Ren'Py Oppai Odyssey [v0.4.6] [Cryoxxx]

[DarkBlade12345]

Spoiler: Vann

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[whichone]

Spoiler: Vann

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Totally see where you're coming from, especially with the "spare prick at a wedding\3rd spoke on a wheel" situation.
But, I think that him being "bro" was kind of earned when he helped get us laid in the bar, then saved our ass outside the bar.
Isn't that what a wingman's for?
Also, with him being close to Noel & her family, he gets a bit of a gratis status bump.

 

[S1nsational]

Spoiler: Vann

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Well, if you want to be super cynical about him, which I'm not, but if you want to, you could always see having him around as having a meat shield who can die or get hurt in place of all our LIs.

 

[Pitrik]

Vann > An

Now cryo will hate me

 

[Falbala123]

About your side note, I've been surprised at how many comments there are concerned or upset about Alex's treatment. Not that there's a lot, just a lot more than I'd expect. That guy sucks, and it's fun to watch the universe trample him.

No real complaints, I'm just really surprised he still appears actually. And seeing how the author made him so... low ? I'm not really sure there's a point.

 

[Bill Temple]

No real complaints, I'm just really surprised he still appears actually. And seeing how the author made him so... low ? I'm not really sure there's a point.

The

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is a time-honored tradition. He doesn't need to have a point, but he may. Only Cryo knows.

 

[Alandir]

Totally see where you're coming from, especially with the "spare prick at a wedding\3rd spoke on a wheel" situation.
But, I think that him being "bro" was kind of earned when he helped get us laid in the bar, then saved our ass outside the bar.
Isn't that what a wingman's for?
Also, with him being close to Naomi & her family, he gets a bit of a gratis status bump.

If you just look at what Vann, as a character has done, the bro status is kind of justified.
But if you look at him as a person or an element in the story its really not. Cap and Vann have no history, no similarities to bond over, no shared tragedy. There's no narrative reason why Vann should act like he does towards cap. It just feels like cryo wanted a bro character in the story, so he just put a bro character in the story without bothering to justify why Vann and cap would be bros.

 

[cryoxxx]

If you just look at what Vann, as a character has done, the bro status is kind of justified.
But if you look at him as a person or an element in the story its really not. Cap and Vann have no history, no similarities to bond over, no shared tragedy. There's no narrative reason why Vann should act like he does towards cap. It just feels like cryo wanted a bro character in the story, so he just put a bro character in the story without bothering to justify why Vann and cap would be bros.

dang, it sounds like you've never made a friend before

 

[DarkBlade12345]

Well, if you want to be super cynical about him, which I'm not, but if you want to, you could always see having him around as having a meat shield who can die or get hurt in place of all our LIs.

But the thing is, that I don't hate him either. I don't want something bad to happen to him, though you're right that his death could work to add stakes without killing off one of the LI's.

Totally see where you're coming from, especially with the "spare prick at a wedding\3rd spoke on a wheel" situation.
But, I think that him being "bro" was kind of earned when he helped get us laid in the bar, then saved our ass outside the bar.
Isn't that what a wingman's for?
Also, with him being close to Naomi & her family, he gets a bit of a gratis status bump.

You're not wrong, but in this kind of game, where it's not particularly hard to get laid, it doesn't feel like that big a deal. Also fair, that he saved the MC (though personally, I hate that he had to do that). I'm not denying that he's a nice and cool guy, but I feel like there's more to being a "bro" than just doing nice things. I feel like there wasn't enough time developing a bond with him. Right now, he feels like a guy that I wouldn't mind getting a drink with, but not someone that I'd throw down my life to save or protect.

On a semi related note, was it mentioned in the last update, that Vann was interested in joining the crew?

 

[Alandir]

dang, it sounds like you've never made a friend before

Have you? Friends don't typically pop into existence with a fully formed friendship. That happens over time building mutual trust, respect and affection.

 

[DarkBlade12345]

Cap and Vann have no history, no similarities to bond over, no shared tragedy.

This is probably the biggest sticking point to me. When I look at my favorite "bro," characters from other games they're either introduced with prior history, like Ian in Pale Carnations and Chang in Eternum. Or are introduced early on and the relationship develops over time, like Derek from Being a DIK. It's actually the role that I was hoping Alex would play when I first started this game, before he was revealed to be an unlikable dickhead.

 

[whichone]

If you just look at what Vann, as a character has done, the bro status is kind of justified.
But if you look at him as a person or an element in the story its really not. Cap and Vann have no history, no similarities to bond over, no shared tragedy. There's no narrative reason why Vann should act like he does towards cap. It just feels like cryo wanted a bro character in the story, so he just put a bro character in the story without bothering to justify why Vann and cap would be bros.

That seems a bit self contradictory.
If you look at what he did as a character it's justified, but as a person it's not??
What he did as a character defines who he is as a person.
A decent guy who saved the MC.
Yeah, thanks for saving my life, now let me treat you like some random? WTF?
I feel sorry for anyone who puts themself in danger to help you!

No similarities? Did you miss the part where they both love & respect Noel?
She also highly respects Vann so, as I said, he gets some gratis status from that. As do we, with him.

You're not wrong, but in this kind of game, where it's not particularly hard to get laid, it doesn't feel like that big a deal. Also fair, that he saved the MC (though personally, I hate that he had to do that). I'm not denying that he's a nice and cool guy, but I feel like there's more to being a "bro" than just doing nice things. I feel like there wasn't enough time developing a bond with him. Right now, he feels like a guy that I wouldn't mind getting a drink with, but not someone that I'd throw down my life to save or protect.

On a semi related note, was it mentioned in the last update, that Vann was interested in joining the crew?

To be fair, saving MC from getting kidnapped and sold into slavery (which is what the 2 thugs were discussing doing) qualifies as a lot more than simply "nice", to me.
He literally saved MC's ass.

 

[DarkBlade12345]

To be fair, saving MC from getting kidnapped and sold into slavery (which is what the 2 thugs were discussing doing) qualifies as a little more than "nice", for me.
He literally saved MC's ass.

For one, I'm pretty sure they just decided to rob him after he reached for his gun. Secondly that scene purely exists so that Vann can save you. It's a situation that was created in order to ingratiate Vann to us. It's part of the problem I have with Vann. None of the interactions with him feel organic. It feels like I'm being pandered to.

 

[whichone]

That happens over time building mutual trust, respect and affection.

Yeah, cos saving his life & getting him laid, plus him taking care of Noel's family (despite being her ex) doesn't build any trust, respect, or affection.
Noooo.

For one, I'm pretty sure they just decided to rob him after he reached for his gun. Secondly that scene purely exists so that Vann can save you. It's a situation that was created in order to ingratiate Vann to us. It's part of the problem I have with Vann. None of the interactions with him feel organic. It feels like I'm being pandered to.

They discussed what they were going to do, kidnap him & sell him to the slavers, before they got anywhere near him.
MC only reached for his gun when it was obvious they weren't just trying to help him out. The conversation escalated.
Much like 2 shady guys coming up to you on the street & asking if they can borrow your phone.
You should know (or at least suspect) that they're trying to rob you.

That scene exists as part of the story. It establishes a bond, between MC & Vann, outside of the one created by him being a decent guy who's taken care of Noel's family.

 

[cryoxxx]

Dang sorry for giving captain a ship full of big-boobed hotties. I shouldn't have pandered to you with that! They should have all been grizzly military dudes blowing each other in the showers. Would have been much more organic

 

[S1nsational]

For one, I'm pretty sure they just decided to rob him after he reached for his gun. Secondly that scene purely exists so that Vann can save you. It's a situation that was created in order to ingratiate Vann to us. It's part of the problem I have with Vann. None of the interactions with him feel organic. It feels like I'm being pandered to.

Very nearly everything else in the game is just as inorganic if you want to look at it that way.

We just happen to be made captain of a ship that will conveniently double as a very nice harem mansion.
Our female crew just happen to all be single.

And so on, remember this is a story that someone is telling. There's always going to be a degree of inorganic-ness to what's happening

 

[whichone]

Dang sorry for giving captain a ship full of big-boobed hotties. I shouldn't have pandered to you with that! They should have all been grizzly military dudes blowing each other in the showers. Would have been much more organic

Only if he's known them his whole life, they're similar & they have a shared tragedy.
Fuck, I need to reassess my friends who I've only known for a short time, share no similarity with & certainly have no tragedy. Whatever bond I have with them is inorganic.

 

[cryoxxx]

i'm not asking you to be bros with Vann, and it's never been stated that Cap and Vann are bros. The whole introduction is tailor-made to show off who Vann is, not to force a bro on you. You'll eventually get to meet him for real and dive deeper into his backstory and to help him tackle his feelings for Noel. I've got a lot planned so it hurts just a bit that you are writing him off after 5 mins of conversation with him


Edit: I'll stop trying to defend my decisions now, lol

 

[Bill Temple]

Cap and Vann have no history, no similarities to bond over, no shared tragedy. There's no narrative reason why Vann should act like he does towards cap.

Being eskimo brothers doesn't count? One of my best friends to this day used to smash the girl that I was dating when I met him.

Have you? Friends don't typically pop into existence with a fully formed friendship. That happens over time building mutual trust, respect and affection.

So what's the problem with witnessing the beginning of their friendship, just like we've witnessed the beginning of most of the LI's relationship with the Captain?
Besides, it doesn't always take months to become friends with somebody. Just last weekend, I was at a local park doing batting practice with one of my kids, a guy spoke up giving my kid some suggestions. We talked a bit more later. Now, he's going camping with me and some of my buddies in a couple weeks. Boom! New friend.
One of the guys going camping with us. I met him at poker night several months ago. A bunch of us went to a bar the next night to watch a game. Dude is hilarious. He's all-in on the QAnon stuff, which I think is absolute horse shit, and told him as much. Next table over, a fight breaks out among belligerent randos in the bar. I'm trying to stay out it, but dudes keep falling into me. I push a guy off me, then return my attention to the game. The rando I pushed, still belligerent, decides to sucker punch me because alcohol. QAnon bro laid him out before I even knew what was happening. New friend.

 

[whichone]

i'm not asking you to be bros with Vann, and it's never been stated that Cap and Vann are bros. The whole introduction is tailor-made to show off who Vann is, not to force a bro on you. You'll eventually get to meet him for real and dive deeper into his backstory and to help him tackle his feelings for Noel. I've got a lot planned so it hurts just a bit that you are writing him off after 5 mins of conversation with him


Edit: I'll stop trying to defend my decisions now, lol

That's what happens when people jump to conclusions, without all the information.
You could call that... umm, inorganic? Oh, the irony.