VN Ren'Py NTR'ed by My Friend [v0.13.1] [NTR.ai]

[slavegal]

From your words its clear you dont really know what Netorare is about

I don't? Maybe...I just happened to be able to read some Japanese --- the semantic origin of "NTR"

This is from a Japanese dictionary. You can use Google to translate it.

寝取られ(Forced Cheating ?*--- netorare japanese pronunciation )*
142
ねとられ

自分の配偶者や恋人、または友達以上恋人未満の相手が第三者と性的関係を持つことを示した言葉。対義語は「寝取り」。


寝取り(initial Cheating --- netori Japanese pronunciation ) usually refers to a woman cheating on a man willingly; in Japanese, it's the antonym of netorare*
50
ねとり

元は他者の配偶者や恋人と性的関係を持つことを示した言葉。対義語は「寝取られ」。

寝取らせ (Cockold --- Netorase Japanese pronunciation)
パートナーに第三者と故意に性行為に及んでもらいそれを眺める嗜好。

* Edited by me

Netorare, netori, and netorase have very similar pronunciation in Japanese. So, we: YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! WE KNOW THE MEANING of NeToRare (NeToRi or NeToRase). I probably won't say I know precisely what NTR means, because it is a phrase that contains different meanings of three Japanese terms (I did say it's confusing, didn't I?).

And, no references, evidence, or research show us that those three types of NTR are highly related to "guilty", semantically or culturally. The only necessary element for NTR is "cheating" or "cuckolding". So, please stop assuming.

Edited: It seems someone had already done the homework for us.
https://f95zone.to/threads/in-depth...-netorase.83477/#lg=attachment1209768&slide=0

 

[slavegal]

Then after a long while, just to torment Blake, send his penis/balls back to him (Taxidermy).

reminds me of sadism, again, it still has nothing to do with NTR

 

[slavegal]

Well, the MC is the main view in most of these games and even in this one, "All views" is the only way you see the FPOV perspective. The base of the story is that from the person being cheated on, not the cheater.

There are some NTR games where you play both sides, though that would be self cucking and entirely defeats the purpose of the concept of Netorare.

To be honest, as I said I see most of the NTR genre in the west to be all about kinks, and really not much about the concept itself. You either have the cuck/humiliation scenarios, the BBC humiliation, etc... and all of them are written in a way to maximize for the "cheaters" kink and so true NTR gets lost in the need to push the fetishes.

There are some NTR games where the entire game is framed from the MCs view and there isn't any outside view (ie you don't get to see the thinking or actions of anyone outside of that perspective). Are you saying that when you play those, you still place yourself into the shoes of the cheating character? Would this change if the female was the MC being cheated on?

You really should try it sometime and get the perspective of the betrayed. Word of warning though, if you are able to draw into the story, really connect with the characters and self insert/identify with the MC, the betrayal will be devastating. You might even find it changes your mood for a few days while you get your head around it.

Actually, I recommend Love & Jealousy:

https://f95zone.to/threads/love-jealousy-act-2-professor-amethyst-games.252651/

Not a traditional NTR type, it is pretty much its own thing, VERY story heavy and heady with the psychological issues of such. Great story, a bit of a train wreck at times, but much more realistic MC in his thinking and actions, though... he will be put through suffering that is pretty harsh and the FMC doesn't get to magically escape her actions, she will have to face them and deal with the MCs response. Not a revenge type, but just a massive struggle between two really messed up people who have serious trauma from their past.

I won't lie that I like the game from the link above...it is neither NTR(cheating) nor cockold, it's mentally unhealthy and narratively miserable.

 

[NTR.ai]

Everyone enjoys the stories for different reasons, nothing wrong with the discussion concerning it. Nobody is "demanding" the game change, merely giving an opinion on how it is provided. Lets be honest, the story is nothing more than FMC realizes she is a whore and chases "magic big dick".

You are right, this is a fantasy porn game, but I would say it is more cuckold/humiliation porn than NTR. Sure, some find that "sexy" (I can't relate). NTR is about the girl being stolen, it has more of a story focus in its origins than simply "Whore bangs dude and humiliates their love" and how that is developed is important in the concept.

To be honest, when you say “Everyone enjoys the stories for different reasons,” it just comes across as an attempt to sound rational and objective. But everything else you’ve written shows that you don’t really believe people’s preferences should be respected. And about your definition of “demanding”—if you’re using negative and subjective language in a discussion, that means you’re treating something as wrong. And don’t tell me you don’t think “wrong” should be corrected. So stop pretending you’re being objective—you clearly have strong subjective opinions and are demanding that an NTR story should look exactly the way you believe a VN or NTR should be.

Also, let’s not forget—NTR comes from Japanese works. I’ve actually designed quite a few scenes and plots inspired by Japanese porn or VNs, including the one you called “silly” (and yeah, everyone enjoys stories for different reasons—but you clearly see some of those reasons as silly). Yet you claim some of those elements “aren’t NTR.” Honestly, I find that pretty funny. What’s even funnier is how so many Japanese VNs get high ratings on DLsite but low scores on this site. So apparently, Japanese-style NTR doesn’t always match the taste of players from other countries—and that’s totally fine because I truly believe that everyone can have their preferences. But don’t act like only the version you prefer is the authentic NTR and what you prefer is superior than other people.

I haven’t taken part in the discussion here for a while, because I noticed so many people like to argue about what NTR “should” look like, what story "should" look like, or what a VN “should” look like. And honestly, it is so time-consuming and just feels like a waste of time, since they can’t seem to accept that everyone has different preferences. So I guess I’m writing this now mainly to show some support for someone stating the opinion I agree with.

 

[funnythings3785]

reminds me of sadism, again, it still has nothing to do with NTR

It is a physical revenge on par with the emotional attacks made by the FMC/Antagonist. The Antagonist praises his penis and the FMC worships it, both are obsessed with it to the point of seeking humiliation of the MC.

 

[funnythings3785]

To be honest, when you say “Everyone enjoys the stories for different reasons,” it just comes across as an attempt to sound rational and objective. But everything else you’ve written shows that you don’t really believe people’s preferences should be respected. And about your definition of “demanding”—if you’re using negative and subjective language in a discussion, that means you’re treating something as wrong. And don’t tell me you don’t think “wrong” should be corrected. So stop pretending you’re being objective—you clearly have strong subjective opinions and are demanding that an NTR story should look exactly the way you believe a VN or NTR should be.

Also, let’s not forget—NTR comes from Japanese works. I’ve actually designed quite a few scenes and plots inspired by Japanese porn or VNs, including the one you called “silly” (and yeah, everyone enjoys stories for different reasons—but you clearly see some of those reasons as silly). Yet you claim some of those elements “aren’t NTR.” Honestly, I find that pretty funny. What’s even funnier is how so many Japanese VNs get high ratings on DLsite but low scores on this site. So apparently, Japanese-style NTR doesn’t always match the taste of players from other countries—and that’s totally fine because I truly believe that everyone can have their preferences. But don’t act like only the version you prefer is the authentic NTR and what you prefer is superior than other people.

I haven’t taken part in the discussion here for a while, because I noticed so many people like to argue about what NTR “should” look like, what story "should" look like, or what a VN “should” look like. And honestly, it is so time-consuming and just feels like a waste of time, since they can’t seem to accept that everyone has different preferences. So I guess I’m writing this now mainly to show some support for someone stating the opinion I agree with.

People enjoy NTR from different perspectives, though lets be honest, most who praise NTR from sites like these do so from the very reasoning as the other poster was mentioning. That is, they place their connection not to the MC (the main view of the story), but from the perspective of the cheating characters. The identify with the cheater and so do not experience the emotional progression of NTR as it is written with the MC.

Your story here is clearly NTR in a package and form, but it operates from that same perspective the poster was talking about, rooting for the FMC/Antagonist. The MC is a vehicle for their progression which if one does identify with them, the story would take on an enjoyable experience of the one doing the cucking and then taking pleasure in the turmoil of the MC. This is the perspective a lot of these NTR games on this site approach the content from (ie "cheating is sexy!")

The MC is the is fetish tool for these stories, again... the MC perspective a vehicle to enjoy the cucking from a different perspective. From the very first scene with Blake she cheats right in front of the MC, cucking him. The MC is pushed into ignoring it and the FMC doesn't deal with the issue like someone ashamed in their actions, but immediately jumps right to being fucked by him the very next day. The entire story is centered around a cucking perspective wrapped up in an NTR shell, again something that many of the NTR games do here. They are fetish games hiding behind NTR perspective.

The FMC has no love for the MC at all. She displays no connection to him, just a bit of faux guilt as she continues to cheat/humiliate the MC and the worry that if she chooses "big dick", she will lose out on a stable relationship. That isn't the reasoning of someone in love, but one weighting their options.

Like I said, lots of NTR games run around this, Western mainly, Japanese will have a wide range of story approaches, but ones here mainly are about the concept of the kink of enjoying the cucking of the MC which is why the MC isn't written in a normal competent fashion, but as a means to promote the kink.

Again... nothing wrong with people "liking" that, but I don't have to like it, nor do I have to praise it... If someone comes in and praises how they love the cucking of the MC, how he is humiliated and seeing that demoralization through the MC's eyes packaged in NTR, more power to them... I will disagree, maybe even discuss some points as to why, but it won't bother me in the slightest, even if they proclaim their view superior. Why? Because I know mine is the superior view, because it is my view and it concerns my expectations, not theirs.

Like I said, people like what they like, and no I am not going to praise that, I dislike it, but... I can respect that they like it, though I won't shy away from my opinion on it. I don't like pie, I can hate it, express my disgust for it and still understand people may enjoy it. In that, sure... my opinion IS superior, why wouldn't it be? It is my own and it is my subjective evaluation as to what is best, I am not going to lie that pie is better to appeal to the feelings of others, they shouldn't feel bad about my dislike of pie, they should also feel like their subjective opinion is superior, more power to them... I can disagree, the world keeps spinning.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

 

[funnythings3785]

I won't lie that I like the game from the link above...it is neither NTR(cheating) nor cockold, it's mentally unhealthy and narratively miserable.

Welcome to NTR through the view of the MC.

That is "traditional" NTR play, the emotional turmoil and rollercoaster which rips at an individual in that situation. If you see it through the MCs eyes, the story is no longer sexy, no longer a kink for sexual pleasure, but a story of emotion, betrayal and rage at it.

It is why people who love NTR for the same reason you do, also find the game as you describe it, because the manner in which it is told doesn't allow the player to hide from the MC's turmoil, it is front and center for all to see and even the FMC forces the player to see this demoralization. It is no longer "sexy" is it? This what the player feels playing an NTR game from the perspective of the MC and so these types that are fast progression, loose reasoning, MC is a kicking stone, etc... stories come off to people who play NTR from the MCs perspective as just cheap thrills to cuck the MC, not a means to build a traditional NTR progression.

Again, not something you care for, understandable, this view is hard on people, which is why some like endings that provide additional directions. Not simply resolution between the MC/FMC (though some enjoy that), but something that treats the MC more than being a "cuck" and make no mistake, the bulk of these games end with the MC being at the least, an emotional cuck who is humiliated by the FMC/Antagonist.

It is a free fall story of demoralization for the MC, an abrupt ending with no resolution, no means to an end, no point, no purpose... just "you suck loser". Which is horrible for all but the most self harming NTR fans (some like completely demoralization, but I would wager they are a very small minority). The bulk of the fans are playing from a view similar to yours, so naturally the view is "we win!" and the story along the lines of "riding off into the sunset", "cheating is sexy!".

It is almost like it would be nice for a tag to clearly identify that type of NTR intention... For me, if I know the story is going to end in an absolutely spiral with no resolution (it doesn't have to be happy, it just has to have some form of correction to balance out the fall), I won't bother with it, but like I said... you never know what the game will be until it is finished.

 

[funnythings3785]

I don't? Maybe...I just happened to be able to read some Japanese --- the semantic origin of "NTR"

This is from a Japanese dictionary. You can use Google to translate it.

寝取られ(Forced Cheating ?*--- netorare japanese pronunciation )*
142
ねとられ

自分の配偶者や恋人、または友達以上恋人未満の相手が第三者と性的関係を持つことを示した言葉。対義語は「寝取り」。


寝取り(initial Cheating --- netori Japanese pronunciation ) usually refers to a woman cheating on a man willingly; in Japanese, it's the antonym of netorare*
50
ねとり

元は他者の配偶者や恋人と性的関係を持つことを示した言葉。対義語は「寝取られ」。

寝取らせ (Cockold --- Netorase Japanese pronunciation)
パートナーに第三者と故意に性行為に及んでもらいそれを眺める嗜好。

* Edited by me

Netorare, netori, and netorase have very similar pronunciation in Japanese. So, we: YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! WE KNOW THE MEANING of NeToRare (NeToRi or NeToRase). I probably won't say I know precisely what NTR means, because it is a phrase that contains different meanings of three Japanese terms (I did say it's confusing, didn't I?).

And, no references, evidence, or research show us that those three types of NTR are highly related to "guilty", semantically or culturally. The only necessary element for NTR is "cheating" or "cuckolding". So, please stop assuming.

Edited: It seems someone had already done the homework for us.
https://f95zone.to/threads/in-depth...-netorase.83477/#lg=attachment1209768&slide=0

AI does a better job explaining it here:

The literal translation of "netorare" (寝取られ) comes from the Japanese verb netoru (寝取る), meaning "to sleep with someone who is already sleeping with another person," which is a euphemism for cheating. The term is composed of the kanji 寝 (ne), meaning "to sleep" or "to have sex," and 取 (tori), meaning "to take" or "to steal". Therefore, netorare literally translates to "to have one's partner stolen" or "to be taken away by sleeping with," reflecting the passive form of the verb, where the person is the victim of the act. This passive construction emphasizes the perspective of the one whose partner is being taken, rather than the one doing the taking.

From the actual use of it, it is essentially a means of dealing with a persons love being stolen. From a gaming perspective, it is a process of the MC going through all the signs, hints, progressions, etc... of uncovering this affair. The traditional NTR is the slow burn, where the story very slowly evolves and the betrayal is a long process of slow corruption that the the MC will notice over that time from small behavior changes, to odd circumstances and inconsistencies with the FMC, or evidence that hints at activity that is questionable, etc... A traditional NTR can actually be told without graphic sex scenes (or any for that matter) because the "kink" isn't the point, it is the story.

The entire point is that progression of finding out, watching slowly as the person you love betrays you, but not simply the action of it, but the entire mental process of loss in terms of dealing with it. This is basic Netorare.

Netori on the other hand is when the protaganist takes away the love of another, which appears to be what a lot of people who enjoy these NTRs are doing, they are viewing themselves (or identifying with) the FMC/Antagonist, so they see themselves not as being "cheated on", but doing the cheating.

From my perspective, that seems like trying to drive from the back seat. It doesn't make sense that one has to forcefully dismiss the MC as their "view" and go out of their way to identify outside of that. This game for instance, is the MC, it is their view, you as the player are the MC, or at least are experiencing the game from his perspective. You are not cheating, you are being cheated on, you are being humiliated, you are being cucked, the loser, the idiot, the one the FMC/Antagonist are disregarding. That is the actual view of this particular game as its default.

There are games out there that tell the story from the netori view, I think one recently called "Logan Netori Story" and it is all about the perspective of the one doing the stealing, but... when you play a game from that perspective, you don't usually get to see the "internal" suffering of the Victim (ie cucked) as you do in a traditional NTR game playing as the betrayed MC which leads me to suspect the main reason people love NTRs to be written like this one is because the appeal is not simply the cheating, but seeing the emotional turmoil with the MC (feeding off the jealousy and emotional disparity of the victim while cheating on them). That, the kink I see in these games is the desire to see someone emotionally suffer from the perspective of the cheater which certainly creates a conflict with someone looking for a more traditional NTR progression ride.

 

[slavegal]

Welcome to NTR through the view of the MC.

That is "traditional" NTR play, the emotional turmoil and rollercoaster which rips at an individual in that situation. If you see it through the MCs eyes, the story is no longer sexy, no longer a kink for sexual pleasure, but a story of emotion, betrayal and rage at it.

It is why people who love NTR for the same reason you do, also find the game as you describe it, because the manner in which it is told doesn't allow the player to hide from the MC's turmoil, it is front and center for all to see and even the FMC forces the player to see this demoralization. It is no longer "sexy" is it? This what the player feels playing an NTR game from the perspective of the MC and so these types that are fast progression, loose reasoning, MC is a kicking stone, etc... stories come off to people who play NTR from the MCs perspective as just cheap thrills to cuck the MC, not a means to build a traditional NTR progression.

Again, not something you care for, understandable, this view is hard on people, which is why some like endings that provide additional directions. Not simply resolution between the MC/FMC (though some enjoy that), but something that treats the MC more than being a "cuck" and make no mistake, the bulk of these games end with the MC being at the least, an emotional cuck who is humiliated by the FMC/Antagonist.

It is a free fall story of demoralization for the MC, an abrupt ending with no resolution, no means to an end, no point, no purpose... just "you suck loser". Which is horrible for all but the most self harming NTR fans (some like completely demoralization, but I would wager they are a very small minority). The bulk of the fans are playing from a view similar to yours, so naturally the view is "we win!" and the story along the lines of "riding off into the sunset", "cheating is sexy!".

It is almost like it would be nice for a tag to clearly identify that type of NTR intention... For me, if I know the story is going to end in an absolutely spiral with no resolution (it doesn't have to be happy, it just has to have some form of correction to balance out the fall), I won't bother with it, but like I said... you never know what the game will be until it is finished.

No, don't get me wrong, the FMC's cheating scene is still very sexy. I feel the story is "miserable" because of the inhuman illogicality. For example, IF my boyfriend caught me cheating, I would only expect two results: He would let me cuckold him, or break up with me, right? It's called common sense. But in that game, the MMC neither accept FMC's cheating nor leaves her. He almost took his life because of his girlfriend's cheating, but after that, he stayed in the relationship with FMC until the next time, he found another footage and got furious with FMC, AGAIN! It seems the MMC is asking to be tortured and abused, so it's illogical.

According to either definition, NTR is about one party of the spouse cheating on the other party; we are on the same page about this. But, there must be a reason, or let's say a catalyst to start the cheating, right? A big cock could be one of the catalysts; the "big cock" is a common fantasy for girls and men who are into cuckold, and porn games are made to satisfy people's fantasies! That's why so many devs choose to do so! Because it's natural, it's instinctive!

On the other hand, what is the catalyst for the FMC's cheating in the game you gave me? SHE HAVE a PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE, SHE USES DRUGS! What a HORRIBLE reason for a girl to cheat, I just kept thinking she needs medical attention while I was playing that game, she is not cheating, she is suffering from her illness. And those lousy formulas fundamentally changed the game's nature! Having sex with females who are unwell and unable to take responsibility for their behaviour is not CHEATING or NTR, that's statutory RAPE! So unreasonable, unbelievable, unthinkable, twisted, morbid, and illogical. That's why I felt miserable.

At last, no matter which definition we adopt for NTR, it still has nothing to do with revenge and violence. As I said, a girl cheats when her boy doesn't know; once she gets caught, that would be cuckold ---- NTS: Netorase. THE PARADOX lies in: if the boy doesn't know, how does any dev depict his mental pain, heartbreaking and psychological ordeal? If he finds out about the cheating, it would become NTS or GAME OVER, which is not in our purview.

Edited: If you were familiar with Japanese NTR comics that originated the concept of NTR, you would know 99% of them prioritise the female's psychological, not men's. Why? Because men are predictable, they would only take it happily or leave it resentfully in this case. It's almost funny to say a non-cuckold man could become cuckold because his girl keeps cheating on him, after he takes sufficient negative energy...

 

[funnythings3785]

No, don't get me wrong, the FMC's cheating scene is still very sexy. I feel the story is "miserable" because of the inhuman illogicality. For example, IF my boyfriend caught me cheating, I would only expect two results: He would let me cuckold him, or break up with me, right? It's called common sense. But in that game, the MMC neither accept FMC's cheating nor leaves her. He almost took his life because of his girlfriend's cheating, but after that, he stayed in the relationship with FMC until the next time, he found another footage and got furious with FMC, AGAIN! It seems the MMC is asking to be tortured and abused, so it's illogical.

The story is more nuanced than that though. It isn't a simple cheat story, the MC is broken just as she is and became mentally attached and damaged through her abuse on him. You do realize she abuses him do you not? That even as a child she was abusing the MC, likely not "intentionally", but as a secondary response to his attempt to help her.

In that, he became a very damaged person as she is. He stays with her because he has built his entire world around her since he was young and he doesn't know what healthy is, how to experience it and he is attached to her as badly as she is to him. He can't leave, his mind just won't let him accept it which is why he justifies her behavior, her continued abuse and manipulation.

There is a "reasoning" to it, maybe a bit fantisful, but it is a reasoning that can be justified to a tangible realm (unlike most NTRs which honestly, the MC is just beyond moronic).

According to either definition, NTR is about one party of the spouse cheating on the other party; we are on the same page about this. But, there must be a reason, or let's say a catalyst to start the cheating, right? A big cock could be one of the catalysts; the "big cock" is a common fantasy for girls and men who are into cuckold, and porn games are made to satisfy people's fantasies! That's why so many devs choose to do so! Because it's natural, it's instinctive!

There are numerous reasons. Big cock is the cuck theme and it proves as I said.. these "NTR" games are more about kink fetish, not NTR. NTR just provides a neat little package and process to run the fetish through. People grow distant for many reasons which can introduce a temptation for cheating, but many of those take "time" and "effort" to setup the relationship. The writer has to delve into the emotional connection between the MC/FMC, slowly build up their core "love" as a base, then show how this is slowly broke down over time which leads to the FMC being tempted.

In this game, the MC/FMC relationship doesn't exist. There is no love there, there is no real connection, the MC is just "some dude" she knows and first chance at cheating to get a quick pleasure fix, she takes it, because the MC means nothing to her. On its basic face, yes... NTR, girl stolen, but.. well... the entire point is not NTR, it really is just about the kinks be it cucking, humiliation, or BBC fetishes, etc... its

On the other hand, what is the catalyst for the FMC's cheating in the game you gave me? SHE HAVE a PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE, SHE USES DRUGS! What a HORRIBLE reason for a girl to cheat, I just kept thinking she needs medical attention while I was playing that game, she is not cheating, she is suffering from her illness. And those lousy formulas fundamentally changed the game's nature! Having sex with females who are unwell and unable to take responsibility for their behaviour is not CHEATING or NTR, that's statutory RAPE! So unreasonable, unbelievable, unthinkable, twisted, morbid, and illogical. That's why I felt miserable.

1. Yes and no... you need to read more in the story. She enjoyed it, she eventually admits it that she choose such. There are elements of rape, certainly... at times in the story where Mia has her completely wacked out on drugs and "changes the rules" i the parties. Still, she did gang bangs, massive sex acts, etc.... knowingly AND Approvingly.

Also, she cucked him... outright, planned, ignored his objections and pleas, etc... for the express purpose of appealing to her cucking fetish (ie jealousy kink with the MC).

2. MC is disgusted with her past, for numerous reasons and I really don't want to derail another authors game by discussing it. Needless to say, he has reasonable means to hate her, but at the same time, also a "need" to be with her, as she him. It is a messed up story, which is why it is compelling. Read it again, or... go to the forums and read the discussion, there is a TON you have missed in the story that clarifies things.

At the end, there are "reasons" why he stays and Lacey (as well as all the other girls who are just as evil in this) keeps making excuses and manipulating thigs (ie my poor brain doesn't work right, the drugs, poor me, oops.. etc...) which while stupid at times, all things considered works in with the MC considering his mental illness as well.

At last, no matter which definition we adopt for NTR, it still has nothing to do with revenge and violence. As I said, a girl cheats when her boy doesn't know; once she gets caught, that would be cuckold ---- NTS: Netorase. THE PARADOX lies in: if the boy doesn't know, how does any dev depict his mental pain, heartbreaking and psychological ordeal? If he finds out about the cheating, it would become NTS or GAME OVER, which is not in our purview.

It has nothing to do with pushing sex kinks either. It is about having your love stolen. NTS is sharing (approving) though which is not Netorare. The MC finding out doesn't end the story of his love being stolen. It can go in many ways after that. he can retaliate (it revenge) or he can try and win her back through some means, or for those who push the kinks yes... he can become a cuck and either share or become the humiliation dupe. Oh, there is also the alternate love interest who swoops in to save/help the MC after his loved one completely destroys his world (seen this one quite a bit).

Point is, how those stories play it all depends, the basic concept of NTR does not imply a specific path as you seem to suggest. In fact, there are numerous Japanese NTR games that have love stories of redemption, revenge, devastation and loss, etc... Some are really good too because they actually complete a true NTR story cycle of ups and downs and aren't simply a means for people to fap to. They also tend to have a TON more story, and fewer sex scenes.

Edited: If you were familiar with Japanese NTR comics that originated the concept of NTR, you would know 99% of them prioritise the female's psychological, not men's. Why? Because men are predictable, they would only take it happily or leave it resentfully in this case. It's almost funny to say a non-cuckold man could become cuckold because his girl keeps cheating on him, after he takes sufficient negative energy...

In the case of L&J there is a specific reasoning here, so the standard "man would just leave" is dismissing the entire story and the specific conditions of his character.

In most NTRs, once the man finds out, he takes action. What that is? Depends. In the NTR cycle, this is near mid/end of the story though and after that, his actions then focus on confrontation and remedy. This is why revenge is a nice element in the play and if you have read various cheating stories online, you know the various levels a man will go to if cheated on ranging from mild to extreme, financial to physical, etc... point is, there is a process and this can be a detailed progression of the story.

This also allows the MC to experience the reaction of the FMC finding out that the MC knows and how she will react. Will she turn villain and join the antagonist in further cucking/humiliation? Will this spur the MC into a violent revenge plot? Will she grovel, beg forgiveness, etc.. and the MC gets to see all the details of emotional conflict stemming from that side to which maybe he cucks her? Maybe he lulls her into safety of the relationship and then dumps here with nothing? Maybe she goes back to the antagonist , he gets tired of her and then kicks her to the curb... maybe he gets abusive and there is an eloquent poetry of karma, point is... girl stolen... story... what happens?

All of this can go on a bit, under specific story progressions to a resolution and understand, that resolution... can be a sad ending, but most of the games here "end" on the concept of being found and then it is just cuck/humiliation, roll to credits.

Yes, NTR... and yes some will have this concept in them, but as I said, there is a wide range of stories out there while the ones in the west tend to be all about cucking/humiliation fetishes for the players who for some reason want to play the MC, but identify with the cheater as opposed to playing a game where the MC is the cheater.

At the end though, as I pointed out, this game is cuck from the go. If we take the standard as you mentioned, Alan would have dumped the whore that night Blake was finger banging her in front of him and she was "enjoying" it. So the story appears to be less about NTR and more about cuck/humiliation.

 

[slavegal]

The story is more nuanced than that though. It isn't a simple cheat story, the MC is broken just as she is and became mentally attached and damaged through her abuse on him. You do realize she abuses him do you not? That even as a child she was abusing the MC, likely not "intentionally", but as a secondary response to his attempt to help her.

In that, he became a very damaged person as she is. He stays with her because he has built his entire world around her since he was young and he doesn't know what healthy is, how to experience it and he is attached to her as badly as she is to him. He can't leave, his mind just won't let him accept it which is why he justifies her behavior, her continued abuse and manipulation.

There is a "reasoning" to it, maybe a bit fantisful, but it is a reasoning that can be justified to a tangible realm (unlike most NTRs which honestly, the MC is just beyond moronic).



There are numerous reasons. Big cock is the cuck theme and it proves as I said.. these "NTR" games are more about kink fetish, not NTR. NTR just provides a neat little package and process to run the fetish through. People grow distant for many reasons which can introduce a temptation for cheating, but many of those take "time" and "effort" to setup the relationship. The writer has to delve into the emotional connection between the MC/FMC, slowly build up their core "love" as a base, then show how this is slowly broke down over time which leads to the FMC being tempted.

In this game, the MC/FMC relationship doesn't exist. There is no love there, there is no real connection, the MC is just "some dude" she knows and first chance at cheating to get a quick pleasure fix, she takes it, because the MC means nothing to her. On its basic face, yes... NTR, girl stolen, but.. well... the entire point is not NTR, it really is just about the kinks be it cucking, humiliation, or BBC fetishes, etc... its




1. Yes and no... you need to read more in the story. She enjoyed it, she eventually admits it that she choose such. There are elements of rape, certainly... at times in the story where Mia has her completely wacked out on drugs and "changes the rules" i the parties. Still, she did gang bangs, massive sex acts, etc.... knowingly AND Approvingly.

Also, she cucked him... outright, planned, ignored his objections and pleas, etc... for the express purpose of appealing to her cucking fetish (ie jealousy kink with the MC).

2. MC is disgusted with her past, for numerous reasons and I really don't want to derail another authors game by discussing it. Needless to say, he has reasonable means to hate her, but at the same time, also a "need" to be with her, as she him. It is a messed up story, which is why it is compelling. Read it again, or... go to the forums and read the discussion, there is a TON you have missed in the story that clarifies things.

At the end, there are "reasons" why he stays and Lacey (as well as all the other girls who are just as evil in this) keeps making excuses and manipulating thigs (ie my poor brain doesn't work right, the drugs, poor me, oops.. etc...) which while stupid at times, all things considered works in with the MC considering his mental illness as well.




It has nothing to do with pushing sex kinks either. It is about having your love stolen. NTS is sharing (approving) though which is not Netorare. The MC finding out doesn't end the story of his love being stolen. It can go in many ways after that. he can retaliate (it revenge) or he can try and win her back through some means, or for those who push the kinks yes... he can become a cuck and either share or become the humiliation dupe. Oh, there is also the alternate love interest who swoops in to save/help the MC after his loved one completely destroys his world (seen this one quite a bit).

Point is, how those stories play it all depends, the basic concept of NTR does not imply a specific path as you seem to suggest. In fact, there are numerous Japanese NTR games that have love stories of redemption, revenge, devastation and loss, etc... Some are really good too because they actually complete a true NTR story cycle of ups and downs and aren't simply a means for people to fap to. They also tend to have a TON more story, and fewer sex scenes.




In the case of L&J there is a specific reasoning here, so the standard "man would just leave" is dismissing the entire story and the specific conditions of his character.

In most NTRs, once the man finds out, he takes action. What that is? Depends. In the NTR cycle, this is near mid/end of the story though and after that, his actions then focus on confrontation and remedy. This is why revenge is a nice element in the play and if you have read various cheating stories online, you know the various levels a man will go to if cheated on ranging from mild to extreme, financial to physical, etc... point is, there is a process and this can be a detailed progression of the story.

This also allows the MC to experience the reaction of the FMC finding out that the MC knows and how she will react. Will she turn villain and join the antagonist in further cucking/humiliation? Will this spur the MC into a violent revenge plot? Will she grovel, beg forgiveness, etc.. and the MC gets to see all the details of emotional conflict stemming from that side to which maybe he cucks her? Maybe he lulls her into safety of the relationship and then dumps here with nothing? Maybe she goes back to the antagonist , he gets tired of her and then kicks her to the curb... maybe he gets abusive and there is an eloquent poetry of karma, point is... girl stolen... story... what happens?

All of this can go on a bit, under specific story progressions to a resolution and understand, that resolution... can be a sad ending, but most of the games here "end" on the concept of being found and then it is just cuck/humiliation, roll to credits.

Yes, NTR... and yes some will have this concept in them, but as I said, there is a wide range of stories out there while the ones in the west tend to be all about cucking/humiliation fetishes for the players who for some reason want to play the MC, but identify with the cheater as opposed to playing a game where the MC is the cheater.

At the end though, as I pointed out, this game is cuck from the go. If we take the standard as you mentioned, Alan would have dumped the whore that night Blake was finger banging her in front of him and she was "enjoying" it. So the story appears to be less about NTR and more about cuck/humiliation.

Thank you for your fervent writing, but I don't really have time for this anymore. Sorry, I didn't read.

If you have been talking about NTS/cuckold, I couldn't care less, I'm neither a man nor a woman who is into cuckold. And if it's about a cuckold, who would share his wife happily to have a pleasure, then why "revenge"?

If you have been talking about female-focused NTR/cheating, where the victim has no idea about the "cheating", where does "revenge upon villain" come from?

I won't reply to such a confusing discussion anymore.

 

[Saerwen]

Male POV - NTR; Female POV - cheating. It's simple and yet people overcomplicate.

 

[funnythings3785]

Thank you for your fervent writing, but I don't really have time for this anymore. Sorry, I didn't read.

If you have been talking about NTS/cuckold, I couldn't care less, I'm neither a man nor a woman who is into cuckold. And if it's about a cuckold, who would share his wife happily to have a pleasure, then why "revenge"?

If you have been talking about female-focused NTR/cheating, where the victim has no idea about the "cheating", where does "revenge upon villain" come from?

I won't reply to such a confusing discussion anymore.

LOL

"I am not going to read anything you said, but I am going to assume what you said and frame my response accordingly"

Very logical, quite brilliant! Bravo!

 

[funnythings3785]

Male POV - NTR; Female POV - cheating. It's simple and yet people overcomplicate.

The question is... who is the story written to favor? If the Female POV, Male POV = cuck/humiliation writing, Fetish focus.

If Male POV, traditional relationship, conflict, discovery, confrontation, resolution.

One is for fapping, the other is for story telling.

 

[Akeraux]

I don't? Maybe...I just happened to be able to read some Japanese --- the semantic origin of "NTR"

This is from a Japanese dictionary. You can use Google to translate it.

寝取られ(Forced Cheating ?*--- netorare japanese pronunciation )*
142
ねとられ

自分の配偶者や恋人、または友達以上恋人未満の相手が第三者と性的関係を持つことを示した言葉。対義語は「寝取り」。


寝取り(initial Cheating --- netori Japanese pronunciation ) usually refers to a woman cheating on a man willingly; in Japanese, it's the antonym of netorare*
50
ねとり

元は他者の配偶者や恋人と性的関係を持つことを示した言葉。対義語は「寝取られ」。

寝取らせ (Cockold --- Netorase Japanese pronunciation)
パートナーに第三者と故意に性行為に及んでもらいそれを眺める嗜好。

* Edited by me

Netorare, netori, and netorase have very similar pronunciation in Japanese. So, we: YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! WE KNOW THE MEANING of NeToRare (NeToRi or NeToRase). I probably won't say I know precisely what NTR means, because it is a phrase that contains different meanings of three Japanese terms (I did say it's confusing, didn't I?).

And, no references, evidence, or research show us that those three types of NTR are highly related to "guilty", semantically or culturally. The only necessary element for NTR is "cheating" or "cuckolding". So, please stop assuming.

Edited: It seems someone had already done the homework for us.
https://f95zone.to/threads/in-depth...-netorase.83477/#lg=attachment1209768&slide=0

You can read japanese, thats awesome, and you made the letters bigger and easier to read, appreciated.

Now, Last time I checked this AVN was named "NTR'ed by my Friend" not "Netorase'ed by..." or "Netori'ed by..." so even when the other definitions are welcome for clarity reasons, they are irrelevant with the matter in question, I never mentioned or questioned them for starters.

You can quote definitions, that's clear, but you understand them? lets see:

There is no need to reinvent the wheel: When there's an adulterer, someone cheated on and a homewrecker, there's "feelings" involved, like Guilt ("How this can feel so wrong if it feels so good?" or "What was my mistake? why she cheated on me?") and Anger ("That damned homewrecker!, I want to kick his ass for betraying my trust!" or "Filthy adulterer! I gave her everything and this is how she repays me?")

On this article of some site that sounds interesting called Oxford Academic lies an extract of

You must be registered to see the links

That explains, in general terms, why people cheat and how people cheated on is affected by adultery.

I may be wrong, but there's no need for an academic essay confirming people feel this way when they are cheated on, even in Japan, and neither quoting irrelevant definitions with the matter discussed hoping to make someone else look ignorant or writing in larger letters will change this fact.
I'm not here to win discussions with strangers, those kind of games do not interest me, but if you hit me with your glove i'll answer the same way.

Finally, the only thing I assumed is that "non-novelistic" stuff is wrong in a novel (I literally quote my own post) and that there's always some flaws in the writing here and there, and I stand by this assumption, so please dont assume things that I didnt assumed?

To be honest, writing isn't that difficult, we all learned how to do it, but getting other people to connect with us through our writing... That's very different I mean, you are writing a "novel" because you have a story to tell and you want to be successful with your projects, right?

"Yeah, I've never wrote anything, but writing a novel about the complex nature of human feelings and relationships can't be that hard, right?...Right?"
(Disclaimer: Not implying this is the Dev, I mean, he did a decent job with Blake and that's why I bring him back again and again for example, but there's a big room for improvement plot-wise, and all my criticisms in this regard have been with the aim of constructivism, I dont expect likes back or "support" from the dev in this regard. I may not know how to read japanese, but I know a thing or two about writing, novels and movie scripts that can be useful for someone out there)

BTW, About Blake...He works because he's simple: Nothing bothers him, the only thing he wants, the only goal in his life is to "stick it in" he doesn't cares who or when, but how does Alan still keeps him around is beyond me, because someone like him, is clear he always wants a slice of pie, even if it doesnt belongs to him.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll continue fantasizing about new and creative ways to torture Blake, like boiling his nuts, like in that "boiled frog" myth.

 

[Akeraux]

You know what sounds "sexy"?

Kidnapping Blake (Dexter style), keeping him in the dark as to who... giving him a locale, cutting off his bean and frank, doing a quick patch job and dropping him off at a ER in the middle of the night rush order style.

Then.... wait...

Watch how the FMC now wants to go back to the MC (cuz "big dick no longer there") and just when she thinks things are "back to normal", drop the video/info/etc... of her cheating, tell her she is a disgusting whore that deserves only the life of a prostitute, dump her ass, kick her ass out the door... then move off some where else.

Then after a long while, just to torment Blake, send his penis/balls back to him (Taxidermy).

Super sexy, I get all tingly thinking about it. lol

That's splendid!

 

[funnythings3785]

I started thinking about the FMC in this game, and well... in most of these 'types' of NTR games and I thought, they are the real villain here. Sure... Blake is the bad guy, I mean... he is the one who instigates and pushes the cheating... but... you know the old saying... "It takes two to tango" and without the FMC partaking in the interactions, the cheating never happens outside of some initial groping that could force a consequence/action that would put an immediate stop to it (ie sexual assault charges, telling the MC and he takes some action, etc...)

The point is, the FMC isn't a victim here because the FMC doesn't act like one. At least in the blackmail NTR games there is some "reasonable" means to explain the FMC doing the cheating (though most are ridiculous in their reasoning), but take this game for instance, there is ZERO reason for her cheating other than she wants to and she doesn't give a fuck about the MC.

She not only wants to, but she wants him to suffer as well. The MC doesn't have to "know" about the cheating to still be a victim of cucking. In fact, every scene where the FMC/Antagonist are having sex in some fashion in front of the MC through some form of deception or manipulation (ie on the phone/video call, behind an object, etc...), they are cucking the MC.

The MC doesn't know, but the FMC/antagonist knows, which is part of the kink, the humiliation without knowing, kind of how some school kids will all point and laugh at a student who has a sign taped to their back unknowingly, or something done to them without them being aware while everyone else takes enjoyment.

The FMC takes extreme pleasure in this humiliation of the MC. This is part of the allure to them, not simply the physical pleasure, but the excitement as well as the subjugation of the one they are cheating on, humiliating them, degrading them, etc... and it is why FMC continues and progresses on these stories because ultimately it becomes about their ultimate core nature of themselves and how they have zero feelings for the person they claimed to love.

At any moment the FMC could stop everything. They could fess up and leave the MC, they could simply break it off without him knowing (saving him the heartbreak if they had any real concern), but they don't... they progress the cheating and humiliations and this continues... until the FMCs true feelings for the MC manifest, the complete and utter disgust of the MC... that is the whole "You are weak, you are pathetic, you are... <insert derogatory cuck/humiliation insult>"

The FMC is truly the evil character here, down to the core... as I said, Blake is evil, but crap... you know what he is all about and can't be surprised, but the FMC... WOW, super evil villain, without empathy, without any respect for the person they "claimed" they loved... yeah... revenge on the FMC I would say would be much more interesting if this whole "exploration" of this could be had between the MC/FMC, maybe through some torture session, or maybe at the end of a long con setup that ruins the FMCs life and you get a monologue from the MC and a realization, response, pleading, etc... from the FMC.

That would round out things nicely, though that I understand would kill the mood for some, though... a writer could have a flag when starting a new game for "revenge/alternative" endings and it wouldn't conflict with the fetish seekers.

hmm... all I know is that many of these FMCs in these games seriously need an ass kicking.

 

[Hazystomp]

WTF are these walls of text? This is the most slop in the name of discussion I have seen from the many threads i have been to, only Vulgar Reverie is scratching the competition.
I ain't reading all that and probably nobody is if they value their time.
Anyway, I am happy for you or sorry it happened .
I will be on my way to download the walkthrough.

 

[funnythings3785]

WTF are these walls of text? This is the most slop in the name of discussion I have seen from the many threads i have been to, only Vulgar Reverie is scratching the competition.
I ain't reading all that and probably nobody is if they value their time.
Anyway, I am happy for you or sorry it happened .
I will be on my way to download the walkthrough.

Reading is hurd, make pictures... so can not lose attention. thanks.

 

[Glenn009]

when is v13 release?