VN Ren'Py Abandoned Nothing Is Forever [v0.7.3] [MrSilverLust]

[asehpe]

I quite like NiF, especially for its writing -- of all games here, this is the one with the most realistic characters (reminds me of both Karlson's Gambit [including the chess] and Estate: Dominate in that respect).

I am just a little curious: the first five chapters were very interested in the internal development of MC, coming out of his depressed shell. In comparison, Ch. 5 is apparently more concerned about him trying all kinds of kinks with all kinds of girls (with no apparent thought to what each girl would think if they knew he's dating several others at the same time...). Despite everything, even in the most 'honorable' routes, the MC seems remarkably unconcerned with that -- I get that 'everybody is free' and 'experimentation is great', but if MC is so concerned with his past unprofessional behavior (dating a client) that he decides to quit his profession, why wouldn't he worry about how each of the girls would react to knowing just how promiscuous he has been?... That doesn't feel right for his personality. Especially for Emma, who does harbor some insecurity (remember how she was jealous of Jen in Ch. 1...).

Also, is it my impression or is the game slowly dropping the 'am I a good person?' doubts that led to some excellent scenes in the first few characters (the three demons come to mind)? Sometimes it seems like the MC is no longer conflicted about that, sometimes it seems he is. What gives? It's such a deep and interesting game with a set of fascinating characters, I hope the author doesn't fall into the trap of just fitting in as many kinky sex scenes as possible? (Nothing against such scenes, but they leave my curiosity about the psychological development of the characters -- especially MC -- unsatisfied.)

And I wonder if the author is planning to delve deeper into the 'where do kinks come from' research the MC is starting -- it feels that this would be an interesting place to discuss the 'if I'm sexually submissive does this mean I hate myself?' stereotype. (Interesting also that the MC is a sexologist who, in principle, should be widely read on the topic, but he's succumbing to the temptation of feeling ashamed of his kinks -- see scene with Bri asking him about his kinks, present both on the manly and on the submissive paths). So--he knows that kink-shaming is bad, but can't suppress feelings of shame about his own kinks? And he doesn't even notice the contradiction? What gives?

Also, I'm quite curious about what Kim will do -- in the path in which you refuse to accept her proposal, she gets really pissed and storms out of MC's apartment declaring that she'll take revenge. What will she do?... Is this the coming storm?

So, all in all, I've seen a decrease in introspection for MC in this chapter. As if he somehow went back to fooling himself. Is that it? Is this a conscious decision of the author, rather than just an attempt to have MC experience more sex scenes and think less about them?... I hope not.

Great game, one that always leaves me thirsting for more. Can't wait for Ch. 7!

 

[Deleted member 53157]

The domination and maledom/machismo route of this game is poorly made and feels more like playing a guy who is LARPING the machismo angle than actual dominant male

 

[balvenie1401]

The domination and maledom/machismo route of this game is poorly made and feels more like playing a guy who is LARPING the machismo angle than actual dominant male

Yup, you're not the first to address this issue, he comes off as mosty insecure and insincere..
Unfortunately I get the overwhelming impression that the game is mainly geared towards sub content and I assume romance. It seems from the feedback that those routes are better written at least.
Cheers

 

[EUftl1]

To dev and all the team: guys, you're amazing!

Sorry for my English - it's not my native language.
It started like "another one adult novel" but quickly turned to the one of the most emotional experience along with The Witcher 3 for me. Moreover - the sex scenes were not the scenes that had the most impact on me.

I played Jen's storyline and was fully commited to it. Of course I tried another branches if they didn't broke Jen's route, but none of them gave me such immersion level and emotions as Jen's. The magic of her character and dialogs combined with music (really adds A LOT to immersion) and chess games just hit me like a truck. I had my eys wet couple of times, though I don't consider myself very emotional. I wanted to hug and carress her when she's upset or sad. I was happy when she was. I rooted every chess game she played and was afraid if she will make a mistake or not. I simply can't get enough of her and i think I fell in love.

I'm totally devasted now because Chapter 6 is ended (just as I was like 2 weeks after finishing The Withcer 3 with addons) and I won't be able to see her again and interact with her further for some time.

I wish I could see the game more centered on the main girlfriend with more events and interactions with her (i.e. like hiking, camping, dating, dinners etc). Or a pure mc+Jen+chess+some friends game going on and on and on with no end

It's 6 am and I finished first playthrough like 3 hours ago, but still can't sleep remembering all the moments with her...

PS: I will for sure try another Jen routes (at least to just live through it again) and other girls, but I need some time to come to my senses.

 

[MrSilverLust]

I played Jen's storyline and was fully commited to it. Of course I tried another branches if they didn't broke Jen's route, but none of them gave me such immersion level and emotions as Jen's.

Thanks for the kind words. Out of curiosity, which Jen path did you play?

PS: I will for sure try another Jen routes (at least to just live through it again) and other girls, but I need some time to come to my senses.

My first instinct is to advise against playing other Jen's paths. Or at least to think twice before doing so. It's just that, you probably won't like them. Trying other girls should be fine.

The reason for that is that characters are designed to be consistent within paths, but not necessarily across them. In some cases, it's like they aren't even the same person, and more like an alternative version of themselves that can behave differently, like different things, have different personality traits, memories, etc (I don't know if you have seen the tv show Fringe, but it'd be something like that).

Add to that that paths can be very different romantically and kinky wise, and you can see how you might really like a character in one path and hate it in another.

In fact, that's kind of the goal: design paths different enough that a given player really only likes one of them. And, at the same time, keep it consistent between each path and use as much as possible of common scenes to save on workload. It's like a carefully constructed illusion and playing different paths, especially if you end up not liking them, can shatter the illusion. And, like in any magic trick, some people might find it interesting to learn how a magic trick is done, while others might just lose that wow factor if they look behind the curtain.

 

[EUftl1]

Thanks for the kind words. Out of curiosity, which Jen path did you play?

The Dom one. But seriously the most impact was not of sex scenes and kinks explorations but from casual interactions. I even think that without all the sex stuff the outcome for me will be the same.

My first instinct is to advise against playing other Jen's paths. Or at least to think twice before doing so. It's just that, you probably won't like them. Trying other girls should be fine.

When i read this, my first thought was about Lea and I instantly imagined her chatting with MC in NF office, but then I imagined Jen coming to the scene and back in real life I bursted in tears just instantly.

Wow, just wow. I fully understand how strange it is logically and this is probably just a combination of my current life issues and your amazing work, but here we are. I should probably stay away from this game for a while at all. And see a therapist instead lol.

The reason for that is that characters are designed to be consistent within paths, but not necessarily across them. In some cases, it's like they aren't even the same person, and more like an alternative version of themselves that can behave differently, like different things, have different personality traits, memories, etc (I don't know if you have seen the tv show Fringe, but it'd be something like that).

Do you mean, that on different path not only the sex and kinks related dialogs are different but all the others too (like playing chess with a hustler or holidays ones). if so - I bring my sincere apologies for underestimating the amount of work you put in this project

In fact, that's kind of the goal: design paths different enough that a given player really only likes one of them. And, at the same time, keep it consistent between each path and use as much as possible of common scenes to save on workload. It's like a carefully constructed illusion and playing different paths, especially if you end up not liking them, can shatter the illusion. And, like in any magic trick, some people might find it interesting to learn how a magic trick is done, while others might just lose that wow factor if they look behind the curtain.

Yes, as an "IT guy" I think I'm slightly aware of how it's done but it honestly doesn't break the magic for me.

BTW - how heavy is the impact of "crush" and "in love" options in terms of interaction changes and content percentage related to a given character?

 

[Joshy92]

I really like that on the Jen share path you can still be kind & loving with her
Other games I have played with similar content the guy is mean or rude to the girl with no choice for the player

That path is done really well here imo

 

[DarknessDai]

I really like that on the Jen share path you can still be kind & loving with her
Other games I have played with similar content the guy is mean or rude to the girl with no choice for the player

That path is done really well here imo

i know right wish more games had sharing path like this game but sadly there are feeewwww

 

[Joshy92]

i know right wish more games had sharing path like this game but sadly there are feeewwww

Yeah, I have played a few games with stuff like that
But most games don't do it as well as this game imo

 

[DarknessDai]

Yeah, I have played a few games with stuff like that
But most games don't do it as well as this game imo

Joshy you need to make a game you are our only hope

 

[Joshy92]

Joshy you need to make a game you are our only hope

I would be hopeless lol
Its best to leave it to the professionals like MrSilverLust

 

[prostepanko]

This game was seriously one of the best constructed games in every mean possible. I myself study psychology and boy was he spot on in some cases. Bowing my head to you MrSilverLust and I hope to see more of your games in the future

 

[Jack Townsend]

This game was seriously one of the best constructed games in every mean possible. I myself study psychology and boy was he spot on in some cases. Bowing my head to you MrSilverLust and I hope to see more of your games in the future

I agree with you completely. I just wish he had put a little more Jung, and a little less Freud.

 

[osanaiko]

This game was seriously one of the best constructed games in every mean possible. I myself study psychology and boy was he spot on in some cases. Bowing my head to you MrSilverLust and I hope to see more of your games in the future

The best part is that MrSL is not a psychologist nor has he studied it at college. He did however do plenty of research before starting the game.

 

[asehpe]

Thanks for the kind words. Out of curiosity, which Jen path did you play?



My first instinct is to advise against playing other Jen's paths. Or at least to think twice before doing so. It's just that, you probably won't like them. Trying other girls should be fine.

The reason for that is that characters are designed to be consistent within paths, but not necessarily across them. In some cases, it's like they aren't even the same person, and more like an alternative version of themselves that can behave differently, like different things, have different personality traits, memories, etc (I don't know if you have seen the tv show Fringe, but it'd be something like that).

Add to that that paths can be very different romantically and kinky wise, and you can see how you might really like a character in one path and hate it in another.

In fact, that's kind of the goal: design paths different enough that a given player really only likes one of them. And, at the same time, keep it consistent between each path and use as much as possible of common scenes to save on workload. It's like a carefully constructed illusion and playing different paths, especially if you end up not liking them, can shatter the illusion. And, like in any magic trick, some people might find it interesting to learn how a magic trick is done, while others might just lose that wow factor if they look behind the curtain.

Well, it's a very well done sequence of events that you've come up with here. But I wonder if I should ask you directly -- is the decrease in MC's introspection some kind of character building? I mean, the last release had the MC get involved with various girls doing various, at a certain point contradictory kinks; for a guy who started out trying to get out of his near-depression, I get the feeling that he wouldn't be as ready to go out with various different girls. Especially his suggestion to Kim that she stop using Pete and switch to him (MC) instead seemed almost jarring to me. It feels less like a guy trying to figure out his kinks and more like a guy trying to get as many girls as possible (the 'traditional male stereotype'). I'm just curious, is this going somewhere? Do you have plans for the future development of MC, now that he has submitted his Ph.D. proposal?

 

[MrSilverLust]

Do you mean, that on different path not only the sex and kinks related dialogs are different but all the others too (like playing chess with a hustler or holidays ones). if so - I bring my sincere apologies for underestimating the amount of work you put in this project

No, if anything it might be the other way around. Events that you might think you influenced with your choices happen no matter what and it cheapens the value. Or that you thought that a character really share the mc's (and yours by extension) kinks, just to find out she'd say yes to anything. To be fair, this doesn't seem to be the case for you, so perhaps I'm barking at the wrong tree and you'd actually have plenty of fun trying other routes. Everyone is different.

But, I think this next quote is also a good example of this kind of disenchantment with the game happening if you try too many routes. So, I'll answer that to continue this discussion.

I mean, the last release had the MC get involved with various girls doing various, at a certain point contradictory kinks; for a guy who started out trying to get out of his near-depression, I get the feeling that he wouldn't be as ready to go out with various different girls. Especially his suggestion to Kim that she stop using Pete and switch to him (MC) instead seemed almost jarring to me. It feels less like a guy trying to figure out his kinks and more like a guy trying to get as many girls as possible (the 'traditional male stereotype').

I'm not sure if I find this criticism valid: the MC only goes out with various different girls, or indulges in contradictory kinks, or suggests to Kim that she should stop using Pete and switch to him instead, or tries to get as many girls as possible, or do the things you're frowning upon if you choose to. If you see Nif as a story about a guy that is trying to get out of his near-depression and is not ready to go out with various different girls, why did you make all those choices that go against the way you think the MC would behave?


From my POV, within the very limited range of motion that a AVN like this can give to their players, I think NiF does a good job at giving players agency for telling their own story and interpreting it in their own way. Let me explain.

Spoiler: huge explanation

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Now, you may say that some of these interpretations are wacky as fuck and don't seem realistic at all. While others are more relatable to you or how you see the MC. To that I'd suggest you find one timeline that you like and tell that story. Just because you think some of these other timelines are unfun/unrealistic doesn't mean that everyone will think the same. Should I block those options just because you think they are unrealistic?


But this is also the reason why, when I see something like this, where someone found a set of events they really liked:

I played Jen's storyline and was fully commited to it. Of course I tried another branches if they didn't broke Jen's route, but none of them gave me such immersion level and emotions as Jen's.

I tend to recommend them to not poke around too much. Because they can definitely find some dark timelines there where the characters behave in ways they don't like, or seem to make any sense to them, or change the way they look at them, or have kinks they don't like, etc.

 

[Joshy92]

I know it might sound silly to some
But in my path, I consider the mc & Jen to be deeply in love with each other
even after Jen had sex with Carl

To me that doesn't diminish the love they have for each other
It strengthens their bond imo

 

[Mister_M]

Since we never see MC doing things with Mel and we meet him after all that drama, or most of it anyway, I never had any deep consideration about this (past) chapter of his life. My MC - in a way - is not the same guy who did all these things in the past; he doesn't try to heal or to punish himself or do anything based on his past actions, because I try to make him more like me (on my main playthrough at least). So while I appreciate that part of the plot, the internal monologues, etc. they do not inform my choices in a game a single bit; I rejected Mel dream sequence at the beginning, cause I don't care too much about MC's past beyond what I see in a game, so I don't want to see him too attached to it either. My MC mostly tries to involve himself in the things I do or would like to do myself. I kinda treat NiF as close as I can to an RPG game.

Of course for the general plot it could mean that it all can be interpreted as him trying to punish himself - as my main playthrough focuses on femdom (without Kim tho) - but if I would to look at my MC's actions in the context of the whole plot I'd say he became a guy who found his freedom in accepting what he really likes, in letting some of the pressure move away from him, and started - or slowly starts - enjoying (exploring) his newfound (but most likely always existing within him) kinks in a way that doesn't harm anyone.

 

[Bombmaster]

I know it might sound silly to some
But in my path, I consider the mc & Jen to be deeply in love with each other
even after Jen had sex with Carl

To me that doesn't diminish the love they have for each other
It strengthens their bond imo

Why I'm not surprised you did share Jen.


Hurt me knowing she coom by cucking us easier than by normal sex(control kink)
made me rationalize that the Canon Jen path is sub cuck. Woe is me.

 

[Joshy92]

Why I'm not surprised you did share Jen.

View attachment 3075745

I loved that whole scene it was awesome.

Plus, I thought it was romantic
I could tell Jen & the mc love each other very much