VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.14.1.4 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[IlikebeingaDIK]

funny thing, some people can immerse themselves with relatable characters, others like me can immerse themselves with believable characters.
a blank slate who can be anything isn't believable to me. that's the problem i have.

Here's the thing: the 'blank slate' is a STARTING POINT. It's a character that is generic enough you can effectively push toward most directions and see them go somewhere without thinking "oh ok, that's weird I can do that". you build said character into the path you want to within reason

That's why I was amused when you said you'd feel insulted if you were to relate to a blank slate.

therefore a physical representation of axel would of course work very well as MC

Would it? Why isn't it the standard, then? I can tell you there are games where the MC IS a born Chad, I've already talked about Jake from Race of Life since it lives up to a 'physical ideal' so well. But the story is built around that very specific setup and has very little wiggle. Just like there would be very little wiggle playing with Axel as the MC unless you want to lose the 'believable' factor you cherish so much. You end up reading a story instead of playing a game. Maybe the story is great, I'm not arguing that, but it sure as shit ain't no game.

because if you don't like "ugly bastard" as theme

What if you don't like "nazi lab experiment" as theme?

, you wouldn't want the character with the most screen time to be a flabby limp dick guy.

Ultimately, a guy so hot he gets pussy by clapping hands and a guy so ugly he'd have to win the lottery to bag a girl are both extremes. Both are believable and both can be 'hot' if you cater to the appropriate niche. That's not the point of contention. The point is that, how do you expect to make a decision-based game where said characters are so biased toward those traits that make them either extremely hot or extremely ugly?

 

[DaLuke2]

I think the drugs may not be a factor in this scenario, but if Lena hasn't cheated yet (and she's also need to opt to keep cheating) then Ian needs to be a cuck by the looks of it, because you need to enter this branch:

                                                    elif lena_cheating == 2 or ian_cuck > 1:

the alternative is Lena and Ian in open relationship, but then it's not really cheating.

Thank you. Interesting. So it means you can have a vanilla Lena on the cuck path who has not cheated yet and who will do so with Jeremy for the first time. Did not see that one coming, will try it for fun (?) sakes.

 

[mehGusta]

You said Axel wasn't protagonist material. I said yes he could be

am i that bad at expressing myself? you also did quote the part where i said why axel wouldn't work
"you always empathize with protagonists." "that's not axel then, that's a new character."
dexter is not an antagonist and MCs in games are never the antagonists. that's not how that works!

 

[HugoLivremore]

am i that bad at expressing myself? you also did quote the part where i said why axel wouldn't work View attachment 5327217
"you always empathize with protagonists." "that's not axel then, that's a new character."
dexter is not an antagonist and MCs in games are never the antagonists. that's not how that works!

well instead of lena and ivy been ian love interests or maybe gillan
Eve and Sarah from Lost Chapters with selene been there
or maybe Buffy and Willow from Buffy with Faith been there

 

[mehGusta]

Here's the thing: the 'blank slate' is a STARTING POINT. It's a character that is generic enough you can effectively push toward most directions and see them go somewhere without thinking "oh ok, that's weird I can do that". you build said character into the path you want to within reason

That's why I was amused when you said you'd feel insulted if you were to relate to a blank slate.

i think you don't understand me, because you don't immerse yourself into the story like i do. probably the same can be said about me for the same reasons.

but i guess i have to thank you for making me realize that i seem to have a view on what defines a blank slate of a character, that it's so vastly different from some views, that they think a story with a blank slate could be well written. that's just not possible. either your or my definition is wrong and we will never agree on that.

Would it? Why isn't it the standard, then? I can tell you there are games where the MC IS a born Chad, I've already talked about Jake from Race of Life since it lives up to a 'physical ideal' so well. But the story is built around that very specific setup and has very little wiggle. Just like there would be very little wiggle playing with Axel as the MC unless you want to lose the 'believable' factor you cherish so much.

what's more boring than the same story over and over again. are we seriously saying things like a fast and furious 11 is a good idea? you asked if a MC "look as conventionally hot as physically possible" would be the standard for great MCs. i just said that it definitely works out. and there is no threat to "my" believable factor because of that. if you think that, you are lacking in imagination.

What if you don't like "nazi lab experiment" as theme?

uhh... yeah? i don't know what you want from me here! again framing it as if we are talking about 1 single standard. are we narrowing down to what the "perfect" MC has to look like? i thought the initial question was why someone would like to play as axel.

...You end up reading a story instead of playing a game. Maybe the story is great, I'm not arguing that, but it sure as shit ain't no game...

Ultimately, a guy so hot he gets pussy by clapping hands and a guy so ugly he'd have to win the lottery to bag a girl are both extremes. Both are believable and both can be 'hot' if you cater to the appropriate niche. That's not the point of contention. The point is that, how do you expect to make a decision-based game where said characters are so biased toward those traits that make them either extremely hot or extremely ugly?

the fact that neither ian nor lena are blank slates, already proves that stories can be led by defined characters without loosing versatility. that every game with choices, just like ORS, follows a story, should tell you that you can't have choices in a vacuum.
as i said, you have to know what you are actually trying to tell. do you seriously think that a physically ideal person can have no struggles, no failures? don't you think lena is already a "physical ideal"? if not what do you consider in a woman the physical ideal and can it objectively be called that?

i feel like i have to remind you that we are talking about porn games here. there are tons of games out there where the "a guy so hot he gets pussy by clapping hands" exists.

 

[Yngling]

I try to get my wits vanilla Lena to be as realistic as possible, and I think she'd fall for it.

I suppose the wits must still be on the lower end of the spectrum in your playthrough...
A smart woman would see Axel for who he is.
Then again, a truly smart vanilla woman would also not get into nude modelling.

An as dolfe67 said, we must remember Lena was in a relationship with Axel before.
At the beginning of the game, she knows very well who Axel is, what he did to her and I think she has very little reason to assume he has changed his way for the better.

 

[IlikebeingaDIK]

i think you don't understand me, because you don't immerse yourself into the story like i do. probably the same can be said about me for the same reasons.

I think we're almost talking with a language barrier and it's kinda annoying.

So let's just agree to whatever point we reached and call it a day.

 

[DaLuke2]

I suppose the wits must still be on the lower end of the spectrum in your playthrough...
A smart woman would see Axel for who he is.
Then again, a truly smart vanilla woman would also not get into nude modelling.

An as dolfe67 said, we must remember Lena was in a relationship with Axel before.
At the beginning of the game, she knows very well who Axel is, what he did to her and I think she has very little reason to assume he has changed his way for the better.

I can't deny your point, fact is you get a Wits point if you decide against calling him, and then if you refuse to meet him.

In my main playthrough Lena is on max wits and does not even call Axel. The max Wits path leads to the throuple, after banging Jeremy (strangely enough the very max Wits path involves both the Jeremy and Throuple paths, I have written about this before. You lose Wits points if you don't bang Jeremy before the throuple).

I prefer to play a slightly different version though, the romance path with Ian, with the threesome with Louise and potential ones with Emma and Ivy, maybe also Eli and Suzana, but with the MFM kink with Anthony, Mike, John and Jeremy. Not the harem fans' favorite, but I do me.

Still, I believe Axel is a bit more complicated than a just cheap bastard. The man's got issues, but qualities too.

 

[robs1234]

View attachment 5327723

Haha Ian's smol peepee. No wonder Alison prefers Jeremy!

there is no way she like this more

 

[Ahx]

Perry's stutter is so fucking annoying! I have to click 2-3 times to get a fucking sentence going. Fuck!

 

[Edge Sangral]

I am confused. I jumped into chapter 14 from v13.3.6 and it was one single scene at a car and then "End of chapter 14" appeared? Is that normal? Was something messed up for me? I am confused.

I reloaded an earlier save where I went to the hotel to celebrate Minervas Birthday and then Chapter 13 was over and Chapter 14 was once again just once single scene with Lena at the car and then chapter over.

Can someone explain?

 

[robs1234]

I am confused. I jumped into chapter 14 from v13.3.6 and it was one single scene at a car and then "End of chapter 14" appeared? Is that normal? Was something messed up for me? I am confused.

I reloaded an earlier save where I went to the hotel to celebrate Minervas Birthday and then Chapter 13 was over and Chapter 14 was once again just once single scene with Lena at the car and then chapter over.

Can someone explain?

well, that is not the last version, 13.3.6 i mean, the latest version is 14.1.1

 

[Akabakka]

Still, I believe Axel is a bit more complicated than a just cheap bastard. The man's got issues, but qualities too.

I don't see it. The rare moments he "softens" around any of the characters, I don't perceive as "aww, he's not so bad," but interpret them instead as "well, if he didn't have those moments, he'd just be a psycho." I have yet to see any redeemable personality traits... in my opinion, he's not like Jack from GGGB with a tough exterior who is closed off but could still turn into a decent person. His best defense so far is that Lena, having clearly had experiences with him, should know better and is the one who can decide to pull him back in.

 

[dolfe67]

I am confused. I jumped into chapter 14 from v13.3.6 and it was one single scene at a car and then "End of chapter 14" appeared? Is that normal? Was something messed up for me? I am confused.

I reloaded an earlier save where I went to the hotel to celebrate Minervas Birthday and then Chapter 13 was over and Chapter 14 was once again just once single scene with Lena at the car and then chapter over.

Can someone explain?

You must play with an outdated mod

 

[whamma]

Or, if Ian and Jeremy are friendly, this is an option if Lena talked with Ian about MMF threesome and teased about this possibility in texting with Ian earlier, which requires some Charisma and Lust:

Does cheating on Ian early on when she gave him head and when they messed around at the club make this situation possible still or no?

 

[Saerwen]

If relating to a blank slate is insulting to you, you ain't got your priorities straight.

Jokes aside, I do feel yall are missing the point of blank slate characters. Blank slates allow great variability in gameplay since most case scenarios can be reasonably expected without too much mental gymnastics. That's about it.

Blank slates are just prisms, you get to pick the specific color that comes out of it.



Why would it matter to you to play a loser or not? After all, you said yourself you don't relate nor self-insert as MCs. A story recounted from the side of the loser can be interesting. Loser != boring, it just means you ain't won.



Again, why would it matter to you if Axel is 'too set in his psycho-boyfriend theme'? The story would be just told from his POV. It certainly wouldn't be boring, would it? If you don't need to relate to a MC to play the game you should, in theory, enjoy playing as Axel in all of his psycho-boyfriend glory.



Again, why would it matter to have Axel as MC? You already get scenes with him as an NPC, if you don't relate nor self-insert then you could just have more scenes in-game with NPC Axel and it'd be just as enjoyable wouldn't it?



You could make an MC out your school janitor if that's the standard you set. Case in point, why ain't nobody made no game about your school janitor yet?

School janitor who knows all the dirty secrets of school faculty and the theme is non sexual blackmail? I'm in!

 

[DaLuke2]

Does cheating on Ian early on when she gave him head and when they messed around at the club make this situation possible still or no?

I respond under the control of our Master ORSologist, but it seems unrelated to me.

Until this very last update, Lena can NOT cheat on Ian with Jeremy. The very last scene of the very last update is the very first time you can. And for this, after having played according to our scientist's guidelines, I think I really know the minimal conditions now:

- You NEED to be on the cuck path. Having already cheated on Ian is not enough.

- Ian needs to be on the war path with Jeremy, ergo: Lena must have cheated on Ian at least once, because the only way you are on the war path is because Jeremy tries to warn Ian about Lena cheating, and Ian gets super upset, twice.

- Ivy's party blowjob is no longer relevant. Actually, you now can have refused to blow him, and still suggest him for the threesome, not earlier but on this update.

- If Lena and Jeremy messed around at the club, that implies Lena has woken him up, meaning she has declined a relationship with Ian, thus it is not cheating.

Even less relevant because:

- Lena can have woken Jeremy up, have the threesome with him and Louise, fooled around with him at the club, and yet, if she decides at her parents' house she wants to commit to Ian, then she stops seeing Jeremy, can still suggest him for the threesome, and yet she will at best fool around with him on the last scene without going all the way, and only if Ian has allowed it.

- One last interesting point, worth insisting upon: if faithful Lena chooses to persuade alpha Ian to fool around without him, even if you are not at all on the cuck path, you get the cuck emoji for the first time. This implies that EK is going to give a new "chance" to your faithful Lena and alpha Ian to get into the cuck path. I did not see that one coming.

 

[Yoheijin]

Dudes, I'm constantly faced with the situation that Ian doesn't have enough cuckold point for a certain choice, where to get them? I've done everything, but still, there aren't enough of them in every playthrough, and Ian cuckold is probably the only branch I haven't been able to master.

Is cuck path that hard? I tought that path is the most easy path, just being a lazy fuck as perry, is not that easy?

 

[DaLuke2]

Is cuck path that hard? I tought that path is the most easy path, just being a lazy fuck as perry, is not that easy?

Easy, but not that easy. I have several saves where Ian does not get over Gillian, has the nightmares, and still don't get onto the cuck path. It can even give him the option to cheat on Lena and become a Chad.

Conversely, you can move past Gillian, and still get onto the cuck path, only because Lena has accepted Seymour's offer, and even if she ends up breaking the contract later.

This game is complex like that.

 

[Eet_Fuk]

Easy, but not that easy. I have several saves where Ian does not get over Gillian, has the nightmares, and still don't get onto the cuck path. It can even give him the option to cheat on Lena and become a Chad.

Conversely, you can move past Gillian, and still get onto the cuck path, only because Lena has accepted Seymour's offer, and even if she ends up breaking the contract later.

This game is complex like that.

As I said sometime before, BG 3 of adult games for sure