VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Finix_123]

Hi, friends. Is there anyone here who uses "URM" in this latest update and causes an error when looking for a variable? Is there a solution to solve it? Please help. Thank you.

 

[kikkos]

How unlock all memories? Somebody have saves of all memories?

 

[Fapparition]

"...sometimes I think all I want to do is find something holy and venerated and step on it until it's ugly, but that would just be a toddler having a temper tantrum" is what Edwin says to Mina during their convedrsation about sexual fantasies, right after remembering a scene of Vicky fucking a gangster. On several other occasions he has no issue recalling Vicky's other gonzo scenes when something reminds him of them. Never does he try to resist those memories. On the contrary, he regularly rewatches those scenes. To remind himself of how his mother suffered for him. To remind himself that the carnations are people, just like his mom. At least that what Edwin tells himself.

The Donovan scene is the first time in the game Edwin is violently repressing a memory of Vicky's porn scenes. It's the strongest revulsion to his mother's acting career he has expressed in the entire game. Yet from what we see of the interview, and what Vicky explicitly tells Donovan, her previous gonzo scenes were a lot worse in her experience than what Daddy Donny is doing to her. She even seems to genuinely enjoy herself.

Edwin has created a narrative around Vicky's porn career for himself. She did it for money to prevent their lives from changing too much after his father's death. She did it so they could stay in Edwin's childhood home, where Vicky has tons of memories with her husband. She suffered immensly during all of her shoots. Blatantly obvious to anyone watching those gonzo videos. Edwin saw her break down crying at the kitchen table at least once, that's clearly tied to her shoots in his mind.

In his mind, his mother is something holy and venerated, being defiled until it is ugly. All for his sake. Against her will.

The Donovan scene flies straight in the face of that narrative. Vicky didn't suffer, she enjoyed herself. She enjoyed being fucked on camera.

That should be a good thing though, right? Vicky went through some horrible experiences at the beginning of her porn career, but then she found a better studio. She suffered less. That's what Edwin wants, isn't it? His goal is to become a doctor, and take care of his mother. He should want her to not suffer.

Yet when Vicky breaks down in tears again in this update, her secretive porn career weighing heavily on her mind, Edwin does everything in his power to *prevent* Vicky from relieving herself of that burden. Sure, he frames it as comfort, reassuring her nothing could ever make him hate her. However, as soon as he realises what Vicky is about to tell him, his focus shifts from comforting and reassuring his mother to preventing her to tell her story.

He has to. Because he knows, once she tells the story of how and why she got into porn his own narrative will crumble. The dates of her videos don't match his fathers death. They're closer to other disasters in their lives. She wasn't a suffering victim for her entire career. She wasn't being defiled throughout. She simply stopped being holy at some point.

However, why is this narrative so important for Edwin? Because its his entire justification for constantly rewatching Victoria's gonzo porn scenes. He knows it's wrong, but he's only doing it to remind himself how much his mother suffered for his sake. He does it to feel connected to his mother on some level. He doesn't enjoy it. How could he? That's his mother being defiled there on camera. The most important person in his life. The person who sacrificed herself for him. The person who suffered for his sake.

If this narrative is false, then why does he keep rewatching those videos?
This is what Edwin will need to answer in the future. This is why he represses the memory of Donnovan's scene and why he wishes with all of his being that Vicky forgets the conversation at the end of the update.

My theory:

Edwin cannot admit to himself that he enjoys seeing his mother suffer. More than that, he cannot face the possibility of enjoying being the one responsible for her suffering. Again, Edwin to Mina in the hotel:"There's a feeling of revulsion that I want to turn inside out and direct at the world". As opposed to it being directed at himself?

Those porn scene dates are remarkably close to his voyeur/pyromaniac/violent assault experiences.

A very interesting read. Just want to add my 2 cents.

Fully agree about how Edwin created a narrative in his mind about Vicky being a martyr and how Donovan's videos are destroying it, making her look like a whore rather than a martyr. Now there is also the matter of selling the house. As far as I remember, after Edwin's father's death they weren't on brink of poverty, Vicky did porn so she could keep the house. And her decision to sell it now basically nullifies her sacrifice. "What was the point of going through all of this if you are going to sell it anyway?"

The dates of the videos thing feels far-fetched though. As i said, they weren't on brink of poverty, Vicky had a job and, most likely, some savings. She didn't need a new source of income immediately. Thus, her entering into porn industry only after a while since her husband's death doesn't look suspicious to me.

Also can't agree with the 'theory' part. As I see it, Edwin as a character has this vile, sadistic 'core' similar to Kathleen but after he sees Vicky in tears Edwin builds a shell around the 'core' that suppreses all the deviant tendencies. The shell of being a good, virtuous man. And later, after discovering his mother's past, uses the narrative to strengthen it. The narrative is the vital part of this shell and without it the shell will collapse which will expose the core and turn him into male version of Kathleen (which is exactly what Kathleen wants as she can sense sadistic nature within Edwin and wants to have a kindred soul around her). This is what Edwin is afraid of and tries to prevent, imo

 

[Ottoeight]

Fully agree about how Edwin created a narrative in his mind about Vicky being martyr and how Donovan's videos are destroing it, making her look like a whore rather than a martyr. Now there is also the matter of selling the house. As far as I remember, after Edwin's father's death they weren't on brink of poverty, Vicky did porn so she could keep the house. And her decision to sell it now basically nullifies her sacrifice. "What was the point of going through all of this if you are going to sell it anyway?"

Bruh. Have you ever heard of real estate market? A house value changes in time. She's starting to think about her retirement income as well.

And... things change. People change: people get older, you know. As my mother once told me: "I'm getting older and older, this house feels bigger and bigger and household chores are getting harder and harder".

Therefore, she's nullifying my ass. This is simply common sense, and if you're playing as a down-to-earth Edwin - not the looney Edwin version - you will choose the sensible answer.

Just think about it.

 

[Fapparition]

Bruh. Have you ever heard of real estate market? A house value changes in time. She's starting to think about her retirement income as well.

And... things change. People change: people get older, you know. As my mother once told me: "I'm getting older and older, this house feels bigger and bigger and household chores are getting harder and harder".

Therefore, she's nullifying my ass. This is simply common sense, and if you're playing as a down-to-earth Edwin - not the looney Edwin version - you will choose the sensible answer.

Just think about it.

I'm not saying that selling the house is illogical and stupid decision. Just that it takes its toll on Edwin's 'narrative'. I mean you do undestand that Edwin didn't like idea of selling the house not because "it's the place of his childhood memories", well not fully at least, right?

 

[Ottoeight]

I'm not saying that selling the house is illogical and stupid decision. Just that it takes its toll on Edwin's 'narrative'

We have different Edwins in this game.

This game is not a simple matter of choose-your-own-bitches-to-fuck. Bromance and toughness points make a difference and shape different Edwins.

 

[Fapparition]

We have different Edwins in this game.

This game is not a simple matter of choose-your-own-bitches-to-fuck. Bromance and toughness points make a difference and shape different Edwins.

Sorry, I'm not sure what are you trying to prove to me here anymore. I feel like there is miscommunication. I know we can influence over Edwin's character, to make his sadistic side overcome virtuous one and vice versa etc. But we cannot change his past and that's what I'm referring to when I talk about the 'narrative'. It's a story about Vicky being a martyr inside Edwin's mind. It is there no matter what choices you make

 

[nonethatmatters]

But the club isn't behind it. That's just people taking Grace's "Chuck told me" and running double marathon with it.

But clearly Edwin and Ian was acquainted at the point when Vicky got to Donny and Donny is clearly under August.

Tell me for someone like Chuck would he have not be informed of this situation considering that he holds Edwin in high regard only because he helped Ian through that phase of his life?

And clearly he has shown it to Ian's mother of what she has done to Grace not just told her for how much she emphasise that he tells her everything.

 

[XxXGhost]

Anyone still not sharing a save game

 

[nonethatmatters]

A very interesting read. Just want to add my 2 cents.

Fully agree about how Edwin created a narrative in his mind about Vicky being a martyr and how Donovan's videos are destroying it, making her look like a whore rather than a martyr. Now there is also the matter of selling the house. As far as I remember, after Edwin's father's death they weren't on brink of poverty, Vicky did porn so she could keep the house. And her decision to sell it now basically nullifies her sacrifice. "What was the point of going through all of this if you are going to sell it anyway?"

The dates of the videos thing feels far-fetched though. As i said, they weren't on brink of poverty, Vicky had a job and, most likely, some savings. She didn't need a new source of income immediately. Thus, her entering into porn industry only after a while since her husband's death doesn't look suspicious to me.

Also can't agree with the 'theory' part. As I see it, Edwin as a character has this vile, sadistic 'core' similar to Kathleen but after he sees Vicky in tears Edwin builds a shell around the 'core' that suppreses all the deviant tendencies. The shell of being a good, virtuous man. And later, after discovering his mother's past, uses the narrative to strengthen it. The narrative is the vital part of this shell and without it the shell will collapse which will expose the core and turn him into male version of Kathleen (which is exactly what Kathleen wants as she can sense sadistic nature within Edwin and wants to have a kindred soul around her). This is what Edwin is afraid of and tries to prevent, imo

And do keep in mind when we tell Ian the truth Edwin clearly says that he does not discuss the "why" even though he himself considers her to be a devout mother, but the next sentence stating "for the thrill" may mean that he himself is in doubt.

 

[JustAlexKing]

Anyone know the names of all girls + what game they're from in Donovan's room (the poster), i recognize Joanna from The Inn and Jessica from Ripple, no idea what are the 2 girls on the poster behind Donovan's back.

 

[Alfius]

I'm looking for the Hana-Mina memory

And this is my current stats

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[ModiThorrson]

I'm looking for the Hana-Mina memory

And this is my current stats

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Way back before the date with hana you have the option to tell mina about hana, apparently you didn't.

 

[ffive]

But clearly Edwin and Ian was acquainted at the point when Vicky got to Donny and Donny is clearly under August.

Tell me for someone like Chuck would he have not be informed of this situation considering that he holds Edwin in high regard only because he helped Ian through that phase of his life?

Why would Donovan bother to tell August about one of many girls who auditioned for him, and why would August tell Chuck about it? Neither Donovan nor August would be aware Victoria is someone related to some boy who happens to be a friend of Chuck's 13-or-so years old nephew?

Even if Donovan told August and August informed Chuck, this doesn't mean "the club was behind it" but merely that Chuck was aware of this development.

 

[ffive]

Where did I go wrong?

When Hana became Edwin's GF you should've come clear about it and called off the bucket list deal with Mina, instead of fucking her in the hotel.

 

[TD1900]

Anyone know the names of all girls + what game they're from in Donovan's room (the poster), i recognize Joanna from The Inn and Jessica from Ripple, no idea what are the 2 girls on the poster behind Donovan's back.

The two remaining cameos are:

- Oppai Odyssey (Space Deep Throat)​

- N2's games, Serenity and Last Human (1,000 Convicts and a Catgirl)​

Thank for mentioning them because I spent a silly amount of time looking through classic porn posters and finding the ones I wanted to copy.

 

[Ottoeight]

And do keep in mind when we tell Ian the truth Edwin clearly says that he does not discuss the "why" even though he himself considers her to be a devout mother, but the next sentence stating "for the thrill" may mean that he himself is in doubt.

Edwin tells himself more than once that he wonders why she did what she did.

Why would Donovan bother to tell August about one of many girls who auditioned for him, and why would August tell Chuck about it? Neither Donovan nor August would be aware Victoria is someone related to some boy who happens to be a friend of Chuck's 13-or-so years old nephew?

Even if Donovan told August and August informed Chuck, this doesn't mean "the club was behind it" but merely that Chuck was aware of this development.

My simple explanation: Chuck just recognised her while he was watching a porn.

 

[Alfius]

When Hana became Edwin's GF you should've come clear about it and called off the bucket list deal with Mina, instead of fucking her in the hotel.

I'm not sure about this one.... As far as I know, you are then not on Mina's path anymore.

Way back before the date with hana you have the option to tell mina about hana, apparently you didn't.

I think this is it... Will give it a shot

 

[TD1900]

I think this is it... Will give it a shot

All that's needed is for Mina to see Edwin kiss hana, and a minimum of three bi curious points.
Being transparent with Mina about Hana just alters the context and lead in of the scene.

Keep in mind the scene itself plays after Edwin leaves the club.

 

[ename144]

Why would Donovan bother to tell August about one of many girls who auditioned for him, and why would August tell Chuck about it? Neither Donovan nor August would be aware Victoria is someone related to some boy who happens to be a friend of Chuck's 13-or-so years old nephew?

Even if Donovan told August and August informed Chuck, this doesn't mean "the club was behind it" but merely that Chuck was aware of this development.

Well, we know Chuck has some kind of unpleasant relationship with Victoria because she reacts extremely negatively when Grace says she knows "everything." That's more than just Chuck being vaguely aware of Victoria's porn career.

But I agree that whatever is going on, I don't think it was "Club" business. If that were the case, I don't see how Victoria could have let the MC work for Chuck without going through a similar crisis of confidence. She clearly had some misgivings about it at the start of the game, but nothing close to the "drinking herself into a stupor and rethinking her life choices" level we saw here.

Maybe she thought whatever happened between her and Chuck was something he'd keep silent about and thus Grace knowing about it has shattered that assumption. Personally I doubt that, but I don't think we know enough to speculate meaningfully on just what happened between them, nor on what Grace actually knows. Hopefully we'll learn more in the next update, but it's possible Victoria will be less talkative in the cold light of day, and the MC might have to wait until after the Exhibition to revisit it. We'll just have to see what happens.