VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Maccabbee]

Yeah, a game about a twenty something nerd that gets paid to have sex with a bunch of sex goddesses while having two hotties lust after him on the side is such a break away from porn conventions.

This game is so far beyond "porn conventions" even for an AVN. The characters and stakes are completely extreme, and it would not surprise me if any character dies, LI, MC, or otherwise. The club is beyond being a "brothel" or a "sex club", though it has both features. The extreme depravity of the patrons, and the effects on the staff, is only even hinted at up to now. I'm sure we'll plumb the depths of this fun shitshow before the end, but with the imminent coup, shit might get real, quickly.

August is a killer, Katherine probably isn't averse to dropping a body, and who knows how crazy Chuck can get. Sophia is absolutely capable of killing people. Warren is a violent psychopath. This is not a "porno". This is a morality play.

 

[labmouseblues]

Or maybe there's a little more nuance to these things than just black and white.

My man, nuance is when a trophy wife slut turns out to be a smart cookie slut with a penchant for introspection. You're advocating for Rian Johnson levels of "subverting expectations".

 

[ffive]

You're advocating for Rian Johnson levels of "subverting expectations".

I'm not advocating anything. I'm pointing out that the game already subverts some expectations, therefore it's not out of the question for it to subvert even more of them.

I hope at the very least we can agree that it is not completely generic, so the argument that it for sure is going to slavishly follow all basic conventions without any chance for it doing its own thing, falls somewhat short?

 

[bonerland]

I'm not saying she was taken advantage of. But that she apparently doesn't find MC very appealing when she's sober.

Consider it a reverse of the usual stereotype how a guy needs a few drinks to stop getting turned off by a "not hot enough" girl. He, too, doesn't complain afterwards about "being taken advantage of".

She's warmed up to him a lot since telling him "I hope I never see you again."

 

[labmouseblues]

I hope at the very least we can agree that it is not completely generic

I don't think the game's unique approach to characterisation was ever in question.

 

[moonpartially]

Congrats on being rank #1 [weighted rating] on the site.
Well deserved!

 

[UmbralKnight]

I'm not saying she was taken advantage of. But that she apparently doesn't find MC very appealing when she's sober.

Consider it a reverse of the usual stereotype how a guy needs a few drinks to stop getting turned off by a "not hot enough" girl. He, too, doesn't complain afterwards about "being taken advantage of".

i don't understand where you got the idea that veronica doesn't find the MC appealing , in fact she says few times that the MC isn't that bad looking and almost cute in a funny ,dorky kind of way

 

[ffive]

i don't understand where you got the idea that veronica doesn't find the MC appealing , in fact she says few times that the MC isn't that bad looking and almost cute in a funny ,dorky kind of way

Invite Mina to the gym and you will see how Veronica acts around someone she actually finds appealing.

 

[bonerland]

Invite Mina to the gym and you will see how Veronica acts around someone she actually finds appealing.

I think you're forgetting that MC working for the brothel is also a factor in why she's not into him (at first).

 

[Thor875]

This is not a thread. I just need to pause my game and vent my frustration.
I just saw Victoria's rim job scene for the first time. I feel the same way as the cameraman.
It makes me want to puke. Sorry for the interruption.

 

[ffive]

I think you're forgetting that MC working for the brothel is also a factor in why she's not into him (at first).

Considering it's not only not a factor against, but even incentive for other two Carnations to seek sex with Edwin (especially Rose) why do you think it'd have opposite effect on Veronica? Do you believe her to be someone who wouldn't try to use sex as influence with someone they found physically appealing, to curry favors and/or advantage in the competition?

 

[UmbralKnight]

Invite Mina to the gym and you will see how Veronica acts around someone she actually finds appealing.

well OBVIOUSLY mina is cuter but guess what the MC helped veronica during her darkest moment after the second event and that was a great bonding moment.
after that instance their bond has grown only stronger.
sure veronica will ALWAYS be bisexual but you can't deny that she definitely feels something for the MC after their great night together.

 

[UmbralKnight]

Considering it's not only not a factor against, but even incentive for other two Carnations to seek sex with Edwin (especially Rose) why do you think it'd have opposite effect on Veronica? Do you believe her to be someone who wouldn't try to use sex as influence with someone they found physically appealing, to curry favors and/or advantage in the competition?

if veronica really wanted to weaponize her sexuality and play the "lesbian" angle do you really think she would waste time on a mere errand boy like the MC rather she would have used it to seduce all the patrons first then maybe try it on someone with weak impulse control like ian or warren who are prone to lust and can be seduced easily.

 

[bonerland]

Considering it's not only not a factor against, but even incentive for other two Carnations to seek sex with Edwin (especially Rose) why do you think it'd have opposite effect on Veronica? Do you believe her to be someone who wouldn't try to use sex as influence with someone they found physically appealing, to curry favors and/or advantage in the competition?

Well none of the other characters say "I never want to see you again" to him, so her turning to him at her lowest moment does say a lot about how she finds him physically appealing at least.

 

[ffive]

if veronica really wanted to weaponize her sexuality and play the "lesbian" angle do you really think she would waste time on a mere errand boy like the MC rather she would have used it to seduce all the patrons first then maybe try it on some one weak like ian or warren who are prone to impulsive lusty actions

I think this is pretty reaching.

For one, seducing Edwin is evidently something another Carnation thought as perfectly viable use of her time, and that's because Edwin isn't merely errand boy but a person who can influence the competition greatly -- as proven by your ability as the player to determine with your actions who actually wins the rounds.

And second, it's not like you can't weaponize your sexuality on more than one person. And when Veronica is spending time with Edwin (no matter if voluntarily or not) she is in no position to seduce patrons, but she is in perfect position to get Edwin to like her and help her. Why would she opt out of gaining advantage, no matter how small, unless it's simply something that she can't bring herself to do?

 

[UmbralKnight]

it's not like you can't weaponize your sexuality on more than one person.

she is in no position to seduce patrons

come on now
we both know that's not true
before the 2nd week games begin kathy makes all the girls familiarize themselves with the patrons , you can find rose and felicia in the ground floor interacting with the patrons.
meanwhile you will veroncia up in the bar making rude remarks about the patrons there which includes people like the police chief and the opera singer.
clearly their votes determine the winner of that event , she and the other girls are pretty much left on their own so she could have definetly used that time to seduce anyone if she wanted to.

 

[UmbralKnight]

I think this is pretty reaching.

For one, seducing Edwin is evidently something another Carnation thought as perfectly viable use of her time, and that's because Edwin isn't merely errand boy but a person who can influence the competition greatly -- as proven by your ability as the player to determine with your actions who actually wins the rounds.

And second, it's not like you can't weaponize your sexuality on more than one person. And when Veronica is spending time with Edwin (no matter if voluntarily or not) she is in no position to seduce patrons, but she is in perfect position to get Edwin to like her and help her. Why would she opt out of gaining advantage, no matter how small, unless it's simply something that she can't bring herself to do?

the MC can make subtle moves only IF such an opportunity arises , he is in no position to make drastic actions that would help anyone directly.
we already saw that with kathy in week 2 where she takes in charge and punishes veroncia.
MC has no standing of his own within the club , he is an extension of kathy a shadow if you will , he has no power of his own.
i bet even ian has somewhat bigger leverage within the club than the MC because of his relationship with Dr Chuck.
MC can't do anything that would go against the wishes of kathy DURING the games , he could at best try to help the girls subtly with the very little power he has been given by kathy.

 

[ffive]

the MC can make subtle moves only IF such an opportunity arises , he is in no position to make drastic actions that would help anyone directly.

You quite literally determine outcome of the rounds by how you choose to conduct the interviews, and how you choose to behave during the exhibitions. The patrons and judges vote on what they find appealing, and it's the MC who ultimately makes things appealing for them (or not)

It doesn't matter if you classify those actions as subtle or overt, the outcomes are your doing. As such, claiming that Edwin is just errand boy of no importance and thus not worth seducing, it's simply false. You can make Carnation of choice win or can make her lose.

 

[Darreau91]

Considering Veronica is very much a lesbian i don't really see anything that wild about it. In fact, fwb may already be stretching it as it is.

Unless Edwin gets to transition with Sophia's drugs or smth, i guess.

*closeted bisexual* Edwin is slowly showing her the way to hetero snu snu and its glorious.

 

[labmouseblues]

Considering it's not only not a factor against, but even incentive for other two Carnations to seek sex with Edwin (especially Rose) why do you think it'd have opposite effect on Veronica?

Because they're different people, driven by different motivations and with different personal boundaries? Veronica is clearly willing to get fucked for a chance at saving her dream, but she isn't willing to get fucked for a chance at a maybe a possible advantage, because her dream is worth a lot, but not everything. Rose on the other will do anything for her child, and that includes eking out any extra edge she can get out of fucking the protagonist. Fel just likes to get fucked, preferably in the ass. Different folks, different strokes.

Do you believe her to be someone who wouldn't try to use sex as influence with someone they found physically appealing, to curry favors and/or advantage in the competition?

That's precisely how she's presented.

It doesn't matter if you classify those actions as subtle or overt, the outcomes are your doing.

The player's doing. It's a game, you're supposed to have agency. That doesn't necessarily mean the protagonist is actually responsible for the outcome of the competition, that's not how the narrative is constructed.