VN Ren'Py Abandoned Nothing Is Forever [v0.7.3] [MrSilverLust]

[Vleder]

Yeah so if nobody says anything, we have to guess he's still pausing

He's still pausing, I'm still hoping...

 

[Xantoser]

Seriously, the good games get abandoned so often, I guess the people who put some actual effort into their projects end up burning out.

The biggest issue with these games is that they're made by inexperienced developers who drastically underestimate how much time and manpower a full game actually takes. They jump into projects clearly meant for full teams, and then wonder why they burn out or abandon them.
To make things worse, there's a complete lack of understanding of how branching narrative complexity works. People keep adding choices upon choices, doubling the content in every chapter, as if they’ve never heard of a geometric sequence. This kind of design is doomed from the start unless you either cut down hard on the number of branches or hire a full team.

But it’s the community that throws money at dreamers with zero track record - then acts surprised when nothing gets finished. So they get exactly what they pay for.

 

[J3bac]

Does anyone know requirments to show "hand-holding porn as joke" to Emma? Game only shows for option 1 and 2 what I need or needed to do.

 

[osanaiko]

Does anyone know requirments to show "hand-holding porn as joke" to Emma? Game only shows for option 1 and 2 what I need or needed to do.

The "hand holding porn" option is available as follows:

In Chapter 4, win the Poker competition, then:

- Choose "Task: Ask her to admit she liked sleeping with you" followed by "Tell her you'll think of something"

OR

- Choose "Tell her to relax, you'll go easy on her"

 

[assman1337]

MrSilverLust hope you can come back

 

[KammerJ]

To make things worse, there's a complete lack of understanding of how branching narrative complexity works. People keep adding choices upon choices, doubling the content in every chapter, as if they’ve never heard of a geometric sequence. This kind of design is doomed from the start unless you either cut down hard on the number of branches or hire a full team.

Every new/aspiring developer should read your comment!

There is a huge difference in writing a (significantly) branching plot and in just doing sex scenes with some variables or some "flavour choices".

But tbh, i understand why developers dream of creating a amazing and deep VN with lots of very different branches.

 

[FinrayB]

MrSilverLust hope you can come back

Or at the very least... Offer a meaningful explanation to his backers as to why he gave up cut and run.
If he didn't do that already, that is. idk, i wouldnt know im not a patron.

 

[_user]

But tbh, i understand why developers dream of creating a amazing and deep VN with lots of very different branches.

What you want are choices with as little branching as possible, in other words give the player the illusion of choice where every path leads back to the main road. Proper branching is just way too expensive to be sustainable.

 

[JSimon8668]

What you want are choices with as little branching as possible, in other words give the player the illusion of choice where every path leads back to the main road. Proper branching is just way too expensive to be sustainable.

I don't think that treating the players like idiots who can't tell the difference between choice and illusion of choice is the right answer. There will always be a place for ambitious projects, as players we need to be more patient and understand that most of those projects will not be fully realized. That is the nature of the ambitious; high risk for high reward is kind of how everything works.

The other alternative is that developers make niche projects with fewer branches that target less broad audiences. Personally I am glad some developers do one and some do the other.

It is also kind of a strange attitude that everyone has where if the game is not completely finished, all time spent on it is considered a waste. Personally I enjoyed this game up to this point. Would love for it to continue, but that doesn't mean it was any less good to play so far.

 

[_user]

I don't think that treating the players like idiots who can't tell the difference between choice and illusion of choice is the right answer.

The thing about illusion of choice is that when done correctly you can't tell the difference. That's what all modern game development is about, you get twigs that change a couple of lines here and there, and a unique slideshow at the end depending on the choices you made. Anything more is asking the developer to shoot themselves in the foot because the alternative is reducing the amount of content you get, and let's be frank here nobody wants to buy a 1 hour 80$ game no matter how unique the experience is.

 

[Gicoo]

The thing about illusion of choice is that when done correctly you can't tell the difference. That's what all modern game development is about, you get twigs that change a couple of lines here and there, and a unique slideshow at the end depending on the choices you made. Anything more is asking the developer to shoot themselves in the foot because the alternative is reducing the amount of content you get, and let's be frank here nobody wants to buy a 1 hour 80$ game no matter how unique the experience is.

You are overgeneralizing. There are many complex games with routes, branches and paths that are extinguished and vastly different from each other. True, you can trick and should even condense/trim as much as possible until only the worthwhile content remains, but that doesn't exclude from having options.

 

[_user]

You are overgeneralizing. There are many complex games with routes, branches and paths that are extinguished

I'm definitely exaggerating a bit to make my point, but no not really. The games with a lot of branching are usually short and incentivize replaying as much as possible because people want value for their buck.

 

[KammerJ]

I'm definitely exaggerating a bit to make my point, but no not really. The games with a lot of branching are usually short and incentivize replaying as much as possible because people want value for their buck.

You guys might also consider that the branches discussion also includes a complete change in Genre/Medium.
Text based games without branches (not to be confused with choices in general) is the difference between a Kinetic Novel (usualy no branches, famous example Poliphonica) and a Visual Novel (branches, infamous example School Days).

 

[Canto Forte]

There are countless ways to extend gameplay to oinfinity:
Assassin creed Valhalla had repurposed bases ad nauseam, God of War Ragnarok has repurposed fights ad nauseam, Shadows has the same base-buster mechanic for each new area you unlock, Andromeda has male MC, female MC, love interests more than many games around here, a branching stat tree that sprung many branches and repetitive planetary missions to fill the runtime.

These are all planed out paths where MC only gets to choose when he gets on them, like park attractions in any theme park with water slides or rollecoasters: you can hop on this or that track and the game will fly your through to the end on that particular plot line.

This game could at any time tie all strains with parties, now that everyone knows everyone, MC in this or that group of girls, this or that tournament: either Chess, or debate, or cosplay, or any number of adventures once MC knows this or that girl more and can organize, using many characters in collective venues where many plot threads get tied up and make the game.

You guys might also consider that the branches discussion also includes a complete change in Genre/Medium.
Text based games without branches (not to be confused with choices in general) is the difference between a Kinetic Novel (usualy no branches, famous example Poliphonica) and a Visual Novel (branches, infamous example School Days).

I'm definitely exaggerating a bit to make my point, but no not really. The games with a lot of branching are usually short and incentivize replaying as much as possible because people want value for their buck.

The other alternative is that developers make niche projects with fewer branches that target less broad audiences. Personally I am glad some developers do one and some do the other.

Developer can even do dedicated updates with events for this or that girl: update v0.8.8 fatures the events with Gini, Amelia, Coco and Sienna. One update could finish the game on the canon route of MC hooked up with either his crush from university or with the chess player or with the gym freak - those are the major threads in the game and such groupings could work to make reasonable updates for reasonable story progression.

 

[omen777]

Developer can even do dedicated updates with events for this or that girl: update v0.8.8 fatures the events with Gini, Amelia, Coco and Sienna. One update could finish the game on the canon route of MC hooked up with either his crush from university or with the chess player or with the gym freak - those are the major threads in the game and such groupings could work to make reasonable updates for reasonable story progression.

I strongly agree with this. When a game is so advanced making progrss in some branchs, with some girl is uptade enough. If you don't like that path, didn't choose that girl well you wait for the next one where your choices will be updated.
This game is really good so I hope someday someone willcontinue it.

 

[HoM11]

If you don't like that path, didn't choose that girl well you wait for the next one where your choices will be updated.

Some people (I can't give any estimates, and, anyone who does, is pulling numbers out of their ass) really don't like that (Myself included but I am patient). Especially in a game with such diverse kinks and fetishes. Let's say you're only interested in being submissive with Deb. It really doesn't feel good when you wait, say, 2-3 months, see and update for the game aaaand… nope, it's a Jen update. 2-3 months more — it's Lea. Another 2-3 months — Kim says hello. Even though you might wait the same amount of time overall as when all paths are updated at the same time, subjectively it kinda sucks to see everyone but yourself get the treats.
Also, it just makes it so that people have less reason to sub to patreon when they know that the next several updates won't have anything for them.

 

[omen777]

Some people (I can't give any estimates, and, anyone who does, is pulling numbers out of their ass) really don't like that (Myself included but I am patient). Especially in a game with such diverse kinks and fetishes. Let's say you're only interested in being submissive with Deb. It really doesn't feel good when you wait, say, 2-3 months, see and update for the game aaaand… nope, it's a Jen update. 2-3 months more — it's Lea. Another 2-3 months — Kim says hello. Even though you might wait the same amount of time overall as when all paths are updated at the same time, subjectively it kinda sucks to see everyone but yourself get the treats.
Also, it just makes it so that people have less reason to sub to patreon when they know that the next several updates won't have anything for them.

Well depends but if you play the game for only one girl with a specific fetish well yes that's not viable but I would say in that case you don't really like the game and searching another game is then the thing to do. Of course it also depends of how long it takes for each release...

 

[HoM11]

Well depends but if you play the game for only one girl with a specific fetish well yes that's not viable but I would say in that case you don't really like the game and searching another game is then the thing to do. Of course it also depends of how long it takes for each release...

Hmmm. Well, thanks for opening my eyes that I didn't actually like one of my favorite games. Or maybe I half-liked it, since I was interested in 2 girls... Actually, how many girls do I need to be interested in in order to be considered liking the game?

 

[omen777]

Hmmm. Well, thanks for opening my eyes that I didn't actually like one of my favorite games. Or maybe I half-liked it, since I was interested in 2 girls... Actually, how many girls do I need to be interested in in order to be considered liking the game?

Well I don't know. Depends of you. If you like the game I'm guessing some progress in it would do your jam (even 1 girl every 2/3 months). It's never enough of course, developpers should work 24/7 for delivering free game.

 

[Joshy92]

I was telling this to my friends this the other day but out of all the games I have played that have that big yellow prefix this hurts the most.

It was just heating up for me on the Jen route I play, and I still check this thread often hoping to see news, but instead I just get upset.