VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 BETA] [Eva Kiss]

[xsssssssss]

From a practical

For the time skip and whether it will happen, see Eva's response to BjqB489, 6 months ago:

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Spoiler: Eva's Response

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Obviously you have to trust the author but i have my qualms about how dropping the reins of control for a time skip(especially a longish time skip) would feel. Is the time skip going to (kick over the board) so to speak in terms of these relationships we've built so we have to resolve anew? Otherwise if relationships are consolidated, then further embedded by a time skip what would they be looking to resolve.

 

[BlandChili]

Obviously you have to trust the author but i have my qualms about how dropping the reins of control for a time skip(especially a longish time skip) would feel. Is the time skip going to (kick over the board) so to speak in terms of these relationships we've built so we have to resolve anew? Otherwise if relationships are consolidated, then further embedded by a time skip what would they be looking to resolve.

Exactly, that's what I mean when I say it's specifically pronounced in games, especially games that rely on player agency in the narrative.

Disreagarding everything else, every other argument, at the basis of it all it's just frustrating to have the story forced out of your hands for a completely random amount of time and for a number of events to transpire in a forceful manner.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

I agree about all those potential problems regarding a time skip, but overall I'm not that worried about it. Narratively it's often used as an easy solution, but it's reassuring that she's planned it from early on in the development, and probably has a clear plan for what she wants to achieve with it.

I remember from playing GGGB that I thought it would've been fun to play further on some of the routes after seeing them in the epilogue. Of course, with a porn star or gang leader Ashley it didn't feel like there were anything more to do, but some of the more wholesome routes could have gone on for longer, in my opinion.

In general, I think one weakness for a lot of these kind of games is that they're limited to a very short period of time. One of the few other playable games on this site, Being a DIK, has been in development for a few years already, and has a lot of content, but it still only plays out in a few week. My guess is Eva wants to delve deeper into the relationships than GGGB and similar games do, and I think a time skip is a fair way to achieve that.

It does however place some massive demands on the storytelling. If all the strings aren't properly tied together and if there's events during the time skip that aren't adequately foreshadowed or implemented in the game, there's a big chance people will be disappointed because the characters are doing things they didn't want them to do.

To sum up: A bad time skip could really fuck things up, a good time skip (and that's way more difficult to write than a bad one) could really raise the game another level.

(Edit: Sorry for the initial half finished comment, I accidentaly hit "post" and was then disturbed before I could write the last couple of paragraphs.)

 

[BlandChili]

I agree about all those potential problems regarding a time skip, but overall I'm not that worried about it. Narratively it's often used as an easy solution, but it's reassuring that she's planned it from early on in the development, and probably has a clear plan for what she wants to achieve with it.

I wouldn't necessarily claim any deep worry that everything would unravel, just that it's generally not a good tool to implement unless there are some clear endpoint for the currently open storylines. As the story stands right now I feel like Eva has a lot of strings to tie together to make a convincing time-swtich point.

In general, I think one weakness for a lot of these kind of games is that they're limited to a very short period of time. One of the few other playable games on this site, Being a DIK, has been in development for a few years already, and has a lot of content, but it still only plays out in a few week. My guess is Eva wants to delve deeper into the relationships than GGGB and similar games do, and I think a time skip is a fair way to achieve that.

It can work, as long as the proper prep-work to deliver on currently open and hinted-at options are resolved. I'll admit openly that one of the reasons for my vocal opposition right away is because I feel that some of these options are still in limbo. Assuming ~20 episodes stick, we're pretty close to that point.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

I wouldn't necessarily claim any deep worry that everything would unravel, just that it's generally not a good tool to implement unless there are some clear endpoint for the currently open storylines. As the story stands right now I feel like Eva has a lot of strings to tie together to make a convincing time-swtich point.

It can work, as long as the proper prep-work to deliver on currently open and hinted-at options are resolved. I'll admit openly that one of the reasons for my vocal opposition right away is because I feel that some of these options are still in limbo. Assuming ~20 episodes stick, we're pretty close to that point.

Oh, I definitely agree that a convincing time skip point still seems a far way off. Three episodes feels too early as it stands now. Maybe five or six, depending on to what extent those episodes focus on resolving the already existing story lines?

I would also imagine that a time skip will be more exciting if you're focusing on one (or two) serious relationships for each character. With a Lena playthrough mostly with characters like Robert and Mike, I'm struggling to see what a time skip could contribute to.

 

[BlandChili]

Oh, I definitely agree that a convincing time skip point still seems a far way off. Three episodes feels too early as it stands now. Maybe five or six, depending on to what extent those episodes focus on resolving the already existing story lines?

I would also imagine that a time skip will be more exciting if you're focusing on one (or two) serious relationships for each character. With a Lena playthrough mostly with characters like Robert and Mike, I'm struggling to see what a time skip could contribute to.

I hate to bark at the "Ian/Lena story imbalance" tree again, but I think that's what the story really needs to address before any time skip, at least when it comes to sexual/romantic relationships.

As it stands Ian currently have four women with whom he is nearing something that could resemble a relationship starting point: Lena, Alison, Cindy and Holly.

For Lena it's, like, only Ian? I don't have the right perspective to judge where Robert stands in ch. 7. Feel free to add this in a spoiler for me: If Lena pursues only Robert, what's their "relationship status" (or what you'd call it) at the end of ch. 7? Otherwise she has something non-defined with Louise and a fling with Mike.

For Ian Alison seems pretty much wrapped up, at the very least if you've gone for a monogamous playthrough with her. Cindy and Holly feels like they're going to have a "the morning after" episode with him, depending on choices and to tie their paths back into the main story again. The player controls Lena so they probably get to decide how Lena feels about everything, but she'll probably be involved in whatever fallout results from Ian's ch. 7 ending.

Otherwise for Lena I feel like Louise and Mike are both wildcards. "Lena's comfortable with casual sex" is only entertaining for so long, so at some point I imagine there's going to be something that lets the player define Lena's long-term interest in those two.
Mike's got that girlfriend supposedly. I have no idea if that's going to play a direct role or if she'll just be discarded in the background at some point.
The whole Jeremy/Ivy/Louise thing will have to reach some sort of point where there aren't many different variables. I wonder if the Louise/Jeremy relationship will be allowed to survive into an eventual time skip or if it's doomed to fail before such a point. If it does fail inevitably the Louise/Lena ship will probably turn romantic around that same point. I imagine there might be an alternative initiation point for Lena/Louise to become a couple at such a point.
If we're lucky something in the Holly/Lena slow-burn will finally come around too.
Then there's Axel and Seymour. Surely something will come of them, but in one of my playthroughs they don't have a presence in Lena's life at all, so I'm not sure what the ultimate plan for those two will be.

 

[Mrsubtle]

Big Zeta

Seems like the type of "girl" she is is pretty malleable to what Ian and Lena want

Malleable? I'll suspect she's quite the closet deviant, sure she may look like the Girl next door. But we barely know her. Like I've said before she's in-experienced but doesn't mind being Kissed by Lena or Ivy, and all though Insecure with the pole dancing, you can Encourage her. This still needs to Develop ofc.

Dont under estimate Introverted Perverted People they exist, some look Cute and innocent but give them the chance and they might cross a line you wont.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

I hate to bark at the "Ian/Lena story imbalance" tree again, but I think that's what the story really needs to address before any time skip, at least when it comes to sexual/romantic relationships.

As it stands Ian currently have four women with whom he is nearing something that could resemble a relationship starting point: Lena, Alison, Cindy and Holly.

For Lena it's, like, only Ian? I don't have the right perspective to judge where Robert stands in ch. 7. Feel free to add this in a spoiler for me: If Lena pursues only Robert, what's their "relationship status" (or what you'd call it) at the end of ch. 7? Otherwise she has something non-defined with Louise and a fling with Mike.

For Ian Alison seems pretty much wrapped up, at the very least if you've gone for a monogamous playthrough with her. Cindy and Holly feels like they're going to have a "the morning after" episode with him, depending on choices and to tie their paths back into the main story again. The player controls Lena so they probably get to decide how Lena feels about everything, but she'll probably be involved in whatever fallout results from Ian's ch. 7 ending.

Otherwise for Lena I feel like Louise and Mike are both wildcards. "Lena's comfortable with casual sex" is only entertaining for so long, so at some point I imagine there's going to be something that lets the player define Lena's long-term interest in those two.
Mike's got that girlfriend supposedly. I have no idea if that's going to play a direct role or if she'll just be discarded in the background at some point.
The whole Jeremy/Ivy/Louise thing will have to reach some sort of point where there aren't many different variables. I wonder if the Louise/Jeremy relationship will be allowed to survive into an eventual time skip or if it's doomed to fail before such a point. If it does fail inevitably the Louise/Lena ship will probably turn romantic around that same point. I imagine there might be an alternative initiation point for Lena/Louise to become a couple at such a point.
If we're lucky something in the Holly/Lena slow-burn will finally come around too.
Then there's Axel and Seymour. Surely something will come of them, but in one of my playthroughs they don't have a presence in Lena's life at all, so I'm not sure what the ultimate plan for those two will be.

Haha, that's exactly what I thought of immediately after posting my previous comment – the fact that the imbalance between Ian's and Lena's storylines, as it stands now, would be even bigger with a time skip.

And Robert definitely isn't a relationship option. After the life drawing event, where Ian and Robert meet, Robert gets all clingy again and Lena can choose between dumping him or telling him they can still hook up. Pretty much the same as with Doug in GGGB.

I really want Louise to be a convincing option for Lena, but her insecurities really feel impossible to overcome on a completely different level than with Holly. Her view of the world around her is so black and white: Jeremy is her boyfriend, i.e. he is perfect. Meaning Ivy is pure evil, and meaning she refuses to listen if Lena tries to warn her. After breaking up with Jeremy, her view of him flips completely to the opposite side, and she puts Lena in his previous saintlike position. Maybe a relationship with Lena from a more healthy starting point could be a way to overcome those issues, but as things stand now, she doesn't appear as a person capable of handling the challenges of a relationship over time.

 

[BlandChili]

And Robert definitely isn't a relationship option. After the life drawing event, where Ian and Robert meet, Robert gets all clingy again and Lena can choose between dumping him or telling him they can still hook up. Pretty much the same as with Doug in GGGB.

Huh, so he flips out regardless of what Ian and Lena's relationship is like? If you don't do the drawing event something else has to come up to show this off down the line, it seems like Eva wants that relationship to not work.

I really want Louise to be a convincing option for Lena, but her insecurities really feel impossible to overcome on a completely different level than with Holly. Her view of the world around her is so black and white: Jeremy is her boyfriend, i.e. he is perfect. Meaning Ivy is pure evil, and meaning she refuses to listen if Lena tries to warn her. After breaking up with Jeremy, her view of him flips completely to the opposite side, and she puts Lena in his previous saintlike position. Maybe a relationship with Lena from a more healthy starting point could be a way to overcome those issues, but as things stand now, she doesn't appear as a person capable of handling the challenges of a relationship over time.

Yeah, I agree. It does make me curious about more details to Louise's life. What's caused her to have this erratic view of people?

 

[mannice431]

Huh, so he flips out regardless of what Ian and Lena's relationship is like? If you don't do the drawing event something else has to come up to show this off down the line, it seems like Eva wants that relationship to not work.

Yeah, I agree. It does make me curious about more details to Louise's life. What's caused her to have this erratic view of people?

It might just be her part of her personality, some people are very crash and burn about relationships, they'll put everything into a relationship and if doesn't work out they lash out (in their minds, it wasn't their fault things didn't work out, it was because of x,y and z).

I don't know if Eva's gonna do flashback sequences but i think they'd be great in expanding the characters backstory.

 

[Mrsubtle]

Why are you peoples trying to add logic in a medium that is based on Fiction? All the characters are Archetypes to begin with, there only so much story you can add in a development cycle that gets released per update in a certain amount of time.

If you are going to nit pick on anything and everything you'll never be happy.

 

[fighterzer98]

Does anyone know how many chapters eva kiss is planning?

 

[BlandChili]

Why are you peoples trying to add logic in a medium that is based on Fiction? All the characters are Archetypes to begin with, there only so much story you can add in a development cycle that gets released per update in a certain amount of time.

If you are going to nit pick on anything and everything you'll never be happy.

You're aware this is a discussion board right? What's even the point of asking a trite question like that? It's literally the point of this website to share and discuss information on the games featured in each thread.

You apply logic because usually fiction at least tries to follow it to a degree, even if it's "fictional" and ultimately expressed in ways that wouldn't necessarily be applicaple to real world situations. Surely this isn't a revalation?

It might just be her part of her personality, some people are very crash and burn about relationships, they'll put everything into a relationship and if doesn't work out they lash out (in their minds, it wasn't their fault things didn't work out, it was because of x,y and z).

I suppose. I have known people that were similar, although perhaps not quite as expressive

 

[xgrotesc]

Does anyone know how many chapters eva kiss is planning?

No, not even she knows.

 

[Mrsubtle]

You're aware this is a discussion board right? What's even the point of asking a trite question like that? It's literally the point of this website to share and discuss information on the games featured in each thread.

You apply logic because usually fiction at least tries to follow it to a degree, even if it's "fictional" and ultimately expressed in ways that wouldn't necessarily be applicaple to real world situations. Surely this isn't a revalation?

I suppose. I have known people that were similar, although perhaps not quite as expressive

Guess i forgot that but do see some peoples get way to much invested in it. Guess the production values are high on this game.
So peoples wanna than usually also push it further.

Louise is a bit stigmatic in her believes so If people do wish for her to change one way or another than you need to write some events that can stimulate her character development. Guess Lena's prospects should or could have similar life changing experiences.

Though they are all mostly support and have at best 1 maybe 2 roles to play.

 

[unocrus]

Question for the bit I left in your spoiler:
What are the specifics for getting this? I wasn't actually aware that anything had come of the Ed thing yet, I assumed it would and I felt like I might have to face it eventually, as I had not pointed out the various episodes he has of "catching" and commentating on Lena. Yet, nothing's come of it, so what are the specific requirments?
Do you just have to hold the drawing session in the café? Because I always go for the live music event.

Ed's route isn't very developed at the moment as far as I can tell. I was just referring to the live drawing event at the cafe and how corruptive that route is in general.

What stands out to me about Ed is the fact Lena can confront him I think three different times about his behavior yet it doesn't get through to him. It's a trait Ed seems to share with both Axel and Robert; two male characters with a corrupting influence on Lena. The parallels between Ed and Robert go even further in the event of a fight breaking out at the cafe. It's Ian who has the opportunity to deescalate the fight so the only real way for Lena to avoid it is to invest in her music.

 

[BlandChili]

Ed's route isn't very developed at the moment as far as I can tell. I was just referring to the live drawing event at the cafe and how corruptive that route is in general.

What stands out to me about Ed is the fact Lena can confront him I think three different times about his behavior yet it doesn't get through to him. It's a trait Ed seems to share with both Axel and Robert; two male characters with a corrupting influence on Lena. The parallels between Ed and Robert go even further in the event of a fight breaking out at the cafe. It's Ian who has the opportunity to deescalate the fight so the only real way for Lena to avoid it is to invest in her music.

Heh, my rationale on the "what to do at the Café" choice was just that I'd pick music and if that was a bust she could always lose the garments at a later date!
Seems trying to OTP Holly with Lena is really limiting the drama I get to experience.

 

[juniorforlife17313]

Kinda wish there was a catfight scene if Ian dates more than one girl. Makes me wonder if anything will happen when Ian tells Lena and Allison he's fucking other girls straight up just like how Ian fought Robert in chapter 7. Or that scene in the vinyl store between Lena and Cindy if Lena tells them that she isn't here to talk about her personal life. Felt that animosity and wanted to see something happen. Like Newtons third law of motion, for every reaction there's a reaction.

 

[unocrus]

Kinda wish there was a catfight scene if Ian dates more than one girl. Makes me wonder if anything will happen when Ian tells Lena and Allison he's fucking other girls straight up just like how Ian fought Robert in chapter 7. Or that scene in the vinyl store between Lena and Cindy if Lena tells them that she isn't here to talk about her personal life. Felt that animosity and wanted to see something happen. Like Newtons third law of motion, for every reaction there's a reaction.

Most of the encounters so far have been fairly casual between all parties involved. Both Allison and Lena have confronted Ian about sleeping with other women and while they did question his relationship goals they didn't actually seem too bothered by it. Ian confronting Lena after the fight with Robert at the cafe actually took me by surprise because Ian himself is guilty of the same in my playthrough.

One catfight I could see happening would be Lena and Mike's unknown girlfriend. It would be hilarious to me if out of nowhere Lena had one of Ian's fighting minigames. It would certainly give purpose to her athletics attribute. Aside from that if there was going to be a fight anywhere it would have been between Ivy and Louise at the club after Jeremy gets outed.

 

[juicycarmen]

Imma have everyone running through Lena. Gonna make her a slut and Ian a pimp