VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Takkatakka]

Can someone please tell me what the fuck 'Azura' from 'The Elder Scrolls' has to do with a brothel/sex club?

Spoiler: Behind the cage

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The whole club stands symbolicly for the way Bethesda is treating its players. Basically the carnations stand for gamers that buy Bethesda's games at launch only to get utterly fucked for 4 weeks until the worst bugs are fixed.

 

[Mark17]

The whole club stand symbolic for the way Bethesda is treating their players. Basically the carnations stand for gamers that buy Bethesda games at launch only to get utterly fucked for 4 weeks until the worst bugs are fixed.

Which reminder me, that I shouldn't buy Starfield until the end of November. (Or waiting until the Pirates doing their thing)

 

[bo77om]

Chuck is a really big TES fan.

confirmed - in Ch5 there might be sweet rolls reference, Nerevarine cameo and jokes about arrow in the knee

 

[ashwani2659]

Any mod installed or used in the past?

Yeah I have been using the walkthrough mod which was recommended.
I tried the new version with and without mod. Didn't make any difference. Saves don't work from that particular spot..

 

[Takkatakka]

Yeah I have been using the walkthrough mod which was recommended.
I tried the new version with and without mod. Didn't make any difference. Saves don't work from that particular spot..

Yeah, that's why I never use them.

I would actually recommend using the skip function. Outside of the...two or three "free roams" it allows you to get through the game very quickly while doing exactly your choices instead of using "a savegame" from someone who might have taken different choices.

 

[heybeterino]

Is there or is there not a pegging scene? because if so i cant seem to find it

 

[Bill Temple]

Is there or is there not a pegging scene? because if so i cant seem to find it

I'm pretty sure there's not, but I don't play all paths in PC. What makes you think there's a pegging scene?

 

[dolfe67]

There is a pegging scene, female on female though (Kathleen pegging Veronica)

 

[Bill Temple]

There is a pegging scene, female on female though (Kathleen pegging Veronica)

I suppose that technically counts. But is pegging a woman really pegging?

 

[dolfe67]

I suppose that technically counts. But is pegging a woman really pegging?

How do you call it?

 

[Bill Temple]

How do you call it?

"A woman getting fucked with a dildo".
Pegging is one of the sex words we have a clear and unambiguous definition for. About 20 years ago, Dan Savage (and his readers) intentionally selected "pegging" for the express purpose of describing a woman fucking a man in the ass with a strap-on dildo.

 

[se20299]

I'm looking forward to the Veronica update. She's certainly the least fleshed out of the carnations, and the dev has the opportunity to do something great with her. Both Rose and Felicia have already developed some sort of relationship with Edwin, while his relationship with Veronica still feels rather professional. It's gonna be interesting to see what makes her tick away from her gym and the Club.

I also hope we see more of Ian in the next update. I've really grown to like Ian, and I've become very sympathetic towards his character. I've been thinking about his dynamic with Edwin for a while now, and I've finally decided to comment on it, as their relationship has always bugged me, and I just realized why. I've noticed that Ian looks at Edwin like and older brother, and Edwin generally only tolerates him because of work at best, and treats him like a nuisance at worst. Ian's certainly been putting in the most effort in keeping their "friendship" alive.

Ian gets a lot of flak on here, but I feel like he's a much better person than Edwin. Ian feels like an actual human being, while Edwin feels a lot more cold and aloof, almost like a sociopath. If I had to put it into words, I'd say Ian is a good person surrounded by bad indluences (Chuck, Kat, his parents), while Edwin is a bad person surrounded by good influences (Vicky, Ian, Hana). To me, this dynamic serves to paint Ian as a misguided young man, led astray and neglected by the people he trusts, while Edwin appears "good" on the surface, but there's an unsettling darkness bubbling underneath. I also suspect he's a bit of an unreliable narrator, but we'll see just how fucked up he is as the story progresses.

 

[Takkatakka]

Ian gets a lot of flak on here, but I feel like he's a much better person than Edwin. Ian feels like an actual human being, while Edwin feels a lot more cold and aloof, almost like a sociopath. If I had to put it into words, I'd say Ian is a good person surrounded by bad indluences (Chuck, Kat, his parents), while Edwin is a bad person surrounded by good influences (Vicky, Ian, Hana).

I mean...Ian is cheating on his girlfriend with his former nanny (among a lot of others). Edwin did what exactly? Help her "cheat back", when the dig was already up? I mean overall it probably depends on the decisions you take, but I wouldn't agree to that assessment (at least not for the way I played my MC so far).

 

[alex13_zen]

Veronica has such a pretty face but it's wasted on that body for me. I wish she were a fitness model iso of a bodybuilder.
Anyway I'm mostly hoping for more Hana and Mina content. And coming clean with Ian.

 

[Deleted member 6118633]

I'm looking forward to the Veronica update. She's certainly the least fleshed out of the carnations, and the dev has the opportunity to do something great with her. Both Rose and Felicia have already developed some sort of relationship with Edwin, while his relationship with Veronica still feels rather professional. It's gonna be interesting to see what makes her tick away from her gym and the Club.

I also hope we see more of Ian in the next update. I've really grown to like Ian, and I've become very sympathetic towards his character. I've been thinking about his dynamic with Edwin for a while now, and I've finally decided to comment on it, as their relationship has always bugged me, and I just realized why. I've noticed that Ian looks at Edwin like and older brother, and Edwin generally only tolerates him because of work at best, and treats him like a nuisance at worst. Ian's certainly been putting in the most effort in keeping their "friendship" alive.

Ian gets a lot of flak on here, but I feel like he's a much better person than Edwin. Ian feels like an actual human being, while Edwin feels a lot more cold and aloof, almost like a sociopath. If I had to put it into words, I'd say Ian is a good person surrounded by bad indluences (Chuck, Kat, his parents), while Edwin is a bad person surrounded by good influences (Vicky, Ian, Hana). To me, this dynamic serves to paint Ian as a misguided young man, led astray and neglected by the people he trusts, while Edwin appears "good" on the surface, but there's an unsettling darkness bubbling underneath. I also suspect he's a bit of an unreliable narrator, but we'll see just how fucked up he is as the story progresses.

Edwin is straight up a sociopath/psychopath, I think that's pretty well established, he is someone who is obsessed with and gets a 'high' off having power over others, and he has a superficial attachment to other people and his primary concern with these attachments are not the people themselves, but how they reflect upon him, take for example his mother stating that she has no idea who August is, why would it really make that much of a difference to Edwin if it had been August or some other porn producer, it's because Edwin's actual concern is that he didn't want to suffer the loss of face due to the people he works for having pimped out his mom as a whore, and Edwin's mom is obviously lying btw.

I personally hoped for some route where Mina gets fucked by Edwin in front of Ian, and I think there's still a chance of that happening, Ian seemed to get turned on by Mina making out with Edwin during the drinking game early on in PC, and I think there's a possibility of Mina indulging in some rather dark parts of her psyche, torturing Ian by cucking him with Edwin is certainly something that would fit into her fuck list.

 

[akselx]

Edwin is straight up a sociopath/psychopath, I think that's pretty well established

Eh, I wouldn't say this. It's pretty obvious for a renowned armchair psychologist like myself that he has issues, some form of dissociation, but I wouldn't go as far as to call him a sociopath and definitely not a psychopath. He can clearly emotionally connect and empathise with others, so no.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Edwin is straight up a sociopath/psychopath, I think that's pretty well established, he is someone who is obsessed with and gets a 'high' off having power over others, and he has a superficial attachment to other people and his primary concern with these attachments are not the people themselves, but how they reflect upon him, take for example his mother stating that she has no idea who August is, why would it really make that much of a difference to Edwin if it had been August or some other porn producer, it's because Edwin's actual concern is that he didn't want to suffer the loss of face due to the people he works for having pimped out his mom as a whore, and Edwin's mom is obviously lying btw.

I personally hoped for some route where Mina gets fucked by Edwin in front of Ian, and I think there's still a chance of that happening, Ian seemed to get turned on by Mina making out with Edwin during the drinking game early on in PC, and I think there's a possibility of Mina indulging in some rather dark parts of her psyche, torturing Ian by cucking him with Edwin is certainly something that would fit into her fuck list.

Disagree.
Edwin has sadistic tendencies which he seems to have somewhat channelled through his sexual preferences as he grew older but that is a far cry from being a sociopath. He does not lack empathy, having show instead time and again that he loves his mother. And his hability to put himself on the shoes of the carnations (and others), to try to understand a bit what they are having to endure.

if you want a exemple of a sociopath in Pale Carnations you can simply look at Chuck or Kathleen. They fit the profile a lot more than Edwin.

 

[Deleted member 6118633]

Eh, I wouldn't say this. It's pretty obvious for a renowned armchair psychologist like myself that he has issues, some form of dissociation, but I wouldn't go as far as to call him a sociopath and definitely not a psychopath. He can clearly emotionally connect and empathise with others, so no.

I could swear that there's some dialogue in the game about him not actually feeling connected with other people, and that he's just going through the motions of doing what he believes is expected of him, and with that in mind it's really just him trying to act normal.

But even if I'm misremembering, he's someone who has an unusual capacity for compartmentalization, even Ian says that Edwin can switch his emotions off, and then jokingly refers to Edwin as a "robot". Such behavioral characteristics are associated with sociopathy, so the question is really just how far into the spectrum he is.

 

[akselx]

I could swear that there's some dialogue in the game about him not actually feeling connected with other people, and that he's just going through the motions of doing what he believes is expected of him, and with that in mind it's really just him trying to act normal.

But even if I'm misremembering, he's someone who has an unusual capacity for compartmentalization, even Ian says that Edwin can switch his emotions off, and then jokingly refers to Edwin as a "robot". Such behavioral characteristics are associated with sociopathy, so the question is really just how far into the spectrum he is.

I don't remember any of that, but it's been awhile. Thing is "sociopath" comes with a lot of normative baggage, so it's better to say that he's on the spectrum of it.

 

[Deleted member 6118633]

Disagree.
Edwin has sadistic tendencies which he seems to have somewhat channelled through his sexual preferences as he grew older but that is a far cry from being a sociopath. He does not lack empathy, having show instead time and again that he loves his mother. And his hability to put himself on the shoes of the carnations (and others), to try to understand a bit what they are having to endure.

if you want a exemple of a sociopath in Pale Carnations you can simply look at Chuck or Kathleen. They fit the profile a lot more than Edwin.

Empathy is not really a trait which is excluded from sociopaths or even psychopaths, what is really of concern with the ability of a person to empathize is how high or low functioning they are, classic psychopathic habitual criminals are universally low IQ, however people who nonetheless are psychopaths yet are very high functioning is a common trait for corporate executives, and yes there have been studies done on this. It's not that they can't understand other people's motivations and emotional states, it's that they aren't affected by that in the same manner as normal people, they're cold to it.

In the case of Edwin, is he someone who is overly distraught by the things affecting the carnations and others, or is he someone who understands their suffering on an intellectual level? I think the game makes it rather clear that he's not deeply affected by any of the things he sees, he has an almost universally shallow affect, something also associated with sociopathic and psychopathic behavior, one notable exception is his reaction to his mother lying to him about who she did porn with, and in that case I would yet again ask the question, why does he care so much about who used to pay his mother to get fucked on video? It's because he feels personally denigrated by it.

Psychopaths having a fixation with their own mothers is also something that is actually well established, they can actually have rather obsequious attitudes towards their maternal figures, and Edwin is someone who obsessively watches videos of his mom getting reamed out by groups of guys for money, while he's talking to himself in his internal monologue about how he's going to do everything in his power to make sure she never has to be humiliated again.