VN Ren'Py Abandoned Nothing Is Forever [v0.7.3] [MrSilverLust]

[Joshy92]

I was telling this to my friends this the other day but out of all the games I have played that have that big yellow prefix this hurts the most.

It was just heating up for me on the Jen route I play, and I still check this thread often hoping to see news, but instead I just get upset.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

What you want are choices with as little branching as possible, in other words give the player the illusion of choice where every path leads back to the main road. Proper branching is just way too expensive to be sustainable.

Nah i agree with this guy...it's just a reality of avn game design where individual renders have to be produced for each route. So the best way to do it is a few branches then a bunch of common core scenes- gives players the feeling of variety without ridiculous production times.

 

[Turret]

Nah i agree with this guy...it's just a reality of avn game design where individual renders have to be produced for each route. So the best way to do it is a few branches then a bunch of common core scenes- gives players the feeling of variety without ridiculous production times.

Hi again!
I agree with you on the route design. You can have many branching paths with lots of permutations if you keep a lot of common scene setups, where the differences are shown mainly by text and maybe a couple specific renders. If you go for specific unique renders for all possible routes all the time, this will fail one day due to excessive rendering demands.

 

[Shiko200]

I wish this game gets revived. It looks sooo good.

 

[camube]

It's coming up on a year since the last update and given the timeline, I replayed the opening scene again, where MC's former patient and lover (whose name I unfortunately can't remember) introduces the mechanics and concepts behind the choices and character directions. And I was once again moved by how well constructed this little intro/tutorial is.

It cleverly combines the explanation of making story choices with the central theme of "what kind of man are you?" to convey a simple but powerful message: you are the sum of all your choices and actions, and the story will be moulded by the kind of man you choose to be, and thus, the kind of man you are. And there are no right or wrong ways to choose. But you do have to choose.

The familiar way she speaks to us as she introduces all these ideas, the gentle push for us to go on and make these choices, move forward, and go on with our life, forgetting about the past, forgetting about her in the process... It's incredibly effective at giving a taste of the kind of writing style, thematic exploration, and emotional punch that this game offers.

There is an elegance in the simplicity and effectiveness of this intro where every element works to build the overarching sentiments evoked by the intro: the playful yet also wistful way she asks how we would win a girl like her over, the collection of thematically resonant passages exemplifying each of the character pillars, the tender, encouraging tone of the conversation, tied together by the beautiful instrumental track Dear Friend by Alcaknight (one of my 2 favourite tracks from the entire game).

This isn't the best, or most well-written, or most emotionally impactful game I've played on this site. But the intro is the most cohesive, well-thought out, well executed, and emotionally poignant piece out of all of them, including the ones I rate higher overall, so much so that I come back and replay this scene and this scene alone just to revisit how it makes me feel. I truly hope that Mr. Silverlust can finish this game because a game like this deserves a good ending.

Yeah this game was good but also from the very start i was wary with how many different skills there is inside the game.

The biggest issue with these games is that they're made by inexperienced developers who drastically underestimate how much time and manpower a full game actually takes. They jump into projects clearly meant for full teams, and then wonder why they burn out or abandon them.
To make things worse, there's a complete lack of understanding of how branching narrative complexity works. People keep adding choices upon choices, doubling the content in every chapter, as if they’ve never heard of a geometric sequence. This kind of design is doomed from the start unless you either cut down hard on the number of branches or hire a full team.

But it’s the community that throws money at dreamers with zero track record - then acts surprised when nothing gets finished. So they get exactly what they pay for.

multiple games that i liked gets abandoned, and for a few of them i think branching complexity plays a part.
even the games that keeps being developed finds it longer and longer to release a chapter due to increasing branches

Or at the very least... Offer a meaningful explanation to his backers as to why he gave up cut and run.
If he didn't do that already, that is. idk, i wouldnt know im not a patron.

if patrons pay $20 or some amount (i dont rmmbr anymore), patrons get an itchio game key so those who are still a patron of him after getting the key probably do so because they want to.

 

[kartolas]

 

[Ayhsel]

multiple games that i liked gets abandoned, and for a few of them i think branching complexity plays a part.
even the games that keeps being developed finds it longer and longer to release a chapter due to increasing branches

It's the curse of dimensionality. By giving too many relevant choices, you make the game tree too wide, which makes it very hard to make it grow in length for each route.

I do believe this game was doing better than others in that terms thou, as while there were many routes, it seemed to follow a main route regardless.

Real pity it is abandoned, game was really good.

 

[hoshin0119]

Are they seriously still selling an abandoned game on Steam? And even putting it on sale during the Summer Sale?
If the developer has given up on the game, shouldn't it be taken down from Steam?

 

[osanaiko]

Are they seriously still selling an abandoned game on Steam? And even putting it on sale during the Summer Sale?
If the developer has given up on the game, shouldn't it be taken down from Steam?

Is this your first time seeing Early Access games on steam? There's literally 10000s of games in the same state as N.I.F. - maybe in progress, maybe not, with no announcement from the developer. Early Access = Buyer Beware.

Secondly, leaving aside the fact that the main story is not concluded and we don't know if it will ever be finished, you cannot argue that there is zero value in the existing 7 chapters. Many people would likely be happy to enjoy the several hours (and potentially dozens more exploring different routes) of high quality VN gameplay that is available for the low low price of $14.99

And finally: we have no "official" statement from MrSilverLust as to his intentions for the game. We know that he is still alive because he logs in to Patreon every month and disables the charge for existing patrons. Personally, I am conducting regular animal sacrifice rituals and praying to the dark Gods of Lust, begging that whatever issue has arisen in his life will be resolved and that he will return.

 

[hoshin0119]

Is this your first time seeing Early Access games on steam? There's literally 10000s of games in the same state as N.I.F. - maybe in progress, maybe not, with no announcement from the developer. Early Access = Buyer Beware.

Secondly, leaving aside the fact that the main story is not concluded and we don't know if it will ever be finished, you cannot argue that there is zero value in the existing 7 chapters. Many people would likely be happy to enjoy the several hours (and potentially dozens more exploring different routes) of high quality VN gameplay that is available for the low low price of $14.99

And finally: we have no "official" statement from MrSilverLust as to his intentions for the game. We know that he is still alive because he logs in to Patreon every month and disables the charge for existing patrons. Personally, I am conducting regular animal sacrifice rituals and praying to the dark Gods of Lust, begging that whatever issue has arisen in his life will be resolved and that he will return.

Players buy games to experience the full story and reach the ending — not to play something that abruptly stops halfway through. While the seven available chapters aren't without value, if the game ends up being abandoned like AOA Academy, who would knowingly purchase it? I believe most people who already bought the game wouldn’t have done so if they had known it wouldn’t be completed.

Also, the price listed on Steam is far from cheap. For an AVN, it's equivalent to the full price of many completed games. Prices vary by region, of course, but in my country, this game costs the same as Summer’s Gone. And that’s a game with over 12,000 renders and a complete season — yet it's still considered Early Access.

You could argue Summer’s Gone isn’t fully complete either since only Season 1 is finished. But let me give you another comparison: Bare Witness, which is a completed game with over 14,000 renders, is currently cheaper than this game that's still in Early Access.

If the developer truly has abandoned development, then this game should no longer be sold on Steam.
That said, like you, I hope the developer hasn’t given up. My intention isn’t to attack the developer — as an AVN player, what I really want is for the game to be finished.

 

[osanaiko]

I get where you are coming from, but there's a fundamental gap in expectation here.

In my mind, signing up to a monthly payment to an artist on patreon (et al) or becoming a pre-release customer by buying in early access on steam are both demonstrating support for the creator's ongoing efforts. It should be considered the same as dropping some money in the hat of a street musician - to show appreciation and encourage the artist (and other potential artists who observe what you have done) to keep making cool music.

Supporting an artist on Patreon is NOT the same as buying a contract for guaranteed delivery of unspecified future rewards.

Buying an Early Access game is by definition purchasing something that the developer states is not complete.

If you want to remove the risk of not seeing a completed product, then you should only buy games which are *sold* as "completed".

If we want to get into the moral obligation of a creator to not take money if they already know they'll never release another update... I can agree that actively "milking patrons" is not too distant from a type of moral fraud. But MrSL is NOT charging any of his patrons at the moment, and stopped doing so as soon as he realized he was not going to meet his forecast delivery. With respect to the Steam listing (which is almost entirely targeted at the "noob-normie" horny gamers that are outside the demographic of F95 users), my argument from before still stands: there is substantial value to be received for the 14.99 price. If you don't think it is justified, then you should not personally buy it. Let others make their own decision, caveat emptor.

Finally, it's irrelevant what is the price or number of renders of other games - each purchase is made independently by the buyer who is making their own decision as to whether the value of the dollars they exchange is more or less than the expected value they will get from the product. If the product is mis-priced compared to it's "intrinsic value" (which of course does not exist for a digital artwork), then the market will decide.

 

[hoshin0119]

I get where you are coming from, but there's a fundamental gap in expectation here.

In my mind, signing up to a monthly payment to an artist on patreon (et al) or becoming a pre-release customer by buying in early access on steam are both demonstrating support for the creator's ongoing efforts. It should be considered the same as dropping some money in the hat of a street musician - to show appreciation and encourage the artist (and other potential artists who observe what you have done) to keep making cool music.

Supporting an artist on Patreon is NOT the same as buying a contract for guaranteed delivery of unspecified future rewards.

Buying an Early Access game is by definition purchasing something that the developer states is not complete.

If you want to remove the risk of not seeing a completed product, then you should only buy games which are *sold* as "completed".

If we want to get into the moral obligation of a creator to not take money if they already know they'll never release another update... I can agree that actively "milking patrons" is not too distant from a type of moral fraud. But MrSL is NOT charging any of his patrons at the moment, and stopped doing so as soon as he realized he was not going to meet his forecast delivery. With respect to the Steam listing (which is almost entirely targeted at the "noob-normie" horny gamers that are outside the demographic of F95 users), my argument from before still stands: there is substantial value to be received for the 14.99 price. If you don't think it is justified, then you should not personally buy it. Let others make their own decision, caveat emptor.

Finally, it's irrelevant what is the price or number of renders of other games - each purchase is made independently by the buyer who is making their own decision as to whether the value of the dollars they exchange is more or less than the expected value they will get from the product. If the product is mis-priced compared to it's "intrinsic value" (which of course does not exist for a digital artwork), then the market will decide.

I understand what you mean, and I have no intention of arguing with you over this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I just wanted to say that — as you mentioned — if purchasing an Early Access game on Steam is also a form of "support," similar to Patreon, then just as the developer stopped accepting support on Patreon after realizing they could no longer continue development, they should also stop allowing purchases on Steam if development has ceased.

A good example of this would be This Time, which was removed from sale once development had stopped.

People who only use Steam have no way of knowing that this game had already been abandoned over a year ago — just like I didn’t.
So if they still want to keep selling the game despite development being halted, they should have at least announced clearly that there would be no further updates. That way, potential buyers can make an informed decision for themselves.

But continuing to sell a permanently unfinished game to people who don’t even realize it’s been abandoned — that, to me, feels no different from fraud.
If someone knows the game has been discontinued and still chooses to buy it, that’s entirely their decision — and I have no issue with that.

 

[Sir Weshmish]

What do you guys think. Is it worth for a newbie to be playing this game now. Or I'll be leaving with dread of wanting more.

 

[Meiri]

What do you guys think. Is it worth for a newbie to be playing this game now. Or I'll be leaving with dread of wanting more.

The story and the characters are good, but it's incomplete and it ends when it was getting even more interesting.
There is still plenty of content to enjoy, but it doesn't look like he will finish the story.

 

[osanaiko]

What do you guys think. Is it worth for a newbie to be playing this game now. Or I'll be leaving with dread of wanting more.

YES YES YES.

I am (ahem) a little biased... but honestly, there are no more than a handful of games on this site that have the depth of character development as good as this one. Just make sure you are the type who likes to read and not just look at the pictures.

It's not "walls of text", but it does have relatively a lot of dialogue. And the pictures are not bad, but that's not the best part of this game. The BEST part is how the characters speak to each other and interact in a way that feels like a quality slice-of-life adult stage drama - that also has very hot sexy times!

If you want to feel like playing a MC who is both smart and emotionally damaged, and who actually cares about the people around him, then this is the game for you. Or if you want to play a MC who is smart but also filled with self-loathing and acting self-destructively, then again, this game is for you. And there are still more variations!

There are genuinely several different ways you can choose to make your way through this story, each one focusing on one (or more!) LIs, and even within those route choices there are variations of sub, dom, and romance paths.

It's true that the dev has "vanished" and the game has now been left languishing two or three chapters short of a conclusion... but as Tennyson said... "’Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all," - and boy-o-boy, I do love this fucking game. And despite how the situation ended up, I don't regret for a second that I spent 100s of hours proofreading and editing the game in collaboration with MrSL ( come back bro!)

TL;DR: Nothing Is Forever is 5 stars, highly recommended, and I'm happy it came into my life. Play it, you won't regret it.

 

[GetOutOfMyLab]

but as Tennyson said... "’Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all," - and boy-o-boy, I love this fucking game.

 

[mtran.hs]

So... he won't come back? Haven't heard any news. I hate silence treatment man.
It's ok if he decides to leave it. But just say the word.

 

[Joshy92]

I'm the opposite. I'd rather not have found a game if it's only going to end up abandoned.

 

[camube]

I'm the opposite. I'd rather not have found a game if it's only going to end up abandoned.

same!

i don't like playing games, being invested in the story continuation, and then later down the line finding out it's abandoned.

on the other hand, i'm fine playing already abandoned games when i know from the get-go it's already abandoned though.

 

[ViperGts151]

The odd thing about it is the dev has gone completly radio silent for quite some time which isn't unusal for this dev though not normally this long, yet still logs into patreon each month to pause billing my guess is there is probably something going on in their private life thats delayed development of the game and they don't want to post about it.