Earliestbird

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
274
735
Definitely seems like late game needs some more resource sinks for you to spend all the stuff the girls are collecting. Maybe things like heals or short term buffs for bosses, maybe something like a luck boost for finding girls to breed with, etc. I found a few girls to breed early on and get the collection bonus from but after that zero opportunities no matter how long I played. Not sure if that's intended or I'm missing something, or just really low chance.
It's just a matter of the game being early in development. Currently there are 2 breeding events after the collection is unlocked - 1 in New Rozan, and another in the slime cave. I eventually want enough events (including repeatable ones) that the entire collection can be unlocked, but it will take time.
 

BGRW2020

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2020
1,896
1,831
Great game, like the characters and the MC, however I'm getting errors when I passed the Rozan city to the old city areas, would this be because I'm using the old saves still? from previous versions
also will there be additional characters in the camp like Raven and D'alena
Would also be nice to have easier time to increase HP
 

Earliestbird

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
274
735
Great game, like the characters and the MC, however I'm getting errors when I passed the Rozan city to the old city areas, would this be because I'm using the old saves still? from previous versions
also will there be additional characters in the camp like Raven and D'alena
Would also be nice to have easier time to increase HP
Yeah saves are not compatible between versions, that's why you're getting errors (also you should delete older game versions on your pc).

There are 3 recruitable characters / main love interests. You can recruit all of them in the newest version, though only Raven has events so far.

Game balance will be something that changes a lot over the course of development. Right now healing is somewhat limited because otherwise essence drain would be a trivial mechanic. You can get healing from the healing tent building, a few Collection cards like Dawncaller, food rations that you gain by working in New Rozan, or by going to the healer.
But all of this is subject to change based on overall player feedback.
 
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Incarnax

New Member
May 3, 2018
9
3
Bug Report: for the past few versions, Arcane Warp attack has reduced the damage of the Head node for all nodes targeted.

Suggestion: As greater foes are introduced, it becomes increasingly unlikely for Arcane spec to survive combat. The cap on Instability is good for early balance, but it doesn't really matter later on. Recommend changing Warp to increase the amount it hinders (partially blocks) the attack of the target node--something like this:
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With this change in my personal copy of the game, Arcane regains much of its previous control of combat. However, I have noticed that this makes a powerful Arcane Unmake finisher (~50% enemy health) too easy to produce. I am testing a few things to tone down Unmake damage and will report back with a suggestion.
 

UnDeaD_CyBorG

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2018
1,193
676
It looked to me like warp would reduce the damage of the head node (sometimes to 0, sometimes no lower than 1) the round you cast it, but work on the part you targeted in following rounds. Though yes, an arcane spec gets a bit weaker through progression - the extra shield is very helpful, but does not compensate for the lack of block on stronger enemies until sufficient instability has been built up.
Regarding that, is there even a pure 'something' spec?
I went mostly arcane, getting one phys and char to have some, and though events and items found, my character ended up with something like 8/7/3, that is, with me picking arcane in all but one of the cases I had a choice, I still ended up with a rather even spread.

Regarding healing/essence:
I suppose I took a conscious effort to manage my essence, but I've never even been particularly low.
Healing can be an issue, what with it being so limited, so maybe having an option to pay essence for health more often, maybe even through a base interaction, would allow keeping a semblance of resource economy without just stalling the player.
 

Earliestbird

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
274
735
Bug Report: for the past few versions, Arcane Warp attack has reduced the damage of the Head node for all nodes targeted.

Suggestion: As greater foes are introduced, it becomes increasingly unlikely for Arcane spec to survive combat. The cap on Instability is good for early balance, but it doesn't really matter later on. Recommend changing Warp to increase the amount it hinders (partially blocks) the attack of the target node--something like this:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
With this change in my personal copy of the game, Arcane regains much of its previous control of combat. However, I have noticed that this makes a powerful Arcane Unmake finisher (~50% enemy health) too easy to produce. I am testing a few things to tone down Unmake damage and will report back with a suggestion.
Awesome feedback, thank you! Combat has a lot of room to grow - I want to have a more involved system and a skill tree where you can unlock abilities. I don't know when I'll get to it, but I'll keep your suggestion in mind.
 

Vertius

Active Member
Dec 22, 2019
622
900
I have to be doing something wrong. I can't gather enough resources fast enough to build anything, I just die from having no essence. Is there something I'm missing?
 

khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,620
3,660
I have to be doing something wrong. I can't gather enough resources fast enough to build anything, I just die from having no essence. Is there something I'm missing?
There are 2 buildings that give stat increases to the girls you have gathering resources. The first one specifically advises building it early. That's the first thing you want to build after the initial building. The one below that increases that further. Once you've got both of them your girls will gain stats fast enough that you'll have everything build fairly quickly. Even with only 1 of them you'll make decent progress.

What I do is build that first stat increasing building for the girls, then the healing building for me, then the 2nd stat increaser for the girls. Then the order doesn't really matter. Also pay attention to which stats the girls have since each resource gets bonuses depending on the stats. Raven for instance is better at gathering hemp and essence than the 2nd girl you find. The 2nd girl is better at gathering wood/sap/metal/stone.
 

pfft0123

Newbie
Dec 1, 2022
21
21
have you considered using custom stable diffusion models for characters? they can produce higher quality images, like these.
Where would one go to find such models?
I've been wondering if I could use AI to generate art for a potential game as well.
Thanks in advance
 

Eonor

Active Member
Sep 9, 2017
625
1,420
Had a go at porting v0.1.11 to Android.

Got some basic gestures loaded in: swipe up for save menu, swipe down to hide UI, swipe left to rollback and swipe right to skip.

Please let me know if you encounter any issues with the port and I'll see what I can do to get them sorted.

Links: -
 
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Bloogonis

New Member
Jun 19, 2017
13
16
I love the way this game uses the wonky way AI generates things as part of the world building. I cant wait for more!

I hope we can meet our daughters some time in the future their art is to good to be left as simple trading cards. It could be funny as this self professed drifter sets down his roots deeper and deeper into this world showing up out of nowhere to be a doting father and what reaction the locals would have to such a development.
 
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UnDeaD_CyBorG

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2018
1,193
676
I seriously wonder how some people can have such big problems with essence.
I know I probably had way above average occurences of the essence storms, but I was rarely short. Actually, I was never life-threateningly short.
Maybe as a suggestion:
Could some random events be triggered directly by the player's situation?
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I know the world is random, but stratifying it a little might take off the edge cases? Of course, just giving some events a cooldown might also help that.
Edit: Deleted an attachment caused by some freak accident with keyboard commands.
 
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Earliestbird

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
274
735
I seriously wonder how some people can have such big problems with essence.
I know I probably had way above average occurences of the essence storms, but I was rarely short. Actually, I was never life-threateningly short.
Maybe as a suggestion:
Could some random events be triggered directly by the player's situation?
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
I know the world is random, but stratifying it a little might take off the edge cases? Of course, just giving some events a cooldown might also help that.
That actually sounds like a great idea. But perhaps only make it trigger once per game so people don't abuse it.

Also the game is only going to get more complex from here - the next patch brings Active Talents that, if people are not careful, can quickly blow their resources (but also provides a lot of interesting tools for smart players). And I have Passive Talents in development which will probably cost essence.
 

JohnF95zone

Engaged Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,016
3,495
I seriously wonder how some people can have such big problems with essence.
I know I probably had way above average occurences of the essence storms, but I was rarely short. Actually, I was never life-threateningly short.
Maybe as a suggestion:
Could some random events be triggered directly by the player's situation?
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
I know the world is random, but stratifying it a little might take off the edge cases? Of course, just giving some events a cooldown might also help that.
But I really like the idea of huge bug gives large amount of essence. It is a really popular sci-fi reference to Dune. Earliestbird can easily get some 'sandworm' images generated by Stable Diffusion. Okay, if Dune is not retro enough, think bug from Starship Trooper. :D

Don't have to create battle scene or anything, enough with "You found a large bug and extract huge amount of essence that allow you to survive a few days." (then show the bug picture). This is triggered when player has critical essence.
 

Redknight178

Newbie
Sep 5, 2021
40
41
I seriously wonder how some people can have such big problems with essence.
I know I probably had way above average occurences of the essence storms, but I was rarely short. Actually, I was never life-threateningly short.
With essense it's a very snowball thing: you are starving for it early on and can even get into the death spiral getting a lot of wounded events as I described. But when you get at least 2 girls and most important buildings (healing hut, essense nets and so on), it rapidly becomes non-issue.

But I guess there is a lot of things which are not in the game right now, so the balance can change considerably.

One thing I wanted to ask: if each update requires to start a new game, could there be some sort of newgame+ version, to avoid some early grind?
 
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hameleona

Member
Oct 27, 2018
287
579
So, I played the game. Great potential. Decent execution. AI art was less distracting then I thought it would be. Pretty good writing and world-building. Lots of... eh... idk, not exactly critiques, but more akin to "I totally know better even if I have 0 games under my belt and am actually kinda envious of your skills" if it makes any amount of sense. :D

Basically, everything bellow is meant to be as friendly discussion, not an attack or mean spirited anyway (just saying it here, since I do tend to sound much harsher then I actually am, while commenting on games - I spent... idk, 6 or 7 hours in the game - I'm at about day 100 - so I did enjoy the game overall). Earliestbird - you have done a great job so far.


But man, do I have several major gripes. They are all with the different systems the game has in place and basically none is about the story or writing (the only think I think was messed up there was that in the Intro I think I never saw Raven, yet when I met her on the road to recruit her the writing assumed I've seen her). The writing is ok, a bit long-winded at times, maybe a bit too simple at others, but it's good quality, overall. The story is so early, that I can't really comment on it.

So, systems. I basically don't like any of them :D
It's not that they are bad, but that they are weirdly or (imo) badly implemented. Let's start with some base things:

The RPG parts.
I like the stats, both the primary and the secondary ones, it's a very fresh outlook on character building. That said, the implementation is lackluster. From the choices at the start (where you are basically building your character semi-blindly) to the events involving them, Stats seemed... underwhelming. For one, you are very quickly gonna overshadow your starting stats. This is in a very interesting clash with the constant recalls of MCs earlier life and how it shapes him. Like, at day 100 I'm at 40-50 in secondary stats and I could have been much higher if I grinded them. Makes the initial increases almost meaningless. The stats need way more random and semi-random encounters that give different outcomes depending on them. I haven't delved deep enough, but I have the feeling most of the outcomes are the same, regardless of how you approach them (excluding the few resource extraction events). Now this may seem as "game needs more content" gripe, but it's more of "game needs some variety in the approach events are designed. Yes, I love the idea that all builds should be viable. But at the same time - there are few builds at all (most stat gaining is RNG based), and while it's nice to be able to play your character - it's weird you get the same results.
Maybe you need to meet random entities - vagrants, bandits, traders, damsels in distress, monsters that have multiple ways of turning out. As a simple example - maybe you arrive in a situation similar to Raven's recruitment event - a bunch of Unmade chasing a random chick. Instead of rushing to save her, maybe you can charge wildly (Wild + Magnetic > 60), try hide to ambush them while they pass close to you (Visionary + Mindful > 45) or wait for them to catch her and then stab them in the back (Stoic + Impish > 30). You succeed on your approach - you get a much easier fight, you fail - you get a hard fight. But your approach gives also a different reward and reaction from the victim - a wild charge is hard to pull off, but she is grateful and unhurt regardless of your performance (good reward - idk, a small gem and 10 Hemp), the ambush is much easier but scares the shit out of her and she is much more on guard (lesser reward - just 10 Hemp) and if you let them catch with her - she is now injured (success) or out-right dead (fail) - no reward for you barring the essence of the Unmade.


Talking about the stats, let's talk about Combat a bit.
Combat is weird. It feels very RNG based (considering how little your HP grows, enemy damage is very swingy with RNG making the same battle anything from unwinnable to piece of cake). Magic is basically a trap - yes, shield is nice, but since most enemies get one big attack and 1-2 minor ones, martial blocking is way better overall. Especially considering how friggin slow HP recovery is. IMO, magic needs way more options. More special abilities, maybe gained from specific quests, or something.
Again I'll give an example of how I would do it. I'd add a resource - Knowledge (meaning arcane knowledge). You can buy books about magic in the town, find them in random encounters and ruins, etc. You build a "Library (maybe a Study upgrade or better yet - replacement)" in your base and just like with the smelter, you can use it to "burn" artefacts about magic to gain Knowledge and unlock/improve abilities. Boost the damage reduction from magical attacks, increase the stacking maximum, let your shield reflect damage and increase the amount, unlock magical cleave, gain shield regeneration in combat, turn your physical attacks in to leeching ones (restoring HP), gain magic resistance (and add enemies that attack you with magic), gain more essence from enemies... basically a ton of passive and active abilities that would A) make magic more powerful and varied, B) make magical warriors more of a thing and C) boost the CHAR stat (since anything you do with it requires the other two, it's much less important atm).
Melee is ok, atm, but the lack of any options to actually gain passive damage reduction bugs me. I can't become more tankier. I can't get a shield. Armor makes me better at killing people, instead of survival. Eh? It works (I killed everything but the dragon or whatever the creature around the essence pool was) but it feels... boring - slap a cleave or two, then just target the highest DMG attack incoming. This is mostly resolved by making the enemies more varied. Yes, you should always attack the highest damage part, but if one part deals 3x times damage to shields, maybe it's better to block it at the start of combat. +1 PHYS is cool, but an item giving me +1 Armor is also cool. And so on.
I felt, like a lot of thought went in to not making the MC OP. This is resolved much easily by having difficulty levels in the game, then bothering about the MC in a single-player game being OP. And a lot more variety in how enemies work - more variety in stat, more attack options (maybe block 1/2 damage and deal 2x damage yourself, maybe block two parts, but deal 1/2 damage yourself, etc.)

Still, with all my criticisms, at least those parts had something going for them. The management part on the other hand was just plain boring and grindy.

The Base.
Ok, this is my biggest gripe with the game. Nothing inside the base seemed meaningful. Build that, build this... the only two buildings that I cared about were the healing tent and the pyre, maybe the study. After those I was just waiting on resources. Essence was never a problem (currently sitting at 333 at day 100). I didn't really need to do anything. Never felt pressed for time, never felt the need to devote any attention to the system. I mean, yeah, there are a few resource sinks on the map, but... again, I can just wait. Exploring the place where I am is tied to Raven, instead of being it's own thing and Raven's story being tied to it (not to mention exploring/clearing space in the base would give me something to DO while slowly waiting for my HP to recover at the early stages of the game). In many ways it feels like it's just meant to be a playground for the player to fuck around (probably literally) at much, much, much later stages of the game.
Also, Training tools should be how resource gathering works by default, adding such a building just makes it a linear progression, it might as well be a pre-requisite for all the others. Yeah, you can skip it, but you are gimping yourself by a lot.

Exploration
I don't have gripes here. Just one - it feels like being able to only go one way. Like i'm in a valley and have to explore it and there is no way to get out of it. I suppose this will change in the future, but I'd personally spread the exploration nodes more radially and not conically as they are now.

In the end... it's a decent start. Ain't what I would do, but if I want what I would do, then I should go and make my own game, right? :D
Good job, dev, keep up the good work.
Also I'm seconding the "advanced start" request above - the early game is a grind that's gonna be interesting once. Maybe just have a start point at where Raven joins us and we just pick what we gain from the choices before that (a "skip prologue" type thing).
 

Earliestbird

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
274
735
I like the stats, both the primary and the secondary ones, it's a very fresh outlook on character building. That said, the implementation is lackluster. From the choices at the start (where you are basically building your character semi-blindly) to the events involving them, Stats seemed... underwhelming. For one, you are very quickly gonna overshadow your starting stats. This is in a very interesting clash with the constant recalls of MCs earlier life and how it shapes him. Like, at day 100 I'm at 40-50 in secondary stats and I could have been much higher if I grinded them. Makes the initial increases almost meaningless. The stats need way more random and semi-random encounters that give different outcomes depending on them. I haven't delved deep enough, but I have the feeling most of the outcomes are the same, regardless of how you approach them (excluding the few resource extraction events). Now this may seem as "game needs more content" gripe, but it's more of "game needs some variety in the approach events are designed. Yes, I love the idea that all builds should be viable. But at the same time - there are few builds at all (most stat gaining is RNG based), and while it's nice to be able to play your character - it's weird you get the same results.
Maybe you need to meet random entities - vagrants, bandits, traders, damsels in distress, monsters that have multiple ways of turning out. As a simple example - maybe you arrive in a situation similar to Raven's recruitment event - a bunch of Unmade chasing a random chick. Instead of rushing to save her, maybe you can charge wildly (Wild + Magnetic > 60), try hide to ambush them while they pass close to you (Visionary + Mindful > 45) or wait for them to catch her and then stab them in the back (Stoic + Impish > 30). You succeed on your approach - you get a much easier fight, you fail - you get a hard fight. But your approach gives also a different reward and reaction from the victim - a wild charge is hard to pull off, but she is grateful and unhurt regardless of your performance (good reward - idk, a small gem and 10 Hemp), the ambush is much easier but scares the shit out of her and she is much more on guard (lesser reward - just 10 Hemp) and if you let them catch with her - she is now injured (success) or out-right dead (fail) - no reward for you barring the essence of the Unmade.
You're totally right - I originally planned the game to have events based on different stats. For example, when the player hits 100 Stoic a special event would trigger, or when the MC arrives home on low HP for the first time, the girls would react to it. Events that basically tie into the gameplay. I still want to do these things, but there's so many other things to do I haven't got around to them. I don't know when I will, but it's a long-term goal I have.

These stats will also play a role in the newest mechanic coming out with the next patch, Skirmish.

Talking about the stats, let's talk about Combat a bit.
Combat is weird. It feels very RNG based (considering how little your HP grows, enemy damage is very swingy with RNG making the same battle anything from unwinnable to piece of cake). Magic is basically a trap - yes, shield is nice, but since most enemies get one big attack and 1-2 minor ones, martial blocking is way better overall. Especially considering how friggin slow HP recovery is. IMO, magic needs way more options. More special abilities, maybe gained from specific quests, or something.
Again I'll give an example of how I would do it. I'd add a resource - Knowledge (meaning arcane knowledge). You can buy books about magic in the town, find them in random encounters and ruins, etc. You build a "Library (maybe a Study upgrade or better yet - replacement)" in your base and just like with the smelter, you can use it to "burn" artefacts about magic to gain Knowledge and unlock/improve abilities. Boost the damage reduction from magical attacks, increase the stacking maximum, let your shield reflect damage and increase the amount, unlock magical cleave, gain shield regeneration in combat, turn your physical attacks in to leeching ones (restoring HP), gain magic resistance (and add enemies that attack you with magic), gain more essence from enemies... basically a ton of passive and active abilities that would A) make magic more powerful and varied, B) make magical warriors more of a thing and C) boost the CHAR stat (since anything you do with it requires the other two, it's much less important atm).
Melee is ok, atm, but the lack of any options to actually gain passive damage reduction bugs me. I can't become more tankier. I can't get a shield. Armor makes me better at killing people, instead of survival. Eh? It works (I killed everything but the dragon or whatever the creature around the essence pool was) but it feels... boring - slap a cleave or two, then just target the highest DMG attack incoming. This is mostly resolved by making the enemies more varied. Yes, you should always attack the highest damage part, but if one part deals 3x times damage to shields, maybe it's better to block it at the start of combat. +1 PHYS is cool, but an item giving me +1 Armor is also cool. And so on.
I felt, like a lot of thought went in to not making the MC OP. This is resolved much easily by having difficulty levels in the game, then bothering about the MC in a single-player game being OP. And a lot more variety in how enemies work - more variety in stat, more attack options (maybe block 1/2 damage and deal 2x damage yourself, maybe block two parts, but deal 1/2 damage yourself, etc.)
Combat is more of a placeholder right now - it's an early vision of the general direction I want it to go. I'm hoping it gets the job done for now. There should be a lot more abilities to unlock eventually and it needs some reworks (your suggestion about armor hits one of many nails on the head), but I feel other parts of the game are much higher priority at the moment. I'm even willing to completely get rid of it if a better alternative shows itself:)

The Base.
Ok, this is my biggest gripe with the game. Nothing inside the base seemed meaningful. Build that, build this... the only two buildings that I cared about were the healing tent and the pyre, maybe the study. After those I was just waiting on resources. Essence was never a problem (currently sitting at 333 at day 100). I didn't really need to do anything. Never felt pressed for time, never felt the need to devote any attention to the system. I mean, yeah, there are a few resource sinks on the map, but... again, I can just wait. Exploring the place where I am is tied to Raven, instead of being it's own thing and Raven's story being tied to it (not to mention exploring/clearing space in the base would give me something to DO while slowly waiting for my HP to recover at the early stages of the game). In many ways it feels like it's just meant to be a playground for the player to fuck around (probably literally) at much, much, much later stages of the game.
Also, Training tools should be how resource gathering works by default, adding such a building just makes it a linear progression, it might as well be a pre-requisite for all the others. Yeah, you can skip it, but you are gimping yourself by a lot.
I think the Essence curve needs to be smoothed out more - more essence in the beginning (which the coming Skirmish system should provide) and waaay less Essence for smelting items. Also new resource sinks are coming with Active and Passive talents.
About Training Tools being a basic function - completely fair. That's a change I should probably incorporate soon.

Saves not being compatible between versions would unfortunately be more trouble to do than making new content - and I'm short on free time as it is. This early into development I'm still going back and forth in the code, creating dozens of new variables with each patch that would need special attention to add to previous versions with a bunch of conditionals.

Thank you so much for the feedback! Constructive criticism is essential to improving the game as much as possible.
 
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