Others Netoria Tactics 2 [Demo] [Apollo Seven]

[raw_meat]

a nice QoL would be letting us save before letting us pick our POV

 

[KordNTR]

 

[JoeSte91]

Some of the complaints are strange implying that NTR and a MtF TF are exclusive when there are many games on this site that include both. Or is it because they just don't like to see the Male MC get cucked while as a woman? Can they only find it arousing if the MC gets cucked and humiliated while they are still in a male body? Personally I don't see the difference in some ways its better as the former male loses absolutely everything instead of just their partner/potential partner. Maybe its a self-insert thing for those complaining in the comments as they want to self-insert as the MC that gets cucked?

I don't think it's strange, it's just two separate types of NTR. Some people enjoy the idea that a cucked man becomes a woman, but some people are going to find that the transformation is cop out for the loss of attraction. If the cuck becomes a woman and the love interest prefers men over women, then that's naturally giving the love interest a legitimate reason to look elsewhere. A lot of NTR is based about corruption, so there are definitely going to be NTR enjoyers who are going to want the love interest to be corrupted towards another man solely on the merits of the other man being that corruptive influence upon her. A MtF transformation undercuts the corruptive aspect, and that's the particular aspect that some fans appreciate more.

As you say there are plenty of games that use both NTR and TF, so it's not unusual but it does touch on different areas of the fetish. Netoria Tactics 1 was one of those games, but it also offered a choice so you could go one way or another if you chose, if the MtF idea appealed to the player. For this game it's locked in, at least in regards to Zaman.

I admit for me there's some disappointment that MtF isn't a route that we can choose for Zaman in this game compared to the first, but I've already brought that up with Apollo, and he says it's essential to Zaman's story. So at this point I can only wait and play the game. For me, Apollo's good work on NR1 has bought him enough good will and benefit of the doubt for me to try and experience the story as intended.

 

[fetishgirl]

Maybe I'm explaining this badly. I was just using the Azar stuff as an example. Both Zaman and Shah have something called the null route, which is a state where neither of them are in a relationship with anybody, they've broken up. From there is where the most NTR version of events take place. So Zaman/Shah alone with all the other members of the party having been stolen and such.


The failure state for Azar in his competition with Safa is Azar ending up alone while Safa has his would-be harem, yes.

Shah's route all about her gaining confidence and breaking out of her love triangle. Have you ever seen one of those romance movies like Twilight and wanted the heroine to just fuck both of them already? That's where Shah is going if she succeeds. The stuff with her villain Nasib is not leading towards death. Nasib is the least malicious of the villains, his goals are all about trying to prove to himself that he is a good crown prince by solving his friends muder, because he knows Zaman didn't do it. So we have two characters both trying to prove their own worth to themselves colliding. And the results vary from Shah falling love with Nasib as well and adding him to her polyamorous relationship, or Shah become his sex slave.

And the femboy stuff is mostly aesthetic. It doesn't matter much to the story if Shah prefers being in her girl or boy form.

Sorry if I came across as harsh. My criticism is more personal than objective I think the writing for her is fine its just in comparison to other 3 characters her path doesn't seem as interesting.While from a narrative stand point I think the dynamic between Nasib and Shah is good. I am looking at it from the erotic content angle as well. Shah considering you confirmed doesn't play on her boy form in any route just makes her route seem very vanilla compared to the other 3 imo. I will explain why the other 3 seem more appealing to me as I think you are one of the few devs on here that does more niche fetishes/kinks exceptionally well.

1st: Zaman vs old bandit friend: Zaman now female would be struggling with possible break up with Shah or having her stolen from him now her. The longing to see their old friend the appeal of the life style they lead and the new urges that come from a new body. Would be interested in both a route where female Zaman submits fully from corruption or a romance with olf friend but understand if you don't want to many sub routes in the final version.

2nd: Azar vs Safa: Azar's has no real connection to Safa unlike the other rival pairings but from potential erotic content alone this seems very exciting. Lesbian NTR is one of the rarest kinks in erotica so that alone makes it interesting seeing a male lose to a woman like that and a woman aiming to have a harem of her own (I assume men and woman). I can't even think of another game that does this. Also whether Azar submits to the alternate time line of where they are female or not seems like an interesting dynamic too. Not to mention where we get to see Azar slowly become a chad and get a harem of their own. Either of their routes seems great.

3rd: Vashti vs son of a man that had a connection to her: Seeing the over confident schemer get outplayed by another schemer who knows of her past is a great dynamic to play off. While I am more interested in the futadom content I do like a battle of wits from 2 cunning characters play off against one another.

I think narratively this is the superior game to the previous game and I wouldn't say you have done a bad job with Shah its just that other routes are more interesting to me.

 

[fetishgirl]

I don't think it's strange, it's just two separate types of NTR. Some people enjoy the idea that a cucked man becomes a woman, but some people are going to find that the transformation is cop out for the loss of attraction. If the cuck becomes a woman and the love interest prefers men over women, then that's naturally giving the love interest a legitimate reason to look elsewhere. A lot of NTR is based about corruption, so there are definitely going to be NTR enjoyers who are going to want the love interest to be corrupted towards another man solely on the merits of the other man being that corruptive influence upon her. A MtF transformation undercuts the corruptive aspect, and that's the particular aspect that some fans appreciate more.

As you say there are plenty of games that use both NTR and TF, so it's not unusual but it does touch on different areas of the fetish. Netoria Tactics 1 was one of those games, but it also offered a choice so you could go one way or another if you chose, if the MtF idea appealed to the player. For this game it's locked in, at least in regards to Zaman.

I admit for me there's some disappointment that MtF isn't a route that we can choose for Zaman in this game compared to the first, but I've already brought that up with Apollo, and he says it's essential to Zaman's story. So at this point I can only wait and play the game. For me, Apollo's good work on NR1 has bought him enough good will and benefit of the doubt for me to try and experience the story as intended.

Okay got it so the complaint is aimed at when the TF takes place. However in this game Zaman can lose completely to Azar before they are stuck as a woman but I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think everything you said makes complete sense but I don't believe the argument you just made applies to this game at all and I would be 100% agreeing with you otherwise. This is my fault for not being more clear. I am referring to men who have already lost to another man before they either get feminised or transformed.

Also let me make it clear I am not attacking anyone's tastes I am just trying to understand the problem. There is nothing wrong with only finding arousal if a man who stays a man loses their partner to another man. I just don't think people are being honest here or unfair with their criticism if that makes sense.

 

[JoeSte91]

Okay got it so the complaint is aimed at when the TF takes place. However in this game Zaman can lose completely to Azar before they are stuck as a woman but I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think everything you said makes complete sense but I don't believe the argument you just made applies to this game at all and I would be 100% agreeing with you otherwise. This is my fault for not being more clear. I am referring to men who have already lost to another man before they either get feminised or transformed.

Also let me make it clear I am not attacking anyone's tastes I am just trying to understand the problem. There is nothing wrong with only finding arousal if a man who stays a man loses their partner to another man. I just don't think people are being honest here or unfair with their criticism if that makes sense.

I don't think you're attacking anyone or anything, I'm just offering an explanation as best I understand it. I think most people are being as honest and fair as their own preferences allow. I mentioned before in this thread that I think that some might find the TF angle will water down the NTR side, which was my reasoning for giving the players a choice, much like NR1 does. Where the difference happens is that if Apollo says it's essential to the story, I'll still play the game because I'm interested in Apollo's work. Some people just won't play the game, but I have to imagine Apollo has accepted that.

But I still think the reasoning applies. Just because you lose the girl first before the transformation doesn't necessarily mean that if's not affecting the NTR. We can see the beginnings of transformation in the demo. And then there's a lot of questions about the NTR that come into it. Is it a hard corruption where she's completely cock-struck by another man? Seems unlikely in this case. Is it a situation where there's no hope of recovering the previous relationship? That's the part where we don't know and the NTR is fundamentally changed by the transformation. It would become a point of no return, because she would be no longer attracted to him anyway, so whether she could or could not return would be null. In that situation, it's much more likely that the feminized male would become a participant alongside the ex-girlfriend, rather than a humiliated viewer. Some people like stories where the cuck ends up forced to participate (whether feminized or not) and some prefer for them to remain unable to interact with their previous lover.

 

[elliochness]

A shame there doesn't seem to be any mind control content in the sequel. I really enjoyed it in NT1 even if it was just a fraction of the game. It was well-written and I would have loved to see it expanded on.

 

[fetishgirl]

I don't think you're attacking anyone or anything, I'm just offering an explanation as best I understand it. I think most people are being as honest and fair as their own preferences allow. I mentioned before in this thread that I think that some might find the TF angle will water down the NTR side, which was my reasoning for giving the players a choice, much like NR1 does. Where the difference happens is that if Apollo says it's essential to the story, I'll still play the game because I'm interested in Apollo's work. Some people just won't play the game, but I have to imagine Apollo has accepted that.

But I still think the reasoning applies. Just because you lose the girl first before the transformation doesn't necessarily mean that if's not affecting the NTR. We can see the beginnings of transformation in the demo. And then there's a lot of questions about the NTR that come into it. Is it a hard corruption where she's completely cock-struck by another man? Seems unlikely in this case. Is it a situation where there's no hope of recovering the previous relationship? That's the part where we don't know and the NTR is fundamentally changed by the transformation. It would become a point of no return, because she would be no longer attracted to him anyway, so whether she could or could not return would be null. In that situation, it's much more likely that the feminized male would become a participant alongside the ex-girlfriend, rather than a humiliated viewer. Some people like stories where the cuck ends up forced to participate (whether feminized or not) and some prefer for them to remain unable to interact with their previous lover.

Thanks for understanding people get really hostile in NTR discussions and judge them for their kinks and preferences I like NTR content too so I wanted to make it clear that I am not attacking anyone's preferences. True but I don't think that it is a justified fear it just seems irrational to me given the content so far. However I can only speak from my experiences but feminisation or TFing normally occurs after the defeat I can't think of a game off the top of my head where they get fully feminised/TF'd into a woman before the loss has already occurred. Choices are always a good thing but too many will make the game impossible to finish and there are far more routes than the previous game. If the options were more limited I would be fully agreeing with you. I will admit its routes aren't so NTR centric like the previous game and more diverse with its erotic content. Time will tell whether this risk will pay off or not and I hope that this more ambitious game does pay off. Agreed its early days and I think many not including yourself are being too harsh when the story has barely started.

We might have to agree to disagree on this point. I think the NTR in this game is far quicker in its progression than the previous game as it needs to be dealt with before chapter 2 where the permanent MtF TF begins. This will be to accomodate the rival that each character is up against. From my understanding Azar can enter the harem route but lose it in chapter 2 to Safa his rival for example. You aren't wrong to say it would intervene but Shah is also implied to be bisexual similar to Gwen so its clear that Zaman is losing Shah to Azar due to his newly found confidence and assertive nature rather than him having a dick. Even in the previous game in the triumphant route with Carwyn he got both Gwen and Viviane by being assertive and confident. I do understand though that a lot of NTR fans love the appeal of female being corrupted and addicted to a good dicking down so I can see people complaining about how the NTR is handled. Also your point about the cuck participating is a good point I agree with you on this.

However it is possible to have the feminised/TF'd male have no further interactions or for a character like Shah to lose to dick as they prefer without the TF having any impact on the NTR process at all. Depending on how its written and given what we have seen so far I don't think it will be a problem. There is nothing that makes either path mutually exclusive so I still think people here aren't being honest about their problem with it. Still appreciate the reply thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

[JoeSte91]

Thanks for understanding people get really hostile in NTR discussions and judge them for their kinks and preferences I like NTR content too so I wanted to make it clear that I am not attacking anyone's preferences. True but I don't think that it is a justified fear it just seems irrational to me given the content so far. However I can only speak from my experiences but feminisation or TFing normally occurs after the defeat I can't think of a game off the top of my head where they get fully feminised/TF'd into a woman before the loss has already occurred. Choices are always a good thing but too many will make the game impossible to finish and there are far more routes than the previous game. If the options were more limited I would be fully agreeing with you. I will admit its routes aren't so NTR centric like the previous game and more diverse with its erotic content. Time will tell whether this risk will pay off or not and I hope that this more ambitious game does pay off. Agreed its early days and I think many not including yourself are being too harsh when the story has barely started.

We might have to agree to disagree on this point. I think the NTR in this game is far quicker in its progression than the previous game as it needs to be dealt with before chapter 2 where the permanent MtF TF begins. This will be to accomodate the rival that each character is up against. From my understanding Azar can enter the harem route but lose it in chapter 2 to Safa his rival for example. You aren't wrong to say it would intervene but Shah is also implied to be bisexual similar to Gwen so its clear that Zaman is losing Shah to Azar due to his newly found confidence and assertive nature rather than him having a dick. Even in the previous game in the triumphant route with Carwyn he got both Gwen and Viviane by being assertive and confident. I do understand though that a lot of NTR fans love the appeal of female being corrupted and addicted to a good dicking down so I can see people complaining about how the NTR is handled. Also your point about the cuck participating is a good point I agree with you on this.

However it is possible to have the feminised/TF'd male have no further interactions or for a character like Shah to lose to dick as they prefer without the TF having any impact on the NTR process at all. Depending on how its written and given what we have seen so far I don't think it will be a problem. There is nothing that makes either path mutually exclusive so I still think people here aren't being honest about their problem with it. Still appreciate the reply thanks for taking the time to respond.

I agree if the routes are overloaded, the game development ends up grinding to a halt. Although currently Apollo is already sidestepping that issue since if you play multiple routes, you can see the same events happening in both situations. The only difference is really the POV contained behind the ( ). So there's a variety of choice in what exactly you want to see and how you want to see it, but not necessarily a choice of what kind of story you're getting. But this is a demo, so it's difficult and possibly unfair to judge based on this alone. But some people are going to do that, as we've said.

Where this game seems to deviate from NR1 is that it seems to want to deal with the consequences or aftermath of the actions of the characters. So Azar can get his harem and cuck Zaman, but then he has to actually maintain it. Which is very intriguing from a storyline perspective, but it's not going to land with most people who enjoy NTR, because it's almost making a cuck out of the bull of the original cuck. Usually there's a superior male. Usually sexually superior but sometimes it can just be superior in terms of money or power to lead to coercion. But this is really introducing the idea of a superior male to that superior male. Again, it's very interesting in terms of story-telling, but I don't know if I'd consider it NTR, at least in a traditional sense.

There are some forms of hot-wifing, which involve reclaiming a woman who's been with another man. But that usually involves the original partner, not yet a third partner. So there are going to be people who come looking for NTR who are going to write off this game, because it really is playing with the idea of NTR and going into some niches. Not necessarily a bad thing, but just explaining why more traditional enjoyers might be put off. Like Shah being bisexual. A feminized Zaman losing Shah to Azar isn't going to hit with the traditional NTR crowd because it's not a man losing a woman to a superior man, it's a woman losing woman to a man. Some people will like that, but it's a smaller crowd.

 

[Apollo Seven]

I think arguing about how much true NTR and what kind of NTR in the game is pretty pointless. Even Netoria Tactics 1 was more Relationship Drama Tactics than anything. The point of the game isn't to appeal to a specific fetish and a specific implementation of that fetish but for me to have fun making a game and writing a story that I find interesting.
The initial drama between Zaman, Shah, and Azar is all setup. The entirety of Act 1 is there to get all the characters to the places they need to be emotionally for Act 2 to happen. Whether Zaman is with Shah, Vashti, or no one is all just flavoring for his character journey he undergoes. Same with the other characters and their POVs, the game is about the personal journey of one of four selected characters and if you want you can go back and pick another one and see what is different and what they go through. And if you only want to play one POV, that is intended to be a full experience in itself.
Maybe trying to describe the content that appears in the game is a mistake because it's not really about that. It's more erotica than pornography in that arousal isn't supposed to come from the base act and the traits of it, but the circumstances and people involved. There's a whole lot of things that can happen not because I'm trying to appeal to the fans of those things, but because it's interesting to see how these characters react to different situations.

 

[ｲ尺ﾑｷﾑﾚムﾑ尺 り ﾚﾑW]

How do you use the skill dagger throw? I mean in the tutorial fight with hydra. Said she has to start next to one of the guys? Didn't work or maybe I'm not used to the controls yet. Seems a big iffy.

Edit:- I was able to do it on the 2nd turn. But it didn't work on her first turn, though it has 2 range and it should have worked.

Am I missing anything by playing this in story mode and skipping battles? Is there sex scenes during battle?

 

[jimmydiddly]

Are there any plans to have like active groping? Like in Netoria 1 there were swap/pull/push moves that kinda did this and I was hoping Netoria 2 would expand on that a bit.

 

[Apollo Seven]

How do you use the skill dagger throw? I mean in the tutorial fight with hydra. Said she has to start next to one of the guys? Didn't work or maybe I'm not used to the controls yet. Seems a big iffy.

Edit:- I was able to do it on the 2nd turn. But it didn't work on her first turn, though it has 2 range and it should have worked.

Am I missing anything by playing this in story mode and skipping battles? Is there sex scenes during battle?

You miss all the in battle gropes, but there's no full length scenes that trigger in battle. I personally think story mode is a pretty diminished experience, the game's pacing is worse in it.

Are there any plans to have like active groping? Like in Netoria 1 there were swap/pull/push moves that kinda did this and I was hoping Netoria 2 would expand on that a bit.

Originally, I had the netori side of the cast initiate gropes manually with a command. But it wasn't very fun and I ended up changing it. Having to sacrifice your action to do it just isn't very tactically interesting and if it didn't use your turn and was free it removes the feeling of risk and push and pull between the two sides.

 

[Zulfiqar]

The setting in Netoria 1 wasn't really planned like most of the narrative elements. Netoria 2 went through much more pre-production.

Makes sense, I'm really glad you did it right this time, after playing through the demo I really enjoy the narrative elements. If you had avoided the prince in exile premise because it's the Fire Emblem go to that would have been pretentious. The group's dynamics, and that of the siblings and the prince, are plausible and compelling enough I think I'll play through every route once this is out.

It doesn't hurt that I really love genderbending and it seems every route is going to deliver on that in a different way. Also the middle eastern fantasy setting is just criminally underutilized and the comments complaining about it are really depressing.

I totally understand why you did four characters/routes, each additional character multiplies the work exponentially and as I said before the relationship dynamics are fundamentally strong. But it just occurs to me that a fifth pov character who is a passive, sexually inadequate effeminate boy who is in love with all the women and dominated/cuckolded by them and fucked by all the guys would have appealed to a lot of the ntr lovers.

I guess the whole premise of small dick loser is humiliated and cucked by everyone is a dead horse so beaten it's essentially little more than a grease stain on the dirt at this point and you avoid tropes that are utterly played out it seems?