VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[Xupuzulla]

Who the fuck wants Ian gone?
You guys are fighting ghosts at this point.
Also is not like this thread has any pull on EK decisions

 

[BlandChili]

Generic female MC games are a dime a dozen on this website and the best one already got made by EK so what would be point of making ORS if not for Ian's part. A huge reason why ORS is the best game on here is the dual protagonist mechanic. I don't understand people who want to cut out Ian's part, literally why even play the game at that point? GGGB is right there, alongside a whole bunch of other female MC games where the MC gets seduced by rich assholes and BBC.

Eh, I think ORS is good in spite of the dual protagonist system, not because of it.
I think Eva has floundered around doing revisions and making character changes that it's pretty clear that the dual-protag system is a concept that is hard to develop for a single writer at the scale that she's working with.

Besides, I think there is plenty of content and themes to explore with female main characters that are interesting. Eva doesn't want to be "the one" to explore all of them, that's fair enough.

I have no wish to see Ian removed, not while the game is being made anyway. Even if I had such a wish, I don't see the point when the game's already as far along as it is in development. I'd have still preferred the game be without him if it was only just coming out now, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[jimul18]

That's a misinterpretation of what was said leading you astray. "half prefer Lena" refers to 49% who literally prefer Lena. The 33% you try to add to it stated they like both MCs equally.

(i get that adding 17+33 can look fishy in this context, but i think the argument was that these 50% combined can be safely said they don't dislike Ian. The remaining 49% might, but not necessarily to the point of wanting to see him removed)

I get that and I was overly facetious to make a point. Where the conversation was headed this poll isn't really helpful anyway.

The more interesting question would be: if for some reason, be it death or soap opera coma, one character would be sidelined for a couple of episodes would this speed up production or streamline branching/writing? Again if that were the case the logical choice based on this limited poll would be Ian. Nothing against the character in general, this is not a question of narrative but rather the 'one-two episodes per year' elephant in the room. So if you gave the patreons (and I was one for a time, from the later stages of GGGB to the earlier episodes of ORS) the choice between the current story paradigm and for the sake of the argument a ~60 day update cycle I am not sure which way they would lean. At this point most discussions (even here) have become a teensy bit of a circlejerk.

And EK at one point has floated the idea of character based updates but imho that doesn't solve the branching problem but exacerbates it.

 

[ffive]

If for some reason, be it death or soap opera coma, one character would be sidelined for a couple of episodes would this speed up production or streamline branching/writing?

It might speed up production in the sense you effectively remove half of the story along with characters which are interacting only with the removed MC, but you're doing it at the cost of upsetting at least half of your playerbase who do like to play this character. So i don't feel like it's a tradeoff the game would benefit from.

Also, as long as the character remains in the story you aren't streamlining anything, because plot lines associated with this character will still need to be resolved after they're back (and while they are sidelined you need to account for reactions of rest of the cast to this situation. And if you give the player any options regarding this, you're only increasing the number of variations)

 

[jimul18]

It might speed up production in the sense you effectively remove half of the story along with characters which are interacting only with the removed MC, but you're doing it at the cost of upsetting at least half of your playerbase who do like to play this character. So i don't feel like it's a tradeoff the game would benefit from.

True and this conversation is moot anyway since EK isn't bleeding patreons, so there is no incentive to change anything.

 

[Arata20]

Eva isn't going to change the core structure of the game just because of a user-base preference.

And this is her mistake when creating ors.

 

[fatpussy123]

Eh, I think ORS is good in spite of the dual protagonist system, not because of it.
I think Eva has floundered around doing revisions and making character changes that it's pretty clear that the dual-protag system is a concept that is hard to develop for a single writer at the scale that she's working with.

Besides, I think there is plenty of content and themes to explore with female main characters that are interesting. Eva doesn't want to be "the one" to explore all of them, that's fair enough.

I have no wish to see Ian removed, not while the game is being made anyway. Even if I had such a wish, I don't see the point when the game's already as far along as it is in development. I'd have still preferred the game be without him if it was only just coming out now, but that's neither here nor there.

The dual protagonist system has raised issues for the development, but it's still the key feature of the game. So much of the game is designed around it, the cheating, the influencing characters affecting others routes, and the general concept of having the ability to sexually romance the majority of characters in a believable manner. In a male MC game Jeremy would not get any scenes, at most a sharing scene, and vice versa in a female MC game all the women would be force written to be bisexual. ORS doesn't have these problems. And also as was pointed out earlier cutting Ian's content would remove key arcs in the story, all of Alisons content, Cindy's entire slow disillusionment with Wade, Hollys romance plot, the whole lot would not exist.

Its great that you specifically don't want Ian's part to be cut, but there are absolutely people here that want this game to be single protagonist and it's them who I was addressing.

 

[dolfe67]

In a male MC game Jeremy would not get any scenes, at most a sharing scene, and vice versa in a female MC game all the women would be force written to be bisexual. ORS doesn't have these problems.

Though there are female LI for Lena but no male LI for Ian

And also as was pointed out earlier cutting Ian's content would remove key arcs in the story, all of Alisons content, Cindy's entire slow disillusionment with Wade, Hollys romance plot, the whole lot would not exist.

It would exist, but not from an active role. And people complain that Lena has no decent male LI except Ian, he could have been a NPC

 

[Leonardovisk]

To be fair Ian is not that bad. Well at least he is better than 99,99% of males chars in other renpy games.

The problem is...Lena choices, personality, texts, options, arcs...is soo much better.

And, don't forget we all came from GGGB

 

[GokutheG]

To be fair Ian is not that bad. Well at least he is better than 99,99% of males chars in other renpy games.

The problem is...Lena choices, personality, texts, options, arcs...is soo much better.

Ian's a decent guy protagonist but he is not the reason I play this game.

I personally feel that Ian holds back the full potential of Lena's path. There could be much more branching choices if the dev also didn't need to maintain the 2nd protagonist. Most of Ian's content could easily be shifted over to Lena by making his friends and their stories her's.

The only difficult changes that I could think of are new roles for Alison and Minerva. Everything could stay mostly stay the same if Ian was removed(I'm not arguing for that tho).

 

[Leongen43]

To be fair Ian is not that bad. Well at least he is better than 99,99% of males chars in other renpy games.

The problem is...Lena choices, personality, texts, options, arcs...is soo much better.

And, don't forget we all came from GGGB

The factors could be several and the first is obvious: followers prefer Lena but it could also be that she receives more attention because it is easier for EK to work with a female character than with a male one, right?

 

[ffive]

The problem is...Lena choices, personality, texts, options, arcs...is soo much better.

So long as Cindy is only on Ian's side Lena's choices are, at best, a draw.

(but a bit more seriously i can't really think of any choices Lena has that i'd consider "much better". In fact, complaints about Lena's options being pretty shit in general are quite common)

 

[Gicoo]

In fact, complaints about Lena's options being pretty shit in general are quite common)

Pretty much why I favor Ian over her. Technically Lena is better since she is a hot girl and Ian a random guy, but if we think one step further (a simple task which the patreon poll and its voters fail to acomplish) and consider the content they unlock, then Ian grants access to most girls (and Ivy currently being only an option for Lena is one of the bigger criticism) while Lena has awful options like Robert, Stan and so so like Jeremy or Mike. Axel and Seymour work, but they are flat out irredeemable antagonists.

 

[lorkdubo]

So long as Cindy is only on Ian's side Lena's choices are, at best, a draw.

(but a bit more seriously i can't really think of any choices Lena has that i'd consider "much better". In fact, complaints about Lena's options being pretty shit in general are quite common)

The loyal Ian+Lena path is such a breath of fresh air. If not Lena is the cookie cutter slutty female main character that's is boring as stale bread. The path with Semyour is boring shit as 50 shades of grey were, mind you if you like that stuff but it's not original. Actual characters that behave normally in an AVN. WOW!!!

 

[Gicoo]

The loyal Ian+Lena path is such a breath of fresh air. If not Lena is the cookie cutter slutty female main character that's is boring as stale bread. The path with Semyour is boring shit as 50 shades of grey were, mind you if you like that stuff but it's not original. Actual characters that behave normally in an AVN. WOW!!!

Even for generic romances Lena isn't particulary interesting. Mostly, because she has too much drama and is not in a position in life in which she wants to pursue a stable romance. I'd rather have Ian with Holly or Alison for a vanilla romance, since those girls are far more willing to commit (Alison only gets off the road if Ian rejects her).

 

[Leonardovisk]

The loyal Ian+Lena path is such a breath of fresh air. If not Lena is the cookie cutter slutty female main character that's is boring as stale bread. The path with Semyour is boring shit as 50 shades of grey were, mind you if you like that stuff but it's not original. Actual characters that behave normally in an AVN. WOW!!!

Im part of the small group that finds Lena and Seymour is the way. I think its the most well writen arc.

Not 50 Shades influence but the Eyes Wide Shut influence.

 

[Leongen43]

Even for generic romances Lena isn't particulary interesting. Mostly, because she has too much drama and is not in a position in life in which she wants to pursue a stable romance. I'd rather have Ian with Holly or Alison for a vanilla romance, since those girls are far more willing to commit (Alison only gets off the road if Ian rejects her).

What has to do with relationships, Ian has a huge advantage since he has more options to have a good relationship while Lena, with the exception of Ian, the other male characters are a disaster because they are losers, toxic or dangerous for her, so at the same time Unless they are with Ian, it is better for Lena to be single until she has the option of having a relationship with a girl (Holly/Ivy), right?

 

[jaylop09]

Playing Ian is not bad per se. But in games like this it feels better to corrupt the female main character with our own choices. Meanwhile, playing a male it feels like a free harem at your disposal...which honestly is not that fun.

 

[ffive]

Im part of the small group that finds Lena and Seymour is the way. I think its the most well writen arc.

To each their own, but the only interesting aspect of that arc to me was whether Lena would manage to get out of the spiral if she was initially enthusiastic about it. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be option whatsoever, and at this point it gets increasingly likely it won't be. And i can't say the generic "a fat dude pays a girl to play with herself for him" is of any real interest as far as story arcs go, because this is very much a copy of what Lena is doing with her Stalkfap.

 

[digiguyalex]

Playing Ian is not bad per se. But in games like this it feels better to corrupt the female main character with our own choices. Meanwhile, playing a male it feels like a free harem at your disposal...which honestly is not that fun.

What you woud like more than a harem at your disposal? Would you like to grind more the relationships?