you where your father is."
If a friend of mine stole anything from me, even for the best reasons possible, I'd still be allowed to be angry at him, even if I understood his motivations.

I do agree on this tbh. Dark path MC is very inconsistent. I think story is written according to light path, then some alteration made for dark path. So, only when you choose the dark path options MC acts dark, any time else he is on the light path again.

I agree with this as well. He killed an innocent and let the guilty one walk. I expected her to come back to get revenge, but it seems Selena was just written out of the story.
Though, on the dark path there's another significant inconsistency here. If the MC killed the sister, then Eliza will kill Selena and feel bad about it. But earlier, the MC could've taught her that humans are below her, that she's an apex predator and people are just food to her. Wouldn't it make more sense that in that scenario, she'd revel in killing Selena?

Yes but MC can say, you did good to Eliza when she killed Selena. So, there is that.

That's pretty much my entire point. On the light-path, I think it's great that the MC forgives and forgets. On the dark path, not at all.

Then we reached to an agreement. On light path MC is forgiving, so it's not out of character. On dark path, game needs more consistency. A few extra lines, here and there would/could do miracle in that regard I suppose. If we ever have punish Selena by not kiliing Samarah, then forgive the twins, I'd be content.

 

[Deleted member 6503042]

So I want to know why Kira's "betrayal" is somehow worse or even on par with Pearl. One is way worse than the other.

..............

I'm just saying it's a double standard that Pearls betrayal doesn't count because she said sorry, but Kira's does. Especially since Pearl's betrayal was way worse and more egregious.


It's just pretty obvious that Kira didn't believe Mc was actually going to get hurt and figured she was just robbing him of some valuable treasure same as pearl. For some reason this thread hates Kira, but loves Pearl even though the two characters really aren't that different, and they both have similar actions and motivations.

I am not sure if you are talking about me but if so I want to make some things clear. For me, Selena's betrayal is the worst, then Kira's betrayal, then at last Pearl's betrayal.
I think Selena deserves harshest possible punishment, even some revenge but I think killing her sister is out of line for MC. I can see the poetic justice approach for that. She tried to save her sister by betraying people and at the end she lost the sister even though she betrayed or whatever. She was innocent though, so I think we need something in between there.
Kira's situation was handled well imo. MC realized what's going on, got angry, saw she was in distress about whole ordeal. So he let it go.
Pearl's betrayal was completely justifiable for me. Hence MC not getting angry at all is acceptable also. Maybe we need a few more lines at the dark path would be nicer but that's all.

For the question, why Kira's betrayal was worse than Pearl. It's the way I look at. I see these as active danger and passive danger. Let's start from Selena, she put MC and Eliza in active danger. A situation both could die. So what she did is only explainable for me as treacherous. Kira put MC in active danger too. I've seen you said there was no danger to MC there but I disagree. Pearl's betrayal was consequential, a passive danger. Her action was taking a trinket to save someone. There was no direct results of her action, so it's easy to justify for me by thinking she was not aware the importance. Think about it like this, there is a chalice if she took it and delivered to her father her sister will be saved while someone she does not know may never walk. If she did not took it, then her sister will die so someone she does not know can walk. It really was an easy choice. Also, at that point, she does not know how powerful MC is, so asking and leaving her sister's fate to someone she knows just a few weeks is basically nonsense. So Selena>Kira>Pearl for me but there is a huge gap between Selena and Kira, while not big of a gap between twins.

Also, I really do like both of the twins and I'd prefer Kira over Pearl, though slightly. So there is no hate going on there.

 

[E_Wal]

Playing through this a second/third time, I am still enjoying the game, I have recognized some of the things throughout the game that just bugged me:

Spoiler: Events throughout the game up to Arriving at Looters Bay.

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I am still loving the game and I know there is a long road map for development but other than a few grammar issues these are the things that pull my attention away from the story when I come across them. Maybe some are by design and maybe they are just oversights but I still think the work the creator is doing is great and hopefully some of these things can be refined to improve the overall experience, if not then its still a great game and maybe future updates will balance these points out or something.

 

[storm1051787]

Kira put MC in active danger too. I've seen you said there was no danger to MC there but I disagree. Pearl's betrayal was consequential, a passive danger.

Disagree it was passive danger. Pearl little fought along side a fleet of ships trying to stop the mc. As for the whole Kira thing I'm convinced that Kira didn't eliee the mc was in danger and either way Pearl was still in on the whole thing. So its not Kira betraying the mc. It's Kira and Pearl betraying the mc. Kira is just the one who told you that you're seeing Blackheart but both sisters new they were going to stop there and no I wasn't talking about you

 

[Quetzzz]

Playing through this a second/third time, I am still enjoying the game, I have recognized some of the things throughout the game that just bugged me:

A few more to add to this list:

When the MC leaves for the capital, it's said his cousin will leave a week later, and the trip will take another week.
The MC makes the trip in 2-3 days, spends 2-3 days questing for the adventurer's guild, then meets up with his cousin.
So somehow, two weeks have passed for Flynn while only 6 days have passed for the MC.

When leaving for death-island, the MC says he'll be gone for two moons. It's about a week to pirate island, another week to death-island. Then the same on the way back. He would've been gone for about 4-5 weeks, 6 if we're being VERY generous, but he still says two moons have passed.

Women wearing high heels while in a forest, or on dirt roads.

In early chapter 5, Luna asks the MC to join her "tomorrow" to confront Rose. He agreed, but didn't go, and it was never brought up again.

Edit: and all the re-used renders.

 

[k1abrahams]

Anyone got a save file from just before the big fight to save the twins please ? Appreciate it.

 

[Deleted member 6503042]

A few more to add to this list:

My favourite is 2 people sailing, then same 2 people sleeping until the morning together. How do they navigate, if one does not stay awake and check whether if they are on course.

I think I had a few more but this one stands out.

 

[DevinHesi]

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It's time for a bonfire and night of festivities in v0.5.4!
Let's share a drink with local huntresses, Suji and Zyra, we aren't getting hammered, right? Right?
Find out what happens in v0.5.4!

 

[xapican]

I don't know why but Suji looks as if her "protein drink" is always dripping down her chin.