VN Ren'Py Origin Story [v0.8.2] [JDOR]

[Skylaroo]

Another update with good writing and good sex, but I want to see the main plot moving, constant foreshadowings and power-ups are getting stale. I really hope we will finally see some story action in 0.9.

Yeah this is the one thing I wish would've been done differently. The character development keeps on going well with each update, but it feels like it comes at the cost of the really slow plot progression. I'm sure it could've been balanced a bit better. Hopefully season 2 will do that now that a lot of character development has been done and plot is primed to move forward.

 

[Skep-tiker]

I think one of the issues you have here (and I'm not saying it's not an issue other games have) is that consequences aren't immediately apparent, and are often buried under a couple of choices. Some have been mentioned in responses already, so I'll use the "simple" one as an example (still in a spoiler just in case): You can have sex with Cat, but to do that, you have an earlier choice of whether to give money to the homeless woman, and before that you have a choice of how much money to grab from Parker. There's also a choice tree when it comes to the actual scene with Cat, where I can't recall, but you might be able to influence the same outcome two different ways. It can get messy trying to cover that when the first choice comes up, so you probably end up with something like "Sex scene with Cat" or "Blowjob with Cat" in your walkthrough when given the first money choice, which doesn't tell the whole story and can still then be missed depending on later choices before you get to the Cat choice...

I think the two big choices you reference here are at least a lot more simple to detail in a walkthrough - it's the smaller choices that initially seem inconsequential that cause the problem!

As I said, it's an issue many walkthroughs might be faced with (and I do think it helps with the whole "choices have consequences" bit a lot more than the reason becoming immediately apparent does), but it can make it hard to compile a WT as you'd have to backtrack from the consequence, through two or three other choices, until you get to the first one, in order to give people the correct guidance!

That sister, perhaps, but is it not possible that she can have another sister who does look like Parker? I'm not going to consider for myself whether Parker is related or not, except to say that the bit you mention doesn't have to exclude it as a possibility, and also, didn't the dev discourage the creation of an incest patch making Parker and Riley family because it would cause issues later in the story? Or was that only in relation to such a patch making Parker MC's mother, which would already have caused a continuity problem?

And this doesnt even take into account that MCs dad might have a sister too

 

[Dr.TSoni]

And this doesnt even take into account that MCs dad might have a sister too

True, but I think this is where Chekhov's gun comes into play.

 

[Jantio1999]

That sister, perhaps, but is it not possible that she can have another sister who does look like Parker? I'm not going to consider for myself whether Parker is related or not, except to say that the bit you mention doesn't have to exclude it as a possibility, and also, didn't the dev discourage the creation of an incest patch making Parker and Riley family because it would cause issues later in the story? Or was that only in relation to such a patch making Parker MC's mother, which would already have caused a continuity problem?

He is seeing his mom in the mirror, how can he if parker is his mom. So there are already inconsistencies, and it probably will be important for the story in the future....

So difficult to decide now. And also I wonder if there is a right way. Because for example selecting Anna as clone, misses out on the incredible 4some scene. But not selecting misses out on the EV 4 some with anna, which was even more awesome...

 

[TonyMurray]

He is seeing his mom in the mirror, how can he if parker is his mom. So there are already inconsistencies, and it probably will be important for the story in the future....

Not sure if you missed something with this bit, because no one was saying that Parker is his mother. I only said that the dev said not to create a patch to make Parker related, but that I don't know if that was just against making her his mother because it would create inconsistencies (we already know that his mother died, so it would have been an issue long before seeing her in the mirror) or if it was because of some other reveal that we've not yet had (such as Parker actually being related, and so it would cause a conflict unless the patch magically gets the right connection).

 

[Elduriel]

Not sure if you missed something with this bit, because no one was saying that Parker is his mother. I only said that the dev said not to create a patch to make Parker related, but that I don't know if that was just against making her his mother because it would create inconsistencies (we already know that his mother died, so it would have been an issue long before seeing her in the mirror) or if it was because of some other reveal that we've not yet had (such as Parker actually being related, and so it would cause a conflict unless the patch magically gets the right connection).

yeah fuck the incest shit, it ain't 2020 any more, it's so boring. And even if someone made a patch, good luck rewriting all that shit which wouldn't make sense anyway. Just no.

 

[Jantio1999]

Not sure if you missed something with this bit, because no one was saying that Parker is his mother. I only said that the dev said not to create a patch to make Parker related, but that I don't know if that was just against making her his mother because it would create inconsistencies (we already know that his mother died, so it would have been an issue long before seeing her in the mirror) or if it was because of some other reveal that we've not yet had (such as Parker actually being related, and so it would cause a conflict unless the patch magically gets the right connection).

Yeh you are correct about he ipatch, I just added my piece of info to your text,about that inconsistency, because the future is now...

 

[Jantio1999]

yeah fuck the incest shit, it ain't 2020 any more, it's so boring. And even if someone made a patch, good luck rewriting all that shit which wouldn't make sense anyway. Just no.

Incest Patch is okay, when the story is about a landlady and roomy and that kind of shit.

But not when his parents are killed, and it's important for the story.

I think friend of the family is already 100% better, than that retarded landlady and landlord treating like they care more for you than just a rent to be paid. Like come on it's a f*cking sex-game...

So yeh, JUST NO in this game...

 

[Adhdclassic]

Can't remember he was a older teenager when he moved in am I correct? He really didn't live with them that long he just knew them since he was little. I am curious cause when time with Parker and the picture flashbacks it seems like a short time living together

 

[S1nsational]

Ignoring the issue of Patreon for a second, I do wonder how a lot of the player base would react to incest getting added into the game.

Like say it's eventually revealed that Parker is MCs aunt and Riley is MCs cousin, personally I'd love that, but incest isn't for everyone.


And beyond the player base, textually the game is very of two minds in terms of being for or against incest in general.

Everyone keeps calling Parker his mom and Riley his sister, or his stepmom and stepsister. The best friend, who knows he's in a game and knows the tropes of VNs, has even admonished MC against calling them his landlady and housemate. Which as you may or may not note is censorship for mom and sibling typically sister. Georgia says she doesn't judge MC for wanting to fuck Parker despite her being like a mom to him. Ruth make similar comments.
But then there's the situation with Marina. Her actual father wants to have sex with her, with or without her consent. Now it's possible that the threat of rape is the big issue here, more so than the incest desire itself. Would she be more ok with incest in general if it weren't possibly going to be forced on her, if her father was content to simply leave it as a fantasy and not involve her in it? Would she be ok with associating with MC knowing he's happily and consensually engaging in something that she's been running from having forced on her?

 

[Rehwyn]

It's better to rely on your own eyes than to rely on AI in this case. I think it uses pattern recognition and that doesn't deal that well with obscured faces. Maybe staring at the comparison pictures for a few seconds then mentally transposing their faces onto each other would help, starting by the most distinctive feature, which is their nose. Also, they have the same slightly tanned skin. Looks obvious to me, but it might not me the same for others.

But the theory that they are the same person doesn't only rely on the physical similarities. It isn't the first time this topic came up and some other users have explained it in detail.
I'll try to sum up and add some things to the theory that Riley is Ghostraven.

The dev said in the dev notes that he foreshadows "a lot", so you have to play the game and see the theory through that lens.

- Riley's profile picture is her between two posters of Ghostraven behind her in the background.
- Might be a reach, but they both occupy the "R" on top of each other in the main menu
- Riley's room is violet, which is Ghostraven's color.
- She has a mysterious job, etc, etc. Pretty obvious she's using her "job" as a cover for something.
- Ghostraven, normally cold and collected, look very worried when rescuing MC in 0.1
- Ghost is kinda quick to accept MC as a trainee. Maybe because she knows him?
- Riley asks about Ghostraven still being MC's favorite when he comes back. Why did the dev make her ask?
- We're never privy to the one-on-one talks between Riley and the sisters (Ruth, Tanya). We only know what they say when MC is there.
- MC notes a couple of times how fast and athletic Riley is, how she is the most fit person he knows.
- When Ghost fights the giant on TV, MC takes a particular longer look at her. Could be foreshadowing about him feeling the familiarity.
- Riley is 23 and Tanya is 24. Tanya pretty much said they are the founders of the Sisterhood. So their similar age could hint at their prior friendship.
- If Riley is Ghostraven, she would have to wear a wig, so why not contacts too. Or instead of a wig, she uses the hairdresser power introduced in the 0.8 update.
- Most of the counter-arguments to this theory can be easily be explained plot-wise tbh. Voice, why she didn't stay with him, etc

And to go more meta:
- Would JDOR make Ghostraven's true identity a random person we don't know? It wouldn't be very satisfying if that's the case, would it? So, if Ghost is actually someone that was already introduced, there is someone that fits the bill more than most (Riley).
- Riley doesn't have a clear role in the story beyond being the "step-sister", unlike, say, Parker, if she's not Ghostraven.

If this doesn't convince, well, we'll find out in like two years.

As I even said in my post, I wouldn't rely solely on the facial recognition. But it is more than just pattern recognition; it looks at subtle facial measurements etc. that might not be obvious to the eye and is intended to at least partially work even with imperfect inputs. I'd consider it one piece of evidence in a collection of evidence. But, again, it's trained on actual people and not DAZ, and we are missing a slightly clearer Ghostraven face without mask for me to really compare.

Most of the things you mentioned are things I've noticed or considered before myself. (Though on a minor side note, I'll mention that there's almost no way the hairdresser is how she'd conceal her hair; that would mean she has to go spend the time to visit the hairdresser every time she gets called somewhere on an emergency without notice and then again every time she finishes and goes back home). And we know how much of a workaholic Ghostraven is from everything that's been said about her, so I doubt she'd just sit things out that often.

But there's other things that are a bit inconsistent too. I'd have to go back and replay to make a list though. But in any case, my opinion is we don't have enough solid evidence either way to determine anything with reasonable conclusiveness, but it can be fun to discuss either way.

I love the idea that Riley is Ghostraven, genuinely, because the implications are far bigger than "OMG Riley is Ghostraven". She's suppose to be vaccinated, she's the daughter of one of the people that created the vaccine, but she's actually part of the Sisterhood, the face of anyone with a power. This would also explain why she has to hide. Does Parker know? BUT, I'd say there is a 50/50 chance all the "evidence" that supports Riley being Ghostraven is a massive Red Herring. It's too easy. Anyone paying attention, myself included, was talking about them being the same person in the first couple of releases. Either way its a win for me because it's fun and interesting.

That's about where I am too. Nothing outright prevents Riley from being Ghostrave (I don't think), and some evidence is there, but at the moment, I lean more towards it being a big Red Herring due to how "obvious" most of the evidence is.

Spoiler: Riley Theory

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Spoiler: Actually ...

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Yeah, I noticed that comment by Moonsong as well. I suspect we might find out more about that in the next few chapters when MC goes to train.

 

[Adhdclassic]

2 things as far as Riley theory goes I believe MC will find out sooner or later. He has Evelyns power and they are constantly touching sooner or later he will ride her. He either will find out who she is or where she works.
The other thing Parker has made it clear her libido for MC is in overdrive cause of his power so is it MCs fault the husband died by being fucked to death.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Ignoring the issue of Patreon for a second, I do wonder how a lot of the player base would react to incest getting added into the game.

Like say it's eventually revealed that Parker is MCs aunt and Riley is MCs cousin, personally I'd love that, but incest isn't for everyone.

It would be quite useless and would add nothing.

Spoiler: Riley Theory

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It wasn't to be independent from her mother

 

[S1nsational]

2 things as far as Riley theory goes I believe MC will find out sooner or later. He has Evelyns power and they are constantly touching sooner or later he will ride her. He either will find out who she is or where she works.
The other thing Parker has made it clear her libido for MC is in overdrive cause of his power so is it MCs fault the husband died by being fucked to death.

How did Riley hosting MC never even occur to me? That's brilliant!!

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

Ignoring the issue of Patreon for a second, I do wonder how a lot of the player base would react to incest getting added into the game.

Like say it's eventually revealed that Parker is MCs aunt and Riley is MCs cousin, personally I'd love that, but incest isn't for everyone.


And beyond the player base, textually the game is very of two minds in terms of being for or against incest in general.

Everyone keeps calling Parker his mom and Riley his sister, or his stepmom and stepsister. The best friend, who knows he's in a game and knows the tropes of VNs, has even admonished MC against calling them his landlady and housemate. Which as you may or may not note is censorship for mom and sibling typically sister. Georgia says she doesn't judge MC for wanting to fuck Parker despite her being like a mom to him. Ruth make similar comments.
But then there's the situation with Marina. Her actual father wants to have sex with her, with or without her consent. Now it's possible that the threat of rape is the big issue here, more so than the incest desire itself. Would she be more ok with incest in general if it weren't possibly going to be forced on her, if her father was content to simply leave it as a fantasy and not involve her in it? Would she be ok with associating with MC knowing he's happily and consensually engaging in something that she's been running from having forced on her?

You are right that the threat of rape being an issue. Also Marina just doesn't seem to be into incest in general. Even though Georgia and others are ok with it, you don't need to have all characters approving of all things. As for what she would think of MC, it depends on if she could separate her experiences and likes from what the MC likes.

I never care if a game does as long as it makes sense and doesn't feel shoehorned, but this game doesn't really need incest. Would add little. Though it ultimately doesn't matter since Parker fills the "milfy mama" figure fetish role regardless of her relation.

 

[Rehwyn]

It wasn't to be independent from her mother

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. In any case, my comment was about how, as a general rule, normie get stuck with less-desirable jobs than metas with useful powers in this society. Unless my memory is completely off on that; it's been a while since I fully ready the first chapter or two.

How did Riley hosting MC never even occur to me? That's brilliant!!

This is honestly one reason I don't think she's Ghostraven. Riley and MC are constantly touching still, despite the Sisterhood knowing he has Ev's power. If she was Ghostraven, I'd think she'd be more cautious about it, unless she wants him to find out (and for whatever reason doesn't want to or can't just tell him). And there's a non-zero chance Ev has already dream scry'd Riley multiple times.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. In any case, my comment was about how, as a general rule, normie get stuck with less-desirable jobs than metas with useful powers in this society. Unless my memory is completely off on that; it's been a while since I fully ready the first chapter or two.

A few clearly do better in media and get top pick for specialist jobs, but the stigma and surveillance seems to ruin things for most.

 

[Rehwyn]

A few clearly do better in media and get top pick for specialist jobs, but the stigma and surveillance seems to ruin things for most.

I swear there was a comment early on that mentioned it was a general trend too, unless you end up with a shitty or dangerous power. Guess it's time for me to do a replay sometime soon.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. In any case, my comment was about how, as a general rule, normie get stuck with less-desirable jobs than metas with useful powers in this society. Unless my memory is completely off on that; it's been a while since I fully ready the first chapter or two.

We're more or less in the same situation because I vaguely remember her doing that job to prove to herself that she could make it without Parker's help. In addition to remembering Parker saying that she too had paid her way through school by being an exotic dancer.

This is honestly one reason I don't think she's Ghostraven. Riley and MC are constantly touching still, despite the Sisterhood knowing he has Ev's power. If she was Ghostraven, I'd think she'd be more cautious about it. And there's a non-zero chance Ev has already dream scry'd Riley multiple times.

It's almost common knowledge that MC uses that power to get Marina's diary, and if I'm not mistaken, Evelyn and Riley have never touched each other since the beginning of the game.

 

[Rehwyn]

We're more or less in the same situation because I vaguely remember her doing that job to prove to herself that she could make it without Parker's help. In addition to remembering Parker saying that she too had paid her way through school by being an exotic dancer.

No, I remember that too. But what I'm saying is I think there's multiple reasons (personal and societal) she ended up choosing that job, and without societal causes she may have chosen a different way to be independent.

It's almost common knowledge that MC uses that power to get Marina's diary, and if I'm not mistaken, Evelyn and Riley have never touched each other since the beginning of the game.

Yeah, but Ev has been his best friend for a lot longer than just this game, lives next door, and has had her power for two years. It seems unlikely to me that in all that time Ev and Riley never touched, especially before it became common knowledge what her power is or before she learned to control it. It's certainly possible; I just don't see it as likely for now.