VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5] [Mutt & Jeff]

[TD1900]

She is an expensive whore that already in the first week of competition allows to degrade her to a cheap whore. That's the point.

That's also my point that through half of the game it looks like it is the MC that teaches her. Power dynamics are wasted. She degrades too fast to the state of a simple crazed sex animal to be taken seriously as a sage.

What's the difference between being a cheap and expensive whore? They both fuck for money, so surely it's a question of price tag. If that's the distinction, from her perspective membership into the Carnation Club and how she plans on leveraging it isn't selling herself for cheap.

If the distinction you're making is that she's degrading herself and making herself less through public acts of sex... you don't think expensive whores have people defalcate on their chests? In a certain light, the blue blooded members of the club are the ones degrading themselves down to her level.

 

[Beduin123]

We don't know. I guess you could either wait and see or shoot your mouth off.

So, you don't know anything but still trying to pretend that you do. Too much hot air in you to tell me when to shut my mouth.

 

[ffive]

So, you don't know anything but still trying to pretend that you do. Too much hot air in you to tell me when to shut my mouth.

No, i'm pointing out that neither of us know anything about it. That's why i was keeping my mouth shut on this subject, and you're making yourself look foolish [insisting on] doing the opposite.

 

[Beduin123]

What's the difference between being a cheap and expensive whore?

I think the same as the difference between a homeless and a billionaire. They are both not free from the life circumstances and the quality of life is a bit different, but don't you agree, a billionaire has better control of the circumstances.

At this stage Felicia doesn't strike me as a spoiled but calculating woman in control of the things she seemed to be in the beginning. That role would suit her if she wanted to revenge her husband. Now she is just a sex animal following her lust and completely depending on the external circumstances.

 

[TD1900]

No, i'm pointing out that neither of us know anything about it. That's why i was keeping my mouth shut on this subject, and you're making yourself look foolish doing the opposite.

I mean... you have read far enough to know she's aware of the pitfalls of her plan, how it might blow up in her face, and a vague claim of contingency. It's not the same.

 

[Beduin123]

No, i'm pointing out that neither of us know anything about it. That's why i was keeping my mouth shut on this subject, and you're making yourself look foolish [insisting on] doing the opposite.

So, you believe in some infinite wisdom of the DEVs that will allow them to twist this situation somehow in the end to make it more feasible. OK, godspeed.
Time will show who of us is foolish. Still I'm very much in doubt that you are qualified to judge my foolishness.

 

[ename144]

So, please enlighten my ignorance, what is her brilliant plan involving to completely degrade herself and somehow stay afloat in her life?

From what she's said: blackmail. Once she has some influential friends outside Elias' control, she plans to leverage the dirt she's picked up on other people over the years (plus her high charisma) to get her what she needs. She may end up with less in terns in total dollars in her pocket than she had with Elias, but she'll accept that because she'll have far more say on how to use it.

And it's worth noting that her plan could work... *IF* everything goes well. The fact she's degrading herself in front of people who can't call her out on that in public is immaterial to her as long as they give her the contacts she needs; it's not like being sexually degraded is repulsive to her. Elias will no doubt learn about this eventually, but if Felicia has her own network by then it won't matter to her.

Of course, we in the audience have already learned that Felicia's plan is doomed, and it was always going to be something of a longshot. But Felicia was desperate enough and/or overconfident enough to assume she could make it work, so she tossed her hat into the ring. That arguably makes her foolish (and I have indeed argued that), but people act in foolish ways all the time.

 

[imno]

no, don't trust ren'py saves files from randos on the internet, they are not secure

You must be registered to see the links

then do i have to start from the begining

 

[Beduin123]

From what she's said: blackmail. Once she has some influential friends outside Elias' control, she plans to leverage the dirt she's picked up on other people over the years (plus her high charisma) to get her what she needs. She may end up with less in terns in total dollars in her pocket than she had with Elias, but she'll accept that because she'll have far more say on how to use it.

And it's worth noting that her plan could work... *IF* everything goes well. The fact she's degrading herself in front of people who can't call her out on that in public is immaterial to her as long as they give her the contacts she needs; it's not like being sexually degraded is repulsive to her. Elias will no doubt learn about this eventually, but if Felicia has her own network by then it won't matter to her.

Of course, we in the audience have already learned that Felicia's plan is doomed, and it was always going to be something of a longshot. But Felicia was desperate enough and/or overconfident enough to assume she could make it work, so she tossed her hat into the ring. That arguably makes her foolish (and I have indeed argued that), but people act in foolish ways all the time.

Seems too far fetched to me. Becoming a completely degraded person to blackmail or punish somebody that you simply don't like? Isn't it easier for a prize wife to get a good lawyer and go for a decently rewarding divorce?
And about degradation, one thing is to love sex and enjoy it e.g. making young boys like the MC your sex toys or even holding wild sex orgies at your mansion. The other thing is being spunked on by a dozen of old assholes to become a disgusting trash can. I'm not that good at human deviation psychology but for me it doesn't look like what a "sex sage" is.

That's basically my disappointment that Felicia's impression of a stunning, cunning and manipulative sex guru was quickly replaced by an image of a rather stupid and primitive whore driven by her basic animal instincts.

 

[Idontplay]

I think you have overestimated Felicia; not a lot, just totally.

 

[Ungawa]

From what she's said: blackmail. Once she has some influential friends outside Elias' control, she plans to leverage the dirt she's picked up on other people over the years (plus her high charisma) to get her what she needs. She may end up with less in terns in total dollars in her pocket than she had with Elias, but she'll accept that because she'll have far more say on how to use it.

And it's worth noting that her plan could work... *IF* everything goes well. The fact she's degrading herself in front of people who can't call her out on that in public is immaterial to her as long as they give her the contacts she needs; it's not like being sexually degraded is repulsive to her. Elias will no doubt learn about this eventually, but if Felicia has her own network by then it won't matter to her.

Of course, we in the audience have already learned that Felicia's plan is doomed, and it was always going to be something of a longshot. But Felicia was desperate enough and/or overconfident enough to assume she could make it work, so she tossed her hat into the ring. That arguably makes her foolish (and I have indeed argued that), but people act in foolish ways all the time.

I don't know why, but Felicia always riles people up...

It's like people sometimes just can't connect that she has desires and aspirations, she settled on what she thought was the best then finds that she wants more and still wants higher aspirations.

How she does it is flawed, but it makes her an interesting character regardless.

 

[Beduin123]

I think you have overestimated Felicia; not a lot, just totally.

May be. Or may be the Devs didn't use the potential that her character had in the beginning of the game, making her just another primitive whore instead.

 

[Beduin123]

wants higher aspirations

Yeah, to become a cheap spunk trash is certainly a higher inspiration than to become a sex hungry and manipulative cheating wife

I don't know why, but Felicia always riles people up

So, may be it's not a coincidence?

 

[Idontplay]

Primitive? I don't see any "primitive" character in this game. On the contrary Felicia is a very developed and tridimensional character (like all other characters of this game), with very strong and believable bias, motivations, desires.
In this game the cunning and manipulative "sex guru" (¿sex guru?) is Katheleen. So why castrate (let's continue to use random words to express an idea in place of the right ones) a character, just to turn it in a clone of another one?

 

[Ungawa]

Yeah, to become a cheap spunk trash is certainly a higher inspiration than to become a sex hungry and manipulative cheating wife

*sigh*

That's really not the answer, man.

Each one of the Carnations has simple motivations and single minded determination. Edwin figures this out. They all have flaws. Veronica is about as subtle as a boulder rolling downhill.

I did a Veronica write up here

Rosalind? Stays in bad deals

I mean sure, it's easy to write off Felicia or anyone else in the story. I just find that they all give us different ways to view what's going on and there's no easy answers to any of their struggles.

 

[misfolk]

im sorry i do not get the reference can you please elaborate thank you so much

It's literally the address of the website, go to it.

 

[ffive]

Isn't it easier for a prize wife to get a good lawyer and go for a decently rewarding divorce?

IIRC Felicia was very clear in the game this is not an option for her. Ellas had her sign a prenup that effectively ensures she gets nothing of note if divorce takes place.

That's the problems with marrying millionaires -- they already have better lawyers than their prize wives to be could dream of.

Yeah, to become a cheap spunk trash is certainly a higher inspiration than to become a sex hungry and manipulative cheating wife

Felicia wants to become influential person who is not dependent on someone's whims. She neither minds nor gets hung up on the "cheap spunk trash" if she can get there.

Perhaps this is what bothers some people about her? That their primitive slut-shaming and going on about "spunk covered cheap whores" simply doesn't affect her? (or that, being an exhibitionist, she may even revel in it) Kat certainly seems to be taking this nonchalance of hers almost personally.

 

[GhostMGN]

The other thing is being spunked on by a dozen of old assholes to become a disgusting trash can.

I apologize for the machine translation.
In the current version of the game, there are options in which the expensive whore Felicia brilliantly wins every exhibition against “mousey fatt-tited brunette, or stuck-up gym freak redhead” (c), club girls against her look incompetent and Kathleen looks like an envious fool. With a high probability in the future she will not be able to bow down from a shovel of disgusting trash, but at the moment you can only blame yourself for her “cheapness”.

 

[GIL3D]

My main point is what Felicia is doing and she is most certainly ruining her husband's business reputation, his prospective political career (if he has any) and absolutely everything about her own life. Things like that cannot be hidden and can be used any time against both of them.

It's just very poor plot decision. I could buy it if she performed in the Club with her face covered by a mask under a fake name. But no, she openly declares from the stage that she is the wife of one of the richest persons in the town and after that immediately allows completely degrade herself to the level of the dirtiest pornstar.

I don't think you understand what she is trying to do and what it takes to make it to that last social tier she aspires to. For you, what she has is invaluable, and she's throwing it away, but for her, what she can accomplish trumps all risks. She's "all or nothing." What you call "degrading herself," she sees as merely displaying her power level, showing what she's got and how far she's willing to go (all the way).

I presume nobody here can surely know how the wicked minds of those who thrive by stepping on our collective necks truly are. Ours is an educated guess that tries to marry porn conductivity with plausibility. We see them as dragons, hollow and bored monsters with the world at their feet, desperate to be amused. Felicia understands the incredible opportunity she has been given, so she dances their wicked tunes, challenges them, dazzles them... and has done well so far. Her only problem is that, somewhere along the way, she forgot who she really is.

This is my partner's take on the character, at least to the extent I understand it. And I'm glad he's at the helm. Truth is stranger than fiction, by a margin most people won't even realize in their whole lives. I find his weaving of bizarre personas more akin to reality than what most would be able to muster if they ever dared to take a pen and face the crowd.

 

[Zoranian]

Are there consequences down the road for taking money from Felicia(for the date in the art gallery) and giving it to Rosiland(just telling her in the car that's what you'll be using the money for), or should I just bring it up with the club?