VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

4.80 star(s) 535 Votes
Discussion Reviews (535)
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captcha69

Member
Apr 12, 2021
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448
cheating is losing control, Ian is a good friend, but is not a good example of anything, the only thing i could feel for him is pitty, the men is a mess, there is no a one side open relationships, that is just a fancy way to say cheating xD, and u can argue than men have a worse time staying loyal than women, and from a biological point of view u are right, but that is the same reason men value loyalty more than anything, but u are missing the point, if u stay loyal that is something worth praising but if u cheat, u are still a piece of shit, doesnt matter if u are a men or a women, cheating is cheating. This is not about Mina either, she does cheat, and have his part of the blame too, but this is in no way the same circunstances, she is a "we are done" step away from ending her relationship, by the time she cheat the only thing that make her "Ian´s girlfriend" is the fact that they still didnt have a face to face conversation where she dumb his ass, also Mina is the only one trying during that relationship, we still dont know why dou, but she was trying, the other piece of shit without a real excuse in that mess is MC, cause that is ur best friend girlfriend, and that should be off limits, doesnt matter how hot she is, cause once again, loyalty, a men should not let his dick do the thinking. Mind u, im only saying this cause of u trying to put Ian in a pedestal while excusing all men on earth from ever cheating, i do not follow this "credo" "men should not let his emotion blah blah" that is hard to do, and im a lazy bastard with poor discipline.
 
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Suntar

Member
Jul 29, 2018
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hellohello95zone said:
Ok, since it's dead here during these weeks and a friend was curious: my tier list. :FacePalm:

I did it a bit different than usual. I made one for 'how much fun I had because of a certain character' and since the game touches the question of ethics a lot, and I find it one of the more interesting topics, I made a second one regarding 'how I see the behaviour of certain characters'.


Tier-list 1: 'fun'


View attachment 2345642


Reasoning:


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---


Ok, and on to the 'how I see the behaviour of certain characters' list:


I personally hold it like this:
I judge behaviour without whitewashing and will also voice it if it's anonymous. That doesn't change how I treat a person though. I wish even Hitler very well and would treat him as kindly as I can.

In my tier-list I assume, that the story plays in a country where lack of money leads nobody to die from hunger or cold, but that there is at least a minimal welfare.

If I remember something incorrectly, please let me know.


Tier-list 2: 'ethics'


View attachment 2345663


Reasoning:


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All considered, I think I should have included rank S2-S10 to encompass actual good peoples behaviour.


Thanks for reading :)


---


TLDR: People bad, but that makes for a good fap. Compliments to the chefs!
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Holy shit my dude, you have some really skewed perceptions of ethics/morals.

Mina in D-Tier is hilarious, especially with Ian in B-tier (also, he behaves very comparably to Felicia, who you put in F-Tier). Mina cheated on Ian once or twice and breaks up with him in the same conversation she admits it. On top of that, Ian was pushing her to break up/cheat on him during their entire relationship, by constantly flirting in front of her, and cheating on basically every opportunity, on top of his secret club life. Ian also, dependin on the route you take, has multiple sexaul encounters with Felicia, Mina's currently best friend. So even by your own standards, he's as bad as Mina.

I've not really gotten any particularly feminist vibes from Hana, and she acts very cordial and friendly with any man that isn't part of the club or it's customers (her band-mate, the decent security guard, and the MC) *who are all in the business of using, abusing and/or profiting off of women who are often forced or at least pressured into working at the club.* Now she is doing the same in a way, by proxy of her father paying her, but all signs point to her either getting out at the first sign possible or working to change how the club operates on a pretty fundamental level.
Putting on of the clubs members, who endorses by being a member and watching the competition everything Kat is doing to the carnations, above Hana in ethics is...an interesting take.


It's very interesting that when a character *could potentially* be emotionally harming a man through their actions (Victoria, Mina, Felicia) they land on the low end of your ethics scale.
However, characters that *actually have* physically or emotionally harmed women (Ian, Senator, Opera guy through monetary support) they end up pretty high on your list.
 
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Suntar

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Jul 29, 2018
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hellohello95zone said:
Thanks guys for the input. I'm sure I didn't get it 100% right and probably also forgot some stuff since it's quite a while that I played through.

But I don't think we will get on the same page. Our view of men and women and possibly also our experience in that regard are just too different. I had these discussions a few times already here on F95 and I'm still interested in discussing some details and such but usually those discussions end in a ugly way if the initial outlook is that different.

So feel free to take what you find useful from my post and disregard the rest.

Wish you the best.
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Yeah, I've probably come across more hostile than I intended. I apologize for that. I think the discussion about how ethically/morally characters in this game act is extremely interesting, since it is one of the core struggles our MC is going through.
Obviously different people have a different outlook on morality, I'm not gonna pretend I'm the paragon of objective morality. I just found your perspective to be very slanted towards the male characters, giving them at times way more leeway than female characters for similiar actions.

I'd be interested in reading more of your perspective on the men vs women issue, since you seem to have different standards especially when cheating is concerned. Send me a pm if you prefer to do it privately, without cluttering this monster of a thread even more.
 
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captcha69

Member
Apr 12, 2021
178
448
honeryx said:
It's your opinion so for the most part there is no right or wrong, it's your preference. But you do shit all over women in your post. It's a porn forum so it's whatever, not like it's talking in real life, and yeah I can get how it would get ugly since most people really aren't interested in dealing with misogyny online. Just don't be one of those dudes that doesn't own up to what it is. Nothing worse than someone that puts out their opinion and then gaslights about it, again this is fictional and it's whatever, obviously if this game happened irl a lot of people would be going to jail and it would be considered horrific.
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i mean... extorsion, prostitution, human trafficking...the most fictional thing u can find in this game is the MC being a medical student with a huge dick...
 
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Carl0sDanger

Active Member
May 22, 2020
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As someone who is all about taking Mina for the ride of her life ...

Ian does not care about Mina. On a very real level, he isn't even interested in Mina. He is actually into mature women, but is having trouble admitting it due to the source of this preference (ie. Mommy issues*). It's actually a very real thing for someone to chase things they think they should want instead of things they really want: heaps of people do it IRL.

Ian thinks he should want to be some kind of playboy photographer, but he actually wants security and safety. He can't just dump Mina to fuck his mother-substitute - the guy he's pretending to be would never do that - but he can try to get Mina to dump him. Which is clearly what he's trying to do. If anything he seems astonished how much shit she's willing to put up with.

Therefore, it is not a violation of the bro code to get Mina to break up with Ian since it's what he actually wants. If he were actually in love or something, totally different story. But this is a girl Ian is actively trying to drive away. You're doing the guy a solid.




*Possibly exacerbated by Kat pegging the shit out of him after dosing him with the aphrodisiac. That woman did something.
 
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BrockLanders

BrockLanders

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Aug 8, 2020
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Carl0sDanger said:
As someone who is all about taking Mina for the ride of her life ...

Ian does not care about Mina. On a very real level, he isn't even interested in Mina. He is actually into mature women, but is having trouble admitting it due to the source of this preference (ie. Mommy issues*). It's actually a very real thing for someone to chase things they think they should want instead of things they really want: heaps of people do it IRL.

Ian thinks he should want to be some kind of playboy photographer, but he actually wants security and safety. He can't just dump Mina to fuck his mother-substitute - the guy he's pretending to be would never do that - but he can try to get Mina to dump him. Which is clearly what he's trying to do. If anything he seems astonished how much shit she's willing to put up with.

Therefore, it is not a violation of the bro code to get Mina to break up with Ian since it's what he actually wants. If he were actually in love or something, totally different story. But this is a girl Ian is actively trying to drive away. You're doing the guy a solid.




*Possibly exacerbated by Kat pegging the shit out of him after dosing him with the aphrodisiac. That woman did something.
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This isn't some coping rationalization. I completely agree. Mina just needed that push, and I think the only real pushback Edwin will get is because Ian's pride will have been hurt. He'll possibly use anything Edwin does with Mina as a convenient prelude to a favor or to assert some power at the club over him in the future... but otherwise, I don't think he should care.

Just don't let him find out about the list, and he won't try to play take-backsies lol
 
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ename144

ename144

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Sep 20, 2018
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Good news and bad news everyone! The good news is that we got a new dev diary today. The bad news is that TD is clearly trying to horn in on my analysis by doing some of the math for us. :p
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Well, as TD noted, they've added 270 statics, 23 animations and 11735 words in three weeks since the last diary. That's an average of roughly 90 statics, 7.7 animations and 3912 words per week. Overall, they are currently averaging ~96 statics, 2.7 animations and 2284 words per week since work on Chapter 4 Update 2 began. Here are the charts:
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As you can see, we've made major progress in the animation front, but only a moderate increase in the rate for statics (with words being somewhere in the middle). This suggests the punishment games are fairly animation heavy; not too surprising, but still a bit interesting. The big question now is how big the overall update will be. It sounds like we're mostly done with the Club stuff, so the bulk of the remaining work will be Mina's event. That's probably going to be a little more static heavy, though I'd be very surprised if there weren't a bunch of animations as well.

Statics seem to be the gating item at the moment, but that could probably change if animations are finished and GIL can throw all his time into statics. Beyond that it's still too early to say much with certainty. I'd say we're probably still looking at the same March-April timeframe we guesstimated last time, but the rosy projection is a little more likely if it turns out the static count will fall under our initial projections. For now we just have to be patient, even if we are all curious to see where things go with Mina.
 
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Besharia

Besharia

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May 6, 2018
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So are the girls I'm bonding with sleeping with other dudes or am I misunderstanding the synopsis. I'm not complaining just trying to see if it has ntr so I can move on if it does.
 
UnoriginalUserName

UnoriginalUserName

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Sep 3, 2017
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Besharia said:
So are the girls I'm bonding with sleeping with other dudes or am I misunderstanding the synopsis. I'm not complaining just trying to see if it has ntr so I can move on if it does.
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Well, Hana for sure isn't. Mina was sleeping with Ian (*shudders*), Felicia's married to a rich douchebag (and you can tag-team her with Ian (*shudders again*)), Firecrotch McMuscles is probably married to her gym and muff diving whenever possible, and...I can't remember the other one to be honest, but she's a single mother raising a kid or something if I'm not mistaken and her character didn't give me the "I have time for dating" vibe from what I can remember, so it's probably been a while for her.

I would like to point out that all the girls you encounter with the exception of MC's mom, Hana, and Mina are all literal whores, or trying to become literal whores so...yeah, not sure how you feel about that.
 
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subtitle

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Nov 14, 2020
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UnoriginalUserName said:
I would like to point out that all the girls you encounter with the exception of MC's mom, Hana, and Mina are all literal whores, or trying to become literal whores so...yeah, not sure how you feel about that.
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Not sure if you remember, but MC's mum literally got gangbanged on camera for money, she is the biggest whore of them all
 
UnoriginalUserName

UnoriginalUserName

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subtitle said:
Not sure if you remember, but MC's mum literally got gangbanged on camera for money, she is the biggest whore of them all
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Oh I do, but she isn't doing that anymore and is most definitely off the table as far as love interests go, so she wouldn't be an NTR consideration which is his concern.
 
TD1900

TD1900

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Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
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Besharia said:
So are the girls I'm bonding with sleeping with other dudes or am I misunderstanding the synopsis. I'm not complaining just trying to see if it has ntr so I can move on if it does.
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Disgusting and mean things will happen to three out of five of the heroines, sometimes at the hands of the other brothel's customers. If you are adverse to characters you might potentially care about getting exploited and mistreated (including by the main character), this doesn't sound like the game for you.

...or it might be. It's free and you can always try it, with the only expense being your time. I'm told by other people who normally don't enjoy these kind of themes that they surprisingly enjoy it.
 
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4.80 star(s) 535 Votes