VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12.3 Alpha] [Eva Kiss]

[Vernalcash]

What you don´t get or don´t want to get about Emma, is not if Seymour is an antagonist in ORS or not, but the way she operates in general! She has no proof, just a feeling or idea. But this feeling, which could be fully wrong, convinces her she is completely right and simply follows this, obstructing and attacking someone only going by this feeling!
This is not about Seymour, who might be or might be not in murky business, this is about what she would do to anyone! If she would get the idea that Lena or Ian or Joe Doe or Jane Doe are into something she does not like, she would do to them what she does to Seymour, no matter if she has evidence or not!
That is my point here, Seymour being a maybe antagonist of the game, just glosses over this behaviour. I know people in real life thinking like that, you do not wanr them to be your friends! Because for them, only their opinion counts, no matter if right or wrong.

I don't know man Emma is pretty chill in general, for her to act like that she must be pretty sure he's doing some nasty shit and with how he's behaving with Lena it's not hard to believe he did some nasty shit to others who started talking about him and Emma heard the stories. Anyway this is a moot conversation because we already know Emma's right and Seymour is a piece of shit.

 

[Turret]

How truly delusioned do you have to be with everything that screams Antagonist with Geymour with everything he does to screw over Lena out of jobs and making money, threatens to screw over Ian possibly with his book, for you to 'Seymour is a "maybe" antagonist....

Truly amazes me with how naive and delusioned people can be at denying the obivious and clear as day shit of a character. Then again, most want to see what they want to see and have things fit their own narrative without acknowleging reality of a character like Geymour.

You really do not want to get it, right? It does not matter here if Seymour is the main antagonist or not, Emma herself states that she goes by her gut feeling, which may be right or may be wrong and acts on this!
If Emma would get the feeling that Mr. or Mrs. Average are up to thing like Seymour, she would do the same to them, going by simple feeling.
As I said, I have the dubious pleasure to know some people, who like Emma think they are always "right" with their opinion, no matter if that is true or not.

I don't know man Emma is pretty chill in general, for her to act like that she must be pretty sure he's doing some nasty shit and with how he's behaving with Lena it's not hard to believe he did some nasty shit to others who started talking about him and Emma heard the stories. Anyway this is a moot conversation because we already know Emma's right and Seymour is a piece of shit.

And here is once again the crux of this discussion: Emma might be right in Seymours case, BUT and this is my main point(!) she would act the same even if she were wrong about him!! She goes only by her own opinion. She might be right with Seymour, but she will never be always right with her gut feeling!

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Seymour Ward: blackmailer, wealthy oligarch, psychopath. With the help of the corrupt city's goverment, he ruins and buys up all business, monopolizes the city's economy, which allows him to break any prices. Seymour deprives a huge number of people of work and housing. A follower of Nietzschean philosophy from the 19th century "survival of the fittest." He lacks empathy for those around him. He pursues the girl, deprives her of her job and weaves a web in such a way that she gets into his net at a difficult moment for her. The embodiment of all the worst that can be in people.
Seymour fans: No no, you misunderstood him. He is respected and not such a bad person, you can negotiate with him and make a good deal! He gives jobs to people!

Emma: Poured beer on Seymour.
Seymour fans: YOU SCUM!! HANDS OFF BUSINESSMAN, FUCKING ACTIVIST! MOB! WORST CHARACTER! 10 LIFE TERMS IN PRISON!

 

[Turret]

Seymour Ward: blackmailer, wealthy oligarch, psychopath. With the help of the corrupt city's goverment, he ruins and buys up all business, monopolizes the city's economy, which allows him to break any prices. Seymour deprives a huge number of people of work and housing. A follower of Nietzschean philosophy from the 19th century "survival of the fittest." He lacks empathy for those around him. He pursues the girl, deprives her of her job and weaves a web in such a way that she gets into his net at a difficult moment for her. The embodiment of all the worst that can be in people.
Seymour fans: No no, you misunderstood him. He is respected and not such a bad person, you can negotiate with him and make a good deal! He gives jobs to people!

Emma: Poured beer on Seymour.
Seymour fans: YOU SCAM!! HANDS OFF BUSINESSMAN, FUCKING ACTIVIST! MOB! WORST CHARACTER! 10 LIFE TERMS IN PRISON!

And this is one of the woes of these times: Too many people going only by who says something, not what is said!!

I am NOT even fan of Seymour, as REPEATEDLY said, Seymour is not the point here, it could be anybody! Emma goes and acts by by simple opinion and gutfeeling, not evidence or so! In Seymour´s case she might right, but put just for a moment Mr and Mrs. Average in Seymour´s slot in the game. Who have done nothing like him! Emma would STILL treat them like she does Seymour, because she goes by gut feeling and the believe to always be right only!

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

And this is one of the woes of these times: Too many people going only by who says something, not what is said!!

I am NOT even fan of Seymour, as REPEATEDLY said, Seymour is not the point here, it could be anybody! Emma goes and acts by by simple opinion and gutfeeling, not evidence or so! In Seymour´s case she might right, but put just for a moment Mr and Mrs. Average in Seymour´s slot in the game. Who have done nothing like him! Emma would STILL treat them like she does Seymour, because she goes by gut feeling and the believe to always be right only!

My post was written in a joking ironic style. You taked it too serious.

Your post is just demagogy and speculation. You don't have any facts or evidence that Emma's actions are based on opinion and not on knowledge of the real facts about Seymour's cases.
The fact that Seymour is a mob elitist is as simple as adding two plus two, and anyone familiar with the political and economic situation in Baluart will understand this.
You don't have any proof that Emma would be prejudiced against any people.
On the contrary, as we can see from her behavior, she is as friendly as possible with everyone else in the game, sociable, easy-going. I didn't see Emma being hostile or judgmental towards anyone.
Where do you get the information that Emma will treat people the way you think? It doesn't look like a real assessment of the character, more like a bait provocative post.

 

[SerHawkes]

In Seymour´s case she is 100% right

Fixed it for you.

Emma would STILL treat them like she does Seymour

What, you seriesouly expect her to go running around pouring beer on the average person? Just cause she has a feeling on a person? How much of an idiot can you be with that assumation with zero proof to back up your claim on that? If that was the case, Ivy and Jeremy, under your logic, would deserve a beer all over their clothes. Guess what, doesn't happen.

Not sorry to pop that little bubble of yours.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Fixed it for you.



What, you seriesouly expect her to go running around pouring beer on the average person? Just cause she has a feeling on a person? How much of an idiot can you be with that assumation with zero proof to back up your claim on that? If that was the case, Ivy and Jeremy, under your logic, would deserve a beer all over their clothes. Guess what, doesn't happen.

Not sorry to pop that little bubble of yours.

Already all the characters in the game who had contact with Emma had to take things to the dry cleaners. because "EMMA IS READY TO SPLASH BEER ON EVERYONE" Strange that still didn't happen.

 

[bauman]

The dev confirmed years ago that Seymour is the main bad guy in ORS. So far, we haven't seen too much of him doing wicked shit, especially if Lena is on good terms with him, but this will change once the story picks up. I expect the player will get an option to pick a side in the conflict between him and Emma.

 

[Turret]

Fixed it for you.



What, you seriesouly expect her to go running around pouring beer on the average person? Just cause she has a feeling on a person? How much of an idiot can you be with that assumation with zero proof to back up your claim on that? If that was the case, Ivy and Jeremy, under your logic, would deserve a beer all over their clothes. Guess what, doesn't happen.

Not sorry to pop that little bubble of yours.

Once more into the breach for the kiddies:
Emma treats Seymour like she does, because of her opinion and gutfeeling, not evidence or proof! She opposes ,antagonises and attacks him because of her opinion only. She even states she has no proof. Now in Seymour´s Emma is/might be/might be not right.

Now put for one moment Mr. and Mrs. Average, who are nothing like and have done nothing like Seymour did, into Seymour´s slot. Emma get´s the gutfeeling that the Averages are a rich criminals, skimming the city for their own gain (which they are not, as we know). Emma would treat them like she does Seymour, because she goes by her opinion and gutfeeling alone, as we have seen. She believes them to be what Seymour is. Now Emma´s behaviour is not so cool anymore, hmm? It is easy to cheer her on when you know that a major antagonist is in her crosshairs, but when it´s just some poor sod who got in Emma´s sights by pure chance, then you see what her behaviour really is!

Already all the characters in the game who had contact with Emma had to take things to the dry cleaners. because "EMMA IS READY TO SPLASH BEER ON EVERYONE" Strange that still didn't happen.

Apples and oranges, Chummer apples and oranges! Emma does not care about that Jeremy sleeps himslef through half the beds in the city, but if Jeremy would be in a similar position as Seymour is(no matter if it is true or not), she would throw beer on him in a heartbeat.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

It is easy to cheer her on when you know that a major antagonist is in her crosshairs, but when it´s just some poor sod who got in Emma´s sights by pure chance, then you see what her behaviour really is!

Apples and oranges, Chummer apples and oranges! Emma does not care about that Jeremy sleeps himslef through half the beds in the city, but if Jeremy would be in a similar position as Seymour is(no matter if it is true or not), she would throw beer on him in a heartbeat.

And why should she care about Jeremy's personal life and who does he sleep with?
That is, if Jeremy was the main elitist oligarch in the city destroying people's destinies, then she would do the same, because Jeremy would be an elitist oligarch who destroys people's destinies. This is quite logical.
Again, you provided no evidence that Emma's position is based on guesswork, not facts. Weak line. You need to come up with something better.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

What you don´t get or don´t want to get about Emma, is not if Seymour is an antagonist in ORS or not, but the way she operates in general! She has no proof, just a feeling or idea. But this feeling, which could be fully wrong, convinces her she is completely right and simply follows this, obstructing and attacking someone only going by this feeling!
This is not about Seymour, who might be or might be not in murky business, this is about what she would do to anyone! If she would get the idea that Lena or Ian or Joe Doe or Jane Doe are into something she does not like, she would do to them what she does to Seymour, no matter if she has evidence or not!
That is my point here, Seymour being a maybe antagonist of the game, just glosses over this behaviour. I know people in real life thinking like that, you do not wanr them to be your friends! Because for them, only their opinion counts, no matter if right or wrong.

Average Elon Musk fan

 

[Turret]

And why should she care about Jeremy's personal life and who does he sleep with?
That is, if Jeremy was the main elitist oligarch in the city destroying people's destinies, then she would do the same, because Jeremy would be an elitist oligarch who destroys people's destinies. This is quite logical.
Again, you provided no evidence that Emma's position is based on guesswork, not facts. Weak line. You need to come up with something better.

Emma provides in-game evidence that she goes by guesswork and gutfeeling herself, play more than just the "I wanna fuck Emma´s butt" path! For instance, when Lena talks with Emma about her attack on Seymour and later on when going to the disco, it is openly stated that she has no proof but her feeling that Seymour is a baddie. Reinforced if Lena asks Emma if she is sure to be right about Seymour and Emma shows that she is not really 100% sure about it. Still, she treats him like she does, opposing, antagonising and attacking, just because of her opinion.
As I said, it is easy to cheer Emma on if you know the guy in her sights is a baddie, but Emma will not always be right going by just gutfeeling.

 

[SerHawkes]

As I said, it is easy to cheer Emma on if you know the guy in her sights is a baddie, but Emma will not always be right going by just gutfeeling.

And if that is the preverbal case, and if she fucks up, she can always own it and apologize. She seems like the person to own up her mistakes, unlike some of the characters in the game, let alone people in real life.

Again, baseless assumptions without any evidence that she would treat anyone like Geymour based on her feelings.

But do go on preaching to the choir... We're enraptured.

 

[ffive]

Emma provides in-game evidence that she goes by guesswork and gutfeeling herself, play more than just the "I wanna fuck Emma´s butt" path! For instance, when Lena talks with Emma about her attack on Seymour and later on when going to the disco, it is openly stated that she has no proof but her feeling that Seymour is a baddie. Reinforced if Lena asks Emma if she is sure to be right about Seymour and Emma shows that she is not really 100% sure about it.

Could you provide some transcript or screenshot for that? Because i can't find in the game script any talk between Lena and Emma to such effect. Instead, there is this discussion between Emma, Ian and rest of the gang, in Chapter 8:

    i "So, Emma... About what happened yesterday..."
    i "Are you positive Seymour Ward is responsible for all those things you accused him of?"
    e "Yeah. Some of his shady dealings have come to light recently. Everyone knows in my circles."

This definitely doesn't sound like Emma stating she doesn't know what she's talking about and is just guessing, to me.

For Lena and Emma there's this, in Chapter 10:

                l "Actually, he's not so bad..."
                e "What do you mean, he's not so bad?"
                e "Do you know who you're working with?"
                "Emma would never understand. She was blinded by her prejudices."
                l "I think I know him better than you do... Maybe you should try speaking to him before casting your judgment."
                e "I..."
                e "I doubt anything he could say would make me change my mind. I know what he's involved in and what kind of man he is."
                e "But I didn't want to upset you. It's just..."
                l "Let's best drop the subject, alright? I need to focus on the concert..."
                e "Sure."

Again, there's nothing from Emma that suggests she's just guessing things and isn't 100% sure. It's Lena who thinks that, if Lena's disposition towards Seymour is positive.

 

[Doppelgang]

It’s interesting that someone can hate activist so much that it clouds their judgement of a completely obvious part of the plot in a porn game. Someone should invent a word for that.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Emma provides in-game evidence that she goes by guesswork and gutfeeling herself, play more than just the "I wanna fuck Emma´s butt" path! For instance, when Lena talks with Emma about her attack on Seymour and later on when going to the disco, it is openly stated that she has no proof but her feeling that Seymour is a baddie. Reinforced if Lena asks Emma if she is sure to be right about Seymour and Emma shows that she is not really 100% sure about it. Still, she treats him like she does, opposing, antagonising and attacking, just because of her opinion.
As I said, it is easy to cheer Emma on if you know the guy in her sights is a baddie, but Emma will not always be right going by just gutfeeling.

Thanks to ffive I see that you are spreading fake news. She is aware of his shady business dealings in Baruart and how he keeps people on the streets.

Even if you were right that Emma doesn't have any direct evidence of Seymour's guilt, she would be right in the end - because her speculation and opinion would hit the mark because we learn that Seymour is the main antagonist and he is a corrupt oligarch. Plus, he's creepy. It would only speak of Emma's high intelligence and that she would never harm an innocent person.

Your blame line is based on your playthroughs where Lena gets caught up in Seymour's net and becomes his plaything, meaning you play as the ultimate "bad Lena". Apparently you have not tried other runs where the situation unfolds in a completely different way, so your opinion is biased and definitely not a fact. It is based on Emma's blind accusation without evidence, on rumors, and most likely you would accuse any person like that without having reliable information about him, without knowing the whole situation.

 

[mommysboiii]

Alright, I found it.

I guess one of the many versions that came after the Alpha changed the clause for threesome being that Ian and Lena are not a couple (Ian and Lena Couple = False) which explains the lack of Lena reaction to the fact that she is cheating on Ian with Jeremy.

that sucks i really dont like this relationship restrictions whoever does this eva or her mods that help her its so annoying I just want to play my cheracters they way I want cant be that difficult if I wanna cheat with ian I want to be able too , If I want to play a ian that cant get over his ex I want to play this way , if I want to play a ian that get cucked by axel with cindy,holly, or alison in a relationship I want to be able to play loser ian ,chad ian, normal ian and so on.... but I cant if everything is restricted because of crybabys in the internet.

 

[Flowing Thought]

You need to have some limit on possible scenarios to keep development from spreading too widely. If you start allowing more and more conditionals it will become a huge mess.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

that sucks i really dont like this relationship restrictions whoever does this eva or her mods that help her its so annoying I just want to play my cheracters they way I want cant be that difficult if I wanna cheat with ian I want to be able too , If I want to play a ian that cant get over his ex I want to play this way , if I want to play a ian that get cucked by axel with cindy,holly, or alison in a relationship I want to be able to play loser ian ,chad ian, normal ian and so on.... but I cant if everything is restricted because of crybabys in the internet.

I've shared this sentiment when Chapter 9 came out and you couldn't get into a relationship with Ian if Lena fucked Jeremy which made no sense as it was the only clause preventing them from getting together despite the two not being in a committed relationship when it happened. And judging by events of Chapter 10, this would have no major impact on the story that would complicate it too much.

Luckily, where Chapter 10 ends, it looks like the next update might have that development albeit in a way that I am not a fan off.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

You need to have some limit on possible scenarios to keep development from spreading too widely. If you start allowing more and more conditionals it will become a huge mess.

This would make sense if not for the fact that we already had Chapter 10 come out and nothing in it would complicate the story at all. Lena interacts with Jeremy twice, one in the Blazer Club where she literally can cheat on Ian with 2 different guys and another when she has threesome with him and Allison. I don't see how this would complicate stuff too much.

I'd personally make the clauses to be "Lena and Louis Relationship > 5" and "Jeremy and Ian Relationship <5" for it to happen. That way, if Jeremy and Ian aren't the best of friends, Jeremy could go for his Girlfriend and If Louis and Lena are good enough friends then she would feel comfortable to ask her about it. Of course, this is assuming Lena already cheated on Ian with Axel and Mike and has BBC obsession.