VN Ren'Py Nothing Is Forever [v0.7.3] [MrSilverLust]

[MrSilverLust]

So you don't have to be a sub for Deb? You can be on her route as a "Bull"? Also how do you cuck Carl, in what sense at the moment?.. Do you have sex with Deb or are you just sewing the seeds?

Exactly, you don't have to sub for Deb, there's an alternative scene where you have sex with her while Carl just watches. Just depends on your choices and skills. It's the same system used in chapter 1 with Emma where you could also either manhandle her (dom scene) or let her take control (sub scene) during the hatefucking.

My idea is that, whether you play as a dominant or submissive, you will be able to have scenes with all the girls. However, the paths won't be the same length, some girls will have more content with dominant players, others with submissive players. Also, not all paths will lead to a "happy ending".

But, if you want, you should be able to have some lewd scenes with any of the girls without ever having to be a sub, or a dom, whichever you don't like.

 

[jufot]

So you don't have to be a sub for Deb? You can be on her route as a "Bull"?

Keep in mind that the whole bull thing is Carl's fantasy, not Deb's. If anything, she hates it. So you'll likely only be able to do that as long as Carl's in the picture.

Also how do you cuck Carl, in what sense at the moment?.. Do you have sex with Deb or are you just sewing the seeds?

You have sex with Deb while Carl watches.

 

[UncleFredo]

Found this game today, and played to the end of chapter 1, then went back and made alternate choices to get both outcomes at the end of that chapter. The VN has an interesting structure. It's well made and most of the english is fine. A few mismatched pronouns, but all in all pretty solid. I found the chess matches entertaining. So this was a generally positive experience.

That said the end of chapter 1 left me rather dissatisfied. Having personality points is fine. A game where my choices define my personality and how I'm perceived seems perfectly reasonable. Having to use those point to purchase skills that determine my choice options in interacting with LIs in the game feels like overkill. Further, many of the skills are too rigid and limiting. The potential nuances that could be in the game are locked out. Also the personalities are too superficial. Someone can be honorable, and clever, and charismatic. One can be "manly" and also sensitive to the needs and moods of someone with whom they are involved. One can be secure in their approach to the boundaries in a relationship without being dominant or submissive.

I like Emma quite a lot. Feisty and enjoyably argumentative can be very attractive. Hateful behavior not so much. Having the pursuit of her result in either abusing her or being abused by her, or having her simply stalk away screaming was very disappointing. Given the time investment to get there the time felt wasted. It also seemed to be the case that the encounter with her was unavoidable. She certainly seemed to be the only woman available for an encounter in the content of chapter 1.

Further, it seem quite likely that if this was the first encounter in the game, future encounters with other women are likely to be similarly unrewarding.

I've read about half the comments here and the developer's responses. I've read that certain women have certain kinks and to be with them you have to satisfy those kinks. Well perhaps that works if I know the kinks and the required skill(s) BEFORE I play for a few hours to find out I'm utterly disinterested in those kinks. I'm sure you think that it's entertaining to gather clues to figure out their kink(s) and then hope you have the necessary points to by the required skill. If you don't care for her kink or can't buy the needed skill it's very annoying.

I'm torn about this game. Competently made and fairly well written, but it's a cumbersome process to make progress with a woman and you can't tell if you're going to actually like her until you made a heavy investment. For me such games are about enjoyment, fantasies that cater to our personal tastes, not parallels of real life relationships.

How about adding some complexity to the women so that they aren't tied to one kink, and more than one approach will work and you get different encounters? You produced two different scenes at the end of chapter 1. It would have been far more enjoyable if instead of two hate fucks differing only in who was the abuser, I might have found a "softer" aspect and opened a different basis for a relationship. Doesn't seem like a lot more work for a "hard" scene and a "soft" scene, instead of two scenes based solely on mutual hostility.

Consider creating women of greater complexity, you may find you like the result.

It's your game and I fully support you developing the game as you see fit. Given the descriptions of Deb in chapter 2 I'm pretty certain she's not a fit for me either, so I may hold off playing further until there's another option down the road. I sincerely wish you the very best luck with your game. It reflects competence and commitment and I greatly respect that.

 

[AngelsAfterDark]

Keep in mind that the whole bull thing is Carl's fantasy, not Deb's. If anything, she hates it. So you'll likely only be able to do that as long as Carl's in the picture.


You have sex with Deb while Carl watches.

Oh I see, yeah that's where I got confused.. I thought the bull thing is what Deb wants from Carl.. But it's just his fantasy as you said.

 

[jufot]

If you don't care for her kink or can't buy the needed skill it's very annoying.

As it has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, don't spend skill points in advance. Wait till a choice that requires a skill is presented to you and then spend the points if you are interested in that skill.

Having the pursuit of her result in either abusing her or being abused by her, or having her simply stalk away screaming was very disappointing.

Those were not your only options. You could also simply walk away, like I did. People fight and say things that they don't actually mean. It doesn't end things with Emma

Further, it seem quite likely that if this was the first encounter in the game, future encounters with other women are likely to be similarly unrewarding.

Not true, I suggest you keep playing

For me such games are about enjoyment, fantasies that cater to our personal tastes, not parallels of real life relationships.
[...]
Consider creating women of greater complexity, you may find you like the result.

I feel the women of this game are faaar more complex than what you get in 99% of games on F95. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your primary underlying complaint is that you were physically attracted to Emma, but she wasn't made available to you in terms you would personally prefer. Is that a fair assessment? If so, I'd say that any given character doesn't have to cater to everyone, and surely someone else will offer something more to your liking. As I said, keep playing

 

[AngelsAfterDark]

Exactly, you don't have to sub for Deb, there's an alternative scene where you have sex with her while Carl just watches. Just depends on your choices and skills. It's the same system used in chapter 1 with Emma where you could also either manhandle her (dom scene) or let her take control (sub scene) during the hatefucking.

My idea is that, whether you play as a dominant or submissive, you will be able to have scenes with all the girls. However, the paths won't be the same length, some girls will have more content with dominant players, others with submissive players. Also, not all paths will lead to a "happy ending".

But, if you want, you should be able to have some lewd scenes with any of the girls without ever having to be a sub, or a dom, whichever you don't like.

Is There any way to know what path will have the most content with a specific girl or what leads to a good or bad ending?.. I mean there should be some hints right? like the kink thing gives you hints of what the girls kinks are.

 

[Raife]

...it sounds like your primary underlying complaint is that you were physically attracted to Emma, but she wasn't available to you in terms you would personally prefer. Is that a fair assessment? If so, I'd say that any given character doesn't have to cater to everyone, and surely someone else will offer something more to your liking.

Raife's theorem No. 1: LIs that are unavailable to the MC in precisely the way the typical player wants are likely to evidence characteristics that are present among some women in ordinary life. Ergo, they are more likely to be sophisticated, well-written female characters that Raife finds hot. Viz. Raife finds Emma to be hot; Raife finds Elsa to be hot.

Apologies for resorting to illeism, but it's late and I'm amusing myself.

 

[jufot]

Ergo, they are more likely to be sophisticated, well-written female characters that Raife finds hot. Viz. Raife finds Emma to be hot; Raife finds Elsa to be hot.

Well, you do have a point

illeism

Huh, TIL...

 

[Raife]

Huh, TIL...

Sorry, Jufot... too much Latin. But you _are_ in a thread about a porn game with an embedded Chess simulator and commentary system.

 

[MrSilverLust]

Found this game today, and played to the end of chapter 1, then went back and made alternate choices to get both outcomes at the end of that chapter. The VN has an interesting structure. It's well made and most of the english is fine. A few mismatched pronouns, but all in all pretty solid. I found the chess matches entertaining. So this was a generally positive experience.

This was a very good feedback, thanks for taking your time to write it. I quite enjoy to discuss the game, especially with players that have different viewpoints than myself. It’s the only way to take in different views that can be used to improve the game. I’ll try to explain you my own points of views, but please don’t take any of this as me trying to convince you to liking my game or playing more, or that your points aren’t valid, or something like that. It’s just genuinely fun for me to argue about these topics, and I have like 3 days after the game is updated to talk to people about it, before this thread goes to hibernation once again and I'm all alone in my porncave working on the next chapter . So I always jump to the opportunity!

Having to use those point to purchase skills that determine my choice options in interacting with LIs in the game feels like overkill. Further, many of the skills are too rigid and limiting. The potential nuances that could be in the game are locked out. Also the personalities are too superficial. Someone can be honorable, and clever, and charismatic. One can be "manly" and also sensitive to the needs and moods of someone with whom they are involved. One can be secure in their approach to the boundaries in a relationship without being dominant or submissive.

I completely agree with this and I will be using the skill system in ways that "reward" players that develop all personalities (to a certain extent), while "punishing" players that min-max certain stats and become kind of a "caricature" of a person by only choosing, for example, "manly" choices and being a "macho man". There's a time and a place to be sensitive and caring, or impetuous and a leader, or charismatic, or honorable, etc. When you look at the skill system, you don’t see what I see. Not all game mechanics can, or should, be introduced in chapter 1. Give me time to bring the system to its full potential. Of course you'll need to just take my word on this one, but believe me that we are on the same page here.

I like Emma quite a lot. Feisty and enjoyably argumentative can be very attractive. Hateful behavior not so much. Having the pursuit of her result in either abusing her or being abused by her, or having her simply stalk away screaming was very disappointing.

Honestly, that’s what I was going for. They were arguing, it’s supposed to be tense and that you feel how disturbed the situation left the MC. I think I did my job right here, if that’s how you feel. But, even though you can't avoid all the arguing and fallout because both the mc and Emma are quite disturbed at that moment, this is just the 1st chapter. In the future, with a cold head, the MC will be able to make choices to fix the situation.

I've read that certain women have certain kinks and to be with them you have to satisfy those kinks. Well perhaps that works if I know the kinks and the required skill(s) BEFORE I play for a few hours to find out I'm utterly disinterested in those kinks. I'm sure you think that it's entertaining to gather clues to figure out their kink(s) and then hope you have the necessary points to by the required skill. If you don't care for her kink or can't buy the needed skill it's very annoying.

I'm torn about this game. Competently made and fairly well written, but it's a cumbersome process to make progress with a woman and you can't tell if you're going to actually like her until you made a heavy investment. For me such games are about enjoyment, fantasies that cater to our personal tastes, not parallels of real life relationships.

These are good points and perhaps I underestimate the frustration of being interested in a LI just to find out you aren't into her kinks, or worse, be rejected by her. My reasoning was that this would add personality and complexity to the characters. Not all girls in the game will bend backwards for you just because, like in 99% of the games. You actually have to have a personality that they like and can fall for. But I see your point about it potentially being a frustrating situation.

I think at least I’m not lying to the players. I think this mechanic is well explained and people know what they are getting themselves in. That’s the best answer I can give to this point. If this is not the sort of game that a player might enjoy, I try to be as clear as possible so he can stop as early as possible and not waste his time.

How about adding some complexity to the women so that they aren't tied to one kink, and more than one approach will work and you get different encounters? You produced two different scenes at the end of chapter 1. It would have been far more enjoyable if instead of two hate fucks differing only in who was the abuser, I might have found a "softer" aspect and opened a different basis for a relationship. Doesn't seem like a lot more work for a "hard" scene and a "soft" scene, instead of two scenes based solely on mutual hostility.

As for the hateful sex, you can avoid it without losing her, if you aren't into that sort of thing. But you can’t have a “soft” scene here, sorry. This is just for story reasons.

You can see this chapter establishing the Emma/MC relationship as one where they care for each other, but can’t articulate/admit their feelings and keep arguing instead. All the time. This, surprisingly, has its own charm, as you have found out. But that’s also the obstacle they need to overcome if they ever want to get into a respectful relationship. There’s so much sexual tension between them, but they can only deal with that by arguing and fighting. And that culminates with them even having sex while bashing each other. It’s the only way they can show they want each other. That's the "drama" they need to overcome.

Now they are the sort of people that argue, and fight, and run away at the sight of the first problem. They need to become the sort of people that can instead talk about the issues, and not just banging with the door and run away because they don't know how to deal with their feelings. It's easier to just run away. Being vulnerable and admitting you like someone else, it’s hard. You can get hurt. It’s easier to just attack the other person instead. I’m sure you have observed this kind of behavior/defense mechanism in other people. Maybe even in yourself. I know I have.

They need to become better people and overcome their flaws before having their "soft" scene. In the middle of a heat discussion, given what you know about them both, it wouldn't fit the characters to have such a scene.This was the time where they need to fall, so they can rise again later as better people. You want the end of the movie after 20 mins. They have a whole character arc to go through before that.

At least that’s the story I’m trying to tell. You have the right of nothing liking it. Or of saying that I’m doing a bad job as a writer if I have to explain it to you. I’d prefer if all of this subtext was kind of obvious for people playing the game.

Given the descriptions of Deb in chapter 2 I'm pretty certain she's not a fit for me either, so I may hold off playing further until there's another option down the road. I sincerely wish you the very best luck with your game. It reflects competence and commitment and I greatly respect that.

Deb isn’t the only girl with lewd scenes in chapter 2. I find it curious that the other one is barely mentioned. Perhaps because this game attracts the kind of people that like more hardcore kinks and that particular girl is innocent and has vanilla and “soft” scenes. Perhaps you might like her. Oops, maybe I am trying to convince you to keep playing the game

 

[frostpaw]

Hoes come, hoes go, but always remember: Nutting is Forever

 

[Raife]

These are good points and perhaps I underestimate the frustration of being interested in a LI just to find out you aren't into her kinks, or worse, be rejected by her. My reasoning was that this would add personality and complexity to the characters. Not all girls in the game will bend backwards for you just because, like in 99% of the games. You actually have to have a personality that they like and can fall for. But I see your point about it potentially being a frustrating situation.

As for the hateful sex, you can avoid it without losing her, if you aren't into that sort of thing. But you can’t have a “soft” scene here, sorry. This is just for story reasons.

At least that’s the story I’m trying to tell. You have the right of nothing liking it. Or of saying that I’m doing a bad job as a writer if I have to explain it to you. I’d prefer if all of this subtext was kind of obvious for people playing the game.

Silver, I urge you to avoid the temptation to give players too much of what we want. Too much choice can end up eliminating consequences, danger and loss. Betrayal and cheating, for example, only have sting if those consequences feel real. Players should face the costs of their own decisions -- foreseeable and unforeseeable. Without those consequences and limited choices (or even lack of choice, in some cases) your narrative will be less powerful.

I'm not asking you to eliminate a feeling of player agency -- far from it. I'm just observing that there's a balance that must be struck.

But I _love_ your comment about the sad, fraught scene with Emma: 'My story requires you to deal with a painful situation...' Spoken like an author, or an artist.

 

[MrSilverLust]

Is There any way to know what path will have the most content with a specific girl or what leads to a good or bad ending?.. I mean there should be some hints right? like the kink thing gives you hints of what the girls kinks are.

Yes, I think it will be more-or-less obvious and there will be plenty of foreshadowing to tell you if that path has any lasting potential, or if it's more of a momentary thing.

You can already see players making predictions about which paths they think will last, for example, in one of the replies to your original question.

Silver, I urge you to avoid the temptation to give players too much of what we want.

There's definitely a risk of spending too much time over here getting influenced by all the comments! I need to strike a good balance.

Too much choice can end up eliminating consequences, danger and loss. Betrayal and cheating, for example, only have sting if those consequences feel real. Players should face the costs of their own decisions -- foreseeable and unforeseeable. Without those consequences and limited choices (or even lack of choice, in some cases) your narrative will be less powerful.

I think you shouldn't worry about me giving you too many choices, or eliminating consequences. If nothing else, for practical reasons, it's very difficult to deviate from a few planned paths. I simply don't have the men power for that. I just get to hope that the plot of those paths is entertaining enough to keep you interested, even if you have to deal with some bad consequences from the limited available options given.

 

[UncleFredo]

Those were not your only options. You could also simply walk away, like I did. People fight and say things that they don't actually mean. It doesn't end things with Emma

So I play for quite a long while and, at the end of that content, I'm presented with three unacceptable choices it's supposed to be okay that my only alternative is to walk away? Specifically from someone in whom I'm interested and from whom I do not wish to walk away. You actually have accentuated my point. I'll restate it for you. Investing all that time to be presented, in content I can't avoid, with three unrewarding options is NOT ENJOYABLE. Nor is it particularly entertaining.

This was a very good feedback, thanks for taking your time to write it. I quite enjoy to discuss the game, especially with players that have different viewpoints than myself. It’s the only way to take in different views that can be used to improve the game. I’ll try to explain you my own points of views, but please don’t take any of this as me trying to convince you to liking my game or playing more, or that your points aren’t valid, or something like that. It’s just genuinely fun for me to argue about these topics, and I have like 3 days after the game is updated to talk to people about it, before this thread goes to hibernation once again and I'm all alone in my porncave working on the next chapter . So I always jump to the opportunity!

You're welcome. All of my comments were intended to provide constructive feedback. As I said I respect your effort, commitment, and competence.

I completely agree with this and I will be using the skill system in ways that "reward" players that develop all personalities (to a certain extent), while "punishing" players that min-max certain stats and become kind of a "caricature" of a person by only choosing, for example, "manly" choices and being a "macho man". There's a time and a place to be sensitive and caring, or impetuous and a leader, or charismatic, or honorable, etc. When you look at the skill system, you don’t see what I see. Not all game mechanics can, or should, be introduced in chapter 1. Give me time to bring the system to its full potential. Of course you'll need to just take my word on this one, but believe me that we are on the same page here.

Thanks for this insight. It makes quite a difference in how I perceive the system. I apologize for making an early judgement.

Honestly, that’s what I was going for. They were arguing, it’s supposed to be tense and that you feel how disturbed the situation left the MC. I think I did my job right here, if that’s how you feel. But, even though you can't avoid all the arguing and fallout because both the mc and Emma are quite disturbed at that moment, this is just the 1st chapter. In the future, with a cold head, the MC will be able to make choices to fix the situation.



These are good points and perhaps I underestimate the frustration of being interested in a LI just to find out you aren't into her kinks, or worse, be rejected by her. My reasoning was that this would add personality and complexity to the characters. Not all girls in the game will bend backwards for you just because, like in 99% of the games. You actually have to have a personality that they like and can fall for. But I see your point about it potentially being a frustrating situation.

Maybe I let my frustration polarize my response. But honestly, I wasn't expecting my investment to be so unrewarding. I don't disagree with your goals, but I really do think that some sort of early warning that no matter your choices some LI is going to be a real hill climb would be helpful. I'm not saying you have to give a roadmap, but in games like this expectations are one of the keys.

I think at least I’m not lying to the players. I think this mechanic is well explained and people know what they are getting themselves in. That’s the best answer I can give to this point. If this is not the sort of game that a player might enjoy, I try to be as clear as possible so he can stop as early as possible and not waste his time.

You definitely are neither lying to players nor trying to mislead them. If you felt I implied that it was NOT my intention. Had I not read roughly half the comments in this thread before playing I would not have had the context to understand the in game explanations. You do describe the mechanics, but it's difficult to provide insight into how deeply they are embedded in the structure of the game in a few sentences as topics arise. Honestly, if it's possible to make it more clear, off the top of my head, I can't offer any suggestions. Your game's structure is VERY different from the overwhelming majority, and you don't want walls of text explaining those differences, so maybe it is what it is.

As for the hateful sex, you can avoid it without losing her, if you aren't into that sort of thing. But you can’t have a “soft” scene here, sorry. This is just for story reasons.

You can see this chapter establishing the Emma/MC relationship as one where they care for each other, but can’t articulate/admit their feelings and keep arguing instead. All the time. This, surprisingly, has its own charm, as you have found out. But that’s also the obstacle they need to overcome if they ever want to get into a respectful relationship. There’s so much sexual tension between them, but they can only deal with that by arguing and fighting. And that culminates with them even having sex while bashing each other. It’s the only way they can show they want each other. That's the "drama" they need to overcome.

Now they are the sort of people that argue, and fight, and run away at the sight of the first problem. They need to become the sort of people that can instead talk about the issues, and not just banging with the door and run away because they don't know how to deal with their feelings. It's easier to just run away. Being vulnerable and admitting you like someone else, it’s hard. You can get hurt. It’s easier to just attack the other person instead. I’m sure you have observed this kind of behavior/defense mechanism in other people. Maybe even in yourself. I know I have.

They need to become better people and overcome their flaws before having their "soft" scene. In the middle of a heat discussion, given what you know about them both, it wouldn't fit the characters to have such a scene.This was the time where they need to fall, so they can rise again later as better people. You want the end of the movie after 20 mins. They have a whole character arc to go through before that.

At least that’s the story I’m trying to tell. You have the right of nothing liking it. Or of saying that I’m doing a bad job as a writer if I have to explain it to you. I’d prefer if all of this subtext was kind of obvious for people playing the game.

Your game and your story to tell. I meant it when I said I support that. Once again thanks for the insight.

Deb isn’t the only girl with lewd scenes in chapter 2. I find it curious that the other one is barely mentioned. Perhaps because this game attracts the kind of people that like more hardcore kinks and that particular girl is innocent and has vanilla and “soft” scenes. Perhaps you might like her. Oops, maybe I am trying to convince you to keep playing the game

Okay. I'll keep going. I meant it when I said I was torn. There is a lot to like about your game. A helluva lot. Thanks for taking the time to respond. It's very much appreciated.

 

[Balthasar-Gelt]

Cheats & Gallery Unlocker Mod
DOWNLOAD:MEGA

Note: Gallery is locked or scenes you have played are unlocked as it would be . To unlock unseen scenes use the button Unlock Gallery in Cheats menu.

As always If you like my work considering supporting me on my

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and if you like the game consider supporting dev on

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Can you please update the mod?
Some scenes in the gallery are still locked.

 

[desmosome]

So I play for quite a long while and, at the end of that content, I'm presented with three unacceptable choices it's supposed to be okay that my only alternative is to walk away? Specifically from someone in whom I'm interested and from whom I do not wish to walk away. You actually have accentuated my point. I'll restate it for you. Investing all that time to be presented, in content I can't avoid, with three unrewarding options is NOT ENJOYABLE. Nor is it particularly entertaining.

What was unrewarding for you was immensely rewarding for me. You don't often see a volatile relationship like this play out in these games. Indeed, most of them are just your average romance or standard corruption. Very rarely do you see people actually having believable drama and interpersonal tensions with fleshed out backstories. The hate fuck was just the cherry on top. I've actually never seen sex in this type of context in a game before.

Maybe I let my frustration polarize my response. But honestly, I wasn't expecting my investment to be so unrewarding. I don't disagree with your goals, but I really do think that some sort of early warning that no matter your choices some LI is going to be a real hill climb would be helpful. I'm not saying you have to give a roadmap, but in games like this expectations are one of the keys.

I think MrSilver explained his reasoning quite well. Plus, the game didn't ever give the notion that MC's relationship with Emma would be immediately patched up with a loving romantic embrace at the end of chapter 1. That may be something you might expect from the games you usually play (which I would guess is of the good guy romance type) but this game seems way more grounded than the average romance story or anything else dealing with the types of kinks involved in the skill tree.

I think we can expect that the game won't be some basic romance, nor would it be a degenerative fetish dispenser like the skill tree might suggest. It's probably an attempt at trying to show the psychology of people in different circumstances in a realistic manner (fetishes included).

Both the Emma scene and the Deb scene were not something you see in most games. The context is so much deeper than the usual. Emma has been explained by the dev, so I want to talk about the Deb scene. The set up is already quite unique. A couple who wants to spice up their love life, but with opposing views on how to go about it. They still love each other clearly and want to work things through, but have fundamental differences. Carl cannot be a sub in bed like she wants, but he also wants to satisfy her. Some weird mental gymnastics and accidental cucking later, he develops an ironic fetish.

It's really hard to make a cuck in this type of arrangement such a sympathetic character, but I think this was achieved. You go with his request to be a bull, and role playing and reality kind of blends together everyone is kind of like "O...kay... that happened."

Note that this scenario already is so far from the norm when it comes to NTR, netori, netorase, cuckolding, swinging, or whatever. While most stories involving these themes are tropey, generic, or outlandish, this game produced a very human interaction between everyone. What I'm getting to is that we have a dev that is working on something quite unique in terms of porn game story telling. I wouldn't say he is the best writer in the technical sense (command of the English language), but he is one of the most creative/original devs in the genre of character dramas. Well, maybe we are just so used to low stakes romance, forced drama, or tropey corruption that a depiction of realistic character interactions comes off as original, heh. I'm prepared for the heavier kinks way down the line to lean on some tropes, but maybe I would even be surprised there.

I think demanding (not saying you demanded anything) changes in the story and character progression from such a dev is doing a disservice to everyone. Not every game will appeal to everyone. The correct thing to do is to move on to a different game if your dissatisfaction with the fundamental themes in the story and character arcs outweighs the things you enjoy about the it.

 

[Deleted member 3208170]

This was a very good feedback, thanks for taking your time to write it. I quite enjoy to discuss the game, especially with players that have different viewpoints than myself. It’s the only way to take in different views that can be used to improve the game. I’ll try to explain you my own points of views, but please don’t take any of this as me trying to convince you to liking my game or playing more, or that your points aren’t valid, or something like that. It’s just genuinely fun for me to argue about these topics, and I have like 3 days after the game is updated to talk to people about it, before this thread goes to hibernation once again and I'm all alone in my porncave working on the next chapter . So I always jump to the opportunity!

Cant let you go into hibernation. So let's go.

Deb isn’t the only girl with lewd scenes in chapter 2. I find it curious that the other one is barely mentioned. Perhaps because this game attracts the kind of people that like more hardcore kinks and that particular girl is innocent and has vanilla and “soft” scenes. Perhaps you might like her. Oops, maybe I am trying to convince you to keep playing the game

I like Lea. At the Moment, she is my favorite. But I have to admit in comparison to the other 2 this was very tame but beautiful stuff. Romantic, but... let's say it misses the oomph in comparison.

I completely agree with this and I will be using the skill system in ways that "reward" players that develop all personalities (to a certain extent), while "punishing" players that min-max certain stats and become kind of a "caricature" of a person by only choosing, for example, "manly" choices and being a "macho man". There's a time and a place to be sensitive and caring, or impetuous and a leader, or charismatic, or honorable, etc. When you look at the skill system, you don’t see what I see. Not all game mechanics can, or should, be introduced in chapter 1. Give me time to bring the system to its full potential. Of course you'll need to just take my word on this one, but believe me that we are on the same page here.

And this can become a problem. A gameplay problem.
See it this way. Your skills are all sex or kink related. The points you can earn during gameplay are most of the time earned by giving answers who are not sexually orientated.
I was playing the game and wanted to give sensitive answers a lot of the time. But I didn't need the Points.
Because I find the Kinks not arousing.

I say Romantic yes definitely. Sex Fantasy of course, who hasn't? But the rest, no.
Am I a Caricature now. I don't think so. But this skill tree "forces me" to take the other answer.
I wouldn't like to be punished because one out of 4 skill trees offers me very little. The other Trees are good developed for my playthrough.

It is difficult and as I mentioned before I don't have a solution as well.
Your project is ambitious and I like it.
At the Moment it is immersion vs gameplay vs personal Fetish of the guy or gal who plays your game.

 

[Mister_M]

And this can become a problem. A gameplay problem.
See it this way. Your skills are all sex or kink related. The points you can earn during gameplay are most of the time earned by giving answers who are not sexually orientated.
I was playing the game and wanted to give sensitive answers a lot of the time. But I didn't need the Points.
Because I find the Kinks not arousing.

I think the same. Very early in the game I counted how many pts I want for the kinks that interest me and no matter how I felt my MC should answer I sometimes chose, for example, cun option just to reach the amount of pts I wanted to reach. So very often my dialogue choices are not motivated by what the MC is saying, but what pts I will get. So I'm a kind of caricature too I guess. I think this could be avoided to some extent by not having dialogue options marked as sen/man/cun/hon, so the player would have to read them and decide which choice sounds better. I know that it won't solve this issue, cause I'd probably would check after every choice what pts I've gained and rollback to chose a different answer so I'll have the pts I want to, but it could help. But yeah, in general I also feel like I'm often choosing my options by looking at their colors and not at their content.

 

[desmosome]

I think the same. Very early in the game I counted how many pts I want for the kinks that interest me and no matter how I felt my MC should answer I sometimes chose, for example, cun option just to reach the amount of pts I wanted to reach. So very often my dialogue choices are not motivated by what the MC is saying, but what pts I will get. So I'm a kind of caricature too I guess. I think this could be avoided to some extent by not having dialogue options marked as sen/man/cun/hon, so the player would have to read them and decide which choice sounds better. I know that it won't solve this issue, cause I'd probably would check after every choice what pts I've gained and rollback to chose a different answer so I'll have the pts I want to, but it could help. But yeah, in general I also feel like I'm often choosing my options by looking at their colors and not at their content.

You can always just pick whatever dialogues you want and then cheat the points to unlock skills. That is just a personal solution and I imagine what you wanted was to give constructive criticism on the game mechanics.

I personally didn't have any problem because I am a cunning/manly guy. I could take some honor choices if I wanted since it isn't really opposed to how I am viewing the MC (even though I just cheated to get exhibition online lol). Nothing in the blue tree interests me, so I can just ignore that completely.

I can see why the skill tree doesn't sit right with some people though. The players who like being a sensitive goody goody MC but do not want to be a submissive doormat will probably find the blue tree atrocious. As far as I know, this group is not small. It might even be the majority going by how popular the good guy MC romantic dramas are. So there is indeed a problem if we want a flexible system that has something for everyone while maintaining a sense of immersion.

I think 90% of the blue tree being very clearly submissive might be a bit too much. I think half of them being of the romantic variety and half being submissive would suffice.

 

[jufot]

but do not want to be a submissive doormat

Heh, just this little titbit speaks volumes about your own proclivities. Submissive and doormat are entirely separate things with no correlation between them. Like, you wouldn't think manly meant manly asshole, would you?