Sorry for the delayed response to this... Was out of town and then took a week (which then morphed into 2) to take a step back from the game to get more mental clarity and away from some of the heaviness involved.
I guess in theory he could but that would involve the game lying to us the player about that? Yes but Edwin is studying to a be a medical professional and Kathleen does not ask if he is crazy she just ponders how that must have colored his view of women. Do we see Edwin randomly calling women whores? do we see him thinking Felica is a POS gold digger or is that a choice the player has to make? I am trying to stick with what we have been given in the game and not things that could be (unless you provide evidence). This is going to be even harder for this because I can confirm several times in game when Edwin calls Kathleen or someone else a "bitch" or "whore" etc it is tied to having a high toughness and thus not applicable to EVERY edwin
Regarding if Edwin has a truly different view of Victoria/women in general other than what he told Kathleen... I'm not sure why "the game would be lying to us" simply because the game has not presented the entire world-view or thought process for Edwin. All we've gotten so far are mostly his reactions to things and interactions.
I never said Edwin
would or
did act in a negative way toward women, only that he
could. As you mention, Edwin's commentary and comments about the women in the game very much depend on the game variability, and I expect his view/responses to change with the Toughness score as you indicate. Also, we don't have the dialogue bible for the game, and I have not played thrrough every possible scenario, so can't tell you the number of times he may have said "slut", "whore" etc and what the specific situations are. I understand the request for examples, I do that daily in my IRL work, but I am not going to parse through every dialogue segment to illustrate those.
It has been established that they club has only been running for 5 years it is 100% impossible for Victoria to have worked at the club as we see it.
Yes, at the club, but you completely over-looked the entire rest of my sentence: "...
was Vic involved with the club or
maybe a pre-curser of the club/less 'fancy' bordello, and
was mentioned in thread that the CC is too new for that to have occured. I agree with the CC (but could be a shocker if revealed she was involved/knew of the club) timeline but
nothing so far I hav seen in the game refutes that Vic could have been part of a different set-up that had a similar function, just maybe not catering to the upscale clientele."
The thought processs here, to try to engage you into actually point out your numerous "maybe she was involved in 'more'/something different than the porn videos" type comments, I offered some CC like environment she was envolved with. Which you prety much overlooked/ignored completely to instead comment on the first part of the statement, the part that (as with many other comments) is the only concrete item we have seen in the game so far.
I dont recall saying she only made the films we have seen? In fact the last conclusion I draw there is if she only did porn she would have dozens and dozens of videos? The entire semi logical rant only mentions 2-4 videos because that is how many we have seen I really dont understand where you got this from?
I know
selberdreher would like me to get a screenshot (im too lazy) but there is a scene where young Edwin is celebrating his birthday with Ian and his Mother where we see him holding a Nintendo 2DS. While that console launched in late 2013 (means Edwin would be 11-13ish) it cost 130+ tax. Not a huge amount but shows that even while he was growing up Victoria was able to buy him superfluous electronics as presents so it is reasonable to assume they would have atleast one computer since that would also be used for school and her "multiple jobs".
Since I did not post a screenshot I could be mistaken and it might have been Ian who gifted the 2ds but then he could have simply just given Edwin an old PC when he got a newer model. Also
selberdreher has largely disproven that they were as bad off as we have been assuming. (
details found here)
I lumped your "semi-logical rant" as you called it in with some others about the short-term films she made, I vaguely recall you (or maybe someone else, my apologies if so) debating that she only ever made 3 films because that's all we have seen so far in game.
Victoria was doing porn in 2009 (Edwin was 7), Edwin stole money from fundraiser/does voyeur/burns shed in middle school (Students attending middle school are around age 11 to 13), Edwin says he found them during puberty (12-16)...... if you want him to have found his moms porn before that he HAS to find it during his 7th or 8th grade year (12-13) although you doubt he might have even had a PC at the time? Another thing to consider is that before the event happens Edwin is an "bad/hard to control kid" it is not until after when he sees his mother cry and comes to the realization that it was HIM who caused it. If your scenario is true that means he found his mom doing porn, acted out (to the point police were involved), saw his mom cry and started to change all within the same year, while he was also going through puberty...... pretty deep thoughts for a 12 year old being flooded with hormones.
I mashed these ideas together while responding, so not surprised they made no sense. As you mention, theoretically Edwin had these "dark tendencies" before Vic did porn, so him finding the movies didn't contribute to them, but the reaction she had when he burned the building down still makes me wonder if that couldn't have triggered her to do the movies. I only say that because (my memory is fuzy here) the outfit she had, hair style, etc seemed very similar to the one in the first intro/GB movie. It would be interesting to discover (any may never be known) if something like his doing that/pyro behavior was something that upset the delicate/fragile financial balance they had so she
had to do the movie(s) to survive for a short time, and them maybe found the money was easy and it "scratched an itch" or whatever and led to further corruption type activities.
Again, wildly speculativite, so who knows.
Again it is 100000% impossible for Victoria to be involved with the club at its current location/incarnation. Ian says he has been attending since he turned 18 and he is 21 which means he has been there for 3 years worth of competitions.
Lookin at those 2 pictures there has only been 3 competitions (if it was 4 competitions done it would be nearly 5 years). This lines up with Ians age and him saying he only missed one show (if there had been 4 years he would have missed all of the first years shows). This means that Ian would have 100% had to seen Victoria as a carnation (he does not act like he has).
Yep, already addressed in first reply back here that I knew, and had already mentioned that the timeline didn't work for the CCX (at least what we know now) but it didn't necessarily mean she wasn't involved in anything else pre-CC with August and/or Chuck. Unless she was part of the first year, but have not seen anything linked to that so extremely doubtful.
I am inclined to lean towards Escorting or some other variation of having sex for money because like you say it is the more logcial choice since it requires less times, is safer (if decent), and less chance of being recognized. I dont think chuck watched porn as much as one might think (if porn was enough he would not need his "playground") and he already has a way to meet Victrola (Ian and Edwins friendship) from there it is as simple as Edwin saying something like "wow your (insert thing here is so fancy" or something like that to let Chuck know that Victoria was in a potion he could exploit. He admits himself that he has ALWAYS been a pervert but it was not until his latter years that he was able to act it. This also fills in why Victoria is hesitant around him excursively during the coarse of the game.
10000% agree with this. Might not matter much, but how demoralizing might it be to find your beloved teacher, who may have been seen like a father/favotirre uncle figure, was screwing with your mom for money while you were in his class and all the club activities? It's all fun in games sure, but might be a shock (or might not matter much with the fairly signifigant desensitivity Edwin has already been exposed to) if you think of this as an IRL story and put yourself in Edwin's shoes, and the view of "a hot female character just 'having fun' forr profit" hits so close to home.
TD1900 I will eat an entire hat if Victrola was in 50+ amateur videos so please dont let that be the plan.....
IIRC we dont see any of previous contestants beyond the "free use" group from the previous year
We see during the 2nd Exhibition that August's associate brings in a girl to "be on the hook" as a house girl (Nicolette?) so its not as if that is the only way to get involved. If you try to have Kathleen solve rose's issue without having social butterfly/chameleon Kathleen says that she will have to work it off as a HG after the competition so there is precedent that it could happen. Some could argue that the club would want them to stay working as it decreases the chance of the girls reporting it to the police but I personally think that is covered by all the video recorded during the Exhibitions.
Agree, I really really hope Vic's career was not extensive because I'll be honest it would sigfigantly detract from the perception I have of her.
Speaking of "we don't see any of the previous contestants from the previous year", are you sure? i don't recall the game telling the back story of
any of the HG's other than whats-her-name that lost to enter the competition this year. We also have no access to the previous losing Carnations to even ask, so it's unknown. I think the club would be boosted personally if the losers were offered a way to stay on as HG's even if they lost, I mean it only makes sense as the patrons would now get "free use" of them all the time now, as opposed to limited interactions just during the competition.
As a final note to all, I think I am done for the most part with discussing Vic's background and impact (unless someone has a really major point to bring up) because it's a bit depressing to consider. In my time away from the game discussion, I thought about why this character impacted so much and why all the focus realized that I kept coming back to how I'd feel if I was in Edwin's shoes and found this out. I don't think I'd have handled it as well as he did/has to this point. Again we don't get the paragraphs of inner thought/discussion like we might in a book but we get enough to see at least the general outline.
I
don't want Victoria to have had years long career in porn. I don't want to have a bias toward her choices, and yet I do, and it bugs me. Mentally I understand it, but the romantic, moral, emotional aspect of my personality does not. In this regard I'm probably closer to what Edwin started the game with morally, the only difference is I don't have a shit ton of hot women around to slowly change my mind, lol...
