VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.6] [Eva Kiss]

[Geigi]

In this game? Sure. Ian can easily interact with every girl and not hit on them, he has various scenes with Lena and Holly just talking about art, career and life. Or hanging out with Emma along Perry and Wade, drinking, playing pool and chatting. Or helping Cindy and Wade in an entirely friendly way (snide remarks incoming). Consequently, they don't flirt with him as soon as they know he isn't interested, with some exceptions like Alison or Gillian.

With Lena, most guys are noticable more forward and only interested in sex, that leaves Ian and his gang (Perry, Wade) and I suppose she can remain friends with Stan, even if she has to turn him down (supposedly he moves on...).

So your fears mostly align with Lena, who barely can have a male friend without drama, but don't with Ian, who can treat every girl just as a friend.

Yeah, Ian's part is so cozy and wholesome.

 

[ffive]

Yeah, you can stop her from doing all that stuff. But it's clear she's already done it anyway. Ivy and Lena have had lesbian sex in the past, they've done drugs together and they've slept around together. You can try to make her into a different person, but you can can't unmake the past, when she's been clearly very different, under Ivy's influence.

Well, no. The point is that with your choices and prioritizing different attributes you literally define Lena's past. Lena has not slept around together with Ivy if she's Wits based. Heck, she didn't even really sleep around when she's Charisma based, as she doesn't do one-night stands in this scenario, either. Similarly, iirc there's no indication that Lena who refuses to take drugs from Ivy has done it before; much like the choice whether Lena smokes this seems to be applied to Lena's background retro-actively.

Also, Lena had sex with Ivy exactly once, when Ivy was upset/heartbroken over some guy. I think your idea of Ivy corrupting Lena into a huge slut is way off base in most cases (short of player choosing to play very promiscuous Lena themselves) and frankly, i have no clue why you'd cling so much to this idea, seemingly discarding any possibility this is not universal scenario.

 

[Geigi]

Well, no. The point is that with your choices and prioritizing different attributes you literally define Lena's past. Lena has not slept around together with Ivy if she's Wits based. Heck, she didn't even really sleep around when she's Charisma based, as she doesn't do one-night stands in this scenario, either.

Also, Lena had sex with Ivy exactly once, when Ivy was upset/heartbroken over some guy. I think your idea of Ivy corrupting Lena into a huge slut is way off base in most cases (short of player choosing to play very promiscuous Lena themselves) and frankly, i have no clue why you'd cling so much to this idea, seemingly discarding any possibility this is not universal scenario.

It seems that Zara thinks that the Lena she speaks of is a canon whether or not you choose to play her like.

 

[Blurpee69]

Everyone always talks about Lena in terms of Wits, Charisma, or Lust. But what about Athletics gods dammit?! It's an attribute too!

 

[varpep]

In this game? Sure. Ian can easily interact with every girl and not hit on them, he has various scenes with Lena and Holly just talking about art, career and life. Or hanging out with Emma along Perry and Wade, drinking, playing pool and chatting. Or helping Cindy and Wade in an entirely friendly way (snide remarks incoming). Consequently, they don't flirt with him as soon as they know he isn't interested, with some exceptions like Alison or Gillian.

With Lena, most guys are noticable more forward and only interested in sex, that leaves Ian and his gang (Perry, Wade) and I suppose she can remain friends with Stan, even if she has to turn him down (supposedly he moves on...).

So your fears mostly align with Lena, who barely can have a male friend without drama, but don't with Ian, who can treat every girl just as a friend.

All you said is true except when it comes to Ian and Lena. If Lena and Ian are friends, Ian still has a crush on Lena. Sure he respects her and doesn't hit on her. But he gets jealous when he learns Lena had sex with Robert and can even masturbate to Lena. This only happens with Lena. Ian can be completely platonic with every other girl including Cindy. I guess Ian is just hard coded to have feelings for Lena at least at the beginning.

 

[varpep]

Everyone always talks about Lena in terms of Wits, Charisma, or Lust. But what about Athletics gods dammit?! It's an attribute too!

I personally wouldn't mind muscle mommy Lena. Maybe she could be a wrestler or a gym instructor.

 

[Blurpee69]

I personally wouldn't mind muscle mommy Lena. Maybe she could be a wrestler or a gym instructor.

Muscle mommies Lena and Emma reporting for duty.

But seriously, I am slightly disappointed with how little athletics plays into Lena's character. It allows her to do a pole dancing move, once or twice in practice, and to punch Rosa. Neither of which are particularly compelling uses of athletics skill at the moment.

Comments on Lena's appearance don't really change, like they do for Ian, based on her level. So far, she cannot use athletics to earn Posh / bitchy points or money like Ian can with Chad points from various skill checks or money from the tournament. If she's Seymour's muse she'll automatically go to the gym, but she doesn't even make a comment if she already has a high athletics.

 

[wivers]

My issue with EK's games is that we don't get (nor get to play) a caring male dom to pair with the female LIs, nor a proactive sub to play with Ian. So we only get kinky sex if we play as assholes or as sluts going after assholes (or if we play as cuck Ian, but then we only have Lena to play around as such).

There is much less opportunities for non-vanilla scenes because of this. (and also no after care, which is (among ) the best part(s) of such plays.)

 

[BlandChili]

I think anyone expecting great depravity from this game needs to adjust their expectations in general. From the start, ORS has been more story led and vanilla than GGGB.

I don't know about expecting, I think I'm more hoping for something new. Given Eva's kink poll I don't think it's entirely unlikely that something unexpected will happen, but like I said I am presuming that it will more than likely not go as far as it could.

 

[ffive]

My issue with EK's games is that we don't get (nor get to play) a caring male dom to pair with the female LIs

There're some options for Ian which move him towards dominant attitude with his partners, as opposed to the cuck route. I think this will be developed further and you can pair them with Ian's default caring attitude, so it should provide what you're after..?

 

[SerHawkes]

My issue with EK's games is that we don't get (nor get to play) a caring male dom to pair with the female LIs

That likely because EK listens more to the vocal elements of the kinkdom and panders to the degeneracy. The woman's "ideal" of being used, railed, and then left to clean up the mess. Most of her fans want that, specially since most came from GGGB which had that notion.

The main problem is though is that EK listens more to these people rather than actual do things on her own. Before the first rework ever happened, the story itself could very well have had some measure of uniqueness to it. Maybe we could have had Ian being a dom (after being built up a bit of course) that is caring with the female interests. However, while there is some hinting that it's a maybe overall, I don't put much faith in it actually happening, as we will very likely see more and more of the opposite.

 

[Geigi]

That likely because EK listens more to the vocal elements of the kinkdom and panders to the degeneracy. The woman's "ideal" of being used, railed, and then left to clean up the mess. Most of her fans want that, specially since most came from GGGB which had that notion.

The main problem is though is that EK listens more to these people rather than actual do things on her own. Before the first rework ever happened, the story itself could very well have had some measure of uniqueness to it. Maybe we could have had Ian being a dom (after being built up a bit of course) that is caring with the female interests. However, while there is some hinting that it's a maybe overall, I don't put much faith in it actually happening, as we will very likely see more and more of the opposite.

The problem with what I see in porn games is BDSM. There's maybe 5 games that it does right, meaning that most male characters doesn't even domming female characters per their agreement, they are just straight up using them without any consent about kinks. Sure, no one can accurately write BDSM unless if you aren in that community, but this game is supposed to be realistic so at least does have some semblance I think. The worst example I saw is a male character choking female character with all his force and she was fine ofc, porn logic/it's not real and it just broke the immersion. I was cringing hard.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Well, no. The point is that with your choices and prioritizing different attributes you literally define Lena's past. Lena has not slept around together with Ivy if she's Wits based. Heck, she didn't even really sleep around when she's Charisma based, as she doesn't do one-night stands in this scenario, either. Similarly, iirc there's no indication that Lena who refuses to take drugs from Ivy has done it before; much like the choice whether Lena smokes this seems to be applied to Lena's background retro-actively.

Also, Lena had sex with Ivy exactly once, when Ivy was upset/heartbroken over some guy. I think your idea of Ivy corrupting Lena into a huge slut is way off base in most cases (short of player choosing to play very promiscuous Lena themselves) and frankly, i have no clue why you'd cling so much to this idea, seemingly discarding any possibility this is not universal scenario.

What sense does that actually make though? Why should choices you make half way through a game, to make Ian or Lena smarter or more charismatic, determine something that happened years ago? There's no logic to that whatsoever. It might very well be the case, but that doesn't make it right. Why didn't the Dev give us these choices at the start of the game, so we could set the parameters then, of what kind of background we wanted Ian and Lena to be coming from? Then logically, players would be building on that, instead of the situation we've got, where it's determined arbitrarily by how many Wits or Charisma points you amass. Those points should be all about changes the player wants to make in the game, and the past should be determined at the start, and not after the event.

So you have the unfathomable situation where a certain number of attribute points, ushers in a certain set of past circumstances, but one point less and it's all different, even though you were always going to make the same decision to get that additional point.

It would have been so much easier, if both the MCs started from a common position, in all instances (somewhere in the middle range of possibilities). I would have been perfectly happy with that set-up. But instead the Dev is trying to please everybody, and it just doesn't work very well, because we get all these different pasts, determined by an entirely arbitrary set of circumstances, all happening in the present.

 

[wivers]

Sure, no one can accurately write BDSM unless if you are in that community

Well I disagree with that sentiment. It really isn't that hard to look up the basic tenant of consensual BDSM nowadays, and that's really all it would take to start writing character in -- or interested in -- such a relationship.

In ORS in particular, given Lena's past relationship with Axel (Where she obviously loved the dom-sub / power exchange dynamic), it would have been easy to write her exploring such a relationship with "Nice" Ian, simply by opening up about her interests and then the couple trying things out. (Even Alison and Holly's characters seem like they would have been good fit, if EK had wanted to explore "kinkier" yet consensual routes through them.)

I get that fiction is useful to explore non-consent fantasies safely; but all the countless readers of slop like 50 shades of Grey -- or the whole romantasy genre I keep hearing about lately -- aren't really fantasizing about abusers, but rather consensual kinky sex with their honorable, trustworthy dream guy. Seemsto me like there is money in some consensual BDSM smut.

 

[Geigi]

Well I disagree with that sentiment. It really isn't that hard to look up the basic tenant of consensual BDSM nowadays, and that's really all it would take to start writing character in -- or interested in -- such a relationship.

In ORS in particular, given Lena's past relationship with Axel (Where she obviously loved the dom-sub / power exchange dynamic), it would have been easy to write her exploring such a relationship with "Nice" Ian, simply by opening up about her interests and then the couple trying things out. (Even Alison and Holly's characters seem like they would have been good fit, if EK had wanted to explore "kinkier" yet consensual routes through them.)

I get that fiction is useful to explore non-consent fantasies safely; but all the countless readers of slop like 50 shades of Grey -- or the whole romantasy genre I keep hearing about lately -- aren't really fantasizing about abusers, but rather consensual kinky sex with their honorable, trustworthy dream guy. Seemsto me like there is money in some consensual BDSM smut.

OK, fair enough, a little research is always recommended. Yes, there's a whole catalogue of kinky but consensual BDSM books for women but this isn't what the majority of straight male players who are Eva's main patrons want to see. If Patreon didn't had it's rules on taboo and hardcore content, games would be have such content which borderline on what there's on Dark Web, like snuff.

 

[prpa]

OK, fair enough, a little research is always recommended. Yes, there's a whole catalogue of kinky but consensual BDSM books for women but this isn't what the majority of straight male players who are Eva's main patrons want to see. If Patreon didn't had it's rules on taboo and hardcore content, games would be have such content which borderline on what there's on Dark Web, like snuff.

I agree with you to some extent, but a few years ago, for a short time, I fell deep into the world of fanfiction (until I realized how badly written the vast majority of it is). And let me tell you, about 99% of fanfiction writers and probably the big majority of readers are women, and I’ve seen some truly disturbing content there. Honestly, some of it was far more intense and messed up than anything I ever came across on F95Zone. So please don’t assume that only men are capable of writing and reading that kind of material. Women can be just as extreme.

 

[Geigi]

I agree with you to some extent, but a few years ago, I fell deep into the world of fanfiction. And let me tell you, about 99% of fanfiction writers and probably the big majority of readers are women, and I’ve seen some truly disturbing content there. Honestly, some of it was far more intense and messed up than anything I ever came across on F95Zone. So please don’t assume that only men are capable of writing that kind of material. Women can be just as extreme, if not more so.

They write underaged ero guro?

 

[prpa]

They write underaged ero guro?

Go on AO3, and see for yourself.

 

[Geigi]

I personally wouldn't mind muscle mommy Lena. Maybe she could be a wrestler or a gym instructor.

Gym sex, gym sex!

There're some options for Ian which move him towards dominant attitude with his partners, as opposed to the cuck route. I think this will be developed further and you can pair them with Ian's default caring attitude, so it should provide what you're after..?

Ohhh, I would like to see more various versions of Dom Ian. Teasing and playful dominant, gentle and caring dominant, strict and punishing dominant you know or some roleplay to make it more interesting.

 

[ffive]

What sense does that actually make though? Why should choices you make half way through a game, to make Ian or Lena smarter or more charismatic, determine something that happened years ago? There's no logic to that whatsoever.

The choices you make shape character's personality, and the game uses it to build the character's past which matches it, to ensure coherent experience. It's very simple.

In fact, you are perfectly able to understand this concept, when it's executed in a slightly different manner:

It might very well be the case, but that doesn't make it right. Why didn't the Dev give us these choices at the start of the game, so we could set the parameters then, of what kind of background we wanted Ian and Lena to be coming from?

Having these choices at the start of the game wouldn't do anything to alleviate your complaint -- as you would be defining something "that already happened in the past", years after it already "happened". Doing it on the day the game starts or having the game determine this a bit later as a result of decisions made over a few in-game weeks, there's zero difference here in terms of functionality and/or logic. The only difference is you are willing to suspend your disbelief for one approach, but balk at the other.

It would have been so much easier, if both the MCs started from a common position, in all instances (somewhere in the middle range of possibilities). I would have been perfectly happy with that set-up.

It's unfortunate the game does something you aren't perfectly happy with, but i don't think it makes the game's approach illogical or any worse than your suggestion. I quite enjoy being able to have three different versions of the character instead of all of them starting the same, utter average. The way it's implemented is uncommon, but it's also interesting how the game uses player's actual decisions and character they've built organically, instead of the usual "pick your background when you have zero idea about characters, settings, plot or how you're going to play the game".