VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Machete]

Stick is the only way to drive. Everything else is sitting on a crib.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Stick is the only way to drive. Everything else is sitting on a crib.

Hey now, the vast majority of motorcycles use a sequential shifter operated with your foot.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

Heh my driver's test was in our 2000 passat. I'm a guy, but many of my female friends could drive stick........giggidy.

No doubt about that!

Spoiler

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[JasonsGranpa]

Stick is the only way to drive. Everything else is sitting on a crib.

Whoever drives a manual while living in a city trains legs and is therefor gay.

 

[Machete]

Whoever drives a manual while living in a city trains legs and is therefor gay.

But an active one. Automatic gear is waaaay passive.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

But an active one. Automatic gear is waaaay passive.

Lez-dom with Felicia confirmed.

 

[ename144]

Hi!
Yes, I think you misinterpret my text, since you do not write about the points I want to make. It might be that we have some translation loss in the meaning of the argumention chains and language stuff in general here. So a try at a very basic compressed translation:
a) While True_degenerate illustrated the situation at the time the game, it cannot be the situation "from the get go". Ian and Mina´s relationship was roughly a year old when they are at the birthday paty. Had Ian started out like he behaved at the end, the two would never have come together, no matter that Ian hyperboles during the talk with Edwin! It does not function like that. He would never have gotten Mina on the hook had he started it like he did in the end!
And that Ian can be charming if he wants to is shown in several scenes, not just with Mina, but e.g. Vicki. And there is a another hint of it in the party scenes. When they are forced to say something nice about each other. It is clear Ian could be different if not Chuck would influence him strongly.

Of course Ian was treating her badly from the get go: he was already working for the Club when he met Mina. You do the math.

We all know Ian *could* have treated Mina better. The problem is that from all available evidence, he very rarely did. Ian does have his moments, but they are very clearly few and far between. It's only Mina bending over backwards to ignore Ian's failings kept their relationship going as long as it did.

Also, I must point out that we're shown specifically that Ian failed to say something nice about Mina at the party scene.

b) This is something of a headscratcher for me, why some Mina fans try to read something from my posts I never said nor intended! I always said that Ian is by far the main culprit why the relationship with Mina crashed, no debate here, it was practically selfsabotage. It is just that there are scenes with hints that Mina is not completely blameless it came to that.

What hints? I see no evidence whatsoever that Mina did anything blameworthy. Ian isn't entitled to play out any of her depraved fantasies, especially when he's rubbing her nose in his philandering. If Ian is frustrated by her lack of participation in an active sex life he always has the option to end the relationship himself. Instead he cheated on her constantly, then rubbed her nose in it in the hopes she'd try harder in bed.

Whatever Mina's flaws, she bears none of the blame for what Ian did.

c) I do not imply Mina´s innocnece is a complete act like you insinuate, her personality is mainly like this at that point in game. But Mina is not quite as innocent as you believe! She is steering her innocence depending on the situation how thick or thin she lays it on. She clearly overdid it at Edwin´s birthday party, even with Ian present! It was completely unnecessary to e.g. give Hana the glare she gave her when she explained a kink which was not as"bad" as the ones she wants to try. No one present would have "hmmed" if Mina just listened to it.

But my point is that Mina's 'innocence' isn't an act at all! It's a choice about how she presents herself.

The question of what it means to be genuinely "good" is one of - if not THE - key themes of Pale Carnations. I don't understand how you can dismiss Mina's struggle with that question so blithely.

At first I thought this was just pseudointellectual drivel - and probably wasn't the only one. But this is a surprisingly thoughtful take if you read it carefully - and I'd agree with much of it. The fact that a porn game would inspire such high-brow analysis should be a complement to the creators, not a detraction.


I've done enough arguing and criticism in the prior thread decades I thought it'd be nice to rehash my favorite and what I consider the best scene in the entire game from a technical standpoint - I wonder what some other people's favorite scenes are?

Spoiler: Best Scene in Pale Carnations :oops:

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I agree entirely, but don't forget about the music! The techno theme is a perfect fit for the urban environment, and the slow build up nicely mirrors the increasing importance of the MC to Felicia.

 

[Turret]

Of course Ian was treating her badly from the get go: he was already working for the Club when he met Mina. You do the math.

That is one of the points I contest thoroughly, especially since I know girls (and some boys) coming from a "Nuns bunker" school. Among the schools in our city, there is one of them.
This might sound cliched, but that is an observation made over decades, most girls coming from such a school fall into two types. Those who really follow the instructions gained there quite straight (with some modifications possible) and those girls who then cut loose and wild.
Mina is one of those who DID NOT go wild as we can see with her general behaviour and her bucket list. So far so good. But no matter how unworldly Mina was raised/schooled, the Ian of the "game time" would never have landed with Mina at all!
Had Ian behaved as he did during the weeks of the game from the start, he would never have gotten together with her, that is absolutely sure.
And this is even hinted at during some talks with Edwin, where Ian mentions that he could not stop himself from going further and further once he started it. The Ian of "game time" would have repulsed Mina from the get go, their relationship would never have lifted off.

But my point is that Mina's 'innocence' isn't an act at all! It's a choice about how she presents herself.
The question of what it means to be genuinely "good" is one of - if not THE - key themes of Pale Carnations. I don't understand how you can dismiss Mina's struggle with that question so blithely.

Here we have an absolute crash in understanding the other discutant again, rather clearly due to English use. One question: Are you a native English speaker? I am not and going how you understood my post I think you are not one as well.
The "insinuate" in my earlier post I meant to state with that you seem to think I consider Mina´s innocence to be a complete act, which is not the case on my side! I think Mina in part uses her innocence depending on the situation. Sometimes more blatant and sometimes very taken back.

What hints? I see no evidence whatsoever that Mina did anything blameworthy. Ian isn't entitled to play out any of her depraved fantasies, especially when he's rubbing her nose in his philandering. If Ian is frustrated by her lack of participation in an active sex life he always has the option to end the relationship himself. Instead he cheated on her constantly, then rubbed her nose in it in the hopes she'd try harder in bed.
Whatever Mina's flaws, she bears none of the blame for what Ian did.

Same problem as above, the last sentence alone shows that we two talk around or at least understand around each other here.The last sentence of yours quoted above, I said the same differently worded several times myself! Ian´s selfsabotage is the main reason the relationship broke, that is on him alone and never questioned at all!
But there is a flaw of Mina which contributed to the behaviour Ian started to show, it was not the reason for it, but it did not help the situation at all.
I would try to explain better and longer, but here where I live it is already night and I have to work. So I have to cut it short and good Night to all!

 

[BrockLanders]

I finally got to the current content after slowly replaying blindly (Hana focused fuck buddy run, Mina cheating, Felicia art date, Rose deal, Katherine at arm's length but satiated) and I just got to the Velvet Room and I know absolutely fucking nothing about this update other than being forced to choose between the twintails most likely and I am brimming with anticipation...

I want to fuck Lundgren's brain. The story beats of that conversation, like, this shit needs to be filmed. Can someone teach pornstars to act well, please? Or, go back in time and let French-arthouse-/r/extramile-Caligula-level-debauchery be a defacto standard mainstream phase at some point in Hollywood so this could get a decent A24 release or something? I love the layered narration and dialogue rhythm!

 

[Turret]

I want to fuck Lundgren's brain.

Really just the brain? Boring! She brings more to the table than just her genius-level brain.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

Let's leave aside abandoning her and chatting up other girls at the club. Just tell her they're checking you out and see what happens. Attractive people get attention anyway but that's not even close to competition. I can maybe see it working for a casual fling without much/any history, or sugar ho type of arrangement. Swinging/poly too but that's both ways. There's a reason these ideas coincide with fucked relationships. Also goes to my point about Ian/Mina incongruously acting like a middle-aged couple grinding through a failed marriage for the the sake of kids and/or insurance.

So you meant it more Ian specific.
Yeah, he does it in a real negative way in the club.

But the healthy competition thing applies to all forms of sexual relationships. Nothing has been more damaging for men and their relationships with women than this idea, that men should always assure a woman 10 times per day that she is the absolutely only female existing for them. Women are not fragile 5yo girls and they will despise and laugh at a man who treats them like that - and they get bored to death from it. Having to show their best behaviour to keep a man reassures them that they picked the right one and it makes them feel alive and feminine. Applies to long term relationships just the same.

(been told by a friend)

 

[Ennoch]

So this Warren guy. A gentle giant. A calm force of tender fatherly care. I like him.

 

[Tabberius]

no compressed yet?

 

[Elduriel]

no compressed yet?

https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-carnations-ch-4-update-2-public-mutt-jeff.50281/post-10466831

 

[Turret]

So this Warren guy. A gentle giant. A calm force of tender fatherly care. I like him.

If this is not sarcasm in action we see here, then it is a refreshing and unique new view of Warren we have not seen in this thread before! Would you please tell us how you arrive at these viewpoint?

 

[From95]

Is it possible to get a Gofile link aswell, since the file is to big for free mega link. Couse the games looks interresting

 

[Ennoch]

If this is not sarcasm in action we see here, then it is a refreshing and unique new view of Warren we have not seen in this thread before! Would you please tell us how you arrive at these viewpoint?

In the scene where he lectures Hana after catching us with the two idiots, having an indoor beach party, the guy gives Hana a lecture in such fatherly manner you never see actual dads lecture their kids in other visual novel. They either go full on asshole or just way too forgiving. Warren the meantime just has this bent forward finger waving posture with a grumpy look that isn't even menacing, he casually achieves not to be physically threatening in that moment even though it would be easy. Not once does he show signs that he is about to hit Hana and doesn't give as much as a slap to the mc even though he did a stupid thing. The scene isn't tense because Warren handles the entire situation without creating unease.

This is a recurring theme with Warren. He never uses violence or even the threat of violence to settle arguments, he is never overcome with rage, he is a perfectly reasonable guy. He knows exactly what are the boundaries and if he cannot lay a finger on Hana? He doesn't try to weasel his way around this. If he can't he can't and he is cool with it. He is by far the classiest of immoral mercenary in visual novels where usually the bad guys are just bullies with a temper who need constant supervision not to break things. If he would be given free reign he would just break the girl sure but he isn't nurturing a desire to do it. He just said that if he could he would, sure he'd love to, but as long as the boss won't allow it this won't happen, end of story and you never see him teasing Hana. This is rare.

He doesn't flaunts his muscles he doesn't tell tales of combat prowess, he isn't a braggart, he never felt threatening in an argument, he doesn't try to win one so desperately like immature idiots and bully types do. With his argument with.. Dariah? Can't remember the name. He doesn't answer to her and yet didn't just sent her to fuck off, he listened to her argument, didn't try to intimidate her at all, he gave her words a real thought.

The guy is the best you can possible get for this role. You want an enforcer who is ruthless, without conscience? Your ideal one is in full control of his base desires, polite, well mannered if he has to be, handles situations with care and isn't threatening unless he has to be. He doesn't try to be in the center of things, does not seek attention and minds his actions and words, always use only as much force as needed and otherwise a likeable buddy if you bother to chat with him.

The thing is, he acts like a fine example of an ideal maffia enforcer. Always very respectful and fully loyal to the hireups, good with peers, strives to a good working relationship the very least. But doesn't give a fuck about those below him. This is why he doesn't care about girls he fucks. They are the bottom of the foodchain and hierarchy is very important for these types. They actually are quite deliberately mean to those below them.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

In the scene where he lectures Hana after catching us with the two idiots, having an indoor beach party, the guy gives Hana a lecture in such fatherly manner you never see actual dads lecture their kids in other visual novel. They either go full on asshole or just way too forgiving. Warren the meantime just has this bent forward finger waving posture with a grumpy look that isn't even menacing, he casually achieves not to be physically threatening in that moment even though it would be easy. Not once does he show signs that he is about to hit Hana and doesn't give as much as a slap to the mc even though he did a stupid thing. The scene isn't tense because Warren handles the entire situation without creating unease.

This is a recurring theme with Warren. He never uses violence or even the threat of violence to settle arguments, he is never overcome with rage, he is a perfectly reasonable guy. He knows exactly what are the boundaries and if he cannot lay a finger on Hana? He doesn't try to weasel his way around this. If he can't he can't and he is cool with it. He is by far the classiest of immoral mercenary in visual novels where usually the bad guys are just bullies with a temper who need constant supervision not to break things. If he would be given free reign he would just break the girl sure but he isn't nurturing a desire to do it. He just said that if he could he would, sure he'd love to, but as long as the boss won't allow it this won't happen, end of story and you never see him teasing Hana. This is rare.

He doesn't flaunts his muscles he doesn't tell tales of combat prowess, he isn't a braggart, he never felt threatening in an argument, he doesn't try to win one so desperately like immature idiots and bully types do. With his argument with.. Dariah? Can't remember the name. He doesn't answer to her and yet didn't just sent her to fuck off, he listened to her argument, didn't try to intimidate her at all, he gave her words a real thought.

The guy is the best you can possible get for this role. You want an enforcer who is ruthless, without conscience? Your ideal one is in full control of his base desires, polite, well mannered if he has to be, handles situations with care and isn't threatening unless he has to be. He doesn't try to be in the center of things, does not seek attention and minds his actions and words, always use only as much force as needed and otherwise a likeable buddy if you bother to chat with him.

The thing is, he acts like a fine example of an ideal maffia enforcer. Always very respectful and fully loyal to the hireups, good with peers, strives to a good working relationship the very least. But doesn't give a fuck about those below him. This is why he doesn't care about girls he fucks. They are the bottom of the foodchain and hierarchy is very important for these types. They actually are quite deliberately mean to those below them.

Not to mention he gives Edwin a lecture on how not to whiteknight for Hana.

But found him a bit threatening when Edwin once stumbles unannounced into the video screens room.

---

Btw have to apologize to the devs for saying to lose all interest in the Mina path because of the apparent nice guy fan service. That was to early in development and it was too harsh. Apologies. I do hate it though.

 

[Ennoch]

I do hate it though.

I cannot forgive her hairstyle

 

[TD1900]

I cannot forgive her hairstyle

The more tails you have, the higher you are in the hairarchy.