VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.2 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[Reaurt]

By the way, if you pick the tell that embarrassing story option at Ivy's party, you get some insight into Ivy and how Ivy and Lena became friends.

As for the above discussion, I don't think it's too hard to fix, although yeah I didn't realize initially how that conversation could be taken. Perhaps a fourth option could be included that functions mechanically similar in terms of game function as the third option (supporting Perry and showing Perry and Emma are open-minded sexually), but has an opening line or two establishing the humanity of trans people before defending Perry.

 

[redraw]

KEK. You must be trolling here, right?

There's some really bleak internal data coming out in those posts, but it all seems unfortunately earnest.

Though the reading of the criticism seems less earnest.

 

[redraw]

Like, much of the criticism that I've read here is not about Wade having very plausible stances on the subject, not asking that his dialogue be removed -- but instead that the player have more options to respond to Wade.

They seem to be asking for more expression, not less ..

 

[D2M3]

This is an imposed argument, however. Most of the criticism I have observed -- broadly, not just in this case -- is not that certain persons aren't treated exclusively reverentially, but that they are very frequently portrayed in a negative and still singular light.

For instance, as sexual fetishes rather than the multi-dimensional people you would like to witness.

Popular media features an overabundance of these negative depictions, not merely flawed, complicated depictions.

You should've read the rest of that post.

I made a clear distinction exactly how media got flooded by those negative representations.

Also, people are asking for the option to "choose" not to have the conversation, not to have more response options for Ian.

It is clearly not the ideal way to go.

And by definition, all opinions are technically impositions. That's what an argument is. It's an imposed plea to forward the conversation and exchange with the opposing side of it.

 

[BloodyMares]

No one blamed Eva for racism here (lol wut?). Also come on, this shit that Wade said about trans people is absolutely transphobic ("men with tits"? come on). It doesn't mean that Eva is herself transphobic, and no one in this thread has said that characters in this game can't say transphobic things. I would even argue that inclusion of this line is actually good because it shows that Wade is an asshole, so it is a form of a character development. The only thing that people complained was the lack of a choice to call Wade out on this shit. It is not a form of censorship. If a player wants to agree with Wade then they are free to. No one gives a fuck.

Are you sure? Because I got the vibes that lifegetsweird was doing exactly that, blaming Eva for what was coming out of Wade's mouth, and attributing his stupidity to Eva's malice. If what you say is indeed true, then all of this seems to be a huge misunderstanding.

 

[BlandChili]

Also, people are asking for the option to "choose" not to have the conversation, not to have more response options for Ian.

It is clearly not the ideal way to go.

That's a lie. Go back and read the discussion between me and BloodyMares where I make a direct suggestion for adding a fourth option to Ian.
I, along with a few others are just entertaining the idea that Ian could have more ways to respond.

 

[redraw]

You should've read the rest of that post.

I read your post, man, we need not do that.

I was responding explicitly to that argument.

As for people demanding dialogue be cut, I might have missed that. You know how forum discussions can flow. Thirty pages of black nail polish and then blammo.

But the arguments I'd read seemed pretty measured by comparison to the 'SJW/PC' counter-reactions.

 

[Cabot]

Like, much of the criticism that I've read here is not about Wade having very plausible stances on the subject, not asking that his dialogue be removed -- but instead that the player have more options to respond to Wade.

It's how it all started, tough:

I reeeally could have done without the extremely transphobic language :/ it came out of left field too.

 

[Leonardovisk]

Ok i finished chapter 7 and Lena still has no man (or Ivy) who truly deserve and worthy of her

I think EvaKiss is Lenaphobic

 

[redraw]

It's how it all started, tough:

Alright, but that's hardly a call for specific action and reads more like someone's personal reaction.

This forum is filled to the brim with people's demands for the inclusion and exclusion of personally-tailored content.

Nearly every game has a patch to modify them towards or away from certain content.

Not terribly threatening in general.

 

[Leonardovisk]

Bad jokes aside im very impressed with the quality of EvaKiss work.


Amazing!

 

[D2M3]

I read your post, man, we need not do that.

I was responding explicitly to that argument.

As for people demanding dialogue be cut, I might have missed that. You know how forum discussions can flow. Thirty pages of black nail polish and then blammo.

But the arguments I'd read seemed pretty measured by comparison to the 'SJW/PC' counter-reactions.

Let me be clear then, for all to see, once more.

1) Choosing NOT to have that conversation? No. Bad idea.
2) Adding more options for Ian's conversation options to respond to Wade? Sure thing. Stellar idea.
3) Media did not get flooded due to an excellent 3D depiction of a sexual deviant trans person, it got flooded due to Hitchcock's 2D representation of a crossdresser misinterpreted (intentonally misinterpreted by the puritannical american right for decades) as a trans person.
4) The most positive outcomes of trans people are not coming from places where they are flawless angels, it's coming from projects like Orange is the New Black or POSE, not to mention many other excellent new shows and movies from the last 5 years.
5) At its core, this is Eva's story. No one else's. She should not cut out a single thing she intended for to be in the game, unless she fully resolves it wasn't a good storytelling decision to do so. But out of fear of backlash? No, nothing should be cut out.

And finally 6) The worst thing you can do to trans people is to IGNORE them. Not having that conversation to begin with is ignoring them. Ignoring them is as bad as outright hate, because ignoring makes it easier to marginalize groups.

 

[BlandChili]

It's how it all started, tough:

I reeeally could have done without the extremely transphobic language :/ it came out of left field too.

My impression was that the emphasis from lifegetsweird on "extremely" was purposeful, that the issue wasn't necessarily that Wade's a transphobe or that he's able to voice it, but that the language he uses is very... striking.

 

[redraw]

And finally 6) The worst thing you can do to trans people is to IGNORE them. Not having that conversation to begin with is ignoring them. Ignoring them is as bad as outright hate, because ignoring makes it easier to marginalize groups.

To be sure, one can do much worse for marginalized groups than simply not discussing them. That option exists and it manifests frequently in our society, not merely in high-profile instances.

And, yes, I'm glad we are having this discussion. Glad we are having it now.

One of the issues I've been reacting against here is the sentiment that we shouldn't even be voicing this criticism.

 

[Reaurt]

Wade is secretly attracted to trans people, I'm calling it now.

 

[Brickman]

Wade is secretly attracted to trans people, I'm calling it now.

Wade should be sacrificed in the altar of post-modernism, all his holes ravaged by dicks of all sizes, genders and ethnicites, to wash away the sin of his rampant and deshumanizing transphobia. I hope Eva Kiss includes that or things will burn in the name of justice!

 

[Tallyhoe]

Man, now I really hope Eva'd just cut that part of content, be done with it and never mention or represent this ever again.

 

[aftvisajoke]

Wade should be sacrificed in the altar of post-modernism, all his holes ravaged by dicks of all sizes, genders and ethnicites, to wash away the sin of his rampant and deshumanizing transphobia. I hope Eva Kiss includes that or things will burn in the name of justice!

You my friend just invented the f95zone SJW manifesto. This shit is going to be printed, preached and licensed. Amen and awomen!

 

[lifegetsweird]

And finally 6) The worst thing you can do to trans people is to IGNORE them. Not having that conversation to begin with is ignoring them. Ignoring them is as bad as outright hate, because ignoring makes it easier to marginalize groups.

Do you even read yourself? Lol Maybe you're not the most qualified person to speak for trans people.

 

[redraw]

It doesn't have to be about being 'woke', nor about being performatively satisfying.