VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.2 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[Princess Groundhog]

Perry certainly seems to hope so.

Emma railing Perry would be a glorious scene!

 

[Padio]

Seems to me the conversation is foreshadowing some pegging action?

Yay , more femdom content for sub Ian : )

 

[manscout]

Not gonna quote the deleted post, but the scene did not come across as trans-positive.

I personally don't mind rough language. I don't mind flawed characters. I don't think a piece of fiction has any obligation to wave any kind of moral/political flag on any kind of subject (although I also don't hold it against them if they do). My criticism never had anything to do with any of those things, it had to do with the fact that in a game that pretty much prides itself on having an incredible range of choices, where you can build your character to be anywhere from a douchebag cucking both of his best friends to the sweetest guy ever dating his shy workfriend; and then you only give the protagonist responses that range from "negative" to "neutral" in this conversation and don't address the fact that it could come off as unfulfilling or as some kind of statement.

If you have character A basically say "Hey this entire group of people are freaks!" and the most you can say in response is "ey it don't matter because being a freak is okay!", that is NOT a positive response regarding said group, it is at most a neutral way of side-stepping the issue.

Wade crosses the line a bit and Perry is the only one that chastises him even a bit, and then Perry gets his integrity called into question because consuming porn with trans people in it doesn't necessarily prove he respects them. I do not understand why there is so much resistance against the idea of letting the player choose to make a quick comment also pointing out that Wade was crossing the line a bit.

 

[Xicor]

Finally lanXholly the build up and the way the scene was executed was awesome.
BloodyMares can you answer this the way lanXholly route is going I thing that the corruption aspect of Holly is either too slow or that it is not implemented yet

Spoiler

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Also will Lan ever get to have a tattoo?

 

[BloodyMares]

Wade crosses the line a bit and Perry is the only one that chastises him even a bit, and then Perry gets his integrity called into question because consuming porn with trans people in it doesn't necessarily prove he respects them. I do not understand why there is so much resistance against the idea of letting the player choose to make a quick comment also pointing out that Wade was crossing the line a bit.

Wade is a birthday boy. I think Ian, being his friend, didn't want to cause a scene, he already got Cindy doing that for him daily. Don't think it's so far-fetched to believe it's the case. Even Emma, being the most politically-invested person of the bunch, doesn't rip Wade a new one, and tries to participate in the most non-hostile way possible, because they're a group of friends that want to have fun after all. Ian is not a political activist, he doesn't know any trans-people personally, so the best response he can come up with is to try and tell Wade not to kink-shame Perry. Demanding another choice would be asking the level of awareness that Ian simply doesn't have.

 

[redraw]

Wade is a birthday boy. I think Ian, being his friend, didn't want to cause a scene, he already got Cindy doing that for him daily. Don't think it's so far-fetched to believe it's the case. Even Emma, being the most politically-invested person of the bunch, doesn't rip Wade a new one, and tries to participate in the most non-hostile way possible, because they're a group of friends that want to have fun after all. Ian is not a political activist, he doesn't know any trans-people personally, so the best response he can come up with is to try and tell Wade not to kink-shame Perry. Demanding another choice would be asking the level of awareness that Ian simply doesn't have.

I do like this as a relatively reasoned response, though it is going to be a difficult one to hold given

Spoiler: Ahem

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[BloodyMares]

Finally lanXholly the build up and the way the scene was executed was awesome.
BloodyMares can you answer this the way lanXholly route is going I thing that the corruption aspect of Holly is either too slow or that it is not implemented yet

Spoiler

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Also will Lan ever get to have a tattoo?

1) So far, the only hint to Holly's corruption is from Ivy, since she wants to make her more confident and easygoing. You could also say that her talking to the bouncer or Billy might foreshadow something, but it might also be just harmless interaction.
2) She might have a tattoo in the next update.

 

[Avaron1974]

So, my views on this have done a complete 180.

Last time I went through I was skipping Ian's story to get to Lena's and get her and Louise together.

Now I really can't stand Lena's story and 3 things have made me enjoy Ian's.

The thing with Lena and Louise is just so shallow and empty it's a completely pointless pairing. I'll explain. In GGGB all the lesbian romance options were fantastic. From the casual experimenting with her best friend to their falling in love, watching Ash and Jess get closer and Jess with her fantastic character growth. Even the trans romance and her character growth was fantastic to watch. All 3 were great.

There isn't a single good lesbian romance here. I don't see Ivy going anywhere, it just doesn't fit. Holly is so forced on Lena's path if you try and look at it as more than friends and after this update it's completely shit on Louise.

At one point Louise asks Lena if she shouldn't be more caring towards her after what has happened between them for Lena to just say "for what, it's just a thing that happened" and then think one morning that it's happened a bit too much. Just shit on the route completely and made it feel empty.

I also noted we have Alison with ex trouble, Lena wit ex trouble and Cherry having issues with someone she likes ... and soon to be Cindy with ex trouble. Anyone else think the ideas are running thin on what to do with characters here, it sure feels like it.

From really enjoying Lena's side to now really not liking it at all to going back and trying different things on Ian's path and finding there are 3 things that make it great.

I did start with Cherry but the whole "this guy I like where nothing ever happened turned back up and now my heads a mess" made me dismiss her completely.

Alison and her whole "I like you but I won't tell you that I like you and then i'm going to fuck your friend while still hinting I want to date you and constantly bringing up my ex .... please love me" just no.

Question to the guys, are women really like that?

I know I should know, I also date women, but lesbians tend to be quite straight forward. There are usually very few of us in one place so we need to be up front about what we want or we get nowhere. Just curious if straight women are that backwards.

As for the saving graces .... Holly, Cindy and Minerva.

Holly on Lena's route is a terrible option .... Holly on Ian's route is god tier. Cindy and Ian have had chemistry since the start and banging the bitchy boss is hella fun.

It almost feels like Lena is written by someone else completely. All of Ash's g/g stuff in GGGB was awesome .... here it's so shallow and emotionless it makes the sex scenes feel forced and didn't enjoy them. When the lesbian is saying she doesn't want to see the lesbian sex scenes you know something is wrong.

To go from one minute really liking Lena and not wanting to read Ian's half to really disliking everything about Lena and enjoying Ian's route .... it's weird. There isn't a single thing on Lena's route I enjoy while Ian has not only great stuff going on with his friends but with some of the girls.

It's weird that a female dev that did an awesome game with a fantastic female lead has come back with such a shallow female character. Can't explain that.

 

[Reaurt]

Seems to me the conversation is foreshadowing some pegging action?

Do you still get this scene if Emma gives you a BJ before the party? If so, I can see a FMM scene with Ian on Emma on Perry.

 

[BloodyMares]

I do like this as a relatively reasoned response, though it is going to be a difficult one to hold given Ian's option to fuck the birthday boy's girlfriend out back shortly afterwards.

Have you seen Cindy's "come fuck me" eyes? It requires a lot of willpower to resist her charms...

 

[redraw]

Shit, I probably should have spoilered mine, sorry. I hope I can retroact that.

But, yeah ...

 

[BlandChili]

Wade is a birthday boy. I think Ian, being his friend, didn't want to cause a scene, he already got Cindy doing that for him daily. Don't think it's so far-fetched to believe it's the case. Even Emma, being the most politically-invested person of the bunch, doesn't rip Wade a new one, and tries to participate in the most non-hostile way possible, because they're a group of friends that want to have fun after all. Ian is not a political activist, he doesn't know any trans-people personally, so the best response he can come up with is to try and tell Wade not to kink-shame Perry. Demanding another choice would be asking the level of awareness that Ian simply doesn't have.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a certain kind of behaviour from Ian, your argumentation isn't invalid, but why is it so hard to implement the requested element in this one specific scene?

Ian can ignore the birthday party altogether and go with Holly, is that really a choice the same person that's so rigidly concious about the events taking place at said birthday party would even make?

Ian also has no experience throatfucking others to our knowledge, right? Yet, we get to make that decision with high enough lust regardless, because lustful Ian is sexually inventive, so much that he can even ignore Alisons consent, because Ian is the player character and the subject of the scene is Alison + how to fuck.

Why not make the "pro-trans" response knowledge-locked similarly even? Surely a smart Ian would know of transgender people enough that the player could reasonably decide he wants to defend them.

 

[Reaurt]

Question to the guys, are women really like that?

I know I should know, I also date women, but lesbians tend to be quite straight forward. There are usually very few of us in one place so we need to be up front about what we want or we get nowhere. Just curious if straight women are that backwards.

Yes. Not all, but enough that it can be a believable stereotype.

 

[Perv_Old_Robot]

Back to Wade, how much of a cuck he can be?

I really hope that Cindy and Ian come clean to Wade, and tell him what happened on the alley . Ian is a good guy, he can't keep a secret from his friend Wade. AND I hope Wade understand what a shitty boyfriend he was and continues to be Cindy's boyfriend. So... he could ask Cindy to go on having sex with Ian and ask to watch the next time, so he could learn how to be a better boyfriend and lover ... if Cindy ever allow him to have sex with her again. Until then, he could watch Ian, Jeremy, Axel, Mike, Stan, Seymour, Robert , anyone . Anyone but Perry! Perry needs to be a cuck too. I hope Emma gets to be Perry's girlfriend and cucks him also with the same lovers that her friend Cindy is bringing home.

Do you think our DEV Goddess will hear us ?

 

[redraw]

Alison and her whole "I like you but I won't tell you that I like you and then i'm going to fuck your friend while still hinting I want to date you and constantly bringing up my ex .... please love me" just no.

Question to the guys, are women really like that?

I have male friends who have done that to women, so ..

It's not at all implausible, depending on the context.

Alison's route felt pretty understandable to me. Ian makes the least bit of effort with her and she is all over him. Jeremy only seems to get in there because he puts in the work and even then only when Ian doesn't take the initiative.

 

[BloodyMares]

Why not make the "pro-trans" response knowledge-locked similarly even? Surely a smart Ian would know of transgender people enough that the player could reasonably decide he wants to defend them.

Now that I think about it, a Wits-related response educating Wade would make sense, I give you that one. Now I remember there were instances where smartass Ian with high Wits could start a rant, in the very prologue even, so yeah, it might be in character. But considering that Eva didn't think of it, and some people gladly attribute the characters' writing to Eva's projection of her values, let's do a reverse, and attribute Eva's lack of option as part of Ian's character and assume that at that moment it just didn't occur to him to act this way.

 

[BlandChili]

Now that I think about it, a Wits-related response educating Wade would make sense, I give you that one. Now I remember there were instances where smartass Ian with high Wits could start a rant, in the very prologue even, so yeah, it might be in character. But considering that Eva didn't think of it, and some people gladly attribute the characters' writing to Eva's projection of her values, let's do a reverse, and attribute Eva's lack of option as part of Ian's character and assume that at that moment it just didn't occur to him to act this way.

Heh, is that "end of discussion" response then?

 

[redraw]

Much more importantly than getting this one instance pitch-perfect, I think, would be absorbing the perspective and moving forward with that deeper knowledge.

I think we are all fans here.

Thanks again for engaging on it.

 

[D2M3]

Alison and her whole "I like you but I won't tell you that I like you and then i'm going to fuck your friend while still hinting I want to date you and constantly bringing up my ex .... please love me" just no.

Question to the guys, are women really like that?

I personally have known at least 2 women of this very similar attitude in my life. Both were my friends, and both took a long time to expose their insecurity ridden psyches hidden under an easygoing, super open attitudes with sex.

This is not one of those stereotypes that appeared once in fiction and then got popular, this is a woman stereotype that exists widely in real world, hence it is a stereotype.

Especially the "I'm gonna fuck your friend while still hinting that I want to date you" part. I'd wager that we all know at least a few women like that during our college years, but don't know they are that kind of person.

Conversely, men do this exact thing as well. It's not a gender locked stereotype.

 

[BloodyMares]

Heh, is that "end of discussion" response then?

This discussion lasted for quite some time, and honestly, I feel very exhausted after it. So I think it's about time some kind of consensus was achieved.