VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12.3 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[dontcarewhateverno]

Id also imagine having to rewrite shit cuz the audience prefers characters you didn't have a big role planned for also plays a part in the slowdown time

I'm not sure how much extra thought went into:

"So I heard u like big black dick"
*Eva struggles with the next sentence. Can't quite get it right... until!*
"Uh, yeah."
"Well.."
*what to write.. what to write..*
"Well, how bout DIS big black dick."
(Slurping commences)
*Nailed it! - takes vacation - *

Kidding.. kind of. But I do think some might be overestimating the slowdown on that. Eva has always written with the gardener approach, rather than structuring things out ahead of time. That approach has contributed much to the slowdown since the start of the game so a few changes in character focus wouldn't really affect much time-wise. She's never starting chapters from a mapped-out script.

 

[0tt0von]

Yeah, because her patrons are the ones wanting fetish content more so than EKs own story, and she is pandering to them while neglecting her own story. And sure, money talks and generally the more money is put out, the "more attentive" a developer might be to "ideas". Problem with that is is that when you listen to the moneyshakers and pander to their wants and demands, and ignore the might not be able to afford the game or fans who might have some really good ideas or suggestions all because of paywall, well we already know whats happened with that so far with the pandering that has panned out.

Good Devs, and writers for that matter, don't have a paywall just to get an earful of suggestions or surround themselves with yesmen when it comes to suggestions or feedback of all kinds. They listen to all feedbacks and suggestions, and consider them while sticking to their own story. They may impliment what a fan or fans may have said, but generally they stick to their vision. In this case, EK isn't doing that. She's listening to her patrons who are demanding more fetish content rather than focusing on sticking to her own story. Hell, her own discord is full of yesmen and kiss asses who go REEEE if anyone critisizes her or the game itself. Same goes true for certain other Devs who can't or don't want any feedback or critisism. That doesn't lead to the developer growing as a person. They do what they think everyone likes, have kiss asses who blindly follow and say its the greatest thing since sliced bread, even though you have many who say otherwise, and continue on a path of mediocrity and no true growth.

But honestly, what do you expect here? No one complaining or venting their thoughts on things on an OPEN FORUM? That is all "whining" from us who have thoughts on things and express doubts on the state of things? Oh, you sweet innocent summer child you be...

complain about the authenticity of the free porn game then

 

[GifMeMore1987]

Following this thread I get the feeling some members here spend more time with this game than EK herself (and that's NOT meant as an insult towards her)!

 

[| Vee |]

Following this thread I get the feeling some members here spend more time with this game than EK herself (and that's NOT meant as an insult towards her)!

Being invested in a good story(which was a good story) is not bad imo

 

[| Vee |]

Hey,
I played the game for the first time this year, right before chapter 11 release, and I really really enjoyed. From what I read here there seems to be some reworks, I don't know how things were before and I didn't play GGGB but in my case I think the game is really good and it deserves to be a top game here.

I'm a little anxious for the next update so I looked a little in patreon and it seems that in
2020 - 6 chapters were delivered
2021 - 3 chapters
2022 - 1 chapter
2023 - 1 chapter also

So my question is: What happened? I just read the first few posts in the beginning of each year and wanted to know if guys can tell me why only 2 chapters were release since 2021. Thanks

I'm not sure how much extra thought went into:

"So I heard u like big black dick"
*Eva struggles with the next sentence. Can't quite get it right... until!*
"Uh, yeah."
"Well.."
*what to write.. what to write..*
"Well, how bout DIS big black dick."
(Slurping commences)
*Nailed it! - takes vacation - *

Kidding.. kind of. But I do think some might be overestimating the slowdown on that. Eva has always written with the gardener approach, rather than structuring things out ahead of time. That approach has contributed much to the slowdown since the start of the game so a few changes in character focus wouldn't really affect much time-wise. She's never starting chapters from a mapped-out script.

The thing is If the Dev don't have a story set in her mind and is progressing story on get go than we see very same problems which are with ORS, bringing bullshit characters up to the par by doing rework/s which even dev herself didn't wanted to do but still did it, bringing cameo characters AND including them in main story, Bringing GGGB character (ORS have ton of characters already), original story characters getting sidelined, character inconsistencies and issues with character development/s (as highlighted by Socrambus regarding IanxHolly, IanxCindy, IanxEmma), problems with branching. than cutting down chapters from 20 to 16 and again saying that they may increase them from 16 to 20 and may even exceed 20 in a span of a month.

OH i forgot the infamous writing-block

This all happens when Dev don't have a proper mapped-out script/story set in stone but rather moving story on whim at what Dev feels at the time and to top it all on discord you can't even criticize dev on any of it.

 

[SerHawkes]

Following this thread I get the feeling some members here spend more time with this game than EK herself (and that's NOT meant as an insult towards her)!

No, thats absolutely an insult, and a fitting one at that.

 

[GifMeMore1987]

No, thats absolutely an insult, and a fitting one at that.

 

[ffive]

NGL, i'd rather see another round of cuck debate at this point, than this going on. Too bad there won't be next chapter alpha for a while, to shift the focus.

 

[Gicoo]

Considering how jealous, possessive and hypocritical Lena gets when her love interests pay attention to other women (Axel with Cherry and Cindy, Mike with his gf and Ivy, Ian with Cherry, Cindy and Alison), she could also have cuck content. Though I'm not sure if we have a woman assholish enough to cuck her. Ivy has the best personality for it and kind of does it with Louise, but she is friends with Lena. Cindy and Alison are just too bratty and childish to do so. Minerva could be a excellent candidate, it can also spice up her route which is currently fairly simplistic. If Minerva is a bitch to men, why not also towards women?
At this stage of the game its too late to develop it, I guess Lenas submissive trauma is the equivalent of Ian whining about how Gillian was taken by a another man -> leading to potential being a cuck.

 

[ffive]

Though I'm not sure if we have a woman assholish enough to cuck her.

It's obviously changed_Holly, just going on a fuck spree without care. She already hits on Lena who is in relationship with Ian, she'll have no problem doing it the other way around, too.

 

[Slick Bean]

Holly is just a puppy looking for attention in the wrong parts. Just be mindful it is Ivy and/or Lena who push Holly,
so your assumption she is into anything, or that Lena would care about other women, when Axxel beat her over Cherry,
that is a total other can of worms.

Considering how jealous, possessive and hypocritical Lena gets when her love interests pay attention to other women (Axel with Cherry and Cindy, Mike with his gf and Ivy, Ian with Cherry, Cindy and Alison), she could also have cuck content. Though I'm not sure if we have a woman assholish enough to cuck her. Ivy has the best personality for it and kind of does it with Louise, but she is friends with Lena. Cindy and Alison are just too bratty and childish to do so. Minerva could be a excellent candidate, it can also spice up her route which is currently fairly simplistic. If Minerva is a bitch to men, why not also towards women?
At this stage of the game its too late to develop it, I guess Lenas submissive trauma is the equivalent of Ian whining about how Gillian was taken by a another man -> leading to potential being a cuck.

It's obviously changed_Holly, just going on a fuck spree without care. She already hits on Lena who is in relationship with Ian, she'll have no problem doing it the other way around, too.

Axel Beat Lena, rob threatened her livelyhood, Seymour outright socially ostracized Lena.
What would you do, being afforded the world view of the player?
Is the miriad of paths in this game not enough to cater to your understanding of the story?

 

[dolfe67]

She's listening to her patrons who are demanding more fetish content rather than focusing on sticking to her own story.

How do you know she's not sticking to her own story? Yeah you don't, you just don't like it.

 

[Mfka5]

Yeah, because her patrons are the ones wanting fetish content more so than EKs own story, and she is pandering to them while neglecting her own story. And sure, money talks and generally the more money is put out, the "more attentive" a developer might be to "ideas". Problem with that is is that when you listen to the moneyshakers and pander to their wants and demands, and ignore the might not be able to afford the game or fans who might have some really good ideas or suggestions all because of paywall, well we already know whats happened with that so far with the pandering that has panned out.

Good Devs, and writers for that matter, don't have a paywall just to get an earful of suggestions or surround themselves with yesmen when it comes to suggestions or feedback of all kinds. They listen to all feedbacks and suggestions, and consider them while sticking to their own story. They may impliment what a fan or fans may have said, but generally they stick to their vision. In this case, EK isn't doing that. She's listening to her patrons who are demanding more fetish content rather than focusing on sticking to her own story. Hell, her own discord is full of yesmen and kiss asses who go REEEE if anyone critisizes her or the game itself. Same goes true for certain other Devs who can't or don't want any feedback or critisism. That doesn't lead to the developer growing as a person. They do what they think everyone likes, have kiss asses who blindly follow and say its the greatest thing since sliced bread, even though you have many who say otherwise, and continue on a path of mediocrity and no true growth.

But honestly, what do you expect here? No one complaining or venting their thoughts on things on an OPEN FORUM? That is all "whining" from us who have thoughts on things and express doubts on the state of things? Oh, you sweet innocent summer child you be...

Yes you are whinning.
We already understand you despise EK and everyone else who calls you out on whinning.
But you keep repeating everything hence you are whinning, just move on dude lol

 

[Socrambus]

The thing is with EK, she does things on a whim. She doesn't fully plan shit out as it seems. Much like the reworks of Wade, Stan, the Prologue. Wade was fine before, but all of sudden 'oh here you go, Wade is now jobless and wants to be a gamer pro'... Or 'oh here you go, Stan is gonna get "reworked" to make him a bit better' (Fun fact: Didn't change him one damn bit.) Not to mention the OG prologue was fine to begin with, but all of a sudden 'oh yeah, I redid the prologue, here you go.' And of course there is the three bar scenes inloving Ian and Ivy getting reworked without any explaination (OG-Ian if semi friendly with Axel could hang out with him, talk to Ivy for a bit, gets a kiss the cheek/1st Rework-Same deal, only both flirt/2nd Rework-Forced to hang with Jeremy instead of Axel, no flirty moment with Ivy). Or even the whitewashing of Jeremy's bro from Black to White, which made no sense or even got a real explaintion as to why.

I didn't know about Wade's rework. Could it be to make the audience more sympathetic to Cindy's cheating?. It's a common trope on games to make a LI's partner either a total monster or absolutely pathetic so the LI's cheating with the MC it's easier to be accepted well. I find the opposite take refreshing and hotter like what Love, Lust, and Rock 'n Roll does making the MC's girlfriend very nice and easy to like.

By the way, does anyone has a version of the game before the reworks?. I would like to play it, out of curiosity.

The thing is If the Dev don't have a story set in her mind and is progressing story on get go than we see very same problems which are with ORS, bringing bullshit characters up to the par by doing rework/s which even dev herself didn't wanted to do but still did it, bringing cameo characters AND including them in main story, Bringing GGGB character (ORS have ton of characters already), original story characters getting sidelined, character inconsistencies and issues with character development/s (as highlighted by Socrambus regarding IanxHolly, IanxCindy, IanxEmma), problems with branching. than cutting down chapters from 20 10 16 and again saying that they may increase them from 16 to 20 and may even exceed 20 in a span of a month.

OH i forgot the infamous writing-block

This all happens when Dev don't have a proper mapped-out script/story set in stone but rather moving story on whim at what Dev feels at the time and to top it all on discord you can't even criticize dev on any of it.

Thing is reworks happen all the time in games, but they are not usually obvious because we only see the final version, we don't see the whole process. I am thinking for example in Danganronpa being quite different to the original prototype (Distrust). And you can see it in tv series where they change a character after receiving feedback, specially after the pilot.

Considering how jealous, possessive and hypocritical Lena gets when her love interests pay attention to other women (Axel with Cherry and Cindy, Mike with his gf and Ivy, Ian with Cherry, Cindy and Alison), she could also have cuck content. Though I'm not sure if we have a woman assholish enough to cuck her. Ivy has the best personality for it and kind of does it with Louise, but she is friends with Lena. Cindy and Alison are just too bratty and childish to do so. Minerva could be a excellent candidate, it can also spice up her route which is currently fairly simplistic. If Minerva is a bitch to men, why not also towards women?
At this stage of the game its too late to develop it, I guess Lenas submissive trauma is the equivalent of Ian whining about how Gillian was taken by a another man -> leading to potential being a cuck.

I find Minerva's behaviour towards Ian as the most bratty and childish of all the characters. She behaves like a first grade kid annoying his crush to show interest. And I don't really get how Ian's trauma with Gillian's cheating can evolve to him being a cuck. But I don't understand cucking very well, maybe someone with IRL experience can explain.

 

[Gicoo]

I find Minerva's behaviour towards Ian as the most bratty and childish of all the characters. She behaves like a first grade kid annoying his crush to show interest

She is relatively intelligent in manipulating and toying with people, so I consider her more ruthless and than Cindy or Alison. Man, this game lacks evil female characters, we don't really have a female Seymour or Axel. Agnes is probably dropped (and not even part of Ians story) and Gillian doesn't seem like a crazy psycho ex either

And I don't really get how Ian's trauma with Gillian's cheating can evolve to him being a cuck. But I don't understand cucking very well, maybe someone with IRL experience can explain.

Him occasionally lamenting about her and especially his dream in chapter 11 when she gets fucked right in front of him pretty much seals the connection beween him being upset about her cheating, but also potentially getting turned on out it and embracing the self-loathing and getting toyed with his inferiority.
Cucking is mostly a porn fantasy for instant gratification that barely makes sense - especially the million NTR scenarios that just don't work in RL when people use their brains and think about mid and long-term ramifications of cheating or doing it with a dubios partner. I assume IRL its done through swinging and requires mutual arrangement and communication so thats its clear what the other partner even want.

By the way, does anyone has a version of the game before the reworks?. I would like to play it, out of curiosity.

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[Kraken0254]

I want more Alison , Ian and Jeremy Content .

 

[| Vee |]

How do you know she's not sticking to her own story? Yeah you don't, you just don't like it.

SerHawkes Leave them be. Repeating same things over and over won't make them understand if they don't want to understand in first place as same things are shoved in their faces with proofs already many times.

Lets discuss other things in which every can participate. Ease up the tension in thread!

 

[Socrambus]

She is relatively intelligent in manipulating and toying with people, so I consider her more ruthless and than Cindy or Alison. Man, this game lacks evil female characters, we don't really have a female Seymour or Axel. Agnes is probably dropped (and not even part of Ians story) and Gillian doesn't seem like a crazy psycho ex either

I agree with you, but I think Ivy currently has a better potential for that role than Minerva. If Eva wrote Minera with a different motivation, I could see it. Like for example writing Minerva as a more dom character blackmailing Ian for sex, just make her clearly and unapologetically evil. But she chose to write her as a little bitch to awkwardly express Ian turns her on.

Him occasionally lamenting about her and especially his dream in chapter 11 when she gets fucked right in front of him pretty much seals the connection beween him being upset about her cheating, but also potentially getting turned on out it and embracing the self-loathing and getting toyed with his inferiority.
Cucking is mostly a porn fantasy for instant gratification that barely makes sense - especially the million NTR scenarios that just don't work in RL when people use their brains and think about mid and long-term ramifications of cheating or doing it with a dubios partner. I assume IRL its done through swinging and requires mutual arrangement and communication so thats its clear what the other partner even want.

I get the reasoning in game, but as you said, I find it difficult to translate that reasoning to RL. That's why I asked for someone with RL experience on the matter, to understand if the reasoning might be valid and I just don't get it or is a case of "game logic" not making sense IRL.

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Thank you very much.

 

[| Vee |]

Gicoo and Socrambus the only character with the potential of literally cucking Lena where Lena is cuckqueen as of now is Ivy. Minerva is not upto par to do that with an unknown character (no LenaxMinerva story progression except Lena can mock Minerva behind her back with Ivy scene). Ivy has the most possibility or EK might throw in Jessica in Future as EK mentioned IanxJessica who is also another capable character of putting Lena on cuckqueen path.

So possible are 2 candidates:

1. Ivy (as of now)
2. Jessica (may be in future)
3. or BOTH

 

[dobzzz]

I have my criticisms about the direction this game's story is taking, but EvaKiss' care for the quality of the material is undeniable. I believe this is one of the only games available here in which your choices REALLY MATTER and change the course of the story considerably.

EvaKiss deserves these numbers, which will rise even higher after the release on Steam.

True ,but am just suprised cuz the growth was so rapid