VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[bonerland]

I'm not saying she was taken advantage of. But that she apparently doesn't find MC very appealing when she's sober.

Consider it a reverse of the usual stereotype how a guy needs a few drinks to stop getting turned off by a "not hot enough" girl. He, too, doesn't complain afterwards about "being taken advantage of".

She's warmed up to him a lot since telling him "I hope I never see you again."

 

[labmouseblues]

I hope at the very least we can agree that it is not completely generic

I don't think the game's unique approach to characterisation was ever in question.

 

[moonpartially]

Congrats on being rank #1 [weighted rating] on the site.
Well deserved!

EDIT : Annnnd we're back at #2 behind Eternum, short lived king.

 

[UmbralKnight]

I'm not saying she was taken advantage of. But that she apparently doesn't find MC very appealing when she's sober.

Consider it a reverse of the usual stereotype how a guy needs a few drinks to stop getting turned off by a "not hot enough" girl. He, too, doesn't complain afterwards about "being taken advantage of".

i don't understand where you got the idea that veronica doesn't find the MC appealing , in fact she says few times that the MC isn't that bad looking and almost cute in a funny ,dorky kind of way

 

[ffive]

i don't understand where you got the idea that veronica doesn't find the MC appealing , in fact she says few times that the MC isn't that bad looking and almost cute in a funny ,dorky kind of way

Invite Mina to the gym and you will see how Veronica acts around someone she actually finds appealing.

 

[bonerland]

Invite Mina to the gym and you will see how Veronica acts around someone she actually finds appealing.

I think you're forgetting that MC working for the brothel is also a factor in why she's not into him (at first).

 

[Thor875]

This is not a thread. I just need to pause my game and vent my frustration.
I just saw Victoria's rim job scene for the first time. I feel the same way as the cameraman.
It makes me want to puke. Sorry for the interruption.

 

[ffive]

I think you're forgetting that MC working for the brothel is also a factor in why she's not into him (at first).

Considering it's not only not a factor against, but even incentive for other two Carnations to seek sex with Edwin (especially Rose) why do you think it'd have opposite effect on Veronica? Do you believe her to be someone who wouldn't try to use sex as influence with someone they found physically appealing, to curry favors and/or advantage in the competition?

 

[UmbralKnight]

Invite Mina to the gym and you will see how Veronica acts around someone she actually finds appealing.

well OBVIOUSLY mina is cuter but guess what the MC helped veronica during her darkest moment after the second event and that was a great bonding moment.
after that instance their bond has grown only stronger.
sure veronica will ALWAYS be bisexual but you can't deny that she definitely feels something for the MC after their great night together.

 

[UmbralKnight]

Considering it's not only not a factor against, but even incentive for other two Carnations to seek sex with Edwin (especially Rose) why do you think it'd have opposite effect on Veronica? Do you believe her to be someone who wouldn't try to use sex as influence with someone they found physically appealing, to curry favors and/or advantage in the competition?

if veronica really wanted to weaponize her sexuality and play the "lesbian" angle do you really think she would waste time on a mere errand boy like the MC rather she would have used it to seduce all the patrons first then maybe try it on someone with weak impulse control like ian or warren who are prone to lust and can be seduced easily.

 

[bonerland]

Considering it's not only not a factor against, but even incentive for other two Carnations to seek sex with Edwin (especially Rose) why do you think it'd have opposite effect on Veronica? Do you believe her to be someone who wouldn't try to use sex as influence with someone they found physically appealing, to curry favors and/or advantage in the competition?

Well none of the other characters say "I never want to see you again" to him, so her turning to him at her lowest moment does say a lot about how she finds him physically appealing at least.

 

[ffive]

if veronica really wanted to weaponize her sexuality and play the "lesbian" angle do you really think she would waste time on a mere errand boy like the MC rather she would have used it to seduce all the patrons first then maybe try it on some one weak like ian or warren who are prone to impulsive lusty actions

I think this is pretty reaching.

For one, seducing Edwin is evidently something another Carnation thought as perfectly viable use of her time, and that's because Edwin isn't merely errand boy but a person who can influence the competition greatly -- as proven by your ability as the player to determine with your actions who actually wins the rounds.

And second, it's not like you can't weaponize your sexuality on more than one person. And when Veronica is spending time with Edwin (no matter if voluntarily or not) she is in no position to seduce patrons, but she is in perfect position to get Edwin to like her and help her. Why would she opt out of gaining advantage, no matter how small, unless it's simply something that she can't bring herself to do?

 

[UmbralKnight]

it's not like you can't weaponize your sexuality on more than one person.

she is in no position to seduce patrons

come on now
we both know that's not true
before the 2nd week games begin kathy makes all the girls familiarize themselves with the patrons , you can find rose and felicia in the ground floor interacting with the patrons.
meanwhile you will veroncia up in the bar making rude remarks about the patrons there which includes people like the police chief and the opera singer.
clearly their votes determine the winner of that event , she and the other girls are pretty much left on their own so she could have definetly used that time to seduce anyone if she wanted to.

 

[UmbralKnight]

I think this is pretty reaching.

For one, seducing Edwin is evidently something another Carnation thought as perfectly viable use of her time, and that's because Edwin isn't merely errand boy but a person who can influence the competition greatly -- as proven by your ability as the player to determine with your actions who actually wins the rounds.

And second, it's not like you can't weaponize your sexuality on more than one person. And when Veronica is spending time with Edwin (no matter if voluntarily or not) she is in no position to seduce patrons, but she is in perfect position to get Edwin to like her and help her. Why would she opt out of gaining advantage, no matter how small, unless it's simply something that she can't bring herself to do?

the MC can make subtle moves only IF such an opportunity arises , he is in no position to make drastic actions that would help anyone directly.
we already saw that with kathy in week 2 where she takes in charge and punishes veroncia.
MC has no standing of his own within the club , he is an extension of kathy a shadow if you will , he has no power of his own.
i bet even ian has somewhat bigger leverage within the club than the MC because of his relationship with Dr Chuck.
MC can't do anything that would go against the wishes of kathy DURING the games , he could at best try to help the girls subtly with the very little power he has been given by kathy.

 

[ffive]

the MC can make subtle moves only IF such an opportunity arises , he is in no position to make drastic actions that would help anyone directly.

You quite literally determine outcome of the rounds by how you choose to conduct the interviews, and how you choose to behave during the exhibitions. The patrons and judges vote on what they find appealing, and it's the MC who ultimately makes things appealing for them (or not)

It doesn't matter if you classify those actions as subtle or overt, the outcomes are your doing. As such, claiming that Edwin is just errand boy of no importance and thus not worth seducing, it's simply false. You can make Carnation of choice win or can make her lose.

 

[labmouseblues]

Considering it's not only not a factor against, but even incentive for other two Carnations to seek sex with Edwin (especially Rose) why do you think it'd have opposite effect on Veronica?

Because they're different people, driven by different motivations and with different personal boundaries? Veronica is clearly willing to get fucked for a chance at saving her dream, but she isn't willing to get fucked for a chance at a maybe a possible advantage, because her dream is worth a lot, but not everything. Rose on the other will do anything for her child, and that includes eking out any extra edge she can get out of fucking the protagonist. Fel just likes to get fucked, preferably in the ass. Different folks, different strokes.

Do you believe her to be someone who wouldn't try to use sex as influence with someone they found physically appealing, to curry favors and/or advantage in the competition?

That's precisely how she's presented.

It doesn't matter if you classify those actions as subtle or overt, the outcomes are your doing.

The player's doing. It's a game, you're supposed to have agency. That doesn't necessarily mean the protagonist is actually responsible for the outcome of the competition, that's not how the narrative is constructed.

 

[GokutheG]

Nothing about V's preferences is "closeted". She straight up says she's OK with feminine guys sometimes. While I may have preferred her to be a lesbian that had very little chance of happening in a guy mc game. So while her fiance was a woman and her preferences heavily leans towards women she is still bi.

 

[UmbralKnight]

You quite literally determine outcome of the rounds by how you choose to conduct the interviews, and how you choose to behave during the exhibitions. The patrons and judges vote and what they find appealing, and it's the MC who ultimately makes things appealing (or not)

It doesn't matter if you classify those actions as subtle or overt, the outcomes are your doing. As such, claiming that Edwin is just errand boy of no importance and thus not worth seducing, it's simply false. You can make Carnation of choice win or can make her lose.

you THINK you can make the girl of your choice win, there is no definite proof that you accomplished anything that kathy didn't want you to.
don't forget why kathy hired the MC in the first place , she wants you to be her helper/errand boy who makes sure that all the girls are still in the race fighting each other until the last day.
she even says that she knows that some of them might try to seduce you or ask you to help them win.
so yeah she DEFINITELY knows and she even suggests to use it to your advantage to keep them in the game for much longer.

if kathy says during the next event she knows you went behind her back and punishes say someone like rose who made a private deal with the MC , you can't help her in any manner other than watch her suffer even more.

 

[UmbralKnight]

Well none of the other characters say "I never want to see you again" to him, so her turning to him at her lowest moment does say a lot about how she finds him physically appealing at least.

yeah she goes from someone who detests the MC being in the same room as her to someone who appreciates all the hard work the MC is putting to achieve his goals (just like her) and wants to really get to know the MC (as seen in the dance scene) all in a span of few weeks so yeah there is definitely some appeal that goes beyond the mere physical appearance.

 

[ffive]

Because they're different people, driven by different motivations and with different personal boundaries? Veronica is clearly willing to get fucked for a chance at saving her dream, but she isn't willing to get fucked for a chance at a maybe a possible advantage, because her dream is worth a lot, but not everything. (...) Fel just likes to get fucked, preferably in the ass. Different folks, different strokes.

There's one aspect missing in this summary -- Veronica, quite like Felicia, likes to fuck people she is attracted to. From her own words we know she's been doing it frequently, and we can see it from how readily she'll jump any girl you bring in her vicinity.

So, an argument was made here that "oh Veronica likes Edwin enough, she just doesn't fuck him because he is part of the club" . And that's basically a nonsense, because if Veronica was indeed attracted to Edwin to the point of wanting to fuck him, him being part of the club shouldn't be an obstacle in this -- as fucking a member of the club would only bring her extra advantage, on top of all the fun from having sex with someone attractive to her.

So really, the argument that "Veronica won't fuck someone from the club for just an advantage in competition" in a round-about way acknowledges that said advantage would be the only thing Veronica would get out this deal (and that's not enough to make her want to do it). In other words, that the attraction and fun from having sex with someone she finds attractive... simply isn't there.

you THINK you can make the girl of your choice win, there is no definite proof that you accomplished anything that kathy didn't want you to.

I guess we will know soon enough, considering with the next exhibition you can potentially get a girl of choice her 3rd win, which should be enough to declare her an (early) winner.

But even if Kat somehow stretches the competition for another round, it doesn't change the fact that she'd find it quite difficult to explain why a girl who won exhibitions 3-4 times shouldn't be declared the winner of the competition, when that's what she herself declared would determine the winner. Especially when the player can do this without any in-game deal, but just handing the wins to a Carnation who isn't Rose (or to Rose, but after officially turning her down and with no deal in place)

"Edwin has rigged the competition by fucking this girl vigorously but being lenient towards another one!" would be pretty ridiculous claim to make from the stage. Even though, in reality and under the hood of the game, this is exactly how it works.